/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.3326970]

Let's have one of these.

[Anonymous No.3326983]

That is horribly unclever.

And I am so in love with Sasha Grey.

[Anonymous No.3326999]

>>3326983
>And I am so in love with Sasha Grey.

Have some self-respect, man.

[Anonymous No.3327000]

>>3326970
I don't get it, you studied philosphy, expected to get comics but then you got porn?

[Anonymous No.3327003]

I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.3327005]

>>3326999

She's a beautiful, empowered sex worker with a kink for the intellect. What's not to love?

[Anonymous No.3327009]

>>3327005
She's literally a prostitute?

Pure looks-wise, Sasha is hotter than anyone I've ever been with, but I still wouldn't touch her with a barge pole. I'd probably gag at the sight of her. Also, that girl has got to be harbouring some serious issues.

[Anonymous No.3327014]

>>3327009

>literally a prostitute

Why is this a bad thing?

>serious issues

That's purely speculative. Many people with sexual interests outside the norm are perfectly fine mentally, if not better off than your average prude.

[Anonymous No.3327024]

[Anonymous No.3327025]

>>3327000
>>3327003
she studies philosophy because it is so kewl but she gets sucked into the lifestyle of an empowered female

[Anonymous No.3327027]

>>3327014
>>3327005
>>3326983

[Anonymous No.3327038]

>>3327025
Sasha grey never studied philosophy, she went straight from highschool to porn

[Anonymous No.3327044]

>>3327014
It's a bad thing because nobody should add "literally" to that sentence.
>>3327027
If that gets her off, who are we to judge?

[Anonymous No.3327051]

>>3327009
You probably have less change to catch something of a pornstar or a prostitute than any other woman with a sex life. I never got this "eeeww lots of partners she's so icky" thing. It's like not wanting to shake hands with a doctor.

[Anonymous No.3327059]

>>3327051
You could see it that way, but than again, it would make you a retard.

[Anonymous No.3327060]

>>3327027

You're trying to make a point with this image while missing the fact that her own point is readily being made by your disgust.

Women don't have to fit into your little sheltered outlook of chastity and virtue and propriety to be admirable and empowered - you're restricting female agency with your bullshit traditionalist notions of what is proper for a woman to do with her time and for her money.

Feel free to make an argument without resorting to captioned images, though.

[Anonymous No.3327061]

I wish people would stop talking about this bimbo

[Anonymous No.3327063]

>>3327059
Explain.

[Anonymous No.3327069]

>>>/tv/

[Anonymous No.3327080]

>>3327061

She's one of the most successful porn actresses of all time. Pornography is universal. Get used to it.

[Anonymous No.3327085]

>>3327059
>mfw people find a perfectly healthy and clean woman dirty because she has more genitals in the past than most people
>mfw the same people are afraid of restaurant cutlery because so many people have used it
>mfw they know better but they can't help having their silly ideas
>mfw ultimate form of spook slavery

[Anonymous No.3327088]

>>3327082

>mfw your analogy is fucking retarded because cutlery doesn't choose to get dirty and degrade itself for money

[Anonymous No.3327091]

>>3327060
LOL I'm sorry. I understand your point, but I don't think you're properly appreciating the image.

Seriously how can you make an intelligent argument in face of THAT?

[Anonymous No.3327092]

Why do any of you give a shit about her?

[Anonymous No.3327093]

>>3327088
>mfw people like you would demonize plumbers

[Anonymous No.3327095]

>>3327088

Your idea of 'degradation' is arbitrary.

There's nothing degrading about taking charge of your sexual agency.

[Anonymous No.3327104]

>>3327091
>I know taste is subjective and arbitrary, but seriously, how can you like BROCCOLI???

[Anonymous No.3327109]

>>3327091

You're clearly missing the point.

>Just look at the image! Just look at it!

I can see it. I see a woman actively taking charge of her sexuality while tearing apart social mores. It's countercultural. It's sexy. It's emancipating. Taking part in submissive fantasies (which are common to both sexes) is far from degrading. Restricting sexual agency due to some outdated notion of social propriety is far more damaging to women at large.

Try to respond to the arguments, if you're able.

[Anonymous No.3327120]

>>3327109
i think you're mostly right but you're also overstating the importance of women in porn.
i'll give you countercultural and emancipating, but it's certainly not sexy to me.
while it's true that women (and men as well, can't forget them) "have a right" to exercise their sexual agency in porno, it's still not a particularly good or useful job.

[Anonymous No.3327139]

>>3327120
>it's still not a particularly good or useful job.
It gives people pleasure. Aside from providing in their basic needs, that's pretty much all you can do for them in one way or another.

[Anonymous No.3327140]

>>3327120

If anything, I'm underestimating the importance of what someone like Sasha Grey represents in a world where women still go around in burqas.

If your argument is against pornography as good or useful, I'd begin by questioning your rubric for determining value and utility.

I'm of the opinion that pornography plays an immense role with regard to its universality in modern culture. I think it's a damn good thing not only for my own pleasure but for the eradication of moral institutions that can often be quite oppressive, and therein lies its utility as not only a cultural tool but as a means as well of getting my dick hard.

[Anonymous No.3327146]

>>3327140
If you object to women wearing the burqa I can assure you that there are better ways to do so than endorsing porno. Unfortunately, all of those ways are religious discrimination.
>>3327139
Uh no lol

[Anonymous No.3327176]

>>3327146

>there are better ways to do so than endorsing porno.

Such as? In what way is pornography a 'bad' way for women to utilize their sexual agency?

It sounds to me like you're holding onto traditionalist notions of gender roles with a claim like that.

[Anonymous No.3327184]

>>3327146
I think you mean yes. Everything people do that isn't done to limit suffering is to increase pleasure. They're not very good at it of course, but they sure are trying.

[Anonymous No.3327274]

>>3327051
>implying I didn't catch gonorrhoea the first time I shagged a prostitute

[Anonymous No.3327281]

>>3327095
Being a prostitute isn't "taking charge of your sexual slavery". More often than not it's literally enslavement.

Even if a whore is physically clean, she is still psychologically and spiritually despoiled.

[Anonymous No.3327286]

>>3327281
> "taking charge of your sexual slavery"

sexual agency*

[Anonymous No.3327290]

>>3327281
>Even if a whore is physically clean, she is still psychologically and spiritually despoiled.

Hahahaha.

Christ, Imagine if she wasn't self-employed and doing what she wanted, and took up a position selling McGreasyshit at the drive through window. Imagine How psychologically and spiritually despoiled she would be then.

[Anonymous No.3327292]

The porn business is about as misogynistic an industry there is. You third-wavers truly are retarded.

[Anonymous No.3327305]

>>3327281

>More often than not it's literally enslavement.

In third world countries and in sex-slavery rings in the united states, sure.

>psychologically and spiritually despoiled.

Go on and demonstrate what a spiritually 'pure' person would look like.

There certainly isn't any room for you to say that a sex worker is necessarily psychologically damaged. Quit spewing from your ass, cowboy.

[Anonymous No.3327310]

>>3327305
Have you ever actually met any sex workers? I have (and not just as a customer lel). They are some of the saddest people I've ever encountered.

[Anonymous No.3327311]

>>3327292

What would you suggest?

Lock up those vaginas with a chastity belt and say 'no, sister! that's too dirty a job for you!' ?

[Anonymous No.3327316]

>>3327310

Your personal anecdotes don't interest me in the context of this conversation. There are any number of sex workers who make a fuckload of cash and are quite happy doing what they do. That's no argument.

[Anonymous No.3327317]

>>3327311
How about encourage them to only have sex with people they actually feel an emotional connection with? Being a professional meat puppet is not empowering or fulfilling. They get into these jobs because of poverty and traumatic childhoods. They're being exploited. Just because they can technically quit any time they want, that's not how it actually works in praxis.

[Anonymous No.3327322]

>>3327317

>Being a professional meat puppet is not empowering or fulfilling.

so like why should we take your word for it over what the people you're talking about say themselves

[Anonymous No.3327325]

>>3327316
Your argument has no basis in reality. You are basically projecting your own beliefs onto these people with no actual sympathy or understanding of how they live and feel. Stop being 16.

[Anonymous No.3327330]

>>3327322
I've had a lot of contact with these people. If a sex worker happens to be browsing /lit/ and comes ITT and overrules me, fine. But as things stand I suspect my second hand experience is the best we have. Certainly more authentic than your romantic fantasies.

[Anonymous No.3327334]

>>3327330

nah like i'm saying you can read first hand accounts by these workers (what we in the lit biz like to call "primary sources") about how they do in fact find the work empowering/fulfilling

which actually is worth more than your "i know a guy who knows a guy" natterings

[Anonymous No.3327338]

>>3327317
>How about encourage them to only have sex with people they actually feel an emotional connection with?
Implying an emotional connection is positive. Nice. I'm sure this line of thought leads to monogamy and marriage being 'good'... You know, good ol' traditional family values.

>Being a professional meat puppet is not empowering or fulfilling.
Does this include any low wage job, or are you attaching some magical value to using genitals to perform a job instead of hands?

>They get into these jobs because of poverty and traumatic childhoods.
Nice unfounded claim. I'm sure this includes anyone who tries drugs or alcohol, anyone who likes anime, anyone who plays golf, or anyone else doing something you don't personally like.

>They're being exploited.
By being forced to function in a society that operates on financial means? Social contract? I fail to see how.

[Anonymous No.3327340]

>>3327060
If someone feels empowered, beautiful and strong when they're doing all that that then there is something seriously wrong with them.

[Anonymous No.3327354]

Just though I'd through this in: The website I use to contact "escorts" actually has a surprising amount of men too; both straight and gay. You guys seem to be arguing about women, but the prostitution industry is seeing an increasing number of men now.

[Anonymous No.3327358]

>>3327338
No one should be proud to do porn and the reason being it takes absolutely no high degree of skill and you don't have to be any sort of interesting. It contributes practically nothing to society and has an undeserved bloated economy run by crooks.

tl;dr sure porn is great but it's nothing to be idolized.

[Anonymous No.3327361]

>>3327354
i tend to think those blokes are just really hopeful.

[Anonymous No.3327366]

>>3327338
Sex is an integral component of pair bonding. By turning it into a chore these people are depriving themselves of one of the best and most essentially human experiences the world has to offer.

[Anonymous No.3327374]

>>3327060

People can do what they want.

Just don't turn around and tell me that I -must- respect you for choking on cock, that it -is- empowering to be showered in semen and to get paid for it.

It is a difference of opinion, arguments will ensue, and that's fine.

It is okay for people to disagree, it is okay to cause offense or to be offended, but that doesn't make either party indebted to the other in some fashion.

Grow up.

[Anonymous No.3327376]

>>3327358
Porn is bad because:
>A. it needs no real skill
Neither do 95% of occupations. From reality TV stars to production line employees, hardly any jobs require decent skills.

>B. It contributes practically nothing to society
Obviously it does, as the views for most porn vids wouldn't be in the millions. It provides the same to society as a predictable blockbuster film, with the added advantage of being able to orgasm to it.

>C. It has an undeserved bloated economy.
Supply and demand. If anything, the porn industry is losing far more than they should be, as porn is so easily accessible for free.

[Anonymous No.3327387]

>>3327376
>appeal to the masses

[Anonymous No.3327395]

>>3327387
How would you define something as 'contributing to society' then?

I would say distributing a highly desirable product with mass appeal fits the definition of 'contribution'.

[Anonymous No.3327403]

>>3327038
Yes, because you must travel to university in order to study philosophy...

[Anonymous No.3327410]

>>3327387
>Thinking you can cry Argumentum ad populum as a refutation in that instance

[Anonymous No.3327443]

>>3327376
ill do your faggy list...

A. And no one is bragging about being a production line employee.

B. what does mass appeal have to do with contribution to society? it only entertains a small part of society.

C. you're an idiot

[Anonymous No.3327454]

>>3327443
>A. And no one is bragging about being a production line employee.

That wasn't the point he put forth; he said there are low-skill jobs -- porn being one of them. Nowhere was it implied anyone brags about low-skilled work.

>B. what does mass appeal have to do with contribution to society? it only entertains a small part of society.

So, you agree that it contributes something to society [entertainment].

>C. you're an idiot

Lazy.

[Anonymous No.3327476]

God damn it, I'm sick of libertarians and people unable to see past their own gratification. These are the two camps who usually support prostitution.

There are women who fare well in the sex industry, but they are a vast minority. Just because Sasha Grey says she likes what she does doesn't make it true for most prostitutes or porn workers (or true for Sasha Grey for that matter... she's quite obviously fucked up).

It should come as no surprise to any adult that people will deny the nature destructive and self-destructive behavior. That denial doesn't mean the state should support it. If a methhead would tell there is absolutely nothing wrong with him, and that he likes being addicted to meth, is that incentive enough to legalize it?

Only if you're a dumbass. People are stupid and vicious, and a state will always be required, regrettably. Go to Somalia if you support personal freedom and anarchy so god damned much.

[Anonymous No.3327481]

>>3327476
well said.

[Anonymous No.3327505]

If you don't know who Sasha Grey is, that's because she's a nobody. In fact, not just "a" nobody, but the nobody. She's one of those "break-the-mold" porn stars who go into porn but can't reconcile their career choice with parental/societal expectations, so they go out of their way to seem intelligent and deep. Kind of like Asia Carrera, who mentions that she likes "quantum physics" every chance she gets. Alright, we get it, you're a nerd. Awesome. And now I'm looking at you squirt pool balls out your asshole.
I don't know what this obsession is with porn stars to try to seem deep and intelligent. We don't care. People aren't watching you because we want to see if you can name drop philosophers at parties.

On her website, Sasha strains to call herself an "artist," and that she decided to do porn because she could "bring an enigmatic quality to it."


ADJECTIVE: enigmatic
1. Having an unobvious or mysterious meaning; hard to understand
2. Mysterious

Sasha, who has appeared in such films as "Buttman's Stretch Class 2, Swallow My Squirt 4, Gang Bang My Face" and "Ass Eaters Unanimous 19" wants to bring some mystery and depth to porn. At no point in my life have I been watching porn and thought, "what does this mean?!" Porn isn't mysterious and deep, it's just a transaction between us, the paying customers, and you, the person being paid to show us your genitals. Don't like it? Fine, don't do it. But quit trying to elevate porn to art. We don't read Playboy for the articles, and we don't watch your videos because it's art.

[Anonymous No.3327509]

>>3327505
Sasha has been working on an autobiographical documentary, illustrating her experiences from the age of 18 to 21. Newsflash:

Your life has already been documented in 193 adult films.
She's 23 years old, and did porn from 18 to 21, so her life between those years has been exhaustingly documented. The average length of one of these shitty videos is an hour long. If you watched every adult film Sasha Grey has been in back to back, it would take 8 days and 58 minutes to watch them consecutively. There is nothing left to document, you cow. You did porn for 3 years, and every gaping second of it has been filmed. Are we missing something?

Her interests on MySpace include "intellectual intimacy" followed by "carpe fucking diem." Her favorite TV shows include "Homer and his family," and "NFL when the, bears, cowboys or i guess the raiders are playing but i don't really watch tv anymore,."

[Anonymous No.3327512]

>>3327509
She recently made headlines when she was chastised for "promoting child literacy" by reading to kids in an elementary school. She went on talk shows to do damage control by stating that she's now an "ex-porn star," and that she shouldn't be stigmatized just because the children she read to might Google her name and find that she starred in "No Swallowing Allowed 13." You know what? I agree. Porn stars shouldn't be stigmatized, because pretty much everyone looks at porn. But when you go out of your way to distance yourself from your past by telling everyone that you're now a legitimate actress and an "artist," guess what? You can't keep using your porn name and notoriety to land speaking engagements, acting gigs or signings. Want to be thought of as a legitimate actress? Fine, then don't keep calling yourself Sasha Grey. You're no longer Sasha. You're Marina Hantzis from Sacramento.

Sasha's an idiot, but that's not the reason I hate her. Everything I said above has nothing to do with the reason I think she's terrible at being human. The reason I hate her is because of a live show I saw her in this past week.

I was at a comedy show in which Sasha was one of the guest panelists. Her job was to listen to performers debate a topic for 1 minute, and then decide which performer had the stronger debating skills. Throughout the entire show, she kept interrupting the performers, the other panelists, and even the hosts of the show. This woman has an unquenchable thirst for attention. Sometimes she'd just interrupt with a noise or a growl. No rhyme or reason, just Sasha saying "hey everyone, look at me!" When she wasn't busy talking and interrupting the show, she was busy texting and ignoring the performers, denying them the respect she demands of her own "art."

[Anonymous No.3327514]

>>3327512
At one point during the show, she just got up and left during one of the performances. Then she meandered back in, started texting again, and sat there like a babbling idiot when it was her turn to share her stupid, unfunny anecdote about the performances. Her attempts at humor are so smug, and self-satisfied, you'd think she went to college for it. And this is coming from a guy whose site is titled, "The Best Page in the Universe." When I call you narcissistic, that's saying something.

And despite all of her smugness and pretentious blustering, she continues to get work and notoriety because she's a bitch. Being a bitch may seem counter-intuitive, but here's why girls like Sasha can make money in porn: the guys who watch her are spineless pussies. Her fans are virgins and idiots (mutually inclusive), and she can manipulate them into compliance by flashing a tit and dropping some nerd reference. Then all the pussies who can't get laid will fawn after her and idolize her, because she's exactly what every lonely nerd imagines the perfect girl to be: attractive with an interest in nerdisms. She's anything but a nerd. How could she be? She's too busy sniffing her own ass and spinning people around her to keep up the illusion that the microcosmic world she lives in matters.

[Anonymous No.3327516]

>>3327514
Don't believe me? Here are some comments her fans left her from her most recent Facebook post:

"sasha please sex me,,"
Yes Sasha, please sex him. And when you're done promoting child literacy, maybe you can promote fan literacy.

"I would give my life for night with you"
Loser.

"I fuck you sasha ... you wonderful very sexy..."
"So what is it you do? Oh, you fuck Sasha? Well, she wonderful ... very sexy." Dipshit.

"your sexy"
You're.

"fuck what everyone says sasha ur beautiful and u can do anything u put ur mind 2"
One person liked this comment. One other person read that, thought about it, moved his mouse over and clicked 'like' to register his approval of this message. Let it be known that for now and forever, Johnny R. on Facebook would like the world to know that he supports Sasha's endeavor to accomplish her goals.

"is it u in eminem video clip space bound ??????"
Is it "u" Sasha? Is it u in eminem video clip ?????? I need to know urgently!

"love your music and your soul!"
Yes Sasha, your fans adore your vagina and your music, but you know what they really like about you? Your soul. Keep putting that on display because your fans love it.

I think I've proven my point. Or maybe I haven't, I don't care, because I'm going to gnaw my face off if I have to read any more of these stupid comments.

[Anonymous No.3327533]

>>3327476
>These are the two camps who usually support prostitution.
But you didn't address either of them

Camp 1 argues that people should be sovereign over their own bodies and have the right to do with them what they please. This is a civil liberties matter and gets lost in the argument over whether the state has an obligation to provide safety at the cost of restricting freedom.

Camp 2. argues that sex workers would be safer if the sex trade was legislated and licensed, like the German or Australian models. With sex workers able to work in secure brothels with all the attachments of a legal job; taxation, medical care, pension schemes... This argument usually holds weight as the western countries already using this model have lower numbers of child prostitution, abuse towards prostitutes, drug addiction, HIV (the Australian model requires compulsory testing), and a lower burden on policing, coupled with a higher revenue taken from the hands of criminals and introduced back through legal economics.

[Anonymous No.3327642]

>>3327038
ive watched that movie
have you ever seen something so over edited that it ceases being one unintelligible mass to three?
there would be subtitles to read, text on the screen, somebody talking in english somebody talking in french

french new wave masturbatory bullshit

[Anonymous No.3327658]

>>3327505
>>3327509
>>3327512
>>3327514
>>3327516

well said

[Anonymous No.3327691]

>>3327516
I don't get your point. Since when are Facebook comments relevant in any way?

[Anonymous No.3327696]

>>3327691

They're not. Ignore the thread.

[Anonymous No.3327702]

>>3327533

Damnit, quick reply ate up my post...

Anyway, I may be dumb but I don't really see why what you put in your body couldn't be included in the concept of sovereignty over your own body, and thus why drugs would be any different from prostitution. Most countries' civil liberties don't include either prostitution or drugs.

And I never meant to address whether legalization is the pragmatically best way to go, I was referring to the type of people who reason "I like using porn/prostitution so of course it should be legal! Let's find some arguments to support this stance! Whoa, look, I guess I'm libertarian too..."

The inability to form political opinion based on personal gratification is shared by many equally annoying potheads and other drug-users.

I've done plenty of destructive and amoral things but I have no need to claim they were anything but that, and I don't think anything I like doing should be legal just because I like doing it and perhaps can do it in a responsible manner.

[Anonymous No.3327717]

>>3327702
>Most countries' civil liberties don't include either prostitution or drugs.

is=/= ought

What right do you have to restrict the freedom of others?

>amoral

What is amoral about prostitution? About drug use?

[Anonymous No.3327721]

>>3327658
>well said

It's c&p from 'the best page in the universe'

[Anonymous No.3327739]

Sure is reddit in here.

[Anonymous No.3327761]

>copy pasting an entire maddox article to /lit/

Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.3327820]

>>3327702
>why drugs would be any different from prostitution in the concept of sovereignty over your own body.

In that instance they would be the same. I was merely pointing out that the debate gets lost in an argument over what freedoms the state will be prepared to call civil liberties. 'Seat belts' is a good issue to look at. In my country it is illegal to drive a car without having your seatbelt fastened. From the public perspective this is an intrusion, as the only person harmed is yourself; you should have the freedom to decide to wear one. The state believes it is responsible to reduce harm, and it's seatbelt law does ultimately reduce deaths. It's the same argument as drugs and prostitution (but of course, there are secondary consequences to factor in there) From the libertarian perspective, personal freedom to do something comes before the state desire to protect you from it.

Unfortunately, the states option is often counter-intuitive, preventing its citizens from doing a certain thing can ultimately cause more deaths, such is the case with drugs and prostitution.

[Anonymous No.3327825]

>>3326970
Can't we give it a rest about that stupid whore? Yes she is dumb, yes she is trying to act intelligent. Whatever. Move on. Read a book.

[Anonymous No.3327832]

>>3327717
Where did I write that prostitution or drug use is inherently amoral? You obviously don't understand what I mean or I am not very good at communicating it.

And well, your first question can be used on every argument until it collapses into existentialistic nonsense. If you do not think people's freedom should be restricted move to Somalia as I said. I've worked there, and it's pretty much anarchy in many places. What right do you have to restrict the freedom of others to kill?

[Anonymous No.3327887]

>>3327832
>Strawman

[Anonymous No.3327905]

>>3327820
>Unfortunately, the states option is often counter-intuitive, preventing its citizens from doing a certain thing can ultimately cause more deaths, such is the case with drugs and prostitution.

Legalizing drugs wouldn't do that though. Not when you have drugs like crack and heroin.

[Anonymous No.3327915]

http://www.brobible.com/girls/article/kayden-kross-interview-part-2/page-2

>mfw Kayden Kross gets fucked and published with HarperCollins, I get neither.

Her 5 books recommended to freshman:
1. Atlas Shrugged
>(Endorsement: “You’re going to love it at 18 and turn away from it at 19. I think it gives you a great perspective—but just don’t stay with it!”)
2. Brief Interviews With Hideous Men
3. White Noise
4. Now Is The Hour
5. Stories In The Worst Way

Not bad.

[Anonymous No.3327919]

>>3327905
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

[Anonymous No.3327927]

>>3327366
This is probably the strongest argument against porn, in my opinion. I'm not hung up on any of the more Puritan reservations, but it just seems like a great way to ruin something fantastic for yourself. It's like having pancakes every morning for a year.

[Anonymous No.3327948]

>>3327366
That goes for a lot of professions though. Masseuse, psychologist, cook, nanny, etc.

[Anonymous No.3327961]

>>3327915
>mfw Kayden Kross gets fucked and published with HarperCollins, I get neither.
I lol'd

>Ayn Rand
>DFW
>DeLillo

All she's missing is something by Tao Lin and Beyond Good And Evil

[Anonymous No.3327973]

>>3327905
That's exactly what I meant by 'counter-intuitive.' The majority of deaths from harder drugs come from impurities, overdoses, and diseases like hepatitis and HIV. If they were regulated, impurities would be reduced, and a heroin user wouldn't be injecting cleaning products and rat poison. A lot of overdoses are attributed to variable strength of street drugs, they can be cut lower that 15%, so when a user gets pure stuff they can easily overdose.

For evidence of this we can look at Portugal. They adopted a policy of tolerance - drug use and possession is no longer a prosecutable offence. As a result, drug related deaths fell by a third and the spread of HIV halved. We have a direct correlation between the relaxing of laws (for drugs like heroin and crack) and the prevention of deaths. As an aside, the numbers of users for most age groups also fell, the burden to the taxpayer reduced, the numbers of people incarcerated fell. Portugal's trial has been so effective that Italy and the Czech Republic have also followed.

[Anonymous No.3327988]

>>3327927
It's complete bullshit, though. Sex isn't itself fantastic or more human than anything else, those are both (by definition) projections of our feelings and values on the act. You're only projecting the 'devaluation' of sex on to porn stars, the porn stars themselves may still enjoy it

Also seeing sex as integral to 'pair bonding' (and therefore reserved to it) is pretty close to being hung up on 'Puritan reservations'.

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3328028]

[Anonymous No.3328108]

>>3328028
Precise.

[Anonymous No.3328173]

>>3327316
This happens where I live:
It's nearly midnight on a Thursday and teen-age girls are on every corner of International Boulevard in the dozen blocks stretching south from 41st Street. Many are dressed up. But this is not prom night or a concert letting out.

Some have bruises on their bodies; some are pregnant. Not far from any one of them is a sex trafficker who stands to make $500 a night from each girl he or she controls. Recruited with promises of love, or sometimes simply kidnapped, the girls are then put out on the streets.
"They have quotas. If they don't come back with (the) quota, they stay out or get beaten," said investigator Jim Saleda, of the Oakland Police Department's Child Exploitation Unit, as he drove along International one night in an effort to rescue some girls and arrest pimps.

"Typically it's about $500," he said shaking his head. "Ten tricks," he said. Ten encounters with strangers.

[Anonymous No.3328180]

>>3328028
There's never any original content in those threads though, everyone just posts the fucking Joyce/Pynchon/DFW ones.

[Anonymous No.3328186]

>>3327988
>You're only projecting the 'devaluation' of sex on to porn stars, the porn stars themselves may still enjoy it

I've been jerking it to queer/alternative porn as of late, and this dogma runs deep throughout all of it, but it's hard not to imagine it just becoming a job after a while. I don't think it's necessarily being devalued, but it could get boring.

[Anonymous No.3328203]

>>3328186
Again, you're projecting your experience onto others.

[Anonymous No.3328218]

>>3328203
>projecting
>projecting!
>PROJECTING!

[Anonymous No.3328223]

>>3328218
Yes

[Anonymous No.3328249]

>The name "Sasha" was taken from Sascha Konietzko of the band KMFDM,[16] and "Grey" represents Oscar Wilde’s novel The Picture of Dorian Gray.

[Anonymous No.3328251]

Nice to see the same 'drama' examples being pulled in a few replies: >>3328173 >>3327481 and a few others. Like bad soaps and cheap news shows, you only ever notice the disasters in life. The fact that life, and peoples experience of such, is so varied can safely be ignored so as to provide outrage for the more sensitive soul. Bless ya one and all. Life's really that simple huh.

Try thinking 'sex work' as like drinking alcohol. The street walker - can be compared to an alcoholic on a park bench, drinking themselves senseless on a morning. The 'escort' as someone in a nightclub on a weekend, getting drunk. Technically the same act; both essentially unhealthy, but one much more socially acceptable at least in the heads of the folks doing it.

I've had to pick up the pieces of that occupation regarding a few friends and family over the years, both tiers and a few in between, but overall: it's just a job. In the case of of the street walker, yeah you're looking at misery; but stop looking down on them and if you must do something positive to help them offer them a job or something. The rest, like people who drink responsibly, are generally much more hard headed and collected about themselves than you could probably conceive, as much as anyone is anyway. Stop trying to crudely stereotype people to sate your desire for outrage, most of you are smarter than this.

[Anonymous No.3328268]

Sure is white knight in here.

[Anonymous No.3328284]

>>3328028
Why is your 4chan black???

[Anonymous No.3328286]

>>3328251
I don't look down on them, I feel bad for them. Especially the teenagers. I know some women who worked in the sex trade and came away unscathed and richer for it, but they are the exception, not the rule. What do you the ratio is between empowered, independent, stable sex workers and desperate, miserable and unhappy prostitues? I'd say 1:10.

If you're the poster who keeps arguing about the liberation of sex, I think your intent is admirable but I look at what you say with a pragmatic eye on reality. You're almost like the vanguard in the dialectic that has to be making outrageous statements to counter the outrageous statements made by the right/conservative Christina freaks. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3328293]

>>3328284
I'm a wizard harry.

[Anonymous No.3328302]

>>3328251
It might be helpful for you to add something to your discourse that at least acknowledges that all sex for money transactions are not 'healthy' and 'empowering.' Bad soaps and cheap news doesn't explain 12 year old hookers out all night on a main street in the city where I live. I don't have the answer, I really don't, so I can't argue with you, because I don't totally disagree with you. But some acknowledgment that all sex work is not fulfilling has to happen somehow.

[Anonymous No.3328316]

>>3326970
Holy shit, is it 2007 already?

[Anonymous No.3328347]

>>3327060
I think the image is more geared toward the dom/sub relationship, to which the degradation/disgust components are strongly connected. You can see the male's hand forcing her down onto his "package", to the extent an average person would probably choke, her makeup sooting up her face, semen oozing out of her mouth... I think it's readily apparent that she's being "dominated" by the male, and part of this act of domination is clearly shitting on the very concepts of "feminine empowerment," "beauty," and "strength." The subjugation of her will, if not actual then portrayed, demotes her from a thinking human being to a sex object, much like a slave or subhuman, to a simple receptacle for the penis.

That was my take on it, anyway.

[Anonymous No.3328358]

>>3328347

You're acting like dom/sub fantasies aren't common to both sexes.

Saying this is inherently wrong is denying sexual agency to both men and women who wish to act out such fantasies. That you would presume to have the moral high-ground by claiming such an action is demoting her from a human being to a sex object is demeaning to her as a human being with free agency. That's the entire point.

That you find something obscene is hardly relevant. Some people claim that women wearing bikinis are portraying themselves as sex objects - where do we draw the line and why?

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.3328367]

So, I've been banned two or three times for posting things I didn't (NSFW on a blue board) and threads like these thrive.
Has anyone else reported it?

[Anonymous No.3328380]

>>3328367
reported for reporting report

[Anonymous No.3328383]

>>3328367
I was banned from /lit/ a few months ago for posting Venus of Urbino by Titan. Apparently it was pornography.

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.3328406]

>>3328383
Thought so :\

[Anonymous No.3328414]

>>3328383
What, this?

[Anonymous No.3328435]

>>3328358
>>3328358
>You're acting like dom/sub fantasies aren't common to both sexes.
The image depicts a man in the domination position and a female in the submissive position. I refer only to this relation.

>Saying this is inherently wrong is denying sexual agency to both men and women who wish to act out such fantasies.
I'm not saying it's wrong, per se, so much as I'm saying it's unbefitting of the promotion of the ideals of beauty, empowerment and strength.

>That you would presume to have the moral high-ground by claiming such an action is demoting her from a human being to a sex object is demeaning to her as a human being with free agency. That's the entire point.
As I'll readily state, my opinion on what's disgusting or degrading hardly matters to this situation. My theory is that she finds the dom/sub position appealing (if she does, if this isn't another flourish of marketing) specifically because SHE finds it degrading.

>That you find something obscene is hardly relevant.
Indeed. These ideologies are no more concrete than the ideas of empowerment, beauty, or strength.

>Some people claim that women wearing bikinis are portraying themselves as sex objects - where do we draw the line and why?
I suppose the difference here is that the woman in a bikini, while perhaps portraying herself as a sex object, does so without entirely compromising her will. It's not as if there's a man somewhere forcing her into a bikini. The entire dom/sub relationship is appealing to the sub particularly because they are deprived of what they might call "human decency". They want to be treated, if only for a short time, as an object alone.

My case isn't so much that she actually compromises her free will by assuming a submissive position, but I'm more interested in the psychological factors that make the role, even if assumed temporarily, still interesting and desirable to someone who, in reality, values, or claims to value, the complete opposite.

[Anonymous No.3328460]

>>3328435
>man in the domination position and a female in the submissive position

A fantasy common to both sexes.

>unbefitting of the promotion of the ideals of beauty, empowerment and strength.

How so? I think a dom/sub relationship can be a very beautiful and empowering thing.

>specifically because SHE finds it degrading.

So what? If that's what turns her on, who are you to say she's wrong for thinking that? Or that being attracted to the notion degradation is degrading in and of itself?

>It's not as if there's a man somewhere forcing her into a bikini.

It's not as if there's a man forcing Sasha Grey into the career she's chosen.

>they are deprived of what they might call "human decency".

Of their own volition, and this is not necessarily universally true by any means.

>They want to be treated, if only for a short time, as an object alone

And you would presume to say any given female isn't strong enough to make the decision as to what they want or don't want? How is that not objectification?

[Anonymous No.3328535]

>>3328460
>A fantasy common to both sexes.
This is mutually agreed upon, but is alas irrelevant. My argument no more applies to the relationship of a male being in the sub position and a female in the dom position than it does to people who don't find what others think are disgusting and degrading to be "empowering."

>How so? I think a dom/sub relationship can be a very beautiful and empowering thing.
I'm not referring to the relationship, I'm referring to the position of the person in sub.

>So what? If that's what turns her on, who are you to say she's wrong for thinking that? Or that being attracted to the notion degradation is degrading in and of itself?
I wouldn't have taken issue with her actions had she not expressed she valued beauty, empowerment and strength. She's not censurable by my standards, she's censurable by her own standards.

>It's not as if there's a man forcing Sasha Grey into the career she's chosen.
Very true, and again I emphasize that the submission isn't in reality, but in fiction. Still, I am interested in why she finds this entirely fictitious act of role-playing to be gratifying.

>Of their own volition, and this is not necessarily universally true by any means.
The person in the sub position doesn't defer their will, it's not really a sub position is it?

>And you would presume to say any given female isn't strong enough to make the decision as to what they want or don't want? How is that not objectification?
They most certainly are capable of deciding what they do or don't want. I'm just curious why Grey enjoys the sub position when she values empowerment, etc.

I cannot stress enough that I neither disapprove of or condone S&D roleplaying in a general sense. However, based on the image, i.e. what has been pictured and quoted, I feel there is some contradictory element between what Sasha Grey has said and how she has acted. Sasha Grey in the sub position is the ONLY situation which I take any issue with, in light of what she said.

[Anonymous No.3328567]

porn on a sfw board. OP, you're too much