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/lit/ - Literature

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3319691 No.3319691 [Reply] [Original]

ITT: Harold Bloom

>your opinion of him
>did he rape her
>did he really read all the books listed in his Western Canon
>is he a douchebag or a gentleman and a scholar

>> No.3319703

Also:

>opinion on the Western Canon

I bought it but haven't read it yet.

>> No.3319704
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3319704

He didn't "rape her." She accused him of putting his hand on her leg. She was really hammered and puked in the sink and then Harold Bloom peaced the fuck out and told her she was a skank who couldn't hold her Amarillo and questioned whether she even read.

He has read everything he claims. But he doesn't have any new ideas, so he tends have some pretty narrow taste. He's right when he says a book is good, but not necessarily right when he says a book is bad.

>> No.3319706

lickspittle running dog of cultural imperialism

bumping your own thread with the first reply is tremendously gauche btw

>> No.3319711

>>3319703
It's a good book, man. He likes to think he's edgy and provocative.

He's got interesting things to say about Freud, Proust and most of the guys he writes about in The Western Canon.

Use the index/table of contents and look up authors you're interested in. It's not necessary to read the book in a linear fashion.

Everything he's written since has been a regurgitation of this book.

>> No.3319713

His speed reading claims are untenable. The guy is a fraud.

And his work on Shakespeare is vacuous and dull. Even James Wood is better.

>> No.3319717

>>3319706
>bumping your own thread with the first reply is tremendously gauche btw

it was an addendum made 3 minutes after the original post had been submitted, you complete autist.

>> No.3319718

>>3319713
Yeah, he's not the greatest critic of Shakespeare.

Empson, Kermode and a few others surpass him.

>> No.3319720

>>3319706
>bumping your own thread with the first reply is tremendously gauche btw

It so happens I don't give a good goddam about being gauche on an anonymous board, and I don't see why anyone should.

>> No.3319725

>>3319713
>His speed reading claims are untenable

That was my thought when I saw the list of books in his book: how could anyone have read all these - in depths - and even write about it? Did he read the books or just summaries of them?

>> No.3319726

>>3319720

i mean if you want to be a tasteless oaf thats cool too

>> No.3319727

>>3319717

Very true, actually. I never considered /lit/ a board that needs a lot of bumping.

>> No.3319730

>>3319726

>tasteless

I still don't care.

>> No.3319732

> tfw school of Resentment didn't teach you how to love literature

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLBXe3z9zx8

What gusto!

>> No.3319735

He's a "character", but not a great critic.

>> No.3319738

>>3319730

nobody's asking you to care friend it was a helpful pointer for in case you didn't want to come across as a monumental boor

>> No.3319757

>>3319738
You don't exactly seem like an expert in the matter yourself, tbh.

>> No.3319765

>>3319738
>to come across as a monumental boor

Guess what...

>that's exactly how you come across for discussing 4chan etiquette when there's a far more interesting question at stake

>> No.3319771

>>3319691

Bloom is literally a clown who plays 'a smart Jewish bookish guy' in the media circus.

>> No.3319784

>>3319765

implying harold bloom is more interesting than literally anything

>> No.3319815

>did he really read all the books listed in his Western Canon
Yeah. How young are you? You'd get through a decent chunk of that list just completing an undergraduate English major.

>> No.3319822
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3319822

>>3319706
>on being gauche
>you have a call

>> No.3319834

>>3319713
>His speed reading claims are untenable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shdgtApVPPA

>> No.3319987

>>3319815
>just completing an undergraduate English major.

I got an MA, I know what's required reading, and you'd never be asked to read anciet Greek books, as it's not English, dumbass.

Undergrad English = nothing not originally written in English. Fucktwat.

>> No.3320019

>>3319987
>Undergrad English = nothing not originally written in English. Fucktwat.

Uh, what? I'm an undergrad english student and I've been asked to read Quixote, The Odyssey, Rabelais, Sebald, and I'm sure a few others that were in translation.

>> No.3320027

>>3320019
I think it's safe to assume neither of them know what they're talking about.

>> No.3320153

>>3319987

There's a lot on there that you wouldn't touch outside of a Comp Lit program, yes, but why do you highlight the Greek? Some of that English programs actually would have you read as a background. My program didn't require the course, but in upper level courses it was assumed you were already familiar with the classics. I think in Columbia you wouldn't even need to study Lit to read that. As a Freshman you'd take a 2-semester course surveying from Greek to more recent texts, reading a book a week.

A book a week is pretty standard for upper-level literature classes, and you have to take a good number of them to complete the major, so while not everything you read will be on that list, you will read a small fraction, and may take it upon yourself to read some others (if you hadn't already before college).

I did a really rough estimate of how many books are on that list, and it could easily be read in 20 or so years. Bloom was 64 when he wrote The Western Canon.

>> No.3320174

>>3320019
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shdgtApVPPA

European education is different, we're asked to read classics during our version of high school; university is for specialisation, not general culture.

You'd never study a non-English book while studying English, that's nonsensical.

>> No.3320452

So is the book fucking worth it?

>> No.3320486

Cunt
No
Yes
1st

He's capsguy and roach poster rolled into one and made an academic

>> No.3320509

>>3320174
I've read Kafka, Marquez and Goethe as part of mine

>> No.3320513

>>3320509

How do you take a class in English on Kafka? That would be impossible here. Kafka isn't English literature, or American, or Australian; he didn't write in English. World literature isn't "English".

That's very odd.

>> No.3320535

>>3320452
Yeah, it's worth it, trust me. Just read parts of it at a time.

He's not as bad as people make out. If he was less of a celebrity and didn't publish the same book over and over people would take him much more seriously.

>> No.3320542

>>3320513
That'd be because certain schools of criticism such as post-colonialism all but require non-English texts to examine in lieu of the theory.
The Goethe was taught as part of a course of Romanticism because if you neglect him you end up with a massive gap in your knowledge of the period.

>> No.3320602

>>3320542

In my university, you wouldn't be allowed to choose non-English subjects for a certain class. You couldn't take an English-written but non-American author for an American literature class.

>> No.3320672

>>3320174
So, what you're saying is that the generalization you made doesn't hold water when compared to other standards? What a surprise.

Also, it's not uncommon for an old man who, allegedly, was quoting Lord Byron when he was 9 to have read a fuck more books than you can.

>> No.3320676

>>3320602
I don't care about your university standards.

>> No.3320693

>>3320602
Odd that you've found a university that's gave you an especially stupid form of elitism

>> No.3320712

I've heard nothing of his 'Speed reading'.
He often complains that his life is too short, and mankind itself is cursed due to our limited ability to read.

I think Bloom is interesting and I've been trying to figure out exactly his putting down of cultural criticism. I get why people are so against him; he says criticism is bullshit because 25,000 people say they are critics but there are only one or two people alive at once with any promise. Bloom slams the current norm of pandering to the dreams of the masses, and confirms reality when he speaks of the mundane qualities of most writing, writers, critics, and schools.

>> No.3320730

>>3320712
Nah he criticises critics because it allows him to keep his role as chief critic of a stagnant canon

>> No.3320749

>>3320712
>I've heard nothing of his 'Speed reading'.

It's a myth that goes around that he can read 1,000 pages an hour or something. It's not true, just some people like in this thread who see that an old man read a shit-ton of books and go, "Woah, he must read like super fast."

>> No.3320769

he's an okay guy who's obviously really passionate about books and is an insightful critic and analyst of them, and you have to appreciate him for that, even if you disagree with much of his larger critical apparatus and his larger invective. i don't feel myself capable of judging what happened between him and Naomi Wolf and i can't comment on that.

>> No.3320845

"Woah, he must read, like, super fast"

>> No.3320929

>>3320672

Will you relax you little bitch?

I never said it was impossible to have read this much, just was curious.

>> No.3320937

>>3320693

They just assume that if you study English, you should study English, not Russian or else.

>> No.3320950

>>3320937
>They
name it scrub

>> No.3320956

>>3320749

I don't think that, but if you've read over 3,000 books by age 50, I wonder how you did.

>> No.3320988

>>3320769

Thanks. I don't understand why the sage, though.

>> No.3320995

>>3320950

They? My ol'teachers. The English department had 4 sections:

>Old and Middle English (Medieval to early Renaissance)
>linguistics
>British Literature
>American Literature

And you have to do courses and write essays in each. So I did. No room for Kafka in any of this stuff.

>> No.3321001

>>3320995
Classic misdirection

>> No.3321015

>>3321001

Like I said, what Americans study in college we already study in High School. Once you've done High School here, you're read to start university on a real subject. You don't need any more "general culture" classes because you've done all of that during High School.

Even people who go on to study astrophysics will have been given an education in world literature during High School.

We just have higher standards. My country has the second most complete High School after Japan. Also the hardest after Japan.

>> No.3321025

>>3319732
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLBXe3z9zx8
Haha oh my god. A man seeing the great nothingness for the first time, along with the aurora borealis.

I live up there, I know exactly what hit Wallace.

>> No.3321028

>>3321025

Can't watch the video, what's this about?

>> No.3321034

>>3321028
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLBXe3z9zx8
HaroldBloom - On The Auroras of Autumn by Wallace Stevens

>> No.3321038

>>3321034
>On The Auroras of Autumn by Wallace Stevens

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4332908?uid=3737760&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101534725811

Rather bad poetry.

>> No.3321064

>>3319711
Almost every popular non-fiction writer writes one book over and over it's nothing notable.

>> No.3321066

>>3321015
Just name your fucking uni already

>> No.3321067

>>3321015
You're not even arguing with an american, christ

>> No.3321086

>>3321064
Sure, except for the fact that Bloom writes over 9000 introductions and they're all regurgitations of shit he's said in The Westernn Canon.

>> No.3321095

>>3321067

Prove it, yank.

>> No.3321521

Bump.

>> No.3322209

>He's a dick. but he's right about a lot of things. It seems like the apathy towards the milestone works of the past disgusts him. Also people going to college to learn liberal buzzwords instead of learning stuff pisses him off. And poetry slams. And he's pretty much right about all of that.
>I never heard anything about him being a rapist.
>I'm going to go ahead and say yeah.
>He's a scholar but not much of a gentleman.

>> No.3322245

>>3320749
He can read between 400 and 500 pages an hour.
Google it.

>> No.3322247

>>3321095
>implying you're not Americunt

>> No.3322250

>>3322245

God-tier autism.
I wish I could read that in a day.

>> No.3322253

>>3320749
He said himself that he used to be able to read 1000 pages an hour, but as he's gotten older he reads only about half that.

>> No.3322263

>>3322253
I don't know if I can believe that

>> No.3322274
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3322274

one of the funniest photographs ever taken

the frowning nerdy jew sneering at the world in general

>> No.3322291

>>3322253
one thousand pages an hour? so sixteen pages a minute? okay

>> No.3322302

>>3322253
This is a myth. He never said that. He talks about it in an interview for New York Magazine, which is available on Google books - the article is called 'Bloom's Day' I believe.

>"No human can read a thousand pages an hour, my dear," he said. "You can't turn pages that quickly."

He goes on to say:
>"I can read amazingly quickly when things are going right for me. I certainly can read a 400-page book in just about an hour and retain from it whatever I want to retain. My head is a sort of vast old filing cabinet."

>> No.3322300

fun fact harold bloom's only contribution to literature was an embarrassing piece of fantasy fan fiction based on 'a voyage to arcturus'

>> No.3322310

>>3322302
anyone born in the 21st century who ends a sentence with "my dear" deserves to be bullied or maybe even killed

>> No.3322312

>>3322310
the 20th century, even

>> No.3322316

>>3322302
That's much more reasonable.

>> No.3322318

>>3322310
Then I better kill my grandmother. And many of my former educators. Damn, got a lot of cleaning up to do tonight.

>> No.3322319

There's no value in speed-reading most books. They're written to be read with an internal voice. If anyone truly speed-reads they're not going to be observing italicised words, stresses, assonance, even irony. It's a useless skill only good for technical manuals.

When Harold Bloom says he can read 400 pages in an hour, he's not lying. He says it right there: 'retain from it whatever I want to retain'. He's not reading the books, merely skimming them for quotes and criticisms.

>> No.3322322

>>3322310
You absolute fucking autist. Of all the things to take issue with...

>> No.3322336

>>3322322
says the steampunk

>> No.3322342

>>3322302
Another except from the article that I found interesting, the interview writes:
>I assumed Bloom had a photographic memory...
To which Bloom responds:
>"No, no," he said. "It's not photographic at all. It's auditory and aesthetic. I can, for instance, I think, recit any line or passage or even vast work of poetry that I've ever cared for. I can recite Milton's Paradise Lost from beginning to end, like running off a tape, simply because it is for me a major aesthetic experience. I can recite most of Blake from beginning to end, I can recite most of the Hebrew Bible from beginning to end..."

Whatever I may think of Bloom's published works, I can't help but envy and respect his memory. The internet has ruined my brain forever.

>> No.3322346

>>3322336
What the fuck is a steampunk?

>> No.3322354

>>3322302

>don't be silly, 1000 pages an hour is insane! incomprehensible!
>I only read half that speed

>> No.3322358

>a hack
>yes, he did rape my dear precious literature academia. Now she can't even look me in the eye and we don't have marital relations without her screaming in horror.
>No. Obviously.
>Douchebag

>> No.3322370

>>3322354
Your point being?

>> No.3322374

>>3322346
lol when people pretend not to know what something is in 2013
google takes 2 secs

>> No.3322376

>>3322370

Pretty self evident...

>> No.3322382

>>3322374
I know what fucking steampunk is, faggot. It doesn't make sense in the context you're using it, so I was just giving you an opportunity to explain yourself.

>> No.3322385

>>3322376
Maybe I'm just dumb. Please, elucidate.

>> No.3322386

>>3322382

>autist in charge of damage control

>> No.3322388
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3322388

>>3322385
>dumb
>elucidate
I salute you, sir.

>> No.3322390

>>3322385

I find it funny that he shrugs off 1,000 words an hour like it's an out-of-this-world number but casually says he reads 400 like it's nothing.

>> No.3322406

>>3322390
Oh, yes, that is rather funny. I thought perhaps there was a subtext of contempt or disbelief to your comment. Just wanted to check.

>> No.3322416

>>3322382
how / what would you feel if someone (under 500 years old) ended a sentence with "my dear" while talking to you

>> No.3322421
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3322421

>>3322386
I can't win with you people.

>> No.3322422

>>3322406

I'm not sure that I believe it, but I have no reason not to.

>> No.3322423

>>3322421
What do you mean "you people?"

>> No.3322427

>>3322423
What do YOU mean "you people?"

>> No.3322429

>>3322423
>>3322421

Yeah. You do seem pretty autistic pulling out that snobbish cliche.

>> No.3322440

>>3322416
I wouldn't mind. I like it. It's a casual term of endearment. I start letters/emails to people who aren't all that dear to me with "Dear so and so." Thus, to me it seems only natural that someone might put it at the end of a sentence. It's no different to "bro." Actually I much prefer it to "bro." I don't care much for what's fashionable in English and I don't imagine Bloom does either. Only autists like yourself would take issue with "my dear."

>> No.3322442

>>3322427
Jews. Obviously.

>> No.3322449
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3322449

>>3322442

>> No.3322451

>>3322429
How is being a snob autistic?
How is being cliched autistic?
In my view, neither of those things are particularly autistic.

>> No.3322454

>>3322449
What the fuck did that look mean? Why don't you express yourself in plain English?

>> No.3322459

>>3322454
>claims not to be an autist
>can't read facial expressions

>> No.3322461

>>3322451

>further demonstrating your virulent autism

>> No.3322472

>>3322421
Employing a bemused Nazi as a reaction image whilst simultaneously using the phrase "you people" was a pretty autistic move.

>> No.3322513

My dad used to teach English at Yale in the 70's. Bloom didn't have a license, so, on occasion, he needed people to drive him around. My dad took him into the city a few times. Every time they passed the Bronx, Bloom would say, "The Bronx? No thonks."

That's my little Broom anecdote.

>> No.3322566

>>3322513

Are you the same guy who used to visit his house?

>> No.3322581

lol when you forget about a thread you posted in and other people take over your side of the argument as if they're you

thanks though guys cause i'm about to go to sleep

>> No.3322590

>>3322513
bloom is obviously a witty humorist

>> No.3322601

>>3322513

If anyone uses this in a novel one day, Bloom might pick it up and think 'How the fuck do they know that?'

>> No.3322614

>>3322513
lol

>> No.3322743

>>3322513
Fucking awesome.

>> No.3322758

Americans will never get to read the best history of western literature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Maria_Carpeaux

>> No.3322760

>>3322758

I know Spanish so reading huehuehue is a breeze.

>> No.3323030

>>3320956
>if you've read over 3,000 books by age 50, I wonder how you did.
Do you even read? It's not hard to read a hundred books a year, if you do that since you're 20 there you go.

>> No.3323036

>>3323030
And if reading's your job, over 200 books a year isn't impossible.

>> No.3323063

>>3319691
>did he rape her

I hope so!