The act of writing fiction is obscene. It's ridiculously pretentious. Writing fiction for pleasure is like masturbating to pictures of yourself. How could anyone stand this?

File: 136 KB, 670x893, 1318303543655.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:22:02 2012 No.3294009 [DELETED]

The act of writing fiction is obscene.
It's ridiculously pretentious. Writing fiction for pleasure is like masturbating to pictures of yourself.

How could anyone stand this?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:25:02 2012 No.3294028 It's called creativity. It's hard to live without it. You use it too.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:26:02 2012 No.3294029 >obscene >pretentious Arbitrary distinctions based on personal referents. Delete the thread and try again.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:26:02 2012 No.3294031 Read the fiction of Robert Walser. Read the diaries of Kafka and Tolstoy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:26:02 2012 No.3294030 >Writing fiction for pleasure is like masturbating to pictures of yourself. The fuck are you talking about?

Bassetsquirrel Fri Dec 28 22:29:02 2012 No.3294042

I agree with OP, and I'm disgusted with myself for responding and reading my own words as i type them. As well I'm disgusted with OP, all posters, this thread, this entire board. As well I don't understand the need for women outside of procreation and a need to defile something.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:32:02 2012 No.3294056 >>3294042 Writing honestly about your thoughts and what you know is authentic. Writing lies about imaginary characters is dirty. Bombasting their lives with purple prose and aesthetics is so contrived; disgusting.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:34:02 2012 No.3294067

It's not something you have to withstand, it's something that grows as a necessity, either from birth or from education and that you have ideas, scenarios and words that you must put down into paper to relieve yourself from the weight of the "what if" and from the weight of the logic and emotion that project themself everytime you pay attention to what you see and live.

What you think writing fiction is about is probably not what really is. As usual, different fields, different understandings of the world, different lives, see each other as vanities, as masturbation, as something impossible to understand, as something the other must "stand". You just have to understand this is not really a choice. One cannot help being logical, being mathematic, or going to the gym, or being attracted to that one woman or, in our case, one cannot help but write. And much like you cannot understand what your friend saw in his nagging wife, you may not understand the reasons of our love. Do notice: even the love of reason is an unreasonable love. So please understand our marriage to writing, as you love your own work.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:34:02 2012 No.3294068 >>3294009 Why is she wearing two pairs of undies?

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:34:02 2012 No.3294071

>>3294056

You don't understand art, do you?

The photographic and the direct is not the sole aim of art, it hasn't been for a long time.

Art gets us closer to the true state of things by evoking sensation through a dance with the reader. It's an aesthetic experience but it's also an emotional and intellectual one.

What is interesting about honesty and authenticity in and of itself with regard to artistic exploration?

>seriously replying to a fourteen year old

>>	Bassetsquirrel Fri Dec 28 22:36:02 2012 No.3294084 >>3294056 Are you female? "lies about imaginary characters". please. "bombasting their lives with purple prose", i suppose you don't like fairy tales. This thread is now about fairy tales or silly women.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:38:02 2012 No.3294097 >>3294084 >Are you female? Seriously? Fuck off with this shit. It doesn't belong here.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:40:02 2012 No.3294105

>>3294071
>What is interesting about honesty and authenticity in and of itself

Nothing is interesting in itself or of itself.

>Art gets us closer to the true state of things by evoking sensation through a dance with the reader.

I'm okay with "art," whatever that means.

I'm not okay with all it's expressions, fictional lies being one of them.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:42:02 2012 No.3294110

>>3294105

Still believing in grand narratives, are we? Go read a book.

Art isn't about 'facts'. Understanding 'truth' from a human vantage point is much more complex than that. That you think otherwise betrays you as either juvenile or exceedingly naive

Bassetsquirrel Fri Dec 28 22:44:02 2012 No.3294122

>>3294071
Art is crap. A representation of beauty from the vantage point of staring at the wall, sitting or laying face within the pages of a book. Is this life? I think not. Art is a bit of frivolity, something less important than a well turned ass or energetic romp. Art is pretend, pretension, a method of separating classes where no separation exists outside of advantage. It is useful for everyone to craft some form of art more than sit idly by and ponder someone else's meaning, someone else's vision. Art is crap.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:45:02 2012 No.3294133 File: 26 KB, 243x295, gilbert4_243x295.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3294122 >Art is crap. Ah, a fellow fan of pic related!

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:45:02 2012 No.3294125 >>3294105 >fictional lies That makes no sense. There may be fictional truths and non-fictional lies, but fiction can never lie.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:46:02 2012 No.3294134 >>3294122 I feel like I might have lost 20 IQ points from just reading that

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:49:02 2012 No.3294144 >>3294122 Leaving the thread now. Have fun with it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:49:02 2012 No.3294147 >>3294110 > Understanding 'truth' from a human vantage point...Art Not even philosophy or science are this pretentious. Art is a meaningless term. I'm talking about fiction being awful, no exceptions.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:50:02 2012 No.3294153 >>3294125 >but fiction can never lie. Fictional characters tell lies to each other. Also you are autistic.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:53:02 2012 No.3294163 >>3294147 It doesn't pretend to be able to arrive at any conclusions, unlike the latter. Kill yourself. Seriously.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:55:02 2012 No.3294169

The act of writing fiction is really puzzling.

The author is constantly telling lies, over and over. The feelings his characters have are pure fabrications. Their conversations are completely contrived and up to him.

It's worse than a day dream or mental fantasy. It's something really terrible and grotesque.

Of course I like stories and fiction. But I can't respect authors anymore, they really are terrible human beings for being able to write fiction.

The better they write the more disingenuous and obscene they must be.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:56:02 2012 No.3294172 >>3294169 Why does writing lies make you a terrible human being? Why are you pulling that moral judgment out of your ass?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:57:02 2012 No.3294176 File: 247 KB, 483x243, Parker Gasp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3294169

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:57:02 2012 No.3294177 ITT: Pollock was an evil man for not being a photographer

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:58:02 2012 No.3294180 Still don't get the theory/praxis division? Are you twelve?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 22:58:02 2012 No.3294182 so much navelgazing in this thread

Bassetsquirrel Fri Dec 28 22:59:02 2012 No.3294185

>>3294169
Our culture has too much time for art and very little to say. We ourselves here are masturbating over this topic for lack of anything more meaningful. At the same time life is as simple and as complicated as we wish it to be. Meaning is disappearing from life let alone art. Those that can make/craft something with their hands are the stewards of our future. Art is crap.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:00:02 2012 No.3294188 >>3294185 >building legos is important >art is crap >why? >because I say so >but if I feel differently? >you're wrong.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:02:02 2012 No.3294195 Writing is the only form of art that carries the obscene side of deception and contrivance. A painting is always itself. It doesn't try to bamboozle.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:03:02 2012 No.3294199 >>3294153 Missing the point entirely.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:04:02 2012 No.3294202

>>3294188

This isn't about art being useful or not. It's simply a fact that fiction is obscene and full of lies.

The reader isn't the one that is really taken advantage of, the writer is the real victim.

The process itself is obscene. The writer is lying to himself more than his audience.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:04:02 2012 No.3294203 >>3294195 The text is always itself. It doesn't try to bamboozle. The reaction to a text is as disparate from reader to reader as the reaction to a painting. Try again.

>>	Paul Of Tarsus !!vvf7F4tv4Fn Fri Dec 28 23:04:02 2012 No.3294206 File: 36 KB, 600x433, 1220907102882.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Fiction doesn't need you to enjoy it, and you hate her for it. Sour grapes if ever the fox ate them.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:05:02 2012 No.3294208

>>3294202
>The process itself is obscene. The writer is lying to himself more than his audience.

I've had to write short stories for school. I always had to take a shower after and clean myself.

Writing fiction is one of the dirties things a person can do.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:05:02 2012 No.3294209 >>3294202 Why are lies obscene? Why are facts lacking obscenity? I have no idea what you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:06:02 2012 No.3294216 >>3294209 >I have no idea what you're talking about. This has been obvious since your first incoherent post and your tangents about "art"

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:07:02 2012 No.3294221
File: 24 KB, 329x339, 1353692677823.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Fiction isn't something you can put down in entirety. Yes, you can put down Fifty Shades of Grey, but not the entire genre itself.

I'll assume OP read some stupid book, loved it, told /lit/ about it, and was criticized.

That's my guess, but what ACTUALLY led OP to this conclusion?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:09:02 2012 No.3294228 >>3294216 Feel free to answer the question at any time. I'm here all night.

>>	Bassetsquirrel Fri Dec 28 23:09:02 2012 No.3294230 >>3294206 Wonderful. Another book hoarder. Do you sit on an imaginary pedestal of books as you carry yourself through a world that you can't understand and rejects you. You have your wonderful books.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:09:02 2012 No.3294232 >>3294221 >but what ACTUALLY led OP to this conclusion? Go try writing some fiction. Tell me how you feel after writing and reading a paragraph.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:10:02 2012 No.3294237 OP is right. I masturbate in a mirror

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:13:02 2012 No.3294255 File: 45 KB, 640x470, birsd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3294232 >Tell me how you feel after writing and reading a paragraph.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:14:02 2012 No.3294259
File: 7 KB, 256x192, hydepark.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3294232
Oh, so OP tried to be like his favorite author (Ayn Rand I presume) and tried to write something fictional "but with a message".

He soon realized that WRITING IS DIFFICULT and that IT'S NOT SOMETHING OP CAN DO WELL.

He promptly gave up and cursed an entire genre for his own hardships.

We've got Hemingway level edginess here (without the coolness of Hemingway)

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:14:02 2012 No.3294261 >>3294228 >Feel free to answer the question at any time. Re-read OP's post. All the information you need is there. >I'm here all night. Hopefully it won't take you that long to figure it out

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:16:02 2012 No.3294268 >>3294232 Haha, you just gave yourself in, OP.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:17:02 2012 No.3294275 >>3294232 Wonderful. Cleansed. Wiser.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:17:02 2012 No.3294271

>>3294259

It's more like becoming aware of the obscene and absurd gyrations your body is making while you have sex.

Once you stand back and realize how goofy and comical you are being the whole scenario loses it's authenticity.

The heavy breathing, the grunting, the weird faces and the back and forth repetitive thrusts are completely ridiculous upon reflection.

The same applies for writing fiction, once you step back and realize what you are doing, the whole endeavor seems contrived and even obscene.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:17:02 2012 No.3294270 >>3294261 You haven't explained why lies in fiction are obscene. You've merely claimed it. I'll keep saying this until you justify yourself.

Paul Of Tarsus !!vvf7F4tv4Fn Fri Dec 28 23:18:02 2012 No.3294277
File: 724 KB, 1280x2000, 121900550984.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3294230

You assume much but understand little. Fiction is a transmission of imagination, the most intimate expression of a person. Every person carries some creative spark that wishes to be appreciated (barring a social disorder) To hate fiction is to hate yourself.

<- iron man is you
<-/lit/ is thor

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:19:02 2012 No.3294282 >>3294275 >Wonderful. Cleansed. Wiser. Then you aren't looking at yourself honestly during the act. Also post the alleged paragraph you wrote.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:19:02 2012 No.3294281

>>3294271
If you write to impress others, yes, it seems contrived.

But if you write to impress yourself and as an escape it's quite sublime and enjoyable. Some people just happen to be good at it- just like sex. Clearly you are not very good at sex. And a lot more people are better at sex than they are at writing.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:21:02 2012 No.3294293 >>3294277 Expressing yourself via fiction is like expressing yourself via rape or deceit. Visual art is fine. non-fiction is fine. Fiction is just too infantile and obscene and can never reach authenticity.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:21:02 2012 No.3294294 File: 179 KB, 373x327, 1356754853539.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3294009 Know what also sucks? Music.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:22:02 2012 No.3294299 >>3294282 Or maybe you aren't. Not him btw.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:22:02 2012 No.3294300 >>3294282 Stop pretending to know whether or not I'm looking at myself honestly. Art can instruct life in the same way that theory can instruct praxis. This is babby shit. I'm not about to post my shitty writing so you can claim it's exactly that

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:23:02 2012 No.3294302 >>3294293 >can never reach authenticity I literally cannot name all of the books that have clearly surpassed your level of "authenticity" by just imagination alone.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:24:02 2012 No.3294304 >>3294232 PLEASE POST YOUR PARAGRAPH

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:27:02 2012 No.3294309 I have an aversion to lying and an attraction to truth. Fiction tends towards the former not the latter.

Paul Of Tarsus !!vvf7F4tv4Fn Fri Dec 28 23:29:02 2012 No.3294311
File: 339 KB, 1267x792, 123965956720.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3294293
A fool and a wise man stood on the edge of a cliff. the fool got close to the edge and was pulled away by the wise man.
The wise man said in an instructional tone "if you fall, you will die". The fool thought for a second and argued with the wise man that to fall would not be fatal. The wise man said once more "if you fall, you will die". The fool, being a fool argued still until his frustration could no longer be contained. The fool threw himself from the cliff and as he fell to the rocks below he shouted " i told you i wouldn't die!".

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:30:02 2012 No.3294315 >>3294309 >still believes in grand narratives

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:30:02 2012 No.3294316 I have never masturbated to pictures of myself, but I do stand in front of a mirror sometimes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:31:02 2012 No.3294318 >>3294315 >>still believes in grand narratives What do you mean?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:32:02 2012 No.3294320 >>3294318 Go read some theory.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:32:02 2012 No.3294322 >>3294311 This never happened.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:33:02 2012 No.3294325 >>3294320 >Go read some theory. I want to know what you mean by it and how you interpret it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:33:02 2012 No.3294326 >>3294311 Also if you don't fall you will die. If you don't fall you will die.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:34:02 2012 No.3294328 >>3294325 If you don't even recognize the term, I won't be able to explain it or the ideas behind it on 4chan.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:34:02 2012 No.3294329 What's wrong with masturbating to pictures of yourself?

>>	Paul Of Tarsus !!vvf7F4tv4Fn Fri Dec 28 23:35:02 2012 No.3294332 File: 296 KB, 1600x1200, 1237778676100.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3294322 Fiction is and will always be. You are, yet will not. Which is more real?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:37:03 2012 No.3294334 File: 31 KB, 570x300, mfw master.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3294332 I am a transient truth. Fiction is perpetual a lie.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:37:03 2012 No.3294333

>>3294332
For some definition of always that assumes the universe won't end or that the minds in which fiction exists will never become extinct.

You sound like this really gay "buddhist" I knew who would say really vague things that sounded like they might be true but did not stand up very well once you thought about them for a minute

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:38:03 2012 No.3294337 >>3294334 Wrong. The self is an illusion.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:39:03 2012 No.3294338 File: 31 KB, 570x300, mfw master.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3294337 >replying to an illusion.

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:41:03 2012 No.3294341

>>3294338
Well, it's an illusion doing it, too.

I didn't say it wasn't enjoyable interacting with illusions. "I" (for a definition of me that doesn't imply I'm a distinct entity with some concrete separation between myself and the rest of the universe) still involve fapping even though it's not sex.

>>	Paul Of Tarsus !!vvf7F4tv4Fn Fri Dec 28 23:41:03 2012 No.3294342 File: 42 KB, 528x714, 1334891289492.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3294333 If you fall, you will die. Keep arguing if you want, it just proves you to be a simpleton.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:42:03 2012 No.3294343 >>3294341 *still enjoy

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:51:03 2012 No.3294367 Why is a girl that old doing primary-school math in a classroom?

Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:58:03 2012 No.3294392

There's nothing wrong with masturbating to pictures of yourself when you're as hot as I am. jk,
but really though, hardly any art is concretedly real, each peice is riddled with lies. Some art is 100%lies right down to the physics of light. Yet it is beautiful.
Allowing your emotions to be swayed merely by what is and is not true shows how feeble a human you actually are...so petty, so sad.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 28 23:59:03 2012 No.3294393 >>3294367 That's not primary school math, but I can say for sure she is no mathematician. She writes her x's all wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 00:07:03 2012 No.3294400 >>3294393 >>3294367 >implying she not just posed there and wrote perhaps just that last part that she is copying, if any

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 00:28:03 2012 No.3294439 >>3294367 /sci/entist lurking hier >that old doing primary-school math is a classroom Yeah sure il/lit/erate, that is calculus II >inb4 hate, who teaches that kind of integrals at primary school?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 00:30:03 2012 No.3294444 >>3294439 The formatting of this post hurts my head

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 00:34:03 2012 No.3294455 >>3294444 >4444 toasting from iphone, not even native speaker

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 00:35:03 2012 No.3294458 >>3294009 You could use this same argument for playing music, meditating, sitting on the beach, etc etc.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 00:38:03 2012 No.3294477 >>3294439 What, they don't tech integrals in preschool where you live? >Americans

Anonymous Sat Dec 29 00:39:03 2012 No.3294479

>>3294342
That picture is such a load of shit, it's ridiculous.

Not every successful person sets out to impress society or be its slave, that's just stupid.

Just look at John Kennedy Toole or any other successful author that doesn't completely sell out or try to appease people.

Also, "success" is pretty arbitrary, and someone is only as successful as they see themselves really, if you feel content doing nothing, so be it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 00:43:03 2012 No.3294488 >>3294479 John Kennedy Toole tried desperately to get his novel published by a major house. He killed himself when he wasn't popularly accepted. What a shit example

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 00:44:03 2012 No.3294489 File: 108 KB, 599x760, 1812b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3294479 Settle down kid.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 00:52:03 2012 No.3294511 What's so great about writing the truth? Seems awfully boring to me. I'd rather hear one extravigant lie than a million senseless truths. Fiction is not fact, and that, that is what makes it exraordinary.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 00:58:03 2012 No.3294523 >>3294479 Geez, it's not like the picture is a serious propaganda poster that is being used to teach children. Cool down.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 01:01:03 2012 No.3294529 >>3294479 assblasted

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 01:05:03 2012 No.3294540 >>3294529 Yeah, nah. they're both idiots

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 29 01:10:03 2012 No.3294557 File: 40 KB, 142x165, 1345832646758.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] It can be narcissistic or it can be selfless, completely depends on your perspective I think the OP is having some failure in the creativity department

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/lit/ - Literature