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/lit/ - Literature


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3285582 No.3285582[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

hey /lit/, today I read a little of "finnegans wake"

>mfw what the flying dick i am reading

extract: Then Nuvoletta reflected for the last time in her little long life and she made up all her myriads of drifting minds in one. She cancelled all her engauzements. She climbed over the bannistars; she gave a childy cloudy cry: Nuée! Nuée! A lightdress fluttered. She was gone. And into the river that had been a stream (for a thousand of tears had gone eon her and come on her and she was stout and struck on dancing and her muddied name was Missisliffi) there fell a tear, a singult tear, the loveliest of all tears (I mean for those crylove fables fans who are 'keen' on the pretty-pretty commonface sort of thing you meet by hopeharrods) for it was a leaptear. But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

also: books that are really difficult to read threat(any language)

>> No.3285777

>>3285582
Nuvoletta obviously is dying and is slowly losing her ability to vocalize in a rational manner. How is that difficult?

>> No.3285784

>>3285777
ITT: Millions of people staring into a puddle and claiming they see an ocean, for fear of seeming silly.

>> No.3285785

i tried listening to a finnegans wake audiobook once before i knew finnegans wake was just a bunch of shit and was like wtf

>> No.3285788

>>3285777
so why didn't he just say that? if some kid in an english 101 class handed in that paragraph you would give it an f and tell him to stop being "wordy"

>> No.3285799

>>3285791
ITT: Metaphors involving the observation of bodies of water.

>> No.3285791

>>3285784
ITT: Millions of people staring into an ocean and claiming to see a puddle, for fear of seeming impressible.

>> No.3285803

>>3285788
Raskolnikov killed a lady and wasn't too content with his decision.
>So why didn't Dostoyevsky just say that? If some kid in an English 101 class handed in that book you would give it an F and tell him to stop being "wordy."

>> No.3285806

>>3285791

>> No.3285810

>>3285803
crime and punishment was just long it wasn't "wordy", it's boring and preachy but certainly quite readable

>> No.3285811

>>3285788

>divorcing form from content

Go back to grade school

>> No.3285824

Satan was buttmad at God because his pride could not bear being a subordinate
>>So why didn't Milton just say that? If some kid in an English 101 class handed in that book you would give it an F and tell him to stop being "wordy."

>> No.3285827

That passage sounds really nice.. I imagine the appeal of reading finnegans wake is half for enjoyment of the playful prose, and the rest is the hard task of interpreting it.. I think I'm going to try and read it in like 20 years or so, when I've hopefully read enough to understand a quarter of the obscure references..

>> No.3285834

>>3285777
what a shit sentence

>> No.3285880

the final bosses of /lit/ are Petersburg, Zettel's Traum and Finnegans Wake.

>> No.3285896

OP here

btw non english speakers get challenge x2

>> No.3285952
File: 20 KB, 200x309, InfiniteJest.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3285952

Not that hard to read, but very, very lemony narration, and lots of characters.

>> No.3285958
File: 87 KB, 300x300, Miserables.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3285958

>>3285896

... so ... fucking ... long ... so... many ... characters ...

>> No.3285961

Plain English translation

Then Nuvoletta reflected for the last time in her life and she made up her mind. She cancelled all her engagements. She climbed over the banister; she gave a childish cry: Cloud! Cloud! Her dress fluttered. She was gone. And she cried and she was fat and she started dancing and her name was Mississippi. The rest is incomprehensible.

>> No.3285966
File: 13 KB, 300x450, Avalee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3285966

>>3285896

Option 1) you hate the main character and just hope she would just die already

Option 2) you actually understand that the the main character's pain and how she and every body else ever are complete selfish assholes with no spine, and you just hope everything ever dies.

>> No.3285970 [DELETED] 

>>3285880
maybe fw but the anatomy of melancholy definitely
how appropriate

>> No.3285972
File: 166 KB, 1125x1500, LOtR.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3285972

> why the fuck should I care?
> who are all those people?

>> No.3285977

I don't understand why anyone considers this deliberate obfuscation to be profound. He uses a bunch of nonsense words cobbling together bits of various languages to make dumbass puns and a completely incoherent text, and people are still masturbating over it trying to analyse this troll garbage. Fuck Joyce for creating this bullshit. It's even more hilarious when you consider the fact that he worked on it FOR TWENTY-FIVE FUCKING YEARS. Give me twenty-five years to look up every word of my text in every language and I guarantee I could create something just as fucking dense as Wake.

>> No.3285982

>>3285977
yeah it's like it's a fun exercise to try and figure out wtf he's talking about but i'm not convinced there's any deep insight in there, just a trivia puzzle of obscure references

>> No.3285987

>>3285977
You're wrong, and you sound terribly immature.

Like a newborn faget you are. There, there.

>> No.3285994

>>3285982
You guys are really fucking pathetic. Typical idiot behavior, not understanding something, then saying shit like 'rargh rargh I could've done the same', or "he's trying to be obscure and confusing on purpose"

gtfo plz

>> No.3285993

>>3285987
Explain why I'm wrong, please.

>> No.3285995

>>3285977
look another guy who sees the emperor is naked. call the press.

>>3285982
>deep insight

why would there be deep insight?

>> No.3285999

>>3285972
A ring must be destroy because it has too much power
>
>>So why didn't Tolkier just say that? If some kid in an English 101 class handed in that book you would give it an F and tell him to stop being "wordy."

>> No.3286000

>>3285995
well i like to believe canonical texts have some kind of insight in them and aren't just hobbits and swiggly wigggle do dippsity

>> No.3286003

>>3285994
Uh, dude, he actually was DELIBERATELY TRYING TO BE OBSCURE YOU FUCKING GODDAMN IDIOT.

Here's a quote from the man himself:
"They say it's obscure. They compare it, of course, with Ulysses. But the action of Ulysses was chiefly during the daytime, and the action of my new work takes place chiefly at night. It's natural things should not be so clear at night, isn't it now?"

>> No.3286012

>>3285977

I would respect your lousy opinion if you had cited the part of Apes of God where Lewis parodies Joyce's style, but you didn't so I don't. You're not the first the think the things you do about FW pal.

BTW: this passage is obviously a reference to Ophelia, bellying one of Joyce's puerile obssessions with the play Hamlet, which is also a focal point of the first or second part of Ulysses.

>> No.3286013

>>3286000
just because a text doesn't get all tao te ching on you doesn't mean it's just genre fiction for escapists.

stop looking at literature like they're just a bunch of encrypted fortune cookies. jesus.

>> No.3286014
File: 36 KB, 512x572, 2deep4u.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3286014

>>3286003
>DELIBERATELY TRYING TO BE OBSCURE YOU FUCKING GODDAMN IDIOT.

>> No.3286017

>>3286012
Lol, where did I imply that I was the first one to think these things? I didn't come here screaming that I'd received a vision from the heavens and I finally knew the truth about Wake. I simply stated my opinion.

>> No.3286018

>>3286014
I just want to say that Finnegans Wake is not deep.

It is complicated but that's not the same as deep.

It takes forever to read but once you're deciphering it you realize there's absolutely nothing complex about the book. The most difficult language masks the simplest of ideas.

Hands down the biggest failure in the history of western literature.

>> No.3286020

>>3286014
Yes, Finnegans Wake is the ultimate 32deep64u book. In the most negative, meme-y sense. If Joyce were alive today, he wouldn't have written any books, he'd have just trolled /lit/ all day.

>> No.3286025 [DELETED] 

>>3286018
0/10

>> No.3286024

>>3285993
You're like a faget that's climbed a few mountains, you have some experience. You haven't climbed any mountains to their peak, yet you're going around town saying what can and can't be done. You distrust and talk down anything that you don't understand because your ego is so fucking small. You probably believe that there are no peaks, let alone that people jump off them and fly around like Joyce did.

>> No.3286027

>>3286024
OH, so there's no actual reason I'm wrong, you just disagree with me. Ok.

>> No.3286036

>>3286025
I mean, he's kind of right. The brilliance of Finnegans Wake comes from the sheer masterpiece that is the construction of the prose, not anything about the story. Only plebes read for plot.

>> No.3286047

amateur hour again

>all books are shit, how can you not see that, i know everything, it's just an opinion

You're not fucking entitled to an opinion. Too many retards on here think they are.

>> No.3286052

Don't you get it, faggot? Finnegans Wake is actually a profound statement about the end of literature. Joyce went out of his way to strip every iota of emotion, passion, and spirit from the act of artistic creation, and spent decades laboring over a meaningless literary puzzle book, creating a conglomeration of facile references and allusions that can be "solved", staccato-style, by any bourgeois plebeian who has taken a class with a dilettantish fraud like Harold Bloom. It is this very disjointed vapidity, this quantitative density of nothingness, which itself leads the nihilistic, scholastic student of modern letters to the qualitative realization that his way of intuiting art is fundamentally flawed. By perfecting the literary form as it existed in his day - the modernist novel, a concatenation of allusions and inside jokes for a demi-learned bourgeois intelligentsia - he was able to demonstrate its hollowness. He honed it to its ultimate conclusion, the pinnacle of pointless pregnancy, and thus laid bare its internal mechanism to all those who would see.

When he talked about bequeathing an enigma to critics for decades to come, he didn't mean that no one would beat his high score and unlock every reference to dead authors and Irish geography. He meant that no one would scry the true authorial intent of his masterpiece, for at least a generation.

>> No.3286054

>>3286036
this.

>> No.3286057

>>3286047
What? Everyone IS entitled to an opinion. They aren't entitled to state those opinions as facts. You're just buttmad because you wasted all that time reading Wake and when you tried to talk about it around the hot bitch from your lit class, you made an ass out of yourself.

>> No.3286061

>>3286027
You're right buddy. You are right as the sun.

Now please shut the fuck and go play with your toys.

>> No.3286064

>>3286061
I'm still counting this as a victory, bitch.

>> No.3286065

>> I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

dat blackface phonetic spelling!

>> No.3286066

>>3286052

You forgot the real reason why the book is brilliant - everything you said about the book is true, but its opposite is true as well. It exists as a near-flawless stylistic conception piece. It's a mirror of the vacancy of beauty, an ode to that beauty and its depth in mucky water. That it works on both levels in a profound way lends credence to its merit and the years of study that have gone into it.

Also, someone said earlier that it's Joyce's rape confessional, which might be another interesting lens through which to read it

>> No.3286069
File: 5 KB, 114x160, th_6gfuhy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3286069

>>3286057

>> No.3286068 [DELETED] 

>>3286057
lol

>>3286036
i love how you defend that bullshit with "oh but fw was really this brilliant work" and then skid right the fuck into this shit-eating non sequitur about lel only pelbz read4plot get a lyfe man lele

>> No.3286071

>>3286057
Nigga plz

Everyone being entitled to an opinion is why our culture is so fucked at the moment.

Go back to watching the Kardashians and let us have a real discussion here.

Faggat.

>> No.3286083

>>3286071
>Everyone being entitled to an opinion is why our culture is so fucked at the moment.

I actually think the exact opposite is true.

>> No.3286086

>>3286064
Chalk it up as whatever you want you delusional piece of shit.

>> No.3286087 [DELETED] 

>>3286071
fascist detected

>> No.3286090

>>3286086
Sorry that you can't support your arguments, bro. You'll get 'em next time, I'm sure.

>> No.3286115

So why haven't any of you naysayers responded to the positive claims itt?

>> No.3286120

>>3286115
Wait. Which...side is the positive and which side is the negative?

>> No.3286128

>>3286120

OP and co. are the naysayers.

Go ahead and respond to these posts:

>>3286052
>>3286066

>> No.3286136

>>3286071
I hate the word "entitled."

Don't you think everyone has a right to an opinion?

>> No.3286140

>>3286090
OP here ok troll piece of shit

"the river that had been a stream" here the author talk in a fashion way about a river, wich implicate the existance of water wich is obviouly a way to tell how Nuvoletta want to be purified before the act of dieing, this is why after he talk about the tear as sign of self purification.

I found a deep meaning YOU PROVE ME WRONG

>> No.3286147

>>3286140
Make your observation coherent and I might.

>Implying I didn't win this battle just by making you respond.

>> No.3286154

>>3286128
I'm ok with both of those statements, and I don't think those necessarily conflict with what I'm saying. The book is a deliberate obfuscatory mess, and I guess therein lies what Joyce was trying to do. I'm not saying the book has no merit, but it's also not just 2deep4me, like a lot of pretentious fags on /lit/ would have everyone believe.

>> No.3286152

>>3286036
> Only plebes read for plot.

Even bigger plebs read for style. Form over function? Give me a fucking break, you fucking hipster.

>> No.3286157

>>3285582
> finnegans wake

YHBT. HAND.

>> No.3286159

>>3286147
what that's?? oh yes, is the sound of you losing meanwhile the hole in your ass just keep expanding and expanding...

>> No.3286160

>>3286052
>authorial intent

>> No.3286166

>>3286154

The book is anything but a mess. You still don't get it. It's almost painfully brilliant and exquisitely structured. It seems like it remains too deep for you.

Have you finished the book?

>> No.3286176

>>3286166
Ok, mess was a poor word choice on my part. Remove the word mess from my post and respond again, if you don't mind.

>> No.3286178
File: 243 KB, 500x744, 1355638664522.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3286178

>>3286152
>he thinks "form over function" is a meaningful statement when talking about art

pic related it's you

>> No.3286180

>>3286159
I mean, I don't understand what the fuck you said. So, as soon as you re-type your "deeply meaningful" observation, I'll obliterate you with my counterattack pussy.

>> No.3286190

>>3286180
you lost... hard, acept it and i may handle you "healerbutt magic cream" next time

>> No.3286206

>>3286190
>Troll baits dumbass into getting mad and responding
>Troll loses

I think you're the one whose got this backwards, mate. STOP FUCKING FEEDING INTO HIS BULLSHIT YOU IGNORAMUS.

>> No.3286207

>>3286176

>The book is deliberately obfuscatory, and I guess therein lies what Joyce was trying to do.

That's a very small part of what Joyce was trying to do. You're being deliberately narrow with your scope of the work.

>I'm not saying the book has no merit,

Glad we agree

>but it's also not just 2deep4me, like a lot of pretentious fags on /lit/ would have everyone believe.

You're claiming the book is uninteresting, that it's only aim is muddying the waters. I'd argue it's still '2deep4u'

>> No.3286213

>>3286207
Not claiming that's it's SOLE intent, otherwise I wouldn't say it has merit. Did you not see the part where I said I agreed with the points you both made in your initial posts. I'm talking about ONE ASPECT of it.

>> No.3286214

>>3286178

Of course it fucking is, you mouth-breathing troglodyte.

Everything that exists has a reason for existing.

(In the case of 'Finnegans Wake', that reason is to gently stroke the hipster e-peen of sophomore (in both senses) maleducated rejects of modern society.)

>> No.3286222

>>3286206
>>3286206
i you have the last word arguing with a troll then YOU won, not the troll

>impling i mad in real life as in the keyboard

>> No.3286224
File: 827 KB, 350x262, 1354916735224.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3286224

>>3286214
>Everything that exists has a reason for existing.

>> No.3286226

>>3286222
No, if you respond to a troll AT ALL, you've already lost. No matter if you "win" the argument, because that isn't important to the troll, all they want is attention. You still fail.

>> No.3286230

>>3286213

I'm glad we agree it's a great book.

You won't fully appreciate its brilliance with a single read or even a couple, though. There's a fuckload to digest.

>> No.3286232

>>3286226
[citation needed]

>> No.3286246

>>3286230
I've not read the whole thing and I don't plan on doing so any time soon. I don't enjoy it. It is what it is, as a work, but it's just not for me. The only time I really ever look at it is whenever I have to reference some of it for a discussion.

>> No.3286248

>>3286226
are you the dungeon master who set the rules of the internet?? duh

>> No.3286250

>>3286248
No, I just have common sense.

>> No.3286251

>>3286250
Dude, this is /lit/, no one here even knows what that means.

>> No.3286253

>>3286250

comon sense my balls

/threat

>> No.3286255

>Oh sweet. Let me read this 2deep4me book so I can prove to my friends I read it

>> No.3286257
File: 46 KB, 566x302, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3286257

>>3286255

>> No.3286261

>>3286246
Honestly I can appreciate that, it would be a shame if everyone held the same values in regard to literature.

Honestly my feelings wouldn't be hurt if I could keep Joyce to myself, in relative or absolute obscurity. Having a firm grounding in a particular artist I like and others don't gives me a shot at new perspectives in conversation or my own work. Maybe, too, because I'm selfish. Either way, I appreciate our difference because it gives the entire field of literature more dimension.

People who expect their favorite artist to be universally lauded are typically assholes who can't imagine anyone disagreeing with them. If you want consensus, please pick up a math textbook.

>> No.3286262

>>3286224
>i'll post one of the thousands of gifs I collected during my spare time and show him off

>> No.3286266

>>3286246

You're under no obligation to read it or like it.

I just wanted to clarify that the book is not this vacant wank-fest it's assumed to be.

>> No.3286282

>>3286262
i don't have to show him off, he's already done that himself by being an idiot.

>> No.3286285

>>3286266
>I just wanted to clarify that the book is not this vacant wank-fest it's assumed to be.
Okay. Like, that's totally your opinion.

>> No.3286290

>>3286282
Evidently he meant all literature has a purpose, you pedantic autist.

>> No.3286294

>>3286285

I've explained in detail why this is so in the thread.

You're welcome to critique my reading of the book.

>> No.3286300

It may not be a VACANT wank-fest, but it's still a wank-fest. Or, maybe the book itself is just wanky. The fest comes in with the pseudo-intellectual wannabe autists.

>> No.3286303

>>3286224

> Thinks an animated gif a meaningful response to anything.

Learn to lose gracefully, dude.

>> No.3286683

>>3285810
>boring

dohohohohohoho

>> No.3286688

>>3285977
i'm not nearly well read enough to realize even a fraction of Joyce's references. However, I find that his writing is in some ways similar to my thought processes. It's the closest stream of consciousness i can find to what goes on in my head, albeit sans obscure references. I see niether the puddle nor the ocean. I see myself

also this is first post on /lit/