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/lit/ - Literature

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3262550 No.3262550 [Reply] [Original]

Are there some poems that, if they were written and presented by a freshman or amateur poet, would have been laughed at and classed as tacky/terrible/etc, but because they were written by famous poets or very old poets they're seen as brilliant?

How much does context matter.

>> No.3262556

Yes

>> No.3262554

No

>> No.3262559

Maybe

>> No.3262563

Well, Joyce has some poems/lyrics in Finnegans Wake that could come under that category. Not many consider him a poet at all, however, I think there is underlying wit in his poetry. But each to their own.

>> No.3262573

A freshman girl I know posted an excerpt from some Wilfred Owen thing and people thought it was hers and told her it was crap. This is because it was crap, but no one would have made the complaint, probably, if she'd tacked on the man's name at the bottom.

>> No.3262613

see >language poets.

>> No.3262651

People laugh at and pity world-famous violinists if they play behind the subway parking lot in disguise, it's been tested. Same here. Context is EVERYTHING most of the time.

>> No.3262655

>>3262573
I like to do this with well known Twain excerpts. Doesn't change the premise, brings way more joy if done right.

>> No.3262660

Auden's entire career

>> No.3262662

I read a post on here a while ago that was of the opinion that writing quality tends to go downhill once an author becomes famous. This is (ostensibly) because they're not trying to prove themselves, they're on a pedestal so editors or whatever won't tell them to rewrite things as much and the audience will project meaning that isn't there as they assume it's deliberate as it was in a previous work.
I think there's probably some truth to this but it's also quite a wide generalisation.
Of course context is also important.

>> No.3262669

>>3262662
>fake suicide
>posthumous rockstar status
>sit on private island snickering and having sex with dollar sign bags all day

>> No.3262679
File: 54 KB, 889x886, ELIOT LOVECRAFT MOORCOCK.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3262679

OBVIOUSLY, YES.

EXEMPLI GRATIA: ALL POETRY BY e e cummings, AND ALL POETRY BY THOMAS STEARNS ELIOT.

>> No.3262680

>>3262679
you should have capitalized his name too. I want to see people rage. Rawr.

>> No.3262731

>>3262651

>People laugh at and pity world-famous violinists if they play behind the subway parking lot in disguise, it's been tested.

Lol, naw man. Naw. You got that whole picture wrong.

>> No.3262736

>>3262731
itseemsihavetrickedyou.tiff

>> No.3263067

>>3262662
interesting theory

>> No.3263089

What was that essay called by the French guy.. creator and the creation was it?

>> No.3263092

>>3263089
Death and the author. That was it.

Pertains to this quite strongly buds.

>> No.3263093

>>3263092
sounds interesting, I'll look that up, thanks

>> No.3263095

Yeah, I think if you posted even one of shakespeare's lesser-known sonnets as an image (prevent googling the text) on facebook and asked for critique people would tell you it's poor quality.

>> No.3263127

>>3263095

i'm not sure about that. i don't think the general public has the ability to really recognise good writing, so they fall for cliches and sentimentalities.

>> No.3263163

I'd say that context matters very much. This reminds me of Pierre Menard, Author of Quixote. which, if you haven't read, you should because it is very relevant to this subject.

>> No.3263207

>>3263127
You're underestimating peoples' desires to firstly have their shitty opinions heard and secondly put down others' work.

>> No.3263208

>>3262679

I didn't know people actually thought TS Eliot wrote decent poetry.

>> No.3263259

>>3263208
He was capable of producing poetry that doesn't make you physically uncomfortable and embarrassed when reading it, so he's probably in the top ten of all time as not many professional poets can even manage that.

Still though he's some cringe worthy shit.
"the women come and go, Talking of Michaelangelo" ugh

>> No.3263272

>>3262651
> behind the subway parking lot in disguise

what am I even reading here

>> No.3263273

>>3263259
what's so bad about that?

>> No.3263298

I many times imagine whilst reading a book what kind of reaction some passage or other would get here of someone posted it as his own work.

>> No.3263299

Perhaps.

I would consider precedence more responsible than context, though.

Deviation lends dimension.

>> No.3263348

>>3262651
Joshua Bell.

>> No.3263355

On a similar note, could anyone shed some light on how Carol Ann Duffy has managed to get away with writing such awful poems?

>> No.3263358

>>3262651
>People laugh and pity world-famous violinists if they play behind the subway parking lot in disguse, it's been tested.
"Oh look at that poor man. He plays the violin so beautifully, he gave his life to his trade, now look at him. Poor chap, he should've got an engineering degree."

>>3262550
>Implying people know shit about most of the things they pass judgements on and don't base most of their opinions solely on other people's opinions.

>> No.3263366

>>3263358
Last line is true and it's quite annoying how often I see it.

>> No.3263696

>>3263358
I guess there's that factor, but even intellectuals who supposedly know about what they're passing judgement on do endorse quite a lot of shite.