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3220866 No.3220866 [Reply] [Original]

What's wrong with hedonism?

>> No.3220874

nothing. ignore the haters.

epicureans suck balls tho, ascetic dickwads.

cyrenaic school is where it's at.

>> No.3220877

Nothing really, do what you want

>> No.3220891

>>3220866
Pleasure isn't inherently good.

>> No.3220897

>>3220891
fuck inherent goodness, if that gives you pleasure.

>> No.3220899

>>3220897
Pleasure isn't valuable.

>> No.3220901

>>3220866
My conception of freedom. — The value of a thing sometimes does not lie in that which one attains by it, but in what one pays for it — what it costs us. I shall give an example. Liberal institutions cease to be liberal as soon as they are attained: later on, there are no worse and no more thorough injurers of freedom than liberal institutions. Their effects are known well enough: they undermine the will to power; they level mountain and valley, and call that morality; they make men small, cowardly, and hedonistic — every time it is the herd animal that triumphs with them. Liberalism: in other words, herd-animalization.

These same institutions produce quite different effects while they are still being fought for; then they really promote freedom in a powerful way. On closer inspection it is war that produces these effects, the war for liberal institutions, which, as a war, permits illiberal instincts to continue. And war educates for freedom. For what is freedom? That one has the will to assume responsibility for oneself. That one maintains the distance which separates us. That one becomes more indifferent to difficulties, hardships, privation, even to life itself. That one is prepared to sacrifice human beings for one’s cause, not excluding oneself. Freedom means that the manly instincts which delight in war and victory dominate over other instincts, for example, over those of “pleasure.” The human being who has become free — and how much more the spirit who has become free — spits on the contemptible type of well-being dreamed of by shopkeepers, Christians, cows, females, Englishmen, and other democrats. The free man is a warrior.

>> No.3220902

what if what gives you pleasure involves violence to others or theft of property

>> No.3220904

God I hate kids these days. Democracy can't collapse soon enough.

>> No.3220909

>>3220902
then you're a sadist or a marxist

what's your point

>> No.3220919

>>3220901
out of all the things to preserve from nietzsche, will to power is the worst, it's just vitalist hand waving

we know some things better now

>> No.3220928

>>3220909
well let's say everyone is permitted to be hedonist

don't we have a problem with serial killers, pedophiles, shoplifters, or others who get pleasure from random acts of violence?

one person's pursuit of pleasure interferes with others

what then

>> No.3220957

>>3220928
>well let's say everyone is permitted to be hedonist

they are

>don't we have a problem with serial killers, pedophiles, shoplifters, or others who get pleasure from random acts of violence?

what would be this problem?

>one person's pursuit of pleasure interferes with others

it should give you pleasure to cave these people's head in

>> No.3221197

>>3220866
Society would break down. Quality of life would decrease, everyone will become more un-happy.

>> No.3221222

all of us are hedonists, more or less, unconsciously

a true hedonism, for me, is only if it is applicable to my senses. an ear for an exceptional classical music, an eye for aesthetics etc.

>> No.3221224

>>3220919
Its from Twilight of the idols, pleb.

>> No.3221229

>>3220928
Uninformed view of what hedonism represents. But then again, this is 4chan. . . .

>> No.3221233

>>3221222
we're all hedonists but what seperates us is who tries to dominate their impulses and who let's their impulses dominate them without a care.

what's wrong with hedonism HMMMM maybe because we're trying to live in a society where we act in a civilized way (a paraphrase of something george said on seinfeld). because people living impulsively were generally barbarians where might was right. although we still have our hedonist backbones, morality, justice or whatever you want to call it has us evolved, or wanting to.

>> No.3221234

>>3221229
It's hedonism taken to its logical end. Whether or not you enjoy pleasure doesn't make you a hedonist. It's whether you think pleasure's presence makes something a moral good. So if you enjoy rape, and consider it pleasurable, it becomes morally good for you to rape, if you are a hedonist.

Or a utilitarian for that matter. Regardless of what exemptions Mill, Singer et al try to make. Utilitarians are really just people who justify rape and murder on the ground that it is fun.

>> No.3221236

>>3221197
>hedonism is wrong because utilitarianism is right

lol

>>3221222
sup freud

>> No.3221243

>>3221234
How old are you?

>> No.3221246
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3221246

>>3221197
>everyone will become more un-happy.
Until we adapt to live in our new, chaotic, post-apocalyptic, wild west cowboy-esque future.
It's all fun and games from there on out.

>> No.3221252

>>3221236
freud? really?

was I supposed to phrase the "unconsciously" in a different maneuver?

>> No.3221263

>>3221252
you basically just said, 'id lol'

>> No.3221261

>>3221243
27.

Was a philosophy major too.

I'm a nihilist.

>> No.3221269

>>3221263
meh, well, not what i was getting at. poor choice of words on my part then.

>>3221261
>philosophy major
>I'm a nihilist

you have failed us, princess.

>> No.3221274

>>3221269
>implying objective morality exists

>> No.3221278

>>3221274
oh, sorry, i misread "major" for "graduate"

what the fuck is wrong with me today.

anyway, there is still hope!

>> No.3221280

Pacification and weakness. It is only being seriously considered now since mechanization is a safety cushion, but still a facade for the most part.

>> No.3221282

>>3221274
>implying it doesn't

>> No.3221297

>>3221278
I graduated.

You seem to be under the impression that people who graduate from philosophy courses adopt the philosophies they studied, or that I'm a 'hurr durr nihilist'. Everyone I've met who has done philosophy ends up a relativist or nihilist-by-another-name, a moral non-cognitivist, or they realise all moral systems are nonsense and just get on with life, doing whatever they want. It's generally the stupidest, most naive liberal idiots who decide to consider themselves utilitarians or kantians.

>> No.3221303

>>3221282
It doesn't.

>> No.3221308

>>3221303
>still implying it doesn't

>> No.3221310

>>3221261
What school did you go to?

>> No.3221315

>>3221310
One in Australia.

>> No.3221332

It's no different than being an animal. Guided only by your rational bodily urges, you become a slave to them. Irrational restrictions(refraining from alcohol, abstinence from ejaculation, delayed gratification, fasting) placed on yourself then, become spiritual laws. You'll notice that most religions do practice these restrictions on their followers as a means of spiritual self control. It's basically a higher form of living. You'll feel fulfillment that you wouldn't otherwise feel, and won't fall into the downward spiral of desensitization and moral relativism.

Sticking by your principles and recognizing the limits of rational thought are important parts of becoming a fulfilled person.

If you want rational reasons, however, hedonism is a luxury that only the rich can normally practice.
>"I should fancy that the real tragedy of the poor is that they can afford nothing but self-denial. Beautiful sins, like beautiful things, are the privilege of the rich."

>> No.3221427

Those who are on top of the world are standing on the shoulders of the suffering masses. You either have to ignore or corrupt your morality circuit in order to live hedonistically. As long as you're fine with living amorally, go for it.

>> No.3221502

>>3221297
>It's generally the stupidest, most naive liberal idiots who decide to consider themselves utilitarians or kantians.

oh wow.

>> No.3221519 [DELETED] 

>all these people getting hedonism incorrect

Hedonism is the principle of pain vs. pleasure. If you go around making people suffer and you get stupidly drunk, then that is not hedonism because the suffering that you cause outweighs the pleasure you received.

>tl;dr you all failed philosophy 101

>> No.3221546

>>3221519
a serb and a croat are heatedly discussing racial tensions and such matters. an air-headed pacifist walks in, listens for a second, and has an epiphany. he jumps in on the conversation and asks "why can't you just love each other as brothers?". and in that moment, the serb and the croat engaged in a kind of solidarity as they looked at the pacifist like an idiot and asked each other "who is this idiot? where did he come from?"

you are this pacifist

>> No.3221566

>>3221519
so now hedonism means we are accounting for others, for suffering, and seek to maximize every person's pleasure? isn't that just utilitarianism?

>> No.3221583
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3221583

>>3221308

>> No.3221594

>>3221519
no one gives a fuck about its objective definition. the term itself has been used and can be used in various ways and forms, therefore i'd like for you to calm down, bub

>> No.3221605

>>3221594
that is not the definition of hedonism

>> No.3221637

>>3221605
it is, ala Mill. but now i realize, that wouldn't make it an 'objective' definition in general.

>> No.3221919

>>3220928
you may want to read any Utilitarian

>> No.3222069

There's more to life then just feeling good.

>> No.3222070

>>3221502
I include professors among those too.