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/lit/ - Literature

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3218009 No.3218009 [Reply] [Original]

Is suicide acceptable?
If you got a deadly disease
or
get the aknowledge that: life is meaningless.

>> No.3218020

why don't you ask that to a cow, dog or a dolphin whether they have ever seen a member of their species commit such a stupidity you call 'suicide'

>> No.3218025

http://oyc.yale.edu/philosophy/phil-176

>> No.3218029

>>3218020
That's arguably the dummest response I have ever read on this site.

>> No.3218030
File: 11 KB, 193x210, Nescio.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3218030

"I'm going to Friesland." "In the middle of the winter? "Japi nodded. "Do what?" He shrugged. "Do? Do nothing. You guys are so eerily wise: Everything has to have a reason and a purpose. I'm going to Friesland, do nothing, because of nothing. For no reason. Because I feel like it. "

>> No.3218035

Time to read the Myth of Sisyphus, OP

>> No.3218038

>>3218020
easy on the whiskey, you're not making any sense.

>> No.3218041

>>3218029
2deep4you, bub? do you have an opinion of your own?

>> No.3218046

>>3218035
yeah, this is what every certified doctor ordinates to a patient who caught "The Nihiliphys" or "Babby's first existential crisis"

>> No.3218049

to acknowledge that life is meaningless could as well be a huge relief. no reason for suicide whatsoever. if life is meaningless you cannot fail at life. so why be depressed? it's all good. enjoy art, literature, music and social activities. abandon all hope, all meaning, all purpose.

suicide is mainly egoistic. it's harder for the people left behind than the one killing himself.

>> No.3218053

>>3218046
Which is what OP has, yes?

>> No.3218054

>>3218038
are you really that mentally handicapped that you're unable to pick up the subtext of >>3218020?

>> No.3218056

>>3218049
A lot of people who commit suicide do it because they feel/fear that they are hurting or holding back people they love.
From the outside it may seem selfish though

>> No.3218060

>>3218053
i would believe so. i am not a fully educated doctor or "philosopher", though.

>> No.3218061

>>3218020
>implying a cow, dog or a dolphin is able to understand human speach, comprehend the question and hence respond adequately

>> No.3218070

It's acceptable if you are alone. I mean, completely alone, no family or loved ones. Otherwise, unless you are in extreme pain (physical or emotional), it's an egotistic act.

>> No.3218077

>>3218061
you fucking retard, learn2subtext

what i meant was, it's rather interesting that only the human species are contemplating suicides and killing themselves

>> No.3218079

would suicide be the ultimate proof for that thing called 'free will'?

to do something that is completely against your nature, intuition etc.?

>> No.3218089

>>3218030
brilliant story. that last sentence: Zijn reis naar Friesland is altijd onopgehelderd gebleven. how did they translate it to English?

>> No.3218092
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3218092

>>3218077
>thought it was quite a funny literal interpretation of the post
>see this

>> No.3218101

Read Heidegger and Gadamer hermeneutic and you'll se that a thing like : life is meaningless is totally absurd. To understand that : "life is meaningless" you have to grasp the meaningless meaning of life. Just listen to the friend you've got in your head buddy, has Heidegger said.

>> No.3218103

>>3218077
They are too dumb to contemplate metaphysical questions - much like you.

Btw, 'suicide' has been reported in the animal kingdom. It's not like they can get a fucking gun or jump off a bridge, but there are definite signs of self-destruction.

Deal with it

>> No.3218109

>>3218103

why couldn't an animal jump off a bridge? seriously.

>> No.3218114

>>3218089
Can't help you, i translated that quote from dutch.

>> No.3218115

>>3218109
It couldn't make a bridge.

>> No.3218116

>>3218092

do /b/tards actually think they can troll /lit/?

>> No.3218120

>>3218103
>There have been anecdotal reports of dogs, horses, and dolphins attempting suicide, but with little conclusive evidence.[6] There has been little scientific study of animal suicide.[7]

nice try there, bub.

>They are too dumb to contemplate metaphysical questions - much like you.
>much like you.

explain.

>> No.3218132

>>3218120
Most animals don't even pass the mirror test. They are sentient, but not really at the same level of consciousness as human beings. Only few animals show signs of being aware of living over a prolonged period of time (very rudimentary awareness and responses to this though), rather than being mere automatons who only register the present.

>> No.3218146

>>3218132
the point would be that if an animal doesn't have that awareness how could it know that by doing something it would end its life?

>> No.3218148

>>3218132
...point being? you still forgot to link me to a study/video on animals commit suicide

>who only register the present
this is a good thing though, we ought to learn from our subconscious friends

>> No.3218152

>>3218148
>implying unconsciousness is desirable

Better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied

>> No.3218164

>>3218152
it's ambivalent.

rimbaud told us to abandon all hope, for it is hope (longing) that makes un unhappy

>> No.3218170

>>3218164
solution: suicide

>> No.3218178

>>3218146
>by doing something
>something

do you have a specific example?

>>3218152
>implying unconsciousness is desirable

no, `the present` is desirable; you're taking subconsciousness out of the context

how's life under a rock by the way? read up on some zen

>> No.3218181

from kierkegaard to rimbaud. far away and so close (op:here)

>> No.3218184

>>3218170
nope.

baudealaire said: get drunk

>> No.3218200
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3218200

>>3218020

>> No.3218204

>>3218109
Because they lack the ability to reflect over how tall the bridge would need to be

>> No.3218210

>>3218204

an animal cannot figure out how to commit suicide.

an animal cannot commit suicide.

animals don't commit suicide.

period.

>> No.3218232

>>3218210
Of course it can figure it out. It just doesn't have the ability to reflect over such "complex" situations

>> No.3218757

God, the 13 in Op's post is glaring. Baby hav first existential woopsie? Faggot. Unh, the meaninglessness of it all, unh, alack-a-day, unh. If nothing meens nothing then why not becum nuthin?

Seriously, maybe you should kill yourself to get your genes out of this alreafy filthy pool

>> No.3218778

>>3218009
>Is suicide acceptable?
Well, it can be in certain situations. Despite all the religionfaggotry life isn't THAT great after all. You're gonna die some day anyway.
>If you got a deadly disease
If it's a deadly disease you don't need to suicide to die. But I got what you mean, a lifetime consisting basically of extreme pain isn't desirable.
>or
>get the aknowledge that: life is meaningless.
That's a pretty retarded reason to suicide. Life is (very probably) meaningless, but it isn't a bad thing. It's just a fact, and you still can enjoy your lifetime and have fun and maybe even be happy.

>> No.3218787

>>3218210
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUYzzzRLz_I
Does this count?

>> No.3218802

Everyone in this thread has an alive human bias

>> No.3218806

>>3218802
Care to elaborate?

>> No.3218815

>Is suicide acceptable if you realize that life is meaningless
No, not unless you are suffering an unbearable amount.

>> No.3218831

>>3218815

People generally don't kill themselves unless they are suffering an unbearable amount or are delusional from mental illness/severe depression

>> No.3218846

>>3218787
that was fucked up

>> No.3218861

>>3218846
Yeah, youtube's new layout is pretty shit.

>> No.3218880

You can practice your philosophy skills by pretending to be suicidal and having arguments with the suicide hotline counselor. If you win, you graduate philosophy 101

>> No.3218882
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3218882

Animals don't commit suicide because survival is their only conscious purpose. Humans on the other hand, are well above the problem of natural selection and need a more complex sense of purpose in order to be happy/mentally healthy. That's why humans commit suicide and animals don't.

The question was debating the moral integrity of suicide.

I think suicide is selfish if anyone has some kind of emotional connection to your life. If people care about you, they are opening themselves up and trusting you with their own feelings. To kill yourself in a context similar to that would completely compromise their trust. An act of suicide in that situation would be incredibly unjust.

But I suppose if you are a complete loner with no human connections whatsoever, suicide would be acceptable, granted a controlled method was utilized.

Like any moral dilemma, context is everything.

>> No.3218885

Instead of wasting a body and killing yourself, why not go to some new city or country and start a new life? Unless a picture of yourself wearing a diaper and holding up a sign saying "I love diapers" got put on the front page of google I don't see why you should be afraid of the idea of starting a new life on a nice blank slate.

>> No.3218893

>>3218020
When you aren't playing with your dogs and they're just lying around the house, they're probably thinking about dead animals they've seen, and wondering about what will happen to them when that happens too.

My cat turned emo after his mother died. Started chewing his tail raw at random intervals till there was no hair on it.

If an animal can be emo, then I think they can be suicidal too. But without cliffs or opposable thumbs, its hard to die.

>> No.3218894

>>3218882
>Animals don't commit suicide

Except this is false.

>because survival is their only conscious purpose.

one of their objectives

>> No.3218895

>>3218831

People with depression or mental illness don't suffer?

>> No.3218898

>>3218882
>People care about you -- An act of suicide in that situation would be incredibly unjust.

It's unjust for you to decide what you can do with your body.

It's just for other people to decide what you can do with your body.

>being this stupid in 2012
>shiggdy

>> No.3218900

>>3218885
Maybe it's not a question of an unbearable reputation, maybe the person with suicidal tendencies feels completely indifferent to the human race regardless of the circumstances.

>> No.3218908

People who are in the state of mind to consider suicide are very rational and carefully think it through.

>> No.3218913
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3218913

>>3218898

It had nothing to do with the body, its about the morals of human relationships.

Also, this is what this thread has descended into. And I thought /lit/ was civilized.

>> No.3218915

>>3218913

>don't commit suicide, it will make ME feel bad.

>> No.3218918

>>3218913
>It had nothing to do with the body, its about the morals of human relationships.

The body is integral to those relationships.

The end of a relationship is the death of the body.

Your argument is like saying slave masters would be sad if their slaves ran away.

Yes they would be sad.

>> No.3218926

i think the shift towards this goddamn there is no objective meaning to the world shit marks the rise of autism

>> No.3218928

>>3218802
>implying I'm alive

>> No.3218932

>>3218926

>objective meaning
>married-bachelor

i think the shift towards this goddamn "there are no married-bachelors" in the world marks the rise of autism

>> No.3218941

>>3218926

i think the creation of 4chan and the internet marks the rise of autism

>> No.3218947

>>3218918

That's hardly a just analogy.

All I'm saying is that if your existence has a mutually positive influence on someone else's life, they have given and you have taken, and vice versa, then to kill yourself, without their consent, would be morally unjust.

>> No.3218950

>>3218880
Well, I laughed.

>> No.3218952

>>3218009
Well I don't think there is any intrinsic value to life, so I don't see why it wouldn't be acceptable.

If taking your life is something you wish to do of your own volition, then I don't see why some made up idea that life is somehow sacred should stop you.

But whether it is viable or useful is another issue.
If you feel like life is truly meaningless, then there shouldn't be any intensive to end it either.

As rational as we try to be, true objectivity and rationality is unattainable. Because rationality is merely reflection. It doesn't really offer drive to do anything. If you examine your desires you will see that they are mostly rooted in your feelings or instincts.

So your desire to commit suicide simply cannot come from a rational, logical, or self-sufficient source. It's always rooted in some emotion of sadness or dissatisfaction. And emotions can be altered, over time.

>> No.3218957

>>3218952
there shouldn't be any incentive*

>> No.3218958

Food for thought;

If the world is over-populated and the Earth can no longer sustain such a capacity of human beings, aren't we obliged to kill ourselves? And is it morally unjust to create life?

>> No.3218968

>>3218109
my friend's dog leapt off his back deck and died. it was pretty high up. and he was such a quiet dog too...

>> No.3218972

>>3218958
that's not food for thought

that's a thought turd.

>If the world is over-populated and the Earth can no longer sustain such a capacity of human beings, aren't we obliged to kill ourselves?

why would we be?

>nd is it morally unjust to create life?

yes

>> No.3218981

>>3218958
I don't see why you would be obliged to kill yourself. And obliged to who?
This presumes that there is something more important to you than your own life... Which, speaking from an evolutionary standpoint, there simply isn't.

At any rate, gradual decrease in reproduction seems like a much more sensible solution.

>> No.3218990

Killing anything that is alive is unjust, including yourself. That's why I only take showers once a month and never brush my teeth.

>> No.3219006

I would say that it's every person's right, as sole owner of their own life, to throw that life away. Nor do I really believe that the simple act of being born engenders any obligation onto the individual to care for that life or whatever, beyond simple self-preservation instinct. A real obligation should be something entered into through informed consent or as a result of some sort of unreasonable negligence, and an infant is not capable of either of these.

It is an incredibly foolish decision under almost all circumstances, but not one that is my place to try to stop or criticize either. Well, of course I'd try to prevent a friend or family member from doing it due to a personal interest in this person not being dead, and I might advise someone if I think they're doing it for rash or impulsive reasons, but I wouldn't necessarily believe that the person is necessarily morally wrong in doing so. About the only case where I would consider suicide to actually be an offense against morality would be something like a parent taking their own life and leaving their own young children to fend for themselves. That kind of thing is not okay. You created those children, either intentionally or through a failure on your part to prevent them, so you have an obligation to take care of them. The same goes for committing suicide to try to escape some other legitimate obligation, but this case in particular strikes me as being one of the worst cases of this.

>> No.3219018

>>3219006
> but not one that is my place to try to stop

You should try to stop suicides. Most serious attempts at suicide are made in highly irrational states of mind.

>> No.3219025

>>3219018
Well I mostly meant stop by force. Obviously I'd still try to talk someone out of it given the chance.

>> No.3219027

>>3218952
I like your line of thought, but I don't think he claimed there was objective and reasoning justifying his supposed suicide.

I think when people say they "realize" life is meaningless, they merely mean that their hopes of meaning (that they have likely built their lives from) have crumbled.

It's not exactly an objective acknowledgment of the lack of purpose as much as it is... disappointment. Which leads to sadness and depression. I'm sure this can be mended if the person finds something some other occupation that interests them.

That's just my take on it anyways.

>> No.3219031

>>3219027
Yeah, I've never much liked when people say "life is meaningless, suicide is the only answer" or such things. If something doesn't have a meaning behind it the only answer is to destroy it? That doesn't make any sense at all. A lot of things are meaningless but still somehow pleasant or beneficial.

>> No.3219038

>>3218861
Agreed. Quite a poor move on their part.

>> No.3219058

>>3219038

The new layout tested well with focus groups. Don't be egocentric.

>> No.3219064

>>3219058
Well I'm sure we will all adjust to it in due time. No going back now. Just got to go with the flow.

>> No.3219468

>>3218020
Dolphins have committed suicide, you imbecilic fuck.

Self-aware beings are capable of suicide.

>> No.3219485

In what sense is it unacceptable?

>> No.3219875

>>3218913
Your close relationships are immoral for not doing everything in their power to help you when you're suffering to the point where you're going to destroy your own consciousness

>> No.3219882

>>3218009
iwannacuminhishair

>> No.3219884

>>3218009
i want to spill my man-milk in his scalpular follicles

>> No.3219885

life is only meaningless if you're still ignorant and haven't figured out how to create meaning

>> No.3219886

>>3218009
iris blooms within
white devours without
exalt
thy beast
fought in white
succumb in darkness
-fin

>> No.3219891

>>3219885

That 'meaning' you create is meaningless.

I agree, though, that pragmatism's the only real answer

>> No.3219923
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3219923

Yes, but only if it's a last resort. Such as not having anywhere to go, not because mommy doesn't like you, but because you have no mother - or because you can't due to psychological regions. Imprisonment, etc. I would definitely kill myself if I got twenty to life in prison. And don't give me that "oh well you're just dodging the punishment" bullshit. No, uh uh, if you kill yourself that is the punishment and a salvageable fuck you to the government. I'll go, but my way.

>> No.3219927

People say suicide is selfish. Just to play devil's advocate, isn't it selfish to convince someone who dislikes their life so much that they would consider suicide to continue to live in a supreme state of misery just to spare yourself the pain of seeing them die?

>> No.3219952

My kidneys are failing. When they first told me I contemplated just flat out refusing dialysis because I'm basically trapped by a machine until I either convince someone to give me a kidney or get one from a stranger which has an average wait time of five years. I thought about it for a while and decided I was being an overly dramatic idiot. I might not be able to go very far, but I can still have something of a life while I wait. And there are people who care about me.

However, if someone with like terminal brain cancer wanted to end it, I'd understand that. Committing suicide because life is meaningless just seems stupid.

>> No.3219956

>>3219952
That sucks man, I hope you find a doner

>> No.3219958

>>3219927
It is. But once one kills himself, it affects everyone who cares for him. Once one does not kills himself, it only affects himself.

>> No.3219961

>>3219468
gib mi prof pls

>> No.3219966

>>3219927
you're correct. the selfish argument is bullshit. we're not here to live our lives for other people. fuck that.

>> No.3219973

>>3219952
Sucks dude, hope you find some döner. At least you have a lot of time to read. Besides, there are so many people here who would love to have an excuse to sit around all day being entertained by books, games, films and such.
You can study at the time too, or do some work. I remember an uncle of mine having to sit around for 3 months and he built amazing stuff with Lego Technic.

>> No.3219974

To me personally? No. To people in general? Yes.

>> No.3220137

>>3218882
Social needs are not necessary for survival, they are necessary for culture. If you don't eat, drink, sleep, you die. Suicide comes out only of that lower predatory instinct, to kill. So it's a survival need being transformed into a social one. That's the whole ritual with the note, the insecurities, why it's contagious in a society. To kill yourself is to say "look children, this Koolaid is how you find sustenance." As deceit is an immoral act, suicide is as well.

>> No.3220138

>>3218009
acceptable, monsieur, to whom? to society? perhaps not. to me? perhaps. to you? i don't care.

/thread

>> No.3220140

It is acceptable, though I would expect you to take out some of our overlords before you die. This or make a contribution to science.

>> No.3220144

>>3219952
i feel you. i have severe dwarfism so it shortens my life span far below the norm.

>> No.3221032

No. well yes.I got a disease, its so-so, If it progresses I would think about it.

>> No.3221034

Acceptable by what standards
Make your own decisions for yourself

>> No.3221063

>>3220138

Not /thread monsieur-man.