/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.3203356]

who are your favourite poets?

[Anonymous No.3203361]

>>3203356
Gavlyn

[Anonymous No.3203366]

Tao Lin
Megan Boyle

[Anonymous No.3203368]

Rumi and T.S. Eliot

[Anonymous No.3203379]

Ishikawa Takuboku
Ryokan

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3203384]

>>3203356
>who are your favourite poets?
>Posts a picture of Bukowski

[Anonymous No.3203391]

Seamus Heaney

[Anonymous No.3203405]

>>3203361

[Anonymous No.3203410]

Lord Tennyson is the greatest poet.

[Anonymous No.3203460]

>jeff mangum

[Anonymous No.3203604]

>>3203405
hmm kinda liked it.

Dunno if cute girl or i dont hear what she is saying

[Anonymous No.3203632]

>>3203460
/mu/ pls go.

[Anonymous No.3204289]

>>3203356

1. John Berryman
2. Allen Ginsberg
3. Frank O'Hara
4. Charles Bukowski
5. Walt Whitman

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3204297]

>>3204289
>4. Charles Bukowski

[Anonymous No.3204311]

>>3204297

Lot of hate for ol Buk, I see. Something I don't see is a single reason why. Have you even read his work or do you just despise any poet who is even remotely "edgy"? Read the Blue Bird, The Strongest of the Strange, and The Man with the Beautiful Eyes... then come back to me.

[Anonymous No.3204319]

>>3203356
>>3204289

edgy teens detected

[Anonymous No.3204329]

>>3204319

Not a teenager, unfortunately.

Now, as I just said... It seems everyone has something to say about "edgy" writers, but I've never seen a single one of you pose a legitimate argument as to why they are bad.

[Anonymous No.3204333]

>>3203361
>>3203405
>>3203604
>hmm kinda liked it.
Yeah, she's quite good.
>Dunno if cute girl or i dont hear what she is saying
Don't know what this means.

[Anonymous No.3204335]

>>3204311

tricked and mad I see ...

[Anonymous No.3204337]

Shakespeare is the only correct answer

[Anonymous No.3204342]

e.e.cummings
robert frost
stephen crane
w.h.auden
philip larkin
emily dickinson

[Anonymous No.3204348]

>>3204311

there is good "edgy"

>henry miller
>rimbaud
>burroughs

and then there's edgy teen edgy

>ginsberg
>bukowski
>kerouac

[Anonymous No.3204350]

>>3204337

You mean the collective of unknown men known as "Shakespeare".

[Anonymous No.3204353]

>>3204350
You mean Sir Christopher Marlowe

[Anonymous No.3204355]

>>3204348

Ok, at least Rimbaud and Burroughs are in there... but jesus fuck, the hell is wrong with Buk, Ginsberg, and Kerouac? And how the fuck are they related to "teens". I don't know a single person under 20 who reads any of those names! I think there's an awful lot of bandwagon butt-hurt people out there too afraid of being seen as an "edgy teen" to appreciate the great work they produced.

[Anonymous No.3204356]

>>3204350
>>3204353

[Ringwald Haze !wWl1v4WK/Y No.3204358]

Plath, Dickinson, Shakespeare, cummings.

I hate Bukowski.

[Anonymous No.3204359]

>>3204348
ginsberg had his moments

i think you should give a listen to his reading of howl aloud. it sounds like stand up comedy, this really changed my perceptions of ginsberg and howl

otherwise i agree though keroac and bukowski are teenage-suicide tier

[Anonymous No.3204364]

>>3204350
No, that one dude named William Shakespeare whose incredible talent so terrified lesser men that they had to come up with conspiracy theories regarding the authorship of his works

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3204366]

>>3204311
I am EXTREMELY aware of "Blue Bird". I can go on and on about why Bukowski is a bad writer, and it would be about the same reasons for his poetry. He is a lazy writer as well as poet. He depends on people who are just as lazy in their interest. He depends on people who don't want to find deeper meaning and want it all at face value, and not in a good way. And the funny thing is these Bukowski fans love it and revel in this fact and come up with all sorts of apologetics for Bukowski and his shit writing. It's like the druggy high school drop out wrote poetry on him having a soft heart on the inside of his drugs and drinking hard act. It's all nothing new, and Bukowski brings nothing new. He reverberates cliches in his poems and writing. "I DRINK AND I PRETEND TO BE TOUGH, BUT REALLY I'M A SOFTY!" "EVERYONE IS LIKE SHEEP, THEY DON'T HAVE IT. WHY ARENT DOGS KILLING THEM?!" Anyone with a pencil and a fifteen minutes can be Bukowski.

[Anonymous No.3204380]

Gavlyn.

[Anonymous No.3204386]

>>3204359

I think I know which reading of Howl you're referring to and the reason for that was because he got very tired of reading it after it blew up. Listen to James Franco read it in the Howl movie... he breathes new life into it! And I can at least see why Buk is teenage-suicide tier, but I'm sticking to my guns about Jack.

>>3204366

If anyone with a pencil and fifteen minutes can be Bukowski... than why don't they? How about you start.

[Anonymous No.3204388]

W.B Yeats
Mary Oliver
William Blake
Billy Collins

[Anonymous No.3204393]

>>3204355

>on the road
>howl

interesting only as a look into the 60's counterculture. not timeless literature.

>ham on rye

literally a book about an edgy teen. basically catcher in the rye 2.

[Anonymous No.3204394]

she had nothing
but time on her hands:
silver rings, turquoise stones
and purple nails

i rubbed my thumb
across her palm:
a featherbed
where slept a psalm

yea, though i walk
i used to fly
and now we dance

i watched
my toenails blacken
and walked a deadened trance

until she woke me
with the knife edge
of her glance

i have the scars to prove
the clock strikes
with her hands

-- Saul Williams.

[Anonymous No.3204399]

>>3204380

[Anonymous No.3204407]

>>3203460
Why did I laugh at this

[Anonymous No.3204410]

>>3204393

Howl is just as applicable to todays society as ever before. So is a lot of Beat lit. The hipsters that exist today may be a pathetic bunch... but they're smart and they're getting smarter. Much more intelligent than kids their age of the last few generations. I'm not referring to the Starbucks sipping, mustache wielding, Pink Ray-ban wearing, Fixed-Gear bike riding, rich, pretentious hipsters of a few years ago (and still some today)... but the real bohemian reincarnates who are ACTUALLY intelligent and make great art and writings, but just happen to like thick framed glasses and buy cheap clothes.

[Anonymous No.3204424]

>>3204410

>beat lit

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3204445]

>>3204386
Myself? I'm not looking to be a writer.

As far as why anyone else isn't getting themselves published, ask them not me.

Here, off the top of my head with no prior anything.

"He came back today
The man he came to me
He doesn't understand what it's like
To run all night, to fight the fight
Yet here he is looking for my rights
And I hand them over as he likes."

Less then five minutes that took me, and I even make it more deeper then Bukowski would have when I was attempting to write like Bukowski. And I'm just like anyone else here. So yeah, anyone with a pencil and fifteen minutes can be Bukowski.

[Anonymous No.3204450]

Gonna keep it down to five, in no particular order.

William Blake
Rabindranath Tagore
W.S. Merwin
Ezra Pound
Li Bai

[Anonymous No.3204460]

>>3204410

are you an older dude?

just curious.

[Anonymous No.3204461]

>>3204410
These people are a fantasy. The Beats never even made good art. They were asshole kids who thought they were too cool for school, so they dropped out and wrote a bunch of over-edgy nonsense. The reason people give them any attention, at all, is because they occasionally throw in a few paltry remarks on the hollowness of hedonism, only to go immediately back to writhing in hedonia. They're worse than the anhedonic postmodernists, since (other than the incomparable nature of postmodern prose) they actually operate under the pretense that what they're saying has any sort of meaning.

[Anonymous No.3204462]

Why are you guys such assholes?
People like different things.
NO WAY!

Why is Plath not bunched into Bukowski, Ginsberg, etc? If not for his public image, Bukowski would just be an image-laden poet. And you can DAMN well bet that no matter which ones are good, you're a lot shittier than they are.

Your hivemind really bothers me. In an age where technology is threatening literature, that you would scoff at someone's non-Twilight tastes is like punching yourself in the face.

[Anonymous No.3204474]

>>3204462

[Anonymous No.3204477]

>>3204445

That's not very good. And even if that's some obscure bukowski that your using as a ploy to make me look stupid, I'm not changing my answer. The majority of Buk's poems are not trying to be artful in the laziest way possible, they are insightful. They capture the only thing he knew, which was the life he experienced. And his poems captured them flawlessly. THAT is why he is a fantastic poet... not because he went to some Ivy League school and talked about michaelangelo.

There's a reason there aren't a thousand other writers like Bukowski getting famous... because they all suck... and Buk didn't. That's why he's fucking famous... and you're not.

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3204485]

>>3204462
So because you enjoy Bukowski and are getting mad, everyone should stop not liking what you like because it's not Twilight?

Why don't you have a cup of tea or something and take a ten minute break from the internet.

[Anonymous No.3204493]

>>3204477

bukowski is famous because edgy teens like him

also
>fame
>good literature

[Anonymous No.3204495]

>>3204460

I'm not a wizard... but I'm else most definitely not a teenager. And at the risk of sounding snobby, even when I was a teenager I, I was fairly mature... not like the kids today.

>>3204461

To cool for school? Kerouac, Ginsberg and many more went to Columbia University you idiot.

[Anonymous No.3204505]

>>3204462
plath actually had ovaries to commit suicide though

here's why i dislike bukowski btw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8KJiay6EI0

what the fuck is this shit, he's like 12 years old

[Anonymous No.3204506]

>>3204477

the fact that you're even considering that anon's poem might be bukowski is perfect.

[Anonymous No.3204523]

>>3204506

Even the greats wrote shit poems. Better safe than sorry, kid.

>>3204505

Maybe you'll understand when you have a wife that runs off and lives with her boyfriends every night.

[Anonymous No.3204537]

>>3204477
>There's a reason there aren't a thousand other writers like Bukowski getting famous... because they all suck... and Buk didn't. That's why he's fucking famous... and you're not.

I was with you up until that point.
Micki Minaj is famous. Justin Bieber is famous. Stephanie Meyer is famous. E.L. James is famous.
Does that make these people good artists? No.

[Anonymous No.3204542]

>>3204485
I don't like Bukowski, really. But your scoffing at anyone who does by repeating the same thing over and over again is ignorant.

My point was that anyone who recognizes good literature should be standing by others who do, and hearing what things that person has gained from the work rather dismissing people with mostly alike tastes.

[Anonymous No.3204545]

>>3204495
You fucking retard.
Kerouac had shitty grades, had to go to prep school so he would be able to have the MINIMUM to enter Columbia on a football scholarship. He then proceeded to drop out after two fucking years.

Ginsberg didn't drop out, but found the entire experience distasteful.

Aside from the fact that Kerouac actually did NOT "go to school" in a literal sense, the idiom "too cool for school" doesn't mean "they thought themselves too cool to actually be educated", but rather means they consider themselves worth more than an institutionalized education could offer them, which, in the case of the Beats, is indisputable, you fucking imbecile.

Also, you're putting worthless stock in the largely-illusory prestige of a place like Columbia, whose merit lies pretty much exclusively in its existence as a hub for networking and connection-building.

[Anonymous No.3204551]

>>3204537

In a sad kind of way, it does. Sorry bro. You and I may not like them... but these people are not famous because they suck at what they do. Yes there is a HUGE gap in the talent of pop singers of today and the pop singers of 50 years ago... but like I said before... these people are good at what they do. That's why they're traveling the world and making millions.

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3204552]

>>3204477
You think it's not very good because you don't agree with me. Why would you bother even commenting on it.

Insightful to whom? The people who haven't read much? Haven't seen many movies? Haven't spoken to many other humans? People who can't self-reflect? People who haven't stepped outside? Those are the only kinds of people he could be insightful to. To anyone else it would just being obvious or cliche.

I love that phrase to fucking hell when people use it for anyone period. "He is famous and you are not." like it's a mark of quality. Twilight is famous, is that a amazing book? Does Meyer not suck? Fuck ,she has surely sold more copies of her books then all of Bukowski. I guess Bukowski isn't as good as her, right? He doesn't have the skills to be better then her, right?! 50 Shades of Grey must be amazing as well by that logic.

[Anonymous No.3204562]

>>3204545

Yet they're legends and your getting butt-hurt on 4chan.

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3204577]

>>3204542
I'm sorry if I seem redundant, but these Bukowski suckers ask the same shit and bring up the same arguments. If you don't like me, don't read me. I make it simpler for you by having a trip.

Bukowski isn't good lit, why would I support it.

[Anonymous No.3204578]

>>3204552

They're different genres. You can't compare them. Who knows... maybe Buk would have been terrible at sci-fi teen paranormal fiction and bondage porn transcriptions.

[Anonymous No.3204596]

>>3203632
But Jeff Mangum's pretty cool.

[Anonymous No.3204597]

>>3204562
Whenever someone loses an argument, someone just responds and says "butt-hurt".
I'm not saying they're not famous. They are clearly famous. Fucking Gilgamesh (the actual historical king) is a legend, too, but that doesn't mean he really did anything worthwhile. It just means he was adopted by the mainstream.

[Anonymous No.3204601]

>>3204577
I'm not asking you to support it. But if someone has gained something from it, I'm asking you to hear them out as to why that art connects with them rather than say "that's suicidal teen bullshit." I don't like Bukowski but I see how someone could. I think his later work is awwwright.

[Anonymous No.3204625]

>>3204329
That's because there is no legitimate argument. /lit/ is just trying to out-hipster themselves again.

[Anonymous No.3204630]

>>3204551
They're good at what they do in the sense of projecting a fake personality constructed by the record companies to sell records.
The reason Justin Bieber is famous is because his music appeals to 13 year olds with a short attention span. More so, he appeals to the 13 year olds because he's a good-looking blank canvas for them to paint whatever thoughts and images they want of him. For example
>oh he's so cute and sweet
>he said he loves me! aww he loves me!
>he's so funny and charming

They don't actually know that. His interviews are the closest source they have to knowing that. Who knows, maybe he was told how to answer questions to appease the fans.
But since his music speaks of love and boyfriends and teenage romance, and he's good looking, the teenagers will formulate whatever perceptions Justin might have of them.
Plus, when girls talk about Justin, they don't talk about his music very much. They talk about *him*. It's more than the music, it's the way he projects himself to make the teenage girls feel special.

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3204638]

>>3204601
I didn't say Bukowski was suicidal teen bullshit.

[Anonymous No.3204647]

>>3204630

It doesn't matter if he appeals to 13 year olds... he's clearly the best at his job. Which is appealing to 13 year olds.

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3204648]

>>3204578
I sure as hell can. He is basing it off fame.

[Anonymous No.3204653]

>>3204495

alright dude, you seem sincere and i respect that so i'm gonna peel away the snark and attempt to articulate why people dismiss bukowski and the beats as "edgy teen" lit.

basically, i think that beat lit is actually good for teenagers to read because its angsty and rebellious. however, the beats ended up losing. the seventies were basically the big hangover from all the shit that they advocated. beat lit seems childish because yeah sure we'd all love to "drop out", smoke weed and pork babes all day but adults that do that are assholes.

maybe you'll say that there's more to them than i'm giving them credit for. maybe. but the main thrust of those guys is hedonism. on the road, howl, and ham on rye do not illuminate eternal truth. they just show what happens when you live a selfish life in a world that doesn't even exist anymore (i mean seriously. if you tried to pull the kind of shit kerouac did today you'd get stabbed).

bukowski, ginsberg and kerouac's writing is good but not great. i think they're mainly remembered because their writing presents this fantasy life where you can be completely selfish. this may be compelling to teenagers but not adults.

[Anonymous No.3204685]

>>3204523
i wouldn't have such a wife in the first place, but even if i found myself in such a situation i wouldn't behave like a 12 year old boy by kicking my fiancee or calling her names.

[Anonymous No.3204689]

>>3204653

Frist off, you may be the only civil person left on /lit/ and you should legitimately be proud of yourself. I thank you.

Second, yes, the lifestyles featured in Ham on Rye and On the Road are HARDLY laws to live by... but if I could, I'd like to single out Howl. The Poem Howl is the bible of self acceptance. It changed my life... really. It completely changed how I view "strange" people and completely 180ed my views on homosexuality and gay rights (not that I was necessarily against gay rights, but I was raised (and am no more) Roman Catholic... I'll leave it at that). The book taught me that we should relish in our "inner moonlight" and let our true selves shine. It all sounds so stupid, in a way. But it helped make me the person I am today. That it's ok to be a little fucked up. 163 allisabl

[Anonymous No.3204697]

>>3204653

First off, you may be the only civil person left on /lit/ and you should legitimately be proud of yourself. I thank you.

Second, yes, the lifestyles featured in Ham on Rye and On the Road are HARDLY laws to live by... but if I could, I'd like to single out Howl. The Poem Howl is the bible of self acceptance. It changed my life... really. It completely changed how I view "strange" people and completely 180ed my views on homosexuality and gay rights (not that I was necessarily against gay rights, but I was raised (and am no more) Roman Catholic... I'll leave it at that). The book taught me that we should relish in our "inner moonlight" and let our true selves shine. It all sounds so stupid, in a way. But it helped make me the person I am today. That it's ok to be a little fucked up.

[Bullkowski !!DDFKjfJhPl/ No.3204714]

>>3204697
>You don't think Bukowski is bad.
>Last civil person left on /lit/
>Be proud
>I thank you.
>MFW

[Anonymous No.3204745]

>>3204714

Exhibit A. The proof is in the pudding.

[Anonymous No.3204748]

1, Baudelaire
2, Yeats
3, Rimbaud
4, Boye / Ferlin
5, Mallarme

Shakespear is the true king, and dont need to be mentioned..

Yeah yeah, beat was fun when you were 15-19, after that it feels kinda pathetic.

[Anonymous No.3204760]

>>3204748

I don't know man... going on 24 and shit's still great to me. I owe a large chunk of my current self to beat lit... it really helped shape who I am. (As far as self acceptance and my enjoyment of life)

[Anonymous No.3204777]

>>3204760
Thats nice. And good for you! Still beat poetry and prosa is like lit punk. Not very good, but has some sort of charm i guess.
But you cant compair them to the "true" masters.

[Anonymous No.3204785]

>>3204760
>i owe a large chunk of my current self to beat lit

you must be really popular

[Anonymous No.3204790]

Whitman
Pound
Byron
Pushkin
Eliot

Don't you wish you could pleb like me?

[Anonymous No.3204793]

>>3204760

do you happen to wear a fedora?

[Anonymous No.3204811]

>>3204777

>you cant compair them to the "true" masters
>you cant compair them
>you cant compair
>compair

[Anonymous No.3204812]

Jalad ad-Din Rumi, Ibn al-Farid, Walt Whitman

[Anonymous No.3204813]

>>3204785

Sounds like someone could use a little self-acceptance themselves.

>>3204793

Oh yeah tottally. The little tiny ones from hot topic with the pinstripes and the ed hardy dragons. And I smoke American Spirits and ride a unicycle as a political statement.

[Anonymous No.3204816]

>>3204812
>Jalad

Jalal*

[Anonymous No.3204823]

>>3204811
bah whatever, compare.
04:40 here.. late and dont speak native english.

[Anonymous No.3204829]

Yeats
Plath
Shakespeare

[Anonymous No.3204876]

Everytime people talk about the best poets it gets me all sadfeels about how Keats died so young, and how I will never be able to read all of this AMAZING poetry he would've written had he not died.

[Anonymous No.3204892]

>>3204777
And who exactly are the true masters?

Beat lit isn't the punk of lit, Surrealism is.

[Anonymous No.3204917]

>>3204892
dada

[Anonymous No.3204923]

>>3204892

i'm not the dude that wrote that comment, but to answer your question: ginsberg liked to think of himself as the next walt whitman (mainly because they were both fags) but whitman is a true master. not so much with ginsberg

[Anonymous No.3204925]

>>3204892
>>3204777
>>3204917

Feminist lit

[Anonymous No.3204930]

>>3204925

hegemonic patriarchy/10

[Anonymous No.3204931]

>>3204930

>proving my point

[Anonymous No.3204956]

>>3204892
Proust > Kerouac
Whitman, Yeats ect. > Ginsberg
I do like Burroughs, so he can stay with his filthy books.

[Anonymous No.3205214]

JORGE LUIS BORGES

[Anonymous No.3205229]

>>3205214
Just picked up his collected non-fictions
I'm enjoying it. It's fun to see how different a writer he was at the beginning and end of his life

[Anonymous No.3205259]

>>3205214
YO!
>>3205229
Monk Eastman and Funes

[Anonymous No.3205277]

>>3205214

My nigga (erm... my... spic...?)

Other Spanish language poets:

1. Pablo Neruda
2. Gabriel Mistral
3. Roberto Bolano
4. Llosa
5. Nicanor Parra

Borges' Sonnets are god tier though.

[Anonymous No.3205279]

gay chinese-american mormon timothy liu!

[Anonymous No.3205291]

>>3205277

sabes que si

[Anonymous No.3205292]

>>3205277

>putting Neruda in the same list with Bolaño and Parra
also
>Vargas Llosa
>Poetry

Mines apart from solid choices like Yeats and Nabokov:

>Enrique Lihn
>Gabriel Zaid

[Anonymous No.3205304]

>>3205292

>putting Neruda in the same list with Bolano and Parra

What's wrong with the latter two?

[Anonymous No.3205345]

>>3205304

the latter two are great and Neruda is awful

[Anonymous No.3205353]

>>3205345

>Neruda is awful

ouch, disagree