I'll just drink this beer.

File: 603 KB, 1059x1006, someonehadtosayit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:05:14 2012 No.3191177 [Reply] [Original]

I'll just drink this beer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:07:14 2012 No.3191182 Why is minimalism the only interesting means of expression?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:10:14 2012 No.3191184 >>3191182 True perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:11:14 2012 No.3191186 >>3190977

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:15:14 2012 No.3191188

>>3191184

True perfection is reached when concepts are expressed through language in such a fashion as to render sensations of all kinds, for all kinds of reasons, in the reader. Whether a work is minimalist or not should only be incidental to a collective focus on artistic execution on the part of the author.

True perfection is up to you and me, in short.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:17:14 2012 No.3191190 The neckbeard king isn't always so economical. He's also dull and cliched. I don't think anyone liked Finnegan's Wake. Ever.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:19:14 2012 No.3191198 >>3191190 Is liking it the point? I loved it

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:21:14 2012 No.3191202

>>3191188

Nonsense. If perfection exists then it is inherently an objective property. If literary perfection exists then it is held to the same standards as perfection in anything else.

There's a reason the most lusted after cars have a sleek minimalistic design.

There's a reason the suit and tie remains the standard of fashion.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:22:14 2012 No.3191204 >>3191202 Bye, thread. Can't wait to see this a week from now with a half a thousand serious responses

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:24:14 2012 No.3191208 >>3191204 >>> >Serious responses >Half a thousand responses Right.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:25:14 2012 No.3191210 I've never seen Joyce discussed here seriously.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:29:14 2012 No.3191213 >>3191210 Haven't been here long, have you?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:30:14 2012 No.3191214 >>3191213 >I haven't seen x happen here >Haven't been here long, have you? Confirmed for elitist's first choice of empty banter.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:34:14 2012 No.3191215 >>3191214 >I haven't seen x happen here >Haven't been here long, have you? >Confirmed for elitist's first choice of empty banter. Sure is elitist in here

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:36:14 2012 No.3191216 Deep & Edgy must be rolling in his grave right about now. I approve.

>>	Rei !p8eYCadcMo Thu Nov 29 03:37:14 2012 No.3191218 >>3191216 He's still here though. Just posts as anon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:41:15 2012 No.3191220 >>3191218 Let him suffer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:42:15 2012 No.3191222 >>3191202 >perfection >existing lel >OP trying to justify his taste for shitty children's literature double lel

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:48:14 2012 No.3191225 >>3191184 >True perfection is abject poverty and starvation I banish you to Africa!

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:51:14 2012 No.3191228

>>3191222

Sorry that you think reading lots of big words and unreadable sentences makes you smart, bro. Good luck with that Arts degree. See you at BK.

>>3191225

>comparing perfection in form to perfection in life

Is this what they're really teaching you kids these days?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:54:14 2012 No.3191231 >>3191228 I fail to see how a formalistic universal wouldn't reach even into this supposed penetralium we call "life". >True perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:54:14 2012 No.3191233 >>3191210 I've never seen any book discussed seriously ever.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:56:14 2012 No.3191237 >>3191231 We are the creator, not the created. There is a vast difference there. But, if the transhumanists are right, we will soon create our own bodies subject to the same rigorous standards of perfection.

>>	Rei !p8eYCadcMo Thu Nov 29 03:57:14 2012 No.3191240 >>3191214 Well you really haven't been here long, have you

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 03:57:14 2012 No.3191241 >>3191233 People on 4chan wake up, pull on a fresh diaper and embark on a day-long hotpocket-fueled trolling surfeit. Don't expect any insights from these gentlemen.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:01:14 2012 No.3191251 >>3191241 To be fair, you can often find good discussion on any subject on boards which are not dedicated to said subject. I've had better discussions about literature on fucking /b/ than I've had on /lit/

>>	Rei !p8eYCadcMo Thu Nov 29 04:01:14 2012 No.3191252 >>3191241 Wrong, I don't wear diapers. If I pee I do it in bottles.

Blackbear !kySZvIxYHA Thu Nov 29 04:02:14 2012 No.3191253

I hate everything about your pic OP. You are blind and stupid. That sentence you so quickly tarnished is - most likely - the greatest sentence in a novel. Ever. You say it's useless yet it evokes so much meaning in very few words. Comparatively, GRRM uses less words but explains 1/100th of the earlier sentence. You try and fit the whole theme of a novel, history, epic events etc in just a part of a sentence like Joyce does. You can't. This is just the worst thread I've seen in recent history that 'discusses' literary quality.

Fuck you.

>>	Rei !p8eYCadcMo Thu Nov 29 04:07:14 2012 No.3191260 File: 41 KB, 760x571, 1269775274778.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3191253 >Finnegan's Wake >greatest anything Read Ulysses, pleb.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:10:14 2012 No.3191265 >>3191253 I know that 20k debt for a job flipping burgers stings a little, but you can drop the act any time you like. The sooner you come to terms with your failures the sooner you can remedy them.

>>	Rei !p8eYCadcMo Thu Nov 29 04:12:14 2012 No.3191276 >>3191265 >remedy being an English or Philosophy major Cute

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:17:14 2012 No.3191284 >>3191276 Yeah, you're right, there's no cure for failure that massive.

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:17:14 2012 No.3191285

>>3191182
Seriously. OP obviously isn't being serious but there are way too many people who think minimalism is the "right" way to write. There's nothing wrong with minimalism (when done right of course) but there's also nothing wrong with more verbose writing styles. It pisses me off when people treat it as an absolute maxim that you must write something in the fewest words possible.

Blackbear !kySZvIxYHA Thu Nov 29 04:17:14 2012 No.3191286

>>3191260
I already have. I've read all four of Joyce's novel, in fact. Also if you're not going to offer any coherent rebuttal (further than what your little Wikipedia search will tell you), then don't bother commenting. Seriously, construct an argument for your statement.

As to why Finnegans Wake is fantastic - in such minimal words as I have - I will discuss briefly a sentence:
>In the name of Annah the Allmaziful, the Everliving, the Bringer of Plurabilities, haloed be her eve, her singtime sung, her rill be run, unhemmed as it is uneven!
This combines the common starting of Islamic Suras with a Christian Lord's Prayer. However, it is more than that - It combines many languages in just this sentence. Further, it relates back (as seen in the first sentence) to ALP being associated to the River Liffey, and the bearer of life.

>Implying you've read Finnegans Wake or Ulysses.
>>>/mu/ pleb is used there.

There is also no apostrophe in Finnegans, idiot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:18:14 2012 No.3191290 >>3191177 >I'll just drink this beer. Wow, don't, beer is bad for your health and tastes like piss.

Screwtape !!tdBUE9PLvpz Thu Nov 29 04:27:14 2012 No.3191299

>>3191237
It's interesting that you mention transhumanism while talking about perfection. As much as the movement is a technophilic dream about singularity as the end of history, the idea of a single form possessing near-infinite potential seems like the opposite of rigid formalism. It's also interesting that the image praises GRRM's use of iambic pentameter without really saying what it does for the reader—wasn't masturbatory prose-fiddling Joyce's problem? There's obviously a discussion to be had on what exactly lies at the terminus of literary perfection and the implications that has on the purpose of literature itself but posting in a troll thread and so on and so on.

>>3191290
people actually used to piss in beer to make it stronger, it's called "leint"

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:29:14 2012 No.3191301 >>3191286 That is literally one of the worst sentences I've ever read. Packing in heaps of references to other things doesn't make a work good, it just makes it pretentious.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:32:14 2012 No.3191303 >>3191301 I'm not a huge Joyce guy, but I love the language in Finnegans. (it is a pretentious reference game, however)

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:35:14 2012 No.3191308 >>3191186 pretty much this

>>	Blackbear !kySZvIxYHA Thu Nov 29 04:38:14 2012 No.3191314 >>3191301 I thought it was a beautiful example of a well thought-out sentence written in context of the whole piece. But, each to their own, I guess.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:41:14 2012 No.3191320 File: 949 KB, 243x339, 1351400725264.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3191303 At least you admit it. I think you're the first fan of the work I've EVER seen admit that. This is an auspicious occasion.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:46:14 2012 No.3191324 >>3191184 Please leave Tao Tzu

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:46:14 2012 No.3191325 >>3191320 It's important to recognize as well that pretension doesn't disqualify a work from greatness in any sense. Finnegans is absolutely great at what it does.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:55:14 2012 No.3191343 >>3191325 Aaaaaand there goes the slight shred of hope I had for you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:57:14 2012 No.3191346 >>3191343 'Sincerity' is what appeals to you in high art?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 04:58:14 2012 No.3191349 >>3191346 or, rather 'authenticity'

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 05:01:14 2012 No.3191352 >>3191346 >>3191349 I'm just a fan of function over form.

>>	sage sage Thu Nov 29 05:02:14 2012 No.3191353 Y'all posting in a troll thread. sage sage sage

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 05:03:14 2012 No.3191355 >>3191352 You can't divorce the two

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 05:07:14 2012 No.3191361 >>3191355 Of course not, but one can certainly be given precedence over the other.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 05:18:14 2012 No.3191368 >>3191361 They exist as part of a whole - form instructs function instructs form is function is form, etc

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 05:24:14 2012 No.3191371 >>3191368 That does nothing to prevent one from being given precedence over the other when it comes to design.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 05:25:14 2012 No.3191372 >>3191368 >They exist as part of a whole - form instructs function instructs form is function is form, etc Whoa dude, like, totally postmodern, dude!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 05:32:14 2012 No.3191378 >>3191372 It's very much a modernist sentiment, not the same anon, just saying...

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 05:32:14 2012 No.3191379 >>3191371 There are no two things to be given preference over - they exist as part of a whole. yadda yadda >>3191372 One of us is not shitposting.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 05:57:14 2012 No.3191408 Trite.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 06:04:14 2012 No.3191421 >>3191379 >One of us is not shitposting. Awfully self-deprecating of you, old chap.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 06:13:14 2012 No.3191438 I was hoping the OP image would be a parody of how you can read infinite meaning into anything and it'd be just as vacuous as Finnegans Wake.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 06:14:14 2012 No.3191439 >say as much as possible in as few words as they can manage Martin's books all somewhere in the region of 800+ pages. Yeah, sure op, whatever you say

Daniel Day-Lewis !!bggsHKbvDir Thu Nov 29 06:25:14 2012 No.3191461

>>3191286
>>3191177
Holy shit. Reading both these excerpts from Finnegans Wake makes me really want to read it. Maybe they've just chosen stand-out passages, but it looks great. Certainly not worthy of its reputation as incomprehensible. I guess I'll find out for myself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 06:38:15 2012 No.3191483 >>3191439 He says a lot in those 800 pages.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 06:46:14 2012 No.3191494 >>3191177 You'd think a shotgun to the fucking throat would have killed Hemingway, but the fucker still won't go away.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 06:49:14 2012 No.3191498 >>3191494 Hemingway was right. Suck it up and take your lumps like a man.

>>	Return of the SLAF Thu Nov 29 07:00:14 2012 No.3191510 >>3191177 But Joyce is just as talentless as George R.R Martin.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:01:14 2012 No.3191511 >>3191498 Faulkner was right. Hemingway scribbled like a twenty-something his whole life, with a few exceptions

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:01:14 2012 No.3191513 somebody should remake this chart with tao lin instead of grrm

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:02:14 2012 No.3191514 File: 7 KB, 201x199, 1284706892146.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3191510

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:04:14 2012 No.3191518 >>3191513 You want it done? Fucking do it yourself. >>3191511 Poor Faulkner, thinking the ten-dollar words made him one of the greats. Sort of feel bad for him, really.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:07:14 2012 No.3191521 >>3191518 He is one of the greats. Easily the greatest American author post 1919

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:09:14 2012 No.3191524 >>3191521 In 50 years no one will even remember him save English profs.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:10:14 2012 No.3191527 >>3191524 He's one of the more widely-read literary authors in the states. He will definitely be remembered in the canon for a long time to come - at the very least as historically interesting

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:10:14 2012 No.3191528 File: 29 KB, 640x480, 128-homer-choking.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Op is an idiot troll. The rest of the people in this thread are idiots. Some of them are also trolls. I am an idiot. -TAO PANG RING

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:12:14 2012 No.3191532 The thing is these days, i'm not even sure op is trolling. This worries me.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:12:14 2012 No.3191533 >>3191518 im 2 lazy

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:18:14 2012 No.3191541 File: 63 KB, 290x441, 1271736509738.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:30:14 2012 No.3191562 >>3191532 which part do you disagree with?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:42:14 2012 No.3191576 >>3191562 the part where the whole thing is actually how he feels

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 07:51:14 2012 No.3191581 >>3191576 so you think these old books which are not understandable at all is better written?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 08:21:14 2012 No.3191608 >>3191581 He thinks he's better than us.

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 08:32:14 2012 No.3191617

I've never read either of those two authors* but I always have to rewrite my work to use more and unnecessary, redundant words. If I write as though it's for myself to read, no-one else can understand it simply because everyone sucks at reading comprehension. It's very important to communicate effectively - just because you can encode the information within very few words doesn't mean those who read it will be able to decode it.
I'm pretty sure I'm not deluding myself about this, when I was in school I lost count of the times I had to explain to the tutor** that I had actually covered all the points I needed to, going through it and pointing out that, yes, that is what those words mean.

*Other than The Dead by Joyce which is nothing like Ulysses.

**Including the heads of English at a private school. Don't tell me it's because the teachers were stupid.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 08:48:14 2012 No.3191643 >>3191177 Probably not the first to say this about Martin, but this is an unjustifiable usage of the pathetic fallacy, and, in my opinion, a rather stupid image - a man drinking his way across an ocean? Was he on a cruise ship or something?

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 09:10:14 2012 No.3191672

I love you OP. While Martin sure isnt top, the talking around and saying nothing by Joyce and similar is just nasty to read.
"hurr durr, I used 30 big words to look smart and deep for something that could be said in 5. Bet somebody will copy me and act like the shit I write is good to sound smart too."

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 14:01:16 2012 No.3192268 >>3191303 What's pretentious about being erudite?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 14:02:16 2012 No.3192271 >>3192268 Being erudite is not pretentious (by very definition, in fact). Being a show-off is.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 14:03:16 2012 No.3192275 whts prtntus abt bng rudte

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 14:03:16 2012 No.3192276 pls don't dismiss joyce's entire oeuvre on the basis of finnegans wake, guys.

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 14:08:16 2012 No.3192286

>>3192276

No, let's not forget that he wrote some of the worst poetry ever published in the English language.

Pomes Penyeach is utter fucking doggerel.

He travels after a winter sun,
Urging the cattle along a cold red road,
Calling to them, a voice they know,
He drives his beasts above Cabra.

The voice tells them home is warm.
They moo and make brute music with their hoofs.
He drives them with a flowering branch before him,
Smoke pluming their foreheads.

Boor, bond of the herd,
Tonight stretch full by the fire!
I bleed by the black stream
For my torn bough!

If someone posted that shite on /lit/, they'd be laughed off the board.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 14:31:16 2012 No.3192364 >>3192286 >They moo and make brute music with their hoofs Come one Joyce, you can do better than that

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 15:00:16 2012 No.3192454

>>3191260
As a minimalistic work Joyce's is up there at the top - he has a very creative writing style.
But let's be fair - he doesn't tell very good stories, does he now?
It might not be fucking high-brow, but I enjoy the works of GRRM - they're just beautiful
>inb4 Poorly formulated(I'm drunk)
>>3191290
Also, beer tastes like piss? What kind of special monster are you?

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 15:41:17 2012 No.3192542

So what exactly is going on?
Is the guy drinking while traveling across the narrow sea?
Or is he literally drinking the sea as he walks across it?
Is he a pirate? Is he a passenger on a ship transporting alcohol? Is he magic?
Why is the sea narrow? How narrow is it?

The Joyce passage on the other hand vividly portrays the scene, and even if you don't know anything about The Church of the Immaculate Conception, or Howth Castle and it's environs, or the Dublin coastline, there's another layer of depth to be discovered. The first word isn't capitalized because it's a continuation of the last sentence of the book, a recirculation.

So tell me again, which is unintelligible?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 15:45:16 2012 No.3192556 File: 37 KB, 991x327, Jamba Juice.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I have nothing to add but this

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 15:48:16 2012 No.3192565

>>3192364

It's not even his worst. He was a horrible poet.

Alone

The noon's greygolden meshes make
All night a veil,
The shorelamps in the sleeping lake
Laburnum tendrils trail.

The sly reeds whisper to the night
A name-- her name-
And all my soul is a delight,
A swoon of shame.

tl;dr - tfw no qt gf

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 18:27:17 2012 No.3193044 >>3192542 The entirety of it.

Blackbear !kySZvIxYHA Thu Nov 29 18:32:17 2012 No.3193058

>>3193044
It's not unintelligible if you actually put some effort into it. But, like many others on this board, you probably read little as a result of undeniable laziness. This laziness correlates to your laziness in research when tackling a harder novel/work.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 18:52:17 2012 No.3193112 >>3193058 I read a lot, man, I'm just willing to call a highly-acclaimed stinker a stinker. It's like this dude said >>3192565 >>3192286 If someone posted his drivel here they'd be laughed off the board.

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 18:59:20 2012 No.3193129

>>3193112
i agree, monsieur. he is a laughing stock and barrel and he ought to be laughed off the face of this board. who are we, after all, if not the laughing grimace of today, the voetganger locust whose breath is a warning to higher aspirations.

Scardinelli 1765

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 18:59:20 2012 No.3193130 >>3193112 >I read a lot, man You must be an expert, then

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 18:59:40 2012 No.3193132 >>3193130 >reading >expert Get the fuck over yourself.

>>	VurtKonnegut Thu Nov 29 19:02:17 2012 No.3193145 >ITT: People who have never read The Dead

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 19:04:17 2012 No.3193151 >>3193145 Does he circumlocute in that as well?

>>	VurtKonnegut Thu Nov 29 19:07:17 2012 No.3193162 >>3193151 Why don't you read it and find out?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 19:09:17 2012 No.3193166 >>3193151 >hasn't read even entry-level Joyce >feels qualified to call Joyce shit

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 19:10:17 2012 No.3193167 File: 2 KB, 152x260, bones.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >ha ha ha

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 19:10:17 2012 No.3193168 >>3193166 I'm new to the thread bro. >>3193162 Because the samples of his writing I've seen in this thread are fucking horrible.

>>	Ollie !!KX1j+pu7EIN Thu Nov 29 19:25:17 2012 No.3193197 >>3191225 Casual racism. Because it's charming!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 19:26:17 2012 No.3193202 >>3193197 It sort of is.

VurtKonnegut Thu Nov 29 19:34:17 2012 No.3193216
File: 9 KB, 259x194, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3193168
You're not going to read one of the most celebrated authors of the twentieth century because some retarded Anon/troll posted a few out of context examples and then went on to say that GRRM is a better writer?

Awesome.

LargeMagellanicCloud !NLqByHLcRc Thu Nov 29 19:36:17 2012 No.3193225

>>3193168
So you're basing your opinion on the most incomprehensible work in the English language, and some works of his selected on the basis that they were shit, rather than being representative of his major writings. Fantastic.

And there's the matter of there being a difference between 'circumlocution' and 'erudition of words' that relies on the knowledge and perception of the reader rather than the author.

>>	LargeMagellanicCloud !NLqByHLcRc Thu Nov 29 19:37:17 2012 No.3193232 >>3193225 opinion of him on*

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 19:42:17 2012 No.3193254 >>3193216 >>3193225 You guys sure are taking this personally. Tell me though, why should I read something by a writer that, so far, I've seen nothing but garbage writing by?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 19:43:17 2012 No.3193255 >>3191177 Nice, OP. I agree completely with your picture.

>>	VurtKonnegut Thu Nov 29 19:48:17 2012 No.3193269 >>3193254 Because you're an idiot if you think you can judge an author that you haven't actually read by a few out of context quotes.

LargeMagellanicCloud !NLqByHLcRc Thu Nov 29 19:49:17 2012 No.3193273

>>3193254
>taking this personally.
Not really, didn't take very much effort to say any of it, and I'll be getting the same sort of sleep I ever get tonight.

If your experience in reading Joyce ends with this thread, you've read two sentences and a few poems. I can figure every author if I only consider a few short excerpts.

>>	LargeMagellanicCloud !NLqByHLcRc Thu Nov 29 19:50:17 2012 No.3193278 >>3193273 every author is shit if* Funny how I keep skipping over a word.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 19:52:17 2012 No.3193285 File: 19 KB, 303x400, bob.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3191177 >circumlocution

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 19:54:17 2012 No.3193289 i take this personally, messieurs. this question and this image go down to my soul like a hungry scythe.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 19:56:17 2012 No.3193298 File: 125 KB, 523x309, dfw_fw.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 19:59:17 2012 No.3193309 File: 65 KB, 670x439, finnegans_wake_big.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3191177 the conclusion of your syllogism is false, being based upon licensed premises.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:00:17 2012 No.3193314 >>3193273 It took less than that to convince me Stephanie Meyer wasn't worth reading.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:01:17 2012 No.3193316 >>3191253 wat

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:03:17 2012 No.3193326 >>3193316 He's just mad he wasted 50k on a useless degree. He comes on here to vent his impotent rage about the hand he dealt himself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:04:17 2012 No.3193327 >>3193309 THAT FUCKING COVER

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:05:17 2012 No.3193329 File: 16 KB, 360x240, 62270.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] OP is a joke and his picture is a bigger joke

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:05:17 2012 No.3193333 >>3191253 >Getting trolled this hard

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:06:17 2012 No.3193335 >>3193329 You sound upset.

>>	Blackbear !kySZvIxYHA Thu Nov 29 20:06:17 2012 No.3193337 >>3193316 What did you fail to understand? I was quite clear, I believe.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:07:17 2012 No.3193339 >>3193333 >spending the time to make OP's pic, even if it is a troll

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:10:17 2012 No.3193344 >>3193339 that shit couldn't have taken more than five minutes to make, yo. You're just lazy

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:15:17 2012 No.3193355 >>3193344 >five minutes >lazy >that picture right

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:26:17 2012 No.3193384 >>3193355 Not intelligent enough to pull criticism out of your ass?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:35:17 2012 No.3193408 File: 97 KB, 433x651, alice issy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >away alone aloved alast along the Exceeds the entirety of GRRM's career output in 6 words, fuck yourselves very much.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:38:17 2012 No.3193415 >>3193408 It's "a way a lone a loved a last a long the", you fucking pleb.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:42:17 2012 No.3193425 File: 34 KB, 631x354, This-thread-is-now-diamonds-This-thread-is-NOW-DIAMONDS.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193415

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 20:43:17 2012 No.3193428 File: 134 KB, 900x1184, 1299271570435.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193408 >alliteration makes it good hurr

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:30:17 2012 No.3193581 File: 36 KB, 500x392, JJ_1915_weiss.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193428 >dragons and swords make it good hurr

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:34:17 2012 No.3193594 File: 106 KB, 622x562, Publication1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193428 >>3193581 Ok this thread is officially getting good, should I read the rest?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:37:17 2012 No.3193601 >>3193581 Because that's totally what anyone in this thread has said. Nice strawman.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:38:17 2012 No.3193604 >>3193428 >implying Finnegans Wake is a string of words only put together to form alliteration and has no other substance lel

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:41:17 2012 No.3193611
File: 62 KB, 470x685, 82050024431602432_2WiNZK0v_c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Hey guys, this is relevant:

McGurl calls it “lower-middle-class modernism”—is a means of reducing the risk of embarrassing oneself, and is one way that students from working-class backgrounds, like Carver (he was from Oregon, where his father was a sawmill worker), deal with the highbrow world of the academy.

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2009/06/08/090608crat_atlarge_menand#ixzz2DfagBCcu

Makes perfect fuckin sense eh? Hide behind ambiguity so no one sees how shitty and stupid your writing is. Also, Generation X'ers use "irony" to shield themselves from being berated for the stupid fools and shitty writers they.

Heh.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:41:17 2012 No.3193613 >>3193604 Face it, all Joyce did was have a literary wank about how he could construct sentences and pack in heaps of references to other works. There's nothing of any real substance to his work -- it's all flash.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:41:17 2012 No.3193615 File: 60 KB, 399x362, (3).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193604 Why don't you do a close reading of that line for us Ke-mo sah-bee.

>>	None !!muO1YE/mn/J Thu Nov 29 21:42:17 2012 No.3193617 >>3193613 His 'flash' is at one with his 'substance' Thinking that what you say and how you say it are different things? In 2012? Does anyone itt read?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:42:17 2012 No.3193618 >>3193408 someone please please please explain to me why this is so great. I really want to know the appeal of this. Am I being trolled?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:45:17 2012 No.3193625 >>3193613 >it's all flash did you even read Ulysses?

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:47:17 2012 No.3193628

>>3193615

Why? Everything that can be said about Joyce has pretty much already been said in this thread.

>>3193617

Form and function aren't intertwined. I don't know where people get this ridiculous idea. How you say what you intend to get across makes a great deal of difference.

>>3193618

People like to pretend that they're smart because they enjoy the overuse of literary devices.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:48:17 2012 No.3193630 >>3193625 Didn't need to. I learned everything I need to know about Joyce by reading FW.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:48:17 2012 No.3193632 >>3193630 you're a joke

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:49:17 2012 No.3193633 >>3193630 And you learnt everything you need to know about reading from a cereal box.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:50:17 2012 No.3193638 >>3193632 The only joke in this thread is Joyce. >>3193633 >cereal Enjoy your sugar-stuffed carbohydrates, amerifat.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:52:17 2012 No.3193645 >>3193638 They have cereal everywhere broski, you must have never been outside the US.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:53:17 2012 No.3193646 >>3193645 We eat proper porridge for breakfast here.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:53:17 2012 No.3193648 >>3193646 Go on, where are you pretending to be?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:55:17 2012 No.3193652 >>3193638 Haha, I like you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:55:17 2012 No.3193653 >>3193648 Scotland.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:57:17 2012 No.3193658 >>3193653 WELL THAT EXPLAINS A LOT

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:58:17 2012 No.3193662 >>3193653 >He thinks people don't eat Weetabix too in Scotland

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 21:59:17 2012 No.3193666 >>3193662 No true Scotsman would ever eat such garbage.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:00:17 2012 No.3193668 >>3193666 No true Brit hasn't.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:01:17 2012 No.3193669 >>3193666 No true Scotsman ever wrote anything nearly as influential or immortalizing as Joyce did either

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:04:17 2012 No.3193679 >>3193653 >Scots don't eat cereal Just go away kiddo Back to >>>/tg/ or reddit or georgerrmartin.com or whatever plebhovel you came from

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:05:17 2012 No.3193680 >>3193668 And we aren't fucking Brits, that's your fucking word not ours. >>3193669 We were too busy creating modern civilization to waste time on such garbage like Joyce's works.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:08:17 2012 No.3193683 >>3193680 >And we aren't fucking Brits, that's your fucking word not ours. No, you're confusing the Irish and the Scottish you idiot. It's annoying when people call a Scotsman English though.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:08:17 2012 No.3193685 >>3193680 >creating modern civilization right. >>3193679

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:11:17 2012 No.3193691

>James Joyce was just jerking himself over his writing
>he only makes references to other shit, it's all vapid
>I don't need to read him to know he sucks
>accessibility means good, if the average person can't immediately understand it, it's bad
>content is totally separable from form

I... I think I need to be held.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:12:17 2012 No.3193692 >>3193691 Deal with it, nerd.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:15:17 2012 No.3193699 >>3193691 >>I don't need to read him to know he sucks welcome to /lit/, where everyone has a strong opinion and almost nobody's is based on anything substantial

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:17:17 2012 No.3193703 >>3193699 You have to love newfriends welcoming people.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:21:17 2012 No.3193710 >Deal with it >Face it This thread is so full of pretension it hurts. How's that high horse, OP and co?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:26:17 2012 No.3193732 File: 120 KB, 902x1020, lit.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] always relevant

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:36:17 2012 No.3193768
File: 64 KB, 800x600, large.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Roaches claiming Joyce is an amazing writer
>Opposing people pull up quotes to show how stupid he is
>Roaches still maintain he is amazing without giving reasons why, and not even explaining why

Stay slayed Roaches.

*crunch*

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:40:17 2012 No.3193782 File: 710 KB, 1044x495, 1351858694623.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Also relevant to thread. Greet the new dawn! People are waking up! The roaches be gone!

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:41:17 2012 No.3193786

>>3193768

Tell me what you know about burden of proof, roachguy. Tell me what you've read of Joyce's.

In fact, why not go ahead and give me a list of all your 'roach' authors and which works of theirs you've read (i.e. which works you haven't assumed are shit based on what the internet told you)

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:41:17 2012 No.3193787 >>3193768 0/10. Roach thread. Everyone who participated in this get the fuck out

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:44:17 2012 No.3193797

>>3193314
No. You listened to the public opinion of it. Whatever excerpt you read wasn't the only exposure you had of it, because there was already a large image built in your head from everything else.

And so those excerpts are all you have to go off of only if you've never been exposed to any other discussion or reference to Joyce.
If you've never been exposed to any mention of Joyce, then you're really in no position to have confidence in your judgement of any piece of literature.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:45:17 2012 No.3193799 >>3193786 Hahahah Roach.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:45:17 2012 No.3193801 >>3193314 Are you sure she's not?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:46:17 2012 No.3193808 >>3193799 Take notice, /lit/, for those of you who aren't acquainted with this particular poster: this is the kind of discussion you can expect out of our friend

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:47:17 2012 No.3193811 >>3193782 Meandering Demonstration of Expensive Liberal Arts Education is the title of Tao Lin's next book, coincidentally.

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:49:17 2012 No.3193813
File: 301 KB, 537x617, Roach Lit.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3193808
Take notice, /lit/, for the roach will make you endlessly argue it about semantics and bullshit, never directly arguing the point, only making personal attacks and semantic dog-fucking clusterfucks.

Slay the roach, don't humor it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:50:17 2012 No.3193816 >>3193808 Dude, you just got slayed. Roaches living through nuclear holocaust my ass.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:51:17 2012 No.3193819 >>3193813 Tell me which works you've read of Joyce's and what you thought about them as complete works. No semantics. No personal attacks. Tell me what you've read and your thoughts about it.

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:52:17 2012 No.3193820

>>3193813
i am noting it, all of it. i am learning a great deal from the intelligent posters today, monsieur, among whom i number yourself and my learned colleague in the harry potter thread, who is less anxious about the "roach" problem on the surface, but i assure, at heart, is most sincerely affected, and has even shuffled 2 hours out of his evening in order to do combat here with malicious sarcasms of the dire lesbian sort. grasp the hideousness of it, and you will perish from fear!!!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:53:17 2012 No.3193821 >>3193820 Tell me which works you've read of Joyce's and what you thought about them as complete works. No semantics. No personal attacks. Tell me what you've read and your thoughts about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:54:17 2012 No.3193826 >>3193816 >Dude Go to bed kid

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:54:17 2012 No.3193827 File: 33 KB, 400x355, bush-mccain-hug.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193820 Come here you!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:56:17 2012 No.3193834 File: 35 KB, 640x424, dead-roaches.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193826 >>3193821 >>3193819 Sweet victory...at last.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:57:17 2012 No.3193835 >>3193834 Tell me which works you've read of Joyce's and what you thought about them as complete works. No semantics. No personal attacks. Tell me what you've read and your thoughts about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:57:17 2012 No.3193836 >>3193826 who is calling a dude a monsieur?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:59:17 2012 No.3193839 Anyone remember roachie's William Blake interpretation? Still makes me laugh

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 22:59:17 2012 No.3193842

>>3193835
>>3193821
>>3193819

They'll never give a valid response because they have none to give. I'd be surprised if they'd even read any of dubliners. Or hadn't quit somewhere before the fourth chapter of Portrait. Or during the first chapter of Ulysses. Or didn't even try Finnegans

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:04:17 2012 No.3193854

>>3193839
Oh you mean this thread?
http://fuuka.warosu.org/lit/thread/S2723585#p2723898

I think I make pretty solid arguments.
"True friendship is opposition"
-Hence why Blake did a portrait of Newton
-Hence why Blake's poem Tyger Tyger is about the "Sublime terror about a newtonian universe"

Consider yourself slayed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:05:17 2012 No.3193855 >>3193854 Tell me which works you've read of Joyce's and what you thought about them as complete works. No semantics. No personal attacks. Tell me what you've read and your thoughts about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:05:17 2012 No.3193857 >>3193842 i would be surprised too, monsieur. and you know what else? joyce... he is laughing at all of us. he is healthy and full of life. he is coming to the ball to dance with natasha and sonya!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:06:17 2012 No.3193859 >>3193857 Tell me which works you've read of Joyce's and what you thought about them as complete works. No semantics. No personal attacks. Tell me what you've read and your thoughts about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:07:17 2012 No.3193864 >>3193859 Reported for spamming.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:11:17 2012 No.3193872 >>3193864 Okay. Feel free to give an answer, if you're able. What do you think of Joyce's work? Have you read many of his books? Which did you like less than the others? Which did you like more? I'd be very curious to know.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:11:17 2012 No.3193873 >>3193864 he's trying to incite actual literary discussion and is getting nothing but 'lel roach' responses instead of anything of substance

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:13:17 2012 No.3193878 >>3193873 Saying you're reporting a post is against the rules, so I'm not responding with a reply.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:22:17 2012 No.3193904 File: 378 KB, 800x1066, 1297885921755.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193872 >implying you need to have a complete mastery of Joyce's works to write him off as a tryhard peddler of purple prose and pretension.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:23:18 2012 No.3193908 >>3193904 Fuck off

>>	VurtKonnegut Thu Nov 29 23:24:18 2012 No.3193914 >>3193904 That wasn't implied.

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:24:18 2012 No.3193915

>>3193878
is it against the rules to run withershins around a church, monsieur, even if you are chasing Cunt? if i were to present the case before an ecclesiastical court, and speak a pure classical latin, and advocate indulgence, how many passes would i have to reject before i was obliged to be sodomised for justice?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:25:17 2012 No.3193925 >>3193915 Off Fuck it

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:25:18 2012 No.3193920 >>3193904 he never said anything about having read all of them, you inferred that. he asked what one thinks of Joyce's works, if one has ready (m)any of his works, which he liked. you didn't answer the question in any capacity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:27:17 2012 No.3193932 >>3193915 You monsieur, are a silly silly man!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:29:17 2012 No.3193938 >>3193908 >>3193914 >>3193920 Struck a nerve with you guys, didn't I?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:30:17 2012 No.3193941 >>3193938 it's just painfully apparent that you hold opinions about an author who you have little if any experience reading

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:32:17 2012 No.3193947 >>3193941 Ew roach tears from roach butt-hurt...it stinks!

>>	VurtKonnegut Thu Nov 29 23:33:17 2012 No.3193949 File: 173 KB, 568x1023, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193938 >this whole fucking thread

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:34:17 2012 No.3193952 >>3193941 is the appearance of that fact painful or is the fact itself pain, or is it painful because you are an invalid, monsieur?

Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:35:17 2012 No.3193954

>>3193941

>you have to read a lot of an author to know if they're any good or not

Go read the Twilight saga, then.

>>3193949

>they don't like what I like
>oh wait I get it they're pretending to be retarded
>okay I feel better now, of course everyone likes what I like, I have the best taste in anything ever.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:35:17 2012 No.3193956 >>3193949 sadly and utterly relevant

>>	VurtKonnegut Thu Nov 29 23:37:17 2012 No.3193961 File: 59 KB, 344x291, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193954 You're either a troll or the biggest cunt on lit, so which is it?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:37:17 2012 No.3193962 File: 258 KB, 500x354, 7751.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193954

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:38:17 2012 No.3193969 >>3193961 Oh, I'm not even trying to hide the fact that I'm a cunt.

>>	VurtKonnegut Thu Nov 29 23:40:17 2012 No.3193973 >>3193969 Do you sometimes tripfag as Ollie by any chance?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:42:17 2012 No.3193980 File: 2.10 MB, 334x318, 00595664_dance_gif.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3193954 I am seriously behind you all the way! Let's give it up for you! Hip Hip HARA Hip Hip HARA Hip Hip HARA

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:42:17 2012 No.3193982 >>3193973 Nope. I do occasionally tripfag, but not as Ollie.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 29 23:47:17 2012 No.3193999 >>3193954 The Twilight saga is definitely readable as pop-shlock. What did you think of it? It started to meander after the second book, and the fourth was pretty atrocious, but the first two I enjoyed.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 00:11:17 2012 No.3194096 >>3193999 Couldn't get through the first one. I've read better Harlequin romance novels.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 01:10:17 2012 No.3194230 >>3191320 auspicious does not mean what you think it does

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 01:16:17 2012 No.3194246 File: 3 KB, 126x122, killeveryoneinthisthread.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 01:51:17 2012 No.3194314 >>3194230 I've been waiting all fucking day for someone to catch that. Jesus Christ, /lit/, for how smart you all pretend to be you sure are fucking dumb sometimes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 01:55:17 2012 No.3194319 >>3194314 Anyone who is smart minimized this thread.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 02:32:13 2012 No.3194402 >>3194314 What if we don't give a fuck?

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 02:52:14 2012 No.3194447

>>3193954
Except they're not even saying that they don't like Joyce, they're just writing him off as a shit writer when he clearly isn't.
A writer writes. That's what he does. Even if his "only" accomplishment with FW, Ulysses, etc was just being able to build "clever" sentences, that still makes him a great writer. It takes a LOT of writing skills to build the kinds of sentences he does in Finnegan's Wake. You should read Umberto Eco's book on translation "Saying almost the same thing", it has a passage about the translation of FW into french. It really helps you appreciate the thought Joyce put into pretty much every word of the damn book.
Could it be considered bad storytelling? maybe, but is it bad writing? Hell no. Even if you don't like Joyce (I don't really like him that much, to be honest) you have to admit he was a pretty great writer.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 19:41:20 2012 No.3196637 >>3194447 He sucks. Deal w/it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 19:44:19 2012 No.3196641 File: 225 KB, 373x327, 4644.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3196637

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 19:52:19 2012 No.3196661 File: 56 KB, 331x402, 1354301968001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3196641

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 19:53:19 2012 No.3196665 >>3196637 How so? Nothing in this thread comes close to convincing me he's a bad writer, let alone a less-than-great one

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 19:55:19 2012 No.3196670 I bet all the Joyce fans ITT also like modern art.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 19:57:19 2012 No.3196675 >>3196670 As in modernism? Or art put out in modernity? What's wrong with either?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 19:57:19 2012 No.3196678 >>3196670 >not liking modern art Are you 16?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:00:19 2012 No.3196689 File: 32 KB, 304x407, art_modern_art.-merello._transparent_portrait.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3196670 >>3196675 ZOMG! SO DEEPZ! SO BUEAITFULS! 2DEEPS4US!! tehehe

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:00:19 2012 No.3196693 >>3196678 >liking bullshit splashes of color put together nonsensically Sorry you have shit taste bro.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:01:19 2012 No.3196698 >>3196689 Do you have a real critique of modern art or do you just not like very abstract paintings? What kind of authors and artists are you into?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:02:19 2012 No.3196702 >>3196693 >thinks pre-modernism wasn't exactly that with a pretense of clarity and meaning Sensation is art, brother

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:03:19 2012 No.3196705 >>3196698 >abstract That's a funny way of saying bullshit splashes of color put together nonsensically.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:03:19 2012 No.3196706 >>3191177 "from serve of shore to bend of bay" is also iambic pentameter, isn't it?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:04:19 2012 No.3196708 >>3196698 Roach.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:06:19 2012 No.3196713 >>3196708 I'm not sure what you mean, but I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're able to answer the question. What's your critique of the modernist ideal? That questioning what art is via art is worthless? How so?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:08:19 2012 No.3196716 >>3196706 No. If it was deliberately in iambs, it would be in Tetrameter (as there are only 4 feet). Underage and uneducated Roach detected. crunch

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:09:19 2012 No.3196722 >>3196713 How 'bout you go fuck farts out of a hobos ass, since that is the past-time of you modernists anyway. That, and eating shit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:12:19 2012 No.3196728 >>3196722 How 'bout you go suck on a fat pink mast

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:13:19 2012 No.3196731 >>3196722 how utterly profound

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:13:19 2012 No.3196734

>>3196722

Why are you on this board, if not to discuss literature? You seem to be everything that is wrong with this place - conceit, pretension, vanity, that erect ego. That apparent lack of knowledge or dialogue. Please, please, PLEASE, answer the question.

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:16:19 2012 No.3196744

>>3196713

This is real art. A master of his craft had to practice for years if not decades to achieve the level of mastery he shows in this painting.

Compare to modern "art", which is just bullshit splashes of color thrown together nonsensically. An autistic two-year-old could make modern "art."

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:18:19 2012 No.3196755 File: 106 KB, 800x620, 800px-David-Oath_of_the_Horatii-1784.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3196744 forgot my picture.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:22:20 2012 No.3196773 >>3196744 I can't wait how the roaches will fuck with this perfectly sound logic.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:23:19 2012 No.3196775 >>3196744 That's not entirely true. Even to do a painting that's just splashes of color, you need to know how to palette and brush properly.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:25:19 2012 No.3196784 >>3196775 >first semester studies modern artists confirmed for arts major dropouts.

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:25:19 2012 No.3196785

>>3196744

Your definition of art is how difficult a piece is to create?

James Joyce took 17 years to write Finnegans Wake and had to practice his whole life to attain his level of skill. Why is his art not good?

>modern "art", which is just bullshit splashes of color thrown together nonsensically.

I'd love to hear how many modernist works you've read

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:26:19 2012 No.3196787 >>3196775 Not really. Pollock was a faggot as an example.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:27:19 2012 No.3196791 >>3196773 Fuck off

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:27:19 2012 No.3196793 File: 19 KB, 240x318, enemapaintings.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3196775 Warning, picture contains "modern art"

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:28:19 2012 No.3196795

>>3196785

Joyce's "art", despite how long it took him to get there, is the literary equivalent of 2deep4u bullshit splashes of color.

Ask any modern artist what their work represents and I guarantee they'll say it's every bit as deep and meaningful as people claim Joyce is.

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:30:19 2012 No.3196804

>>3196795

>is the literary equivalent of 2deep4u bullshit splashes of color.

In what sense? It's an ornately structured multilingual comic romp. I could say the same thing about the painting you posted, that it's just a bunch of colors splashed together that form images - SO FUCKING WHAT???

What does an artist's idea of what their own work represents have to do with anything?

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:32:19 2012 No.3196813

>>3196795
I've been to a lot of college art shows. If you find an artist who can imagine a deep and meaningful explanation for their work, even if they are pretentious, you should show them some respect because they are ahead of the bell curve.

I can't even begin to relate all the times I've had experiences like this: "Interesting decision to take a black-and-white photo of a rainbow."

"Yeah, well, I saw it one morning and thought it looked cool so I grabbed my camera."

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:33:19 2012 No.3196819 >>3196804 lol dumb roach.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:34:19 2012 No.3196823 >>3196819 hey buddy

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:35:19 2012 No.3196831 >>3196819 Fuck off

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:37:19 2012 No.3196834 >>3196819 I started to have some hope for conversation with your response. Why can't you continue the dialogue without resorting to name-calling? Is it in you?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:38:19 2012 No.3196838 >>3196834 Just leave it you fucking simpleton

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:40:19 2012 No.3196845 >>3196795 >the literary equivalent of 2deep4u bullshit splashes of color that would be true if he wrote a book by pulling words out of a hat and writing them down in order to comprise the narrative. unfortunately for your argument, he did not

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:41:19 2012 No.3196852 >>3196838 Why? I'd like some answers on a board intended for exactly this kind of discussion.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:46:19 2012 No.3196863 >>3196852 Something tells me the concept of a troll is new to you. Even if he has the answers you're looking for, he's not going to give them to you. Just tell him to fuck off

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:48:19 2012 No.3196868 OP here. You guys really are the easiest board to cause a shitstorm on.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:48:19 2012 No.3196871 >>3196863 He's been at this for months, and I fear he's sincere. I'd like to hear him out, see if he actually backs these batshit ideas up with any fluff or it's all just 'trolling'

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:51:19 2012 No.3196874
File: 161 KB, 1351x625, Funny Roach-Slayer.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3196871
Listen roach, you know I'm a godly slayer with vast intellect, but arguing with you is like arguing with a roach, it's pointless and stupid. I'd much rather slay you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:54:19 2012 No.3196884 >>3196874 Fuck off monsieur

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:58:19 2012 No.3196895 >>3196884 Roach-Slayer and monsieur funny pants are not of the same entity.

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 20:59:19 2012 No.3196897

>>3196874

Why are you posting a thread complaining about how little /lit/ has read of what they talk about???

>>3193786
>>3193819
>>3193821
>>3193835

Not to mention how often you love to gloat about not having read any number of other authors you've taken it upon yourself to assume into rubbish

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:02:19 2012 No.3196905 >>3196897 Like I've said a million times (hopefully this will be the last). If I engage you, you'll lead the argument into a clusterfuck argument over semantics. Not gonna do that Roach, not today, not tomorrow, not any day.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:06:19 2012 No.3196913 >>3196905 of all the sad lives that are lived out here, yours may be the saddest of all

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:07:19 2012 No.3196917 >>3196895 Sure they are They're the fuck off's

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:07:19 2012 No.3196918 >>3196905 >you'll lead the argument into a clusterfuck argument over semantics. Every fucking time. Godspeed, Sir Slayer.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:08:19 2012 No.3196921 File: 490 KB, 720x480, grab4316703.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3196913 Says the roach. squish

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:11:20 2012 No.3196928 >>3196921 your such a good poster.... NOT!!!!!

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:11:20 2012 No.3196929 >>3196905 Is that because you've not bothered to question the integrity of your own argument deeply enough? Is that why it's always necessary to try and shove simple ideas down your throat?

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:12:20 2012 No.3196933
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I'm not going to try and justify the more abstruse references in Finnegan's Wake. I consider it an issue separate from the issue of saying things in more or less words.

On the other hand, I'll point one shared technique in both of these. "from swerve of shore to bend of bay" and "across the narrow sea" have similar images achieved through sound devices. The former justifies its additional wording (8 versus 4 words) by drawing attention, through parallelism and alliteration, to the winding shape of the water. The latter uses the iambic foot in combination with its meaningful terseness to make an equally vivid portrayal of the river described. Both use as many words as they need for the content, though one is indeed longer than the other.

In other words, for any one thing there are both good long and good short sentences to describe it. I like minimalist writing myself, but I find the practice too often misinterpreted to mean that every long sentence is unnecessary.

In the first place, how long is a 'verbose' sentence relative to its content, /lit/?

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:17:19 2012 No.3196947

>>3196929
If you do a search in the /lit/ archives, you'll find that I've posted very long excerpts exhibiting Joyce's shitty style and authorship. Your response to it is always "2deep4u", never bothering to provide close reading of why it's so "brilliant".

Eat shit, and die roach.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:17:19 2012 No.3196950 >>3196933 >equally vivid portrayal of the river described But I thought it was a sea?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:18:19 2012 No.3196955 >>3196947 How can you judge work in context without reading it as part of a whole? Do you even read???

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:19:19 2012 No.3196957 >>3196933 >>3196950 >winding shape of the water >bay >sea

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:19:19 2012 No.3196960 >>3196950 Whoops, yeah. Not sure why I said that, since neither of them are rivers.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:21:19 2012 No.3196967 >>3196955 >Implying you can't judge the quality of a work by reading an extensive excerpt Got anything else roach?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:21:19 2012 No.3196971 >>3196967 Yes. I'm implying that, because it's self-evident.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:22:19 2012 No.3196975 >>3196971 And I'm saying you can. Anything else roach, or will you just get slayed now?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:23:19 2012 No.3196979 >>3196975 >And I'm saying you can. not that guy but semi-related question: have you ever taken an upper level Lit course at a university?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:24:19 2012 No.3196982 >>3196975 How much have you studied this particular topic?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:25:19 2012 No.3196983 >>3196979 It may surprise you to know that I have a PHD in Literature.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:26:19 2012 No.3196988 >>3196983 >thinks 'themes and motifs' are interesting discussion >PHD MY SIDES Which university?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:28:19 2012 No.3196995 >>3196988 Not the guy faking a PHD but just wondering what you think to be interesting discussion.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:30:19 2012 No.3197001 >>3196995 *would be

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:30:19 2012 No.3197002 >>3196995 Things that require too much thought for high-school English classes

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:31:19 2012 No.3197004 >>3197002 Give an example. Please don't say deeper philosophical meaning.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:33:19 2012 No.3197010 File: 20 KB, 528x325, 2231.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3197002 >things

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:33:19 2012 No.3197014 >>3197004 Psychological nuance. Elaborate Characterization. Evocative and original structure. Et cetera

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:34:19 2012 No.3197017 >>3197010 Good a word as any.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:35:19 2012 No.3197021 >>3197002 >too much thought for high-school English class >>3197014 >Psychological nuance >Elaborate characterization >Evocative and original structure uhh what kind of high school did you go to exactly?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:39:19 2012 No.3197031 >>3197021 One where kids like roachguy, interested in 'themes and motifs' were the main participators

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 21:49:19 2012 No.3197057

>>3197014
You think psychological nuance requires a lot of thought? Where I come from Psychology is seen as the easiest study imaginable. Psychology in literature couldn't be harder than what they learn there and is probably even easier. It's just a fictional case created for it's literary value and not psychological complication. I can agree with you on discussion the structure, however.
As a physics student I do have to note not any talk on literature could ever even come close to the difficulty achieved in mathematics and shouldn't, for that matter. Aesthetics isn't hard. Even Finnegan's Wake is child's play compared to General Relativity and it being "difficult reading" or "verbose" isn't what makes it great, it's just what those who cannot grasp mathematics use as a subsitute for appearing clever by understanding it.

Anonymous Fri Nov 30 22:47:14 2012 No.3197232
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>>3197057

This is probably the best post in this thread. Too bad people are going to ignore it in favor of feeling good about themselves for reading "difficult" literature.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 1 00:35:13 2012 No.3197686 >>3191514 Fuck you you cunt. I lost my shit after seeing your post. It's 5:34AM here and I woke me mom with the laughter

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 1 01:15:19 2012 No.3197878 >>3197686 You're welcome.

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/lit/ - Literature