[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 18 KB, 250x302, bobby.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3144311 No.3144311 [Reply] [Original]

Are Bob Dylans lyrics good poetry by your standards?

>> No.3144319

No.

>> No.3144338

>>3144319

too straight forward? or just plain bad?

>> No.3144343

>>3144338
Yes.

>> No.3144351

Bob Dylan is one of the greatest musical poets of all time.

>> No.3144354

>>3144351

Why?

>> No.3144356

>>3144351
No he isn't.

>> No.3144362

Anything too stupid to be said is sung.

>> No.3144364

I always figured bob dylan was a bit of an idiot, then I started listening to 'Theme time radio hour'', and knew it for sure. Dude refuses to employ unionized labour. Nothing worse than an old reactionary pretending to be an outsider.

>> No.3144369

>>3144364

>2012

>pro-labour

Lol ok bud.

You're about a generation behind

>> No.3144377

>>3144364
for some reason i read unionized as un-ionized. i feel like i've made an amazing discovery

>> No.3144384

there is like a massive potential for puns here, but I'm not smart or creative enough to make one

>> No.3144405

Are there any musicians you guys would consider as being skilled writers of poetry?

>> No.3144410

>>3144405
Try the troubadours

>> No.3144412

>>3144405

Musicians

Poetry

Pick one.

>> No.3144416

>>3144410

they cite Bob Dylan as a huge influence.

>>3144405

Captain Beefheart

>> No.3144418

>>3144369
>Lol ok bud.

>You're about a generation behind

Behind what? Behind working? Behind getting screwed on wages if you don't fight for them?

>> No.3144421

>>3144416
I just found out from Wikipedia that there's a "Rock Band" called The Troubadours. That's not what I was fucking talking about.

>> No.3144425
File: 9 KB, 278x282, yablewit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3144425

>>3144405
>you guys
This implies that the /lit/ populace can be considered a credible source on literature

>> No.3144427

>>3144421
>>3144410
Now I'm really pissed

>> No.3144428

Fuck off /mu/

>> No.3144431

>>3144319
>>3144343
>>3144356

Lit again confirmed for worst board. With least humorous or creative trolls.

>> No.3144437

I've never read any song lyrics that I consider good poetry, just song lyrics that I consider good song lyrics. They are separate art forms and should be treated that way.

>> No.3144439
File: 63 KB, 640x504, ruhroh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3144439

>>3144418

Labour was put to trial, and found wanting.

China-1970s + Berlin-1989 + NAFTA 1994 + JIT philosophy/ Japanese management post 1950s

>> No.3144446

>>3144439

This knowledge will take another 50 - 60 years to trickle down to the 99%. I just saved you a lifetime of heartache wondering why your 'side' loses everything.

>> No.3144448

>>3144431
I think the terseness of my responses to the OP and his dull, unoriginal thread was quite effective, thanks

>> No.3144450

>>3144439
I think the entire Western world circa 1945-73 would like to have word with you.

>> No.3144451

>>3144431
Unfortunately they're not trolls. They're angry, jaded shut-ins, who can't help but attack things.

>> No.3144454

Read Old Occitan poetry, everyone. It was quite formative in the development of poetry throughout the European continent. Do not listen to stupid "Rock Music"

>> No.3144458

>>3144451
It appears to me more likely that you are projecting an image of yourself onto others, in attempt to lessen your own feelings of inferiority

>> No.3144456

>>3144450

>1945 - 1973.

>2012

Pick one to live in. Oh wait, you can't.

>> No.3144460

>>3144454
But... It feels so good to be a gangsta

>> No.3144471

>>3144454

Why did you put rock music in quotes? I don't see what you're trying to do there

>> No.3144478

Some suggest that he's amongst the country's greatest poets.

In short, yes.

>> No.3144492

Dare I ask about Roger Waters?

>> No.3144496

Written out, it's probably indiscernible from most of the other bullshit that gets hailed as genius.

>> No.3144503

>>3144439
Did you enjoy your weekend?

Guess why you have one. DAMN RIGHT, THE FUCKING UNIONS, they fought for your weekend. And that's literally why we don't work 7 days a week, you can look it up if you don't believe me.

Unions are as outdated as weekends, and decent pay, and not getting buggered by your boss or randomly fired.

>> No.3144509

>>3144478
Those people tend not to read actual poetry.

Bob Dylan was a talented musician and songwriter. He was not a poet. The same is true for Roger Waters, Paul Simon, etc.

>> No.3144512

>>3144509
Shut the fuck up Franz, you don't know shit about poetry.

>> No.3144513

>>3144509

Roger Waters was not good in any way.

Syd Barret>

>> No.3144518

>>3144513
Everything memorable that Pink Floyd did was done under the leadership of Roger Waters

>> No.3144520

>>3144492
Pink Floyd is my favorite band.

Bob Dylan has my second favorite musical catalogue.

I'm in the crowd that suggests Dylan is a brilliant poet... and while I love Waters' lyrics, they aren't good poetry. They're very good at what they are, which is bombastic and grandiose lyrics.

They're better than a ton of "poetry" but I wouldn't consider them great.

>> No.3144526

>>3144503
Wow, American unions hold a global monopoly on weekends. I always thought other countries had them too. In fact, I thought it was very hard to get the more religious ones to work, you know, with Sunday being a day of rest and all.

>> No.3144528

>>3144439
>>3144503

Guys... we should know by now to take a balanced approach to all issues. Opposing opinions both exist for a valid reason usually.

Unions have done negative and positive things.

>> No.3144529

>>3144518

And everything good that Pink Floyd did was done under the leadership of Syd Barret.

Memorable does not equal good. Just because it got radio play doesn't mean its better.

>> No.3144532

>>3144509
I guess a professor of poetry at Oxford doesn't read much real poetry, eh?

>> No.3144533

>>3144518
>>3144520
I saw Roger Waters doing the Wall live. Holy mother of fuck. I had been depressed my entire life that I would never get to see the wall get build but I did, and god damn was it glorious.

>> No.3144534

>>3144529
So edgy

>> No.3144535

>>3144509

How is "The Boxer" not poetry, really?

>> No.3144543

>>3144529
Have you even listened to Meddle?

>> No.3144544

>>3144534

>having an opinion about a bands original frontman equates to being edgy

/lit/ logic

>> No.3144546

>>3144535

I am just a poor boy
Though my story's seldom told
I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles such are promises
All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest

>> No.3144548

>>3144503
You're a fucking retard.
People have never worked 7 days a week. The Sabbath has always been a day of rest.

>>3144528
I am not saying that unions are good/bad. I am saying they are outdated. They no longer have the political or economic power they used to.

Management won. Deal with it.

>> No.3144552

Archibald MacLeish thought Dylan was one of the best poets of his generation. Why would you take /lit/ seriously?

>> No.3144555
File: 77 KB, 960x541, inthemotherfuckingflesh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3144555

>>3144533
I saw it from the floor level on 2 hits of acid.

It was perfect.

>> No.3144557
File: 32 KB, 439x289, 1351770694125.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3144557

Yes. /lit/ (and I'm sure this applies to most 4chan boards) is still under the infantile assumption that by criticizing everything bar the very greatest/obscure works, this somehow translates into some artistic credibility on its part.

(Tell me, honestly, that "It's Alright, Ma" or "A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall" doesn't qualify as good poetry)

>> No.3144560

>>3144548
You're not very good at history are you?

>> No.3144562

>>3144555
>>3144533
>The rehearsals convinced me it wasn't something I wanted to be doing a lot of. There have been all sorts of farewell moments in people's lives and careers which they have then rescinded, but I think I can fairly categorically say that there won't be a tour or an album again that I take part in. It isn't to do with animosity or anything like that. It's just that ... I've been there, I've done it.
And yet he's still touring an album they made three decades ago.

>> No.3144565

>>3144560

You must not have gone to college.

Look, I can make meaningless contrived statements as well.

>> No.3144566

As you write that post saying that Unions are outdated. European Unions called for a general strike. From what is coming out, almost all sectors of society are facing 90 to 100% of strikers.
This was organized by Unions and the people clearly still follow them.

>> No.3144567

I'ts like when two shitstorms collide! Whoa~!

>> No.3144570

>>3144562
David Gilmour said that.

Waters has expressed willingness to tour again. So has Mason. Gilmour is the the one holding it back.

I think Wright's death really ensured that the remaining members wouldn't do another full tour together though.

>> No.3144572

>>3144548

>The American concept of the weekend has its roots in labor union attempts to accommodate Jewish workers who took Saturday instead of Sunday as their Sabbath.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workweek_and_weekend#Reform

Now who's the fucking retard, asshole? I told you to look it up.

Management won some battles, but since we still have weekends, rights and safe workplaces, you can be damn sure they haven't yet won the war.

>> No.3144583

>>3144566
>Implying we know the results of the strike already
>Implying that there will be any results
>Implying that strikes in Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece - all failed countries/economies for one reason or another, matter whatsoever.
>Implying Germans will strike
>Implying the French will strike
>Implying Britons will strike

>shiggididiggity

>> No.3144588
File: 19 KB, 303x400, bob.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3144588

>>3144572

>Pretending that the weekend wasn't a result of the Industrial Revolution and the supplantation of human labor by machine labor.

>> No.3144589

>>3144572
And in any case, management's always been a bit of a paper tiger. The only reason why they ever win anything is because everybody expects them to.

Also, because they manage the papers. I went on a march with 500,000 UK union members, and because it was orderly and peaceful, it barely got a mention in the press. Won't stop us generally striking though :) Let's see Cameron fix his own fucking appendix when his doctor's on the picket line.

>> No.3144591

>>3144572
So we already had a one day weekend. Until the Jews decided to slow our labour market by 4 days a month.

>> No.3144598

>>3144588
Wait, aside from the fact that you just replied to my sourced historical fact with a contradiction that smells mighty nutty, that doesn't even make sense. If you were a factory owner (and this is actually what they did) and you've bought a fancy new machine, and you've trained a dude to opperate it, you want to have it running constantly. So why the fuck would you want a weekend where you have to pay people overtime?

>> No.3144599

>>3144591
>>3144589
>>3144588
>>3144583
>>3144572
>>3144566
>>3144570
>>3144562
>>3144544
>>3144543

Well the faggots arguing over unions and the faggots arguing over Pink Floyd are both faggots. Thread ruined.

>> No.3144615

>>3144598

You sure are dense huh?

>> No.3144624

>>3144598
>sourced historical fact
Wikipedia isn't a source

>contradiction that smells mighty nutty
What?

>that doesn't even make sense
Machines do in one hour what humans can do in five. Therefore, you don't need as many human hours. Make sense?

>If you were a factory owner
Oh god here we go

>and you've bought a fancy new machine
lol go on

>and you've trained a dude to opperate it,
type over looked

>you want to have it running constantly.
Over-generalization

>So why the fuck would you want a weekend where you have to pay people overtime?
Your general lack of an adequate knowledge of how business works is appalling. You will never make it in academia.

>> No.3144644

>>3144338

Plain bad.

>>3144351

False.

>> No.3144647

>>3144405
Jeff Mangum.

inb4 go back to /mu/ hate

>> No.3144648

>>3144644
Eat shit.

>> No.3144657

>>3144624
>Wikipedia isn't a source
Well, there's a source on the page. I'm not going to compose an accademic-quality bib. to prove to you something obvious and well documented.

>What?

You pulled it out of your ass.

>Make sense?
You don't understand what you're talking about. If you were trying to do a given job, say build a single car, your logic would hold. If you're trying to make money, it doesn't. You've bought a machine, and you're now producing a shitload of (say) needles. Needles value are going to drop like hell, so you're going to need to make more and more of them, and take over more of the market to turn the same profit. Therefore, simply turning out the same number of needles as you did before is going to result in somebody else with the same machine taking all your customers, and your business becoming non-competitive.

You're trying not to understand, but it's very obvious. You have a very expensive machine, like a CNC router. Any time it sits idle is time it's not paying back the loan you took out to buy it.

Running it less is retarded.

PS: If you really can't understand the fairly obvious logic here, just consult a few history books, and you'll find that the strategy of trying to run the machines all the time is exactly what industrialists did and still do. Dickbag.

>> No.3144673

>>3144657
>Econ 101

>> No.3144713

Try Dylan Thomas. His poems are magical. Bob Dylan changed his name because of Dylan Thomas

>> No.3144749

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABePCWgh_oA

>> No.3144752

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8hjEYTpwE8

>> No.3144753

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZKD8aQy71A

He actually dreamed this and wrote it down. He looked at it in the morning and was blown away.

>> No.3144758
File: 978 KB, 686x570, 1330296157903.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3144758

>>3144311
No, they're amazing songwriting. Songwriting is literature, by the way.

>>3144364
His opinions about things are often pretty terrible. He himself never claimed to be an outsider, people gave him that label. I mean, if you're confused about this remember that he's a born again Christian, like a lot of other baby boomers.

>>3144567
This is the only place anyone can discuss labor history or unions without a bunch of retards from /pol/ showing up to shit up the thread with their Austrian horse shit. Same with Pink Floyd and /mu/. I'm fine with the derail.

>> No.3144764

This is a /mu/ related question, but has anyone tried mashing up Dylan and Prince songs together? Might capture the schizoid nature of Minnesota.

>> No.3144765

>>3144647
I agree. Advance toward me, brethren.

>> No.3144768

>>3144764
I had no idea Prince was from Minnesota. What do you mean by schizoid nature?

>> No.3144772

Hmmmm. Good poetry? Intellectually, no. Ezra Pound and TS Eliot (both of whom Dylan despised) fighting in the Captains...sorry. Pound and Eliot were probably more intellectually challenging than anything Dylan wrote.

Compared to the Romantics, no. Dylan cheated quite a bit on meter. Keats would have disowned him.

Was he the best lyricist of the sixties and seventies? Hell yes.

At his peak, and (even some with some of his post peak stuff like Blind Willie McTell) he was capable of some witty epigrams and asute observation on American culture and history. And at his best there was genuine outsider honesty. But even at his peak he could be a bit of a dope, see "Just Like a Woman"

>> No.3144776

>>3144362
>>3144362
>>3144362

>> No.3144778

>>3144362
This thread disproves your assertion.

>> No.3144779

>>3144768
If you're not familiar with Minnesota, for me it's like being caught in the zipper of hell in the Bible belt.

If you objectively look at the styles of Bob Dylan and Prince, to me it's very polarizing, they are at least opposites. The only thing that links them is their Christianity.

>> No.3144783

>>3144778
I lol'd

>> No.3144790

>>3144779
Well, to one up that a bit - I'm from Missouri, so the contrast here is even more stark. You have the most boring parts of the Midwest in the north and southwest, the trashiest parts of the bible thumping, Ozark mountains hill billy South in the southeast and the worst type of rust belt urban decay in Kansas City and St. Louis. Also all our great musicians are dead, except Chuck Berry. ;-;

Fuck your squarehead homesteaders and their Jew and Negro minstrels.

>> No.3144794

>>3144790
I think in Minnesota is where their penises touch.

>> No.3144798
File: 79 KB, 604x265, 1335281215101.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3144798

>>3144794
Hot

>> No.3144830

He's a less scholarly Rimbaud.

He's an obnoxious little punk bastard with a big mouth and god bless him.

He told the truth about America a lot.

Himself and his inability to keep his pants zipped even when married....well....just dont listen to him about love or women. He's kind of blind to his own dickishness there.

>> No.3144847
File: 9 KB, 263x200, 1352433269404.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3144847

>>3144830

>He's an obnoxious little punk bastard with a big mouth

Remind you of anyone?

>> No.3144852

>>3144830

>He's a less scholarly Rimbaud.

its almost like his main focus was being a musician

>> No.3144861

>>3144847
Yeah, Rimbaud

>> No.3144872

>>3144830
Yeah, he's incredibly self-righteous and loves pointing his finger everywhere but at himself.

As he got older it was almost like he said "How could I possibly be anymore of a self-righteous prick than I already am?" and became a born-again Christian.

I still adore him. His bitterness at anyone who crossed him produced some great work.

>> No.3144873

>>3144861

Embracing angst until the bitter end, eh?

That's cute.

>> No.3144878

>>3144873

It's all I have left in my poor excuse of a life.

>> No.3144901

>>3144873
Not sure what you're getting at. Dylan's a little guy with a big mouth. In a way I admire him for shooting his mouth off as often as he did. But I don't think I'm far-fetched in saying the man has a bit of Napolean syndrome to him.

>> No.3144914

>>3144852
He was a mediocre musician though. Thank god for Kooper, Robertson and Bloomfield.

Yes he chose music over academia and yes it was probably where his gifts were better suited...I was jus answering the question posed to me.

>> No.3144927

I prefer more direct, political folk songs to Dylan's quasi-poetry.

>> No.3144931

>>3144873
You're missing ust the love. I love the litle fucker. Okay? I see the limitations....fame fucks up everybody. But he is one of my heroes. He's this little middle class twerp who just happens to write rock songs better than anybody before or since.....
But he can be stupid at times...
he can be a dick at times....
but he is a hero of mine.

>> No.3144972

>>3144931
I do like how the standard applied to Bob Dylan is entire different when applied to other rock stars.

It's like there's an expectation that "smarter" people are more moral or less prone to making life mistakes/causing drama. Bob Dylan is a multi-millionaire rockstar. He doesn't give a shit about what you think.

Neither did DFW, nor does Zizek, or Brett Easton Ellis, or Palanuik, or Tao fucking Lin, or any other author

>> No.3145007

>>3144972
No. I'm a fan. Practically an idolator. He treated Sara bad. If I was there when he introduced his mistress to his wife, I would have broke the little fucker's jaw.

Treating the mother of his children like that...I lost respect for him as a man. In some ways he is very old school patriarchal (this from a man who gets really annoyed by feminists who think they would get a better deal from nature than patriarchal culture) but Dylan can be old school to the point of being blind to his own dickishness....

>> No.3145016

>>3145007
No I know, I was just saying that people rag on his personal life (or those of other cultural figures) like it changes his songs or something. It's the contemporary cult of celebrity I guess.

>> No.3145030

>>3144972
Same fagging. Well he is who he is. I know he doesn't care what I think, that's why I would have just right hooked him, (Im a southpaw). Lets face it, he's going to out-intellectual me, might as well just leap right to violence and punch him.

>> No.3145032

>>3145007
Yeah... it's fucked up that the man who wrote something as beautiful as the song "Sara" could have treated that same woman so poorly.

Not to mention the way he treated Joan Baez and evidently Edie Sedgewick. It makes the vitriol in his songs seem weirder.

>> No.3145048

>>3145016
Oh. No. His inability to keep his pants zipped takes nothing away from Blowin in the Wind or Oxford Town or Only a Pawn in Their Game. Civil Rights wise Dylan was still 99 out of 100. But when you get to Ballad in Plain D or Idiot Wind, remember he was more sinning against than sinned against.

People kind of revel in Dylan's misogyny but he was a short unathletic prick who got some cover girl beauties than bad mouthed them after the fact. And he had Sara, who did really love him and he treated her awful.

>> No.3145050

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyoMn22Sfj4

This song hits me hard every time.

>> No.3145078

>>3145048
Idiot Wind is my favorite Dylan song.

It's loaded with bitterness but at least he turns the finger back at himself at the end. It's not equitable, but it's a lot for him.

>> No.3145090

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9EFGb5sgGo

>> No.3145102

>>3145090
Bloody awful.

>> No.3145107
File: 39 KB, 346x258, 1350685696236.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3145107

>>3145102
I can't relate to someone who dislikes Minutemen. Hint: they're not ripping on Bob Dylan

>> No.3145116

Fuck off, /mu/

>> No.3145120
File: 37 KB, 499x205, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3145120

>>3145102
There is no reason to dislike Minutemen.

>> No.3145124

>>3145107
It's not my style. The only punk I really enjoy listening to is the Dead Kennedys.

>> No.3145126

>>3145124
Huh, then I'd think they would be up your alley. The sound quality on that song sucks too. Have you heard other stuff by them?

>> No.3145145

>>3145126
Nah, that was the first thing I ever heard so with that small a sample size, my judgment means nothing.

>> No.3145302

mandatory every bob dylan thread about this subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0OdNY8Aybw

>> No.3145308

His lyrics are cleverly written and meaningful but far from the quality of classic poetry. I like him I really do, but I don't think we should take it too far. He's alright,

>> No.3145353

>>3145302
That's beautiful.

>> No.3145591

>>3145302

wow

>> No.3145699

He had awesome potential as a poet, especially being friends with Allen Fucking Ginsberg. But he decided to be a whinny little bitch and blow it because he didn't want to be seen as a try-hard. I'm also convinced he wrote some shit just to confuse the fuck out of people and make them think he was deep:

"Now you see this one-eyed midget. Shouting the word "NOW". And you say, "For what reason?" And he says, "How?" And you say, "What does this mean?" and he says back you're a cow! Give me some milk or else go home!"

Come on Bob.

>> No.3145704

>>3145699
fuck ginsberg

>> No.3145707

>>3145302
Thank you for this.

>> No.3145708

>>3145704

Ginsberg was a God. I'd like to see you elaborate.

>> No.3145713

>>3145699
>Mr Jones
>Not seeing that it's about a man having an unexpected sexual encounter with a homosexual and freaking out

Come on, dude. Innuendo?

>> No.3145728

>>3145699


>Mr. Jones
that faggot journalist that Dylan hated

>one-eyed midget
cock, or camera

>shouting the word NOW
pose for the camera, get your cock out

>what reason, how, what does this mean
to be an object of journalism, or to get your cock sucked

>you're a cow! give me some milk or else go home
you're public property either be part of journalism (cock sucking) or stop being a public figure


come on, babby

>> No.3145771

>>3144405
Stephin merrit of magnetic keys is great.
Also John darnielle of the mountain goats.
iisac brock of modest mouse can sometimes have great lyrics, sometimes.
As someone said earlier, jeff mangum is pretty good too.

>> No.3145776

>>3145771
>magnetic fields

ftfy

>> No.3145781

Woody Guthrie is miles better and his poetry is pretty good

>> No.3145798

Jeff Mangum, hands down.

>> No.3145809

>>3145798

You forgot to quote the post you're replying to because if you're replying to the OP than your post doesn't make any sense.

>> No.3145811

I'm still pissed that that guy thought I was talking about some rock band, when I was really referring to medieval musician poets

>> No.3145814

>>3145811

That was me. This is weird.

Sup bud?

>> No.3145822

>>3145814
Yo. Just postin' on the 'chan. And yourself?

>> No.3145831

>>3145822

Reading my first book ever. The Stranger. I'm new to /lit/.

>> No.3145838

>>3145831
That's a good one. You should check out The Plague after that. It's even better.

>> No.3145873

>>3145776
thanks, not sure how I managed to mess that up.

>> No.3146663

Is there much good live footage of Dylan outside of No Direction Home and The Other Side of the Mirror?

>> No.3146681

>>3144405
brassens, leo ferrer, flaco spinetta

>> No.3147021

>>3146663
The filmed concerts at Albert Hall in 1966 and all the Newport Folk Festivals.