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/lit/ - Literature

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3138763 No.3138763[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

A question for /lit/....

Is a BA in Philosophy utterly and completely impractical? I came into school as a Mathematics/Physics major, but the doldrums of "learning" via rote memorization in the classroom have set in. I really enjoy learning through argumentation and correspondence, and I enjoy philosophy, so I think it would be four years I could actually get through. On the other hand, though, I don't want to waste my time and my parents' money on an absolutely useless degree when I could have learned the information independently.

>> No.3138771

A BA in anything is useless, you want a BSc

>> No.3138778

If you really want to stop studying what you're studying now, then just drop out and get a job
You can learn about Philosophy on your own time.

>> No.3138785

>>3138778

It's something I seriously considered, but for general job acquisition after college, I've heard that it doesn't really matter what your Bachelor's degree is in, but rather, that you simply have one in the first place. I'd like to have an income that I can support myself on.

>> No.3138797

>>3138785
Don't need much to support yourself depending on the lifestyle you lead.

>> No.3138808

Any degree is better than no degree. Philosophy isn't going to land you a great job out of the gate like a physical therapist may be set up for. This is coming from a 2010 English grad, who's struggling to find good full time work (good as in, anything salary as opposed to hourly pay.)

That said, you'll be at an advantage at the interview process, I believe. You'll be a well educated/cultured man/woman. You'll hopefully know more about yourself, and what you believe in. That type of knowledge isn't as likely to be found if you're studying business.

Don't drop out. A college degree is the new high school diploma. It's not worth shutting all those doors. Get your BA. As long as you feel you are learning.

That's what I think, anyway. But I'm just one guy.

>> No.3138818

If you think math and physics and other sciences are "rote memorization" then you're getting the doldrums in your first year or two of study.

Protip: anything useful has a lot of memorization to get the foundations of what's needed to do the fun stuff.

>> No.3138891

>>3138818
As a former dropout, I will second this. Once an educational foundation is laid, things start to better.

>> No.3138991

You don't learn math and physics through rote memorization. Just admit you're too dumb to be a stem major.

>> No.3139015

>>3138991

Yeah, of the sciences physics and maths involve the least memorization.

My advice is to do what you love OP. Money is useless if you aren't happy, and a big part of being happy is not doing shit that you hate. That goes for study and career. If you've got an idea as to what you'll enjoy doing when you get out of school, why not just start applying for that now, and drop school? The extra years of experience will be an advantage over fresh grads.

You can study philosophy perfectly well outside university however. Sage because this isn't /adv/.

>> No.3139047

I'd say that I wouldn't spend my time and money on a philosophy major if I thought my parents expected me to go to college for an employable major.

Thankfully I went on government money for philosophy. You'll need to go to school for developing writing skills, research skills etc. I feel bad for anyone who's only time with philosophy has been reading alone since discussing it and learning about different areas with grad students is the shit.

>> No.3139049

>>3139047

>who's instead of whose

fuck me

>> No.3139060

>>3138763
>the doldrums of "learning" via rote memorization in the classroom have set in

Chill the fuck out, freshman.

>> No.3139097

>>3138763
Well, it may prepare you for many career paths. If you want to pursue law, there is no better undergraduate degree than a degree in philosophy. If you are interested in mathematics, then a philosophy/mathematics degree will be very fulfilling. A mathematics degree has one of the best job after graduation statistics. Also, most business look for graduates from liberal arts majors. In fact, philosophy has a better job after graduation rate than business degrees. Look it up if you don't believe me. Many people try to put down philosophy as being impractical and useless but it really is just about the most useful degree you can get. What does an employer want to see in an application? Answer: A person who can think critically and who has the skills needed in the work environment. Now ask yourself, what is philosophy primarily concerned with? You guessed it, critical thinking and writing. I suggest pulling off a mathematics/philosophy double major.

>> No.3139102

>>3139047
I completely agree with this. Most people who attempt to "self teach" themselves philosophy end up misinterpreting arguments and views of many philosophers.

>> No.3139106

>>3139102
Then what is the best way to teach myself philosophy?

>> No.3139109

>>3139106
Ignore these kids. They are paying for people to teach them and are obviously biased and liable to reject the idea of doing it for free.

>> No.3139121

>>3139106
Well, if you want to learn a craft like carpentry, would you not go to a carpenter and ask to be his apprentice? Now, if you want to be a philosopher or learn philosophy, would you not go to a philosopher to learn the craft of philosophy? I mean, you could self teach yourself mathematics, however, without any help, I doubt the majority of people could get past basic calculus. The analogous example can be drawn with philosophy. That is why many "self taught" philosophers are stagnant with their reading and ideas. For example, everyone knows of Heidegger and every "self taught" philosopher cannot help but quote him in ever argument they come across. However, a philosopher who was academically trained would have been introduced to many other philosophers who have better techniques to solving problems than silly old Heidegger.

>> No.3139155

>>3139106
Ignore above. Read classic works. Read classic interpretations of classic works. Debate. You got it!

>> No.3139156

>>3139155

Boy needs some Foucault, Lacan and Marx in him to boot

>> No.3139161

>>3139156
There can only ever be one Žižek.

>> No.3139171

>>3139121
>silly old Heidegger
I can see you're a little bitter about not understanding Heidegger.

>> No.3139172

>>3138763
This tread is filled with blundering idiots. >>3139155
>>3139156
>>3139161
Are you kidding me? Yeah, I can see all the intellectual advancement already. I never knew philosophy could gather such sheep. Do you not realize that their philosophy is simplistic and lacks almost all rigor? What is wrong about academic philosophy? You are all sheep people and it is hilarious. You do realize they exploit your ignorance and inability to analyze an argument, right? I mean, I am not the only one to voice such disgust with the pseudo-intellectual branch of philosophy. Google Chomsky's critique. This pop-philosophy is the most shameful and intellectually dishonest movement I can think of. Sheep people, you are all sheep people.

>> No.3139173

>>3139172

You're arguing that Foucault and Marx haven't put forth legitimate arguments? And not in jest?

I'd call you a sheep in kind, but I don't share your proclivity for buzzword

>> No.3139174

>>3139171
No misunderstanding, I just can weave through bullshit really well. If you want to read a good destruction of his horse shit philosophy, read Carnap's Elimination of Metaphysics Through the Logical Analysis of Language. It relies on the notion of analyticity, however, with small configurations, the same argument can be made without such a reliance. Each shit sheep.

>> No.3139177

>>3139097
>In fact, philosophy has a better job after graduation rate than business degrees. Look it up if you don't believe me.
Where do you get this? I'm looking but can't find a list or anything.

>> No.3139180

>>3139173
I will let Marx slide. He was vital to the development of modern political theory. I should have explicitly said "What I write does not apply to Marx". However, my criticisms do apply to Foucault, as to the criticisms of Chomsky.

>> No.3139181

>>3139174

A wild positivist? In 2012? Sure is lazy thinking itt

>> No.3139184

>>3139180

What's your critique of Foucault's writings on post-structuralism and his theories of power distribution?

>> No.3139197

>>3139181
How could I possibly be a "wild" positivist if I just mentioned the death of the analytic/synthetic distinction? Go throw mud somewhere else or offer up a critique. Stop assuming what is not stated. I am not a fucking stoic but I will offer a stoic critique if someone presented an Epicurean argument. That is how arguments work. You present a position. I present mine. Then we find common ground if we are honest. Now read the fucking article!

>> No.3139199

>>3139172
The point was that reading Foucault, Lacan and Marx would produce "yet another Žižek" neh?

>> No.3139201

>>3139177
http://philosophy.unc.edu/undergraduate-program/why-major-in-philosophy

>> No.3139240

Analytical and Continental philosophy are two entirely different and distinct kinds of dumb and irrelevant.

>> No.3139256

>>3139240
Analytic philosophy takes everything interesting about philosophy and puts it under a microscope. It's boring and tedious but after 3 years in a relatively rigorous philosophy program , you really begin to notice how you approach things.

Reading philosophy actually rewires your brain, for the better.

>> No.3139278
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3139278

>>3139256
Homunculus argument here we come.

>> No.3139287

>>3139278
I don't understand your post, but it sounds interesting.

>>3139256
I'm reasonably sure that any 'rewiring' you experience would be far more beneficial if you studied math, physics, or cs instead.

>> No.3139293

>>3139287
Not really. I study CS and most CS majors are fucking stupid outside of anything that involves computer software or hardware, if even within their discipline. Mathematics is good for the mind to study, on the other hand.

>> No.3139322

>Is a BA in Philosophy utterly and completely impractical?

If you enjoy it as you say you do. Carry on. It'd be far better to do something, anything you enjoy for 3/4 years rather than sitting in an engineering, science or mathematics classroom for the same amount of time bored to tears.

>> No.3139379

>>3139293
I would like to call bs on that, cs is supposedly mostly math, little software (from the user side) and almost no hardware.

>> No.3139391

It's easier to do an arts subject when you're 18 and come back as a mature student to do maths/science than vice versa.

>> No.3139395

>>3138763
>impractical

what is your criteria to define that? philosophy can be something practical or something useless depending on how you use it. it is just a tool.

>> No.3139401

>>3139395

He means "will people give me money because I have it".

>> No.3139441

>>3139379
>I would like to call bs on that, cs is supposedly mostly math, little software (from the user side) and almost no hardware.

Technically true, but if you're attending a shitty college, you can coast through a CS curriculum by only pretending to know math.

>> No.3139457

It entirely depends. My father got a BA in Philosophy and used that to earn his way into free grad school, because of his knowledge of politics. As long as you can find something to focus in, just work at it and make yourself known.

>> No.3139525

Double major like me OP.

Make your second major something you are interested in that people will pay you to know.

I'm doing Philosophy/Geology but you could do Math, physics, or something else 'practical'

>> No.3139595
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3139595

>>3139201
>http://philosophy.unc.edu/undergraduate-program/why-major-in-philosophy
>tfw I study philosophy at unc

>> No.3139606

>>3138763
>Implying that a degree should be taken for any reason other than love of the subject
>Implying that a degree is for 'practical' uses in modern society
>Implying that a degree will ever earn you money compared to someone with experience outside of specialist fields

At least you'll be above the english lit fags