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/lit/ - Literature

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3094577 No.3094577 [Reply] [Original]

Quick question about Ham on Rye.
What chapter was it where Hank has a discussion about writing with a friend, then they get into a fist fight? Shortly after Pearl Harbour happens.
I need to reference the chapter number but I lent my copy to a friend and I can't find it online anywhere.
Thank you!

Also, discuss Ham on Rye.

>> No.3094588

chapter 55

>> No.3094604

>>3094588
I was sure it was in the 50's! Thank you, sir.

>> No.3094623

my favorite part is when he loses to that mexican kid in the penny arcade

>> No.3094628

>>3094623
I thought it was building to him smacking the shit out of the kid.

>> No.3094675

I felt dirty reading this, like I needed to clean myself.

It wasn't a enjoyable read, It's meant to be depressing and usually I find works that are made to depressing the opposite but yeah, not this time.

It's made me never want to read Bukowski, is it all like this?

>> No.3094682
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3094682

>> No.3094685

>>3094675
Really? It wasn't that depressing, Jeez..

>> No.3094697
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3094697

>> No.3094706

>>3094685
It was to me man.
It depressed me to see how extremely petty and abusive and un-compassionate people are. His father making him do the lawn reminded me of shit from my childhood.

It also made me think how many children have had the same treatment and much much worse from their parents and forms of authority. It was depressing to remember when I was child I hated when I knew adults were wrong about something but because they are adults they felt they could not be criticized by children and double standards. We can talk back to you but you can't to me.

That childhood part just made me think about how many human's are out there pretty fucked up because most adults are jaded arseholes with inflated ego's that don't want anyone to be happy if they aren't.

Then there was all his acne/boil problems which he spent a lot of time on, which I can't see as being an enjoyable thing to read and think of, I got very graphic images of his boils being popped and of course I've had acne before and could feel how self conscious he must have been ever single time he interacted with humans, imagining they are just staring at his acne, also they hurt him a fuck load.

And he wasn't the nicest guy, he was a bit of a bully which is depressing to see the bullied become the bully. He was a mucho brute and pretty much became a caveman at the end of the day.

It was like reading a trailer park memoir, everything dirty, I could imagine the world as a big puss filled, oiley world, dripping down the walls, with a stagnant air.

I didn't like Bukowski and any other character and yeah, it depressed me.

>> No.3094719

>>3094706
Damn man, that's a really good review!
I loved the book, though.

>> No.3094722

>>3094706
Children lack the will to power that defines adults.

Attain power, then you can treat other people however you want to. No need to feel depressed, unless you feel powerless.

>> No.3094736

>>3094675
All of his stuff is pretty depressing, he's not a happy man.

>> No.3094758

>>3094722
That's kind of bullshit and kind of what I was wanting to express but couldn't think of how to put it.

It's like when you're a child you notice adults play games and then you become a adult and realize you're involuntarily playing games.

So for what you're responding to. The adult is wrong and tell's the child they are wrong. The child know's he's right but can not even respond to the adult because of "don't talk back". To me that seems to be an example of a flaw in that adult, they're so egotistical that they can't have a child be right and them wrong, they can't show a weakness. And this isn't cave man times, showing a weakness won't get you killed.

>> No.3095012

>>3094758
What's right and wrong are just opinions, like good and bad in literature.

Don't focus on them. Create your own meaning. Other people do not matter.

>> No.3095023

>>3095012
he just did that you stupid nihilist scum

you are wrong, nietzsche proved you wrong and science means jack shit

>> No.3095032

>>3094722
>sociopath detected

>implying will to power is actually about power itself and not being active

>> No.3095134

>>3095012
Yeah man there are, like everything I can think of, hypocritical points to what you and I are saying. You say "Attain power, then you can treat other people however you want to" Like you're telling me that's the thing I should do, that's just your opinion, I can see flaws in your idea.

The way I find right and wrong is if you want that action done to you. There are flaws in that I think but everything has a flaw currently so it's the best I can come up with.

Elaborate on "Other people do not matter." ? how far do you take that?

>> No.3095150

>>3095012
And yeah I kind of was doing what you're saying, like>>3095023 said.

I was showing an example of a way teachers and parents treat children that is pretty general practice and I was trying to go against that and find my own way of dealing with situations.