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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 12 KB, 245x300, Frans_Hals_-_Portret_van_René_Descartes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3087495 No.3087495[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Three issues with Descartes' Ontological argument:

1. Concepts do not identify with the reality of an external object (mind --> concept--> object problem). Therefore claiming that a concept entails the existence of a corresponding reality is implausible.

2. Perfection does not entail existence. If fact, it is more logical to assert that existence cannot identify with perfection.

3. If Monism is correct, then a being of pure spirit is implausible. And if Dualism is correct, the only relevant beings in the physical universe would be those of dualistic nature, because they are the only ones capable of affecting change within the physical universe, thereby making God arbitrary.

>> No.3087499
File: 15 KB, 300x300, Dara Ó Briain.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3087499

I'm more of a La Géométrie kinda guy.

>> No.3087500

>>3087495
The ontological argument is not by descartes.

>> No.3087502

Why still talk about this? There was a time in what? the 15-18 centuries that every intellectual gave it a shot. it always boiled down to the same thing (Anselm's), just reworded for time. Kind of like a remake of an old movie. it was just a mental exercise because the popular hobby at the time was theology.

>> No.3087523
File: 49 KB, 400x400, 1344063182910.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3087523

>>3087495
Bro...ich kenne das Gefuehl.

>> No.3087524
File: 161 KB, 803x886, HOGAN.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3087524

>>3087500
>Descartes' Ontological argument:

lol m8 do you even philosophy

>> No.3087529

The perfect toilet is perfect in every way

It is more perfect to exist than not to exist

The perfect toilet exists


Any ontological argument is garbage in my opinion, it can easily be twisted to prove the existence of any hypothetical object/spirit/dildo or whatever the fuck you want

>> No.3087538

>>3087529
>It is more perfect to exist than not to exist

This always irked me in theology classes, such as Anselm or St. Bernard's works. I never understood why existence in more 'perfect' than non-existence.

>> No.3087542

>>3087538
I know, its plain silly. I was obviously using "prove" in a loose sense of the word as if we were assuming the premises were even true. Which in itself is assuming a little too much.

To anyone else, I would be genuinely interested in any arguments that you feel does prove (to you at least) the existence of God for the sake of discussion inb4 edgy atheist

>> No.3087545

>>3087529
Well this criticism does not work.

Because the argument goes "something that has all the positive attributes, has to have the attribute of perfection" so unless you define god as that which has all the positive attributes it does not work.

Of Course it is silly because attributes are human inventions.

>> No.3087554

>>3087542
Yeah, I know you were just presenting the argument...but I am honestly curious as to what the defense or further refinement of this argument would be. Never really came up in my readings, and it seemed to stem from a Judeo-Christian worldview which posits that life is a gift and 'better' in some regard. But even then, I don't understand this in light of readings from Nietzsche or others who are critical of Christianity as a death-cult.

>>3087545
>Of Course it is silly because attributes are human inventions.

That, too.

>> No.3087584

I laugh till my ribs hurt whenever I read christian mental gymnastics, I really do.

>> No.3087635

>>3087584
woahh! your like so smart!!!

>> No.3087642
File: 12 KB, 587x773, 1344620838960.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3087642

>>3087635
I wish I were smart.

>> No.3087675
File: 1.81 MB, 4800x2760, descartes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3087675

>> No.3087693

>>3087675
what is the story behind this pic? always wondered. and did Descartes really say "give her the dick"?

>> No.3087696

>>3087693
They're comments taken from a Pornhub user called ross53545 on various porn videos on the site. He has Descartes as his profile picture.

>> No.3087706

>>3087693
>did Descartes really say "give her the dick"?
I sincerely hope you are joking.

Wow.

>> No.3087712

>>3087706
so did he?

>> No.3087718

>>3087712
6/10.

Not bad.

>> No.3088474

>>3087500
>>3087524

Descartes' version of the Ontological argument was different than Anselm's. That is what I meant, a particular variety