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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 258 KB, 976x1000, Faulkner-Sound-and-Fury-1000.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2979219 No.2979219[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

You have 10 seconds to explain why this isn't the greatest novel of all time.

>> No.2979222

it's not gravity's rainbow

>> No.2979228

Because you don't know what the fuck is going on half the time.

>> No.2979230

Because portraying a retard isn't the same as writing like one

>> No.2979240

>>2979230
you would know

>> No.2979246

>>2979240
sick burn

>> No.2979250

>>2979240
AhahaHAAAAfaggot

>> No.2979264

>>2979250
Are you a mod yet? This place needs a real cleanup

>> No.2979355

>>2979219
It's 2deep4u modern-art nonsense, designed to 'test the boundaries of traditional art' or somesuch bollocks, not something universal that is meant to stand the test of time.

>> No.2979360

>>2979355
b-b-but good art is supposed to challenge what the medium can or can't be.

you don't just read faulkner. you gots to know how to read him. sound and fury is a maze of cryptic shit going on. it's incredible. you can read it for a story on the one hand, but there is so much more going on.

>> No.2979361

>>2979360
> b-b-but good art is supposed to challenge what the medium can or can't be.

Lolwhat? Who told you that?

Your shit Eng-lit professor? You should ask for a refund on your degree.

Good art is universal, it is supposed to speak to people despite their differences in age, social class, ethnicity, education level and historical era.

>> No.2979374

>>2979361
>Good art is universal, it is supposed to speak to people despite their differences in age, social class, ethnicity, education level and historical era.

Lolwhat? Who told you that?

Your shit middle school teacher? You should just quit school now and save this world the trouble.

Lots of Good art was never appreciated in it's own time. Look at Van Gogh or Kafka. Tons more out there. Trying to systematize the nature of good and bad art? i predict failure.

>> No.2979376
File: 75 KB, 384x400, stockphotopro_15611TFC_no_title[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2979376

bought it today, will read it tomorrow, don't know what to expect

>> No.2979379

>>2979374
> Lots of Good art was never appreciated in it's own time. Look at Van Gogh or Kafka. Tons more out there. Trying to systematize the nature of good and bad art? i predict failure.

Why are you so illiterate? Why do you bother to shitpost here if you fail basic reading comprehension of simple internet comments?

Man, you kids are massively tiring me.

I repeat again: good art transcends boundaries of culture and time. This means that, yes, OF COURSE lots of good art is not appreciated in its own time.

The only objective measure of art is its universality. I don't much like it myself, since that leaves out some of the most entertaining fiction, but them's the breaks.

P.S. it's vs. its. Seriously, man?

P.P.S. Summer break must be over, the shitposts suddenly became much stupider and much more self-importantly aggressive.

>> No.2979381
File: 27 KB, 400x500, freakout.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2979381

>>2979374
> it's
ah i fucked up.

>> No.2979395

>>2979381
>ah i fucked up
>i
It's I... and yes that's an important error as well.

>> No.2979396

>>2979379
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

>> No.2979402

>>2979395
i don't use caps on 4chan unless i'm stressing something important.

>Man, you kids are massively tiring me.
then gtfo and don't come back. you think you'll be missed? don't flatter yourself, DUMBASS.

>> No.2979416

Because it's fucking unreadable babble.

>> No.2979430

>>2979379
i'm not the guy you're debating with but i'm actually of the opinion that a lot of great art is culturally specific, and may require certain kinds of learning or training before it can be adequately understood

>> No.2979442

>>2979430
>It's NOT shit - you just don't have the TASTE for shit yet!

>> No.2979497

>>2979430
>i'm not the guy you're debating with but i'm actually of the opinion that a lot of great art is culturally specific, and may require certain kinds of learning or training before it can be adequately understood

Important, entertaining, significant -- but not great. IMO art needs to transcend time, otherwise there's little point in art in the first place.

>> No.2979509

>>2979416

faulkner is the only redeemable part of american literature you thick prole

>> No.2979530

>>2979250

ahh daaam where u been deep, how are the lads? have they let you pitch yet?cheers

>> No.2979533

>>2979497
art only needs to communicate what isn't otherwise communicable through formal language. even in literature words are only a vehicle to take you beyond them. i generally consider literature weak if it doesn't do this for me.

transcending time is nice but unnecessary. even if art can be logically deduced later on, in the process of its creation begins with an impulse and that beginning spark is an abstraction.

>> No.2979545

So if we find some pygmies who don't think much of Shakespeare, Pynchon, or whoever else we nominate for 'great art', then it is no longer universal, failing the empirical test of universality - wait, what the fuck did I just write, emprirical test of universality?

What if the culture becomes so Americanised in the Mcdo sense of the word that people no longer value 'old' great art? Then it also fails your universality test. Then your test applies to no art at all. Then it is superfluous, a concept for which there exists no correlation with life.

>> No.2979555

>>2979497
okay, take shakespeare, for example

anything you read in your high school or college classes required a heavily annotated version that explained the various puns and linguistic games shakespeare was playing. if you read the original documents without comments, you'd be lost on a great part of what makes shakespeare "great."

there is even an annotated version of moby dick now

>> No.2979566

>>2979509
>faulkner is the only redeemable part of american literature you thick prole

No, that would be Ralph Ellison. You pompous nincompoop.

>> No.2979569

>>2979545
Universality is a sliding scale, not a binary indicator.

>> No.2979574

>>2979555
Non-anglophone people read Shakespeare in translation, and that's fine.

In time English will change so much that ostensibly 'English' speakers will need to read Shakespeare in translation too.

No big deal; the Bible or the Iliad are written in mostly dead languages, for example.

>> No.2979575

>>2979555
Are you saying that 'puns and linguistic games' are why Shakespeare is the best writer in the English language?

>> No.2979587

'Universality' is bollocks. People who praise literature because it appeals to them even though it was written hundreds of years ago are just idiots amazed that LOL ANCIENT PEOPLE might have also been human beings. All literature is universal because all literature is written by humans and all human experience is basically the same once you get past the cosmetic differences.

>> No.2979626

>>2979587
> All literature is universal because all literature is written by humans and all human experience is basically the same once you get past the cosmetic differences.

I don't agree.

Once you strip away the cosmetic differences from e.g., Dan Brown, you don't have anything human left.

Compare with Dostoyevky -- he really did express human experiences.

>> No.2979636

>>2979566

fuck off nigger i meant redeemable regarding literary standards not some liberal moral code no one gives a fuck about your historical struggles or the shitty literature that came out of it,swing low, that sweet chariot needs to carry you goddamn neggers back africa, all hail darrel waltrip, white power

>> No.2979640

>>2979566

fuck off nigger i meant redeemable regarding literary standards not some liberal moral code no one gives a fuck about your historical struggles or the shitty literature that came out of it,swing low, that sweet chariot needs to carry you goddamn neggers back to africa, all hail darrel waltrip, white power

>> No.2979656

>>2979219
I can't argue that until I'm more well read. But for now, I'd say yes.

>> No.2979663

>>2979626
They're just different parts of human experience. Everyone can empathise with certain experiences in both works. What makes one great and the other awful is that one of them is abysmally written.

>> No.2979666
File: 38 KB, 407x407, 1347651797836.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2979666

>>2979640
>Stan.

>> No.2979673

>>2979640
'Invisible Man' is the best American book of the 20th century, regardless of whether it is written by a black, white, yellow, blue or purple person.

Also, it's not about historical struggles, it's about the utterly ridiculous masks society forces us to wear if we want to be part of society.

It's barely even about black-white divisions -- it's much more about urban-rural and rich-poor than black-white.

>> No.2979684

>>2979355
>can't find anything universal in the sound and the fury

bahahahaha. plebs abound.

>> No.2979688

bump

>> No.2979697

>>2979673

haha are you serious?
if you're going to defend the book, point to its rather impressive prose,(which will still forever be overshadowed by the likes of fitz and faulkner)..dont defend it by making some dishonest distinction whereby you try to dilute the malcolm x type hatred which permeates the book, but i guess niggers gonna nig, all hail richard petty, white power

>> No.2979702
File: 36 KB, 450x600, laughing.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2979702

>>2979355
>>2979684

>I bet he's never even had a sister!

>> No.2979748

Read the book, and then read Quentin's portion two more times.
I really don't see why people think it's incomprehensible, once you've accomplished that much it articulates a beautifully neurotic narrative.

> Also I know this is probably retarded and plebby because Quentin's a virgin wid rage, but I like imagining that Quentin was obsessed with Caddy's sexuality because he, in some way, really did want to have incest with her. As opposed to it just being emblematic of his disillusionment with the crumbling of southern gentility.

captcha: inches ozeling

>> No.2979749

OP, I can't. It is the best novel ever written.

>> No.2979753

The Quentin part at Harvard. Sweet Jesus that was amazing.

>> No.2979754

>>2979697
All of these guys are great, by my favorite novelist from that period is probably Nathanael West

>> No.2979755

Because As I Lay Dying is better

>> No.2979787

I don't think anybody actually thinks it's incomprehensible, right?

Right?

I mean, fuck. All it takes is the most basic pattern recognition to parse the Benjy chapter and Quentin madness.

>> No.2979808

Once a /lit/ch always a /lit/ch, that's what I say.

>> No.2979817

>>2979219
Because it sucks.

>> No.2979877
File: 26 KB, 300x300, richardpetty-01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2979877

>>2979697

>tfw no handlebar mustache

>> No.2979991

>>2979749

u better not be being sarcastic

>> No.2979999

Because Absalom, Absalom! exists.

>> No.2980005

>>2979748

>crumbling of southern gentility

Why do people keep saying this? The point is that it never existed. Quentin's tragedy is a disappointed fantasy.

>> No.2980007

What's amazing about Faulkner is how much he looks Franzen and co. look like children. It is incredible when people call Franzen's prose style "caffeinated". Faulkner was there earlier, noticing more than what was playing on the radio? He makes them look like children.

>> No.2980024

The south sucked, and the novel changed nothing about that.

>> No.2980032

>>2980024

what the fuck does that have to do with what OP said

>> No.2980097

>>2979355
I haven't yet fully come to terms with The Sound and the Fury, but I know that it's not incomprehensible. The motifs - time, women, race, family - aren't opaque or anything and so I wouldn't be so quick to say it's modern art nonsense. It's difficult, but I disagree that great literary art needs to be accessible to all to be considered universal. It's supposed to extend the reader cognitively and help her to gain new perspective on a culture or an era in a (and this is important) "strange" way. It's a totally imaginative medium, so it needs to stretch certain muscles we're not very good at using these days because of the easier distractions around us.

>> No.2980101

>>2980097
Also, the satisfaction should be when we discover something of our "self" inside that strangeness.

>> No.2980335

>>2980097
it doesnt matter if it isn't universally understood by people who think the movie Inception is "deep"

i get what OP is saying, and I agree that it is the best novel ever written. People who actually have some semblance of literature as an art form will most likely agree.

>> No.2980344
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2980344

pic related

>> No.2980348

Good art doesn't have to be anything.

>> No.2980350
File: 856 KB, 245x140, 3.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2980350

>>2980344

>> No.2981643

book is p good