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/lit/ - Literature

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2919163 No.2919163[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Opinions /lit/? I just finished reading the last publicated book in the ASOIAF series(yes, I know. Completely unrelatable), and need something new to read.

>> No.2919179

It depends.

When reading it for the first time, my reader response was like: "This is the most brilliant satire on fascism and the military possible." when I learned that the author is actually dead serious about this shit and had not intended it to be a satire, I was digusted and never touched it again.

so it depends on two things acutally:

what is your political standpoint?
is authorical intend important to you or not?

>> No.2919208

>>2919179
Rather mixed on my political stand point. I can find the goods on either side of the field. Democratic or authoritarian. Likewise perspective on me perception of the military. There is things I'd do differently, but it serves it purpose. I actually prefer a military structure at times. Its efficiency in getting things done the most regarded aspect. Given I'd have to read the book to understand his staunch on the subject though I suspect it leans to the extremes of what may be called the right field?

>> No.2919242

Wizards First Law rinses ASOIF, trufax.

>> No.2919244

>>2919179
>
When reading it for the first time, my reader response was like: "This is the most brilliant satire on fascism and the military possible." when I learned that the author is actually dead serious about this shit and had not intended it to be a satire, I was digusted and never touched it again
Which is why the Paul Verhoven film is so good.

>> No.2919246

It's a pulp sci fi novel. What do you think c/lit/ thinks about it?

>> No.2919253

>>2919179
Are you sure it wasn't satire? I mean, the view he expresses in 'The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress' is completely opposite.

>> No.2919407

a short but nice article on the topic:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/jul/23/blastingbugsismorecomplicatedthanyouthink

>> No.2919435

Does anyone have a .mobi sitting in their mediafire cloud or whatever the fuck it's called?

I haven't read a good old-fashioned sci-fi for time.

>> No.2919444

>>2919253
Indeed. Heinlein was known to be a fan of saying outrageous things just to provoke thought and loosen people's minds up; one of his characters (I think in "Space Cadet") actually admits to doing just that. After all if he's a fascist, how would you explain "Stranger In A Strange Land?"

>> No.2919486

>>2919253
>>2919444
Certainly. But I think a careful reading of Heinlein's work will show that he did, in fact, believe in some of the things that he included in Starship Troopers. First, he believed in the importance of authority for a stable political system. Second, he believed - strongly believed - that some kind of restriction on suffrage and citizenship was necessary, and that citizenship could not really be universal (although, as to what form the restriction of suffrage should take, he was ambivalent). Third, he believed in the importance of the military and a strong national defense, and in particular he felt that the Soviet Union represented an existential threat to the political society of America / the West / political ideals in which he believed.

I don't know if you want to call that fascism. I don't think it's fascistic, although I can see why someone would say that it was. But I do think that Heinlein believed in those things.

>> No.2919504

>>2919486
Well yeah, I would agree that all of those elements are present and I think he meant it; I don't consider any of that "fascist" and when people start throwing that word around I don't tend to equate it with Heinlein's politics; rather I think of him as a lot closer to libertarian thought than conservative thought (on most topics, probably not all).

>> No.2919519
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2919519

Read Armor by John Steakley if you want something similar, but with less fascism and more horrifying war.
Also, try Joe Abercombie's First Law Trilogy if you liked ASOIF.
>>2919242
>Pic related

>> No.2919522

>>2919242
Shut your fucking mouth. That series is horrible and everything wrong with fantasy. Get the hell out of /lit/.

>> No.2919554

Starship Troopers is actually one of my favorite books, though I openly acknowledge that a lot of it is simply horrendous if taken as-is. As said here,

>>2919486

Those are the three most important points to take from the book, whether you agree with them morally or not. The book actually did a lot to strongly convince me that there needs to be some sort of way for all residents of a nation to effectively "earn" their suffrage through some trial of civic virtue and selflessness, but military service or even a government desk job seems like a poor test for it.

Though Heinlein shows open distaste for Plato's The Republic (and I feel for good reason), it's ironic that the whole point of the book immediately reminds me of a quote from there.

> If you can discover a better way of life than office-holding for your future rulers, a well-governed city becomes a possibility. For only in such a state will those rule who are truly rich, not in gold, but in the wealth that makes happiness--a good and wise life.

>> No.2919562

>>2919522

Don't worry, he's just trolling. If he actually liked the book he would remember its real title.

>> No.2919568

>>2919562
I don't know, that's roughly the level of intelligence I'd expect from people who like that series.