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/lit/ - Literature

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2869999 No.2869999 [Reply] [Original]

Why does /lit/ hate Haruki Murakami?

Sure, his stories don't have much to offer, intellectually, but he's great at creating tone, atmosphere, setting, characterisation. His prose is excellent. (His translated prose, anyway.)

What's the deal, /lit/? Are you just hating on him because you're jealous someone who doesn't have much to say has become successful purely on style?

Is Haruki Murakami the jock of literature?

>> No.2870005

I am jealous of everyone who has more money than me

>> No.2870004

>>2869999
>Is Haruki Murakami the jock of literature?
Hm. Maybe that should have read "rockstar"/"popstar".

>> No.2870006

>>2869999
has the dick been shopped out or is it between his legs?
nvrmnd fapping anyway

>> No.2870026

>>2870006
It's between his legs.

>> No.2870032

Goodbye horses. I'm crying over youuuuuuuu.

>> No.2870044

>>2870032
Q Lazzarus - Goodbye Horses.
Downloading now.
Yikes, what is this? It sounds terrible. Sucky singer.
More importantly:

>What does this have to do with the OP?

>> No.2870047

>>2870044
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTs_TZFjbJ8

>> No.2870053

um excuse me, I really can't pay attention to Murakami right now with that distracting picture.

>> No.2870057

>>2870047
Yes, I already said it's terrible, why did you feel the need to link me to it?

>> No.2870062

Aside from his not having, his never having a point to make, he's just so horribly lacking in imagination. He's a watered-down version of Kafka, but where Kafka took these marvelously retarded ideas and followed through with them (and actually being depressed; Murakami is just an ennui angster), Murakami just invents absurd shit, and introduces it from nowhere. Fuck him.

>> No.2870064

>>2869999
don't care about the plot but
his style is boring/terribru
/word

>> No.2870065

Murkamommy fans can't really point to anything of merit in his texts beyond "I like it."

They're mental midgets.

>> No.2870069

Style?

I read 1Q84, I figure a third of every chapter was mundane detail, mostly about clothing, the first paragraph or so generally was a bludgeon of fore shadowing leaving the only mystery about what is to come in the chapter, being the clothing. He could not even leave some details for my imagination, ok he left a few, while he said the second moon was potatoe shaped, he did not say what kind of potatoe, I went with a purple fingerling even though he was clear that it was not purple.

Why not just tell me that the new moon was completely different but not unlike the old moon and situated somewhere between here and there but decidedly closer to there. Give the reader some credit, let their imagination fill in the details make the challenge be something other then wading through 800 page of minutiae for the 200 pages of story.

I really wish I was at a computer with a keyboard right now instead of typing with my thumbs on a phone, I so want to rant about this following his chapter formula for 18q4

I really would feel better about reading that 1000 page Eddie Bauer catalog if tomorrow night I checked this thread and it was full of such rants.

>> No.2870072

>>2870069
Not even Murakami fans give a shit about 1Q84. It's been panned by everyone, including his following.

Nobody cares, dude.

>> No.2870074

hes an objectively great writer in my opinion

>> No.2870075

>>2870074
You're objectively wrong.

>> No.2870086

I am just bitter that I read it.

>> No.2870088

>>2870075
So are you.

>> No.2870089

>hes an objectively great writer in my opinion

Um, there is a very obvious problem with this sentence.

>> No.2870090
File: 17 KB, 306x392, 1341916855915.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2870090

>>2870074
>objectively great
>in my opinion

>> No.2870094

>>2870075
>>2870089
>>2870090

so many, i had not thought troll had undone so many...

>> No.2870096

>>2870094
Trolling is acting stupid to irritate people. What that poster did was act stupid to make a joke.

>> No.2870099

>>2870096
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."
While the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels subjective, with trolling describing intentionally provocative actions and harassment outside of an online context. For example, mass media has used troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[5][6]

It doesn't need to be "acting stupid". It's just any action designed to produce incendiary response.

>> No.2870101

>>2870099
For all practical purposes, what is the difference between "extraneous" and "acting stupid" here?

>> No.2870103

>>2870099
Yeah, the first part was only the way it was because it sounded good with the sounded good with the second part.

>> No.2870104

>>2870101
Do you not know what extraneous means?

>> No.2870107

>>2870104
Do you not understand "For all practical purposes"?

>> No.2870111

>>2870062
>he's just so horribly lacking in imagination
Are we reading the same Murakami?

>>2870069
Everyone hates 1Q84. Try again.

>> No.2870145

bampkins

>> No.2870150

>>2870111

>The novel quickly became a sensation, with its first printing selling out the day it was released, and reaching sales of one million within a month.[2][3]

>Reviews of the novel have been mostly positive, praising both its quality and its place in the world of literature at large (...) it was said that the novel "may become a mandatory read for anyone trying to get to grips with contemporary Japanese culture", calling 1Q84 Haruki Murakami's "magnum opus".[13]


uh

>> No.2870182

>>2870150
Critics and press...
Try to find what they say about 50 Shades of Grey. 'It sold 38 million, being the fastest sold paperback ever.' and I bet there are tons of 'critics' who would call it an amazing erotic novel.

>> No.2870192

I'm sad that you're trolling because I do actually think Murakami is a good writer. A very interesting brand of magical realism. More Carroll and Marquez.

>> No.2870194

>>2870192

than*

Not and.

>> No.2870205

>>2870192
OP here. This aimed at me?
>not trolling
>are you trolling.exe

>> No.2870208

>>2870205

Nah sorry, it's pretty obvious that you're trolling. The whole green text nonsense isn't helping you either.

Here on /lit/, we can say things without 4chan gimmicks. Just for future reference.

>> No.2870212

>>2870208
>implying we don't have our own bullshit meta-language

>> No.2870222
File: 209 KB, 941x960, 12_01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2870222

>>2870111
>Are we reading the same Murakami?
Yes, we are. I explained what I meant: Murakami pulls the Kafkaesque, but can't be assed to followed through; he just conjures up new bullshit as he goes along. It takes no special amount of imagination to slap together a noun and an adjective, and write about it, and then act as though you're actually doing something clever. There's also the way he cycles through the same elements, which might be less jarring were he to actually make a fresh point in each of his books.

>> No.2870231
File: 7 KB, 251x189, 1343689859361.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2870231

>>2870222
Murakami is so good, he doesn't need talent.

>> No.2870282

Well I am not a fan of Murakami but I don't think he is that terrible. It is common to judge those who achieve success harsher than we judge those who don't (among the ones we find undeserving). There is some little things I'm liking in 1Q84 among those little things is the casual way he relates Aomame's realization about being in a different world, her conversation about butterflies and names with the old lady, and her decission to give a name to the new world (because even dogs and cats need names). In that last reasoning she either fails to realize that 1Q84 is likely more like a butterfly -for wich a name is largely impractical- or she avoids to think about it and decides to put a name to it precisely because that makes it feel less menacing

>> No.2870289

>>2870192
>>2870208
o summer
pls go

>> No.2870308

>>2870062
>>2870222

Does this mean he gets no points for being an excellent writer (the actual writing bit, not the world-building or whatever it is you find fault with)?

>>2870289
Thanks for defending my honour, summer.

>> No.2870316

>>2869999

Back on topic, sauce? Moar of him?

>> No.2870326

>>2870316
lol Muracummy fans are homosexual idiots.

>> No.2870328

I think he is a very good writer.
Simple to read and with profound meanings.
I loved his books.

>> No.2870329

>>2870328
are you gay?

>> No.2870334

>>2870289

The guy calling out an obvious troll and trying to get people to stop /v/ style green text shitposting is the summerfag.

Alright then.

>> No.2870351

>>2870326

Not a fan of the author, just a fan of the guy in the pic

>> No.2870363
File: 168 KB, 500x280, jim.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2870363

>>2869999
well, last I heard, relying entirely on style without any real substance was pretty uncontroversially a bad thing... so you've kinda answered you own question there.

>> No.2870366

I'm so happy to see this topic because I've been wanting to make a Murakami thread recently. I've been re-reading a lot of stuff lately now that I'm living Japan and less than an hour away from Tokyo.

Preface: I used to hold /lit/'s general opinion of Murakami before I came to Japan. Granted, it hasn't changed much but I've realized a few things....

1.) His books are twice as pertinent if you're living within the daily grind of Japanese life. And four times as much if you life in a big city like Tokyo. It's hard to describe but I always saw "After Dark" as one of his main throwaways but after reading it in Tokyo everything just kinda "clicked" now it's one of my favorites.

2.) That said, I think he does go a little heavy on the "random bullshit" at times. I literally threw "Kafka on the Shore" against the wall because it started out as such a good story then spiraled deeper and deeper into meaninglessness.

3.) Murakami became a MUCH better writer after the Kobe Earthquake and stopped focusing so much on being a wanna-be American and being a Japanese writer. "after the quake" and the aforementioned "After Dark" are awesome. "Underground," his non-fiction work about the sarin gas attacks, is by far his best work. Again, it's even better if you've lived in Tokyo for a while.

>> No.2870379

>>2870316
There is more of him, but not naked. He's a friend of mine.

>>2870363
The point is, people around here talk about him like he's a pox upon the earth. There's an incredible amount they could learn from him, so they should STFU.

>>2870366
>"Underground," his non-fiction work about the sarin gas attacks, is by far his best work.
Oh, so it's actually good? I didn't know whether to buy it. Alright, I'm sold on it.

>> No.2870401

>>2870366
>loved After Dark
>hated KotS
lol WAT
hurrr I live in Japan so the stories have such different meaningzzz
And how did KotS "spiral into meaninglessness"? Just because you couldn't follow what was going on?

Guess you better stay away from Kobo Abe then.

>> No.2870403

>>2870401
Please don't compare Murakami to Abe.

>> No.2870411

>>2870366

>"Underground," his non-fiction work about the sarin gas attacks, is by far his best work. Again, it's even better if you've lived in Tokyo for a while.

Finally someone else who has this opinion. Underground is so good. If anyone ever doubted there were artistry in editing, point them to Underground.

>> No.2870420

>>2870379

Well, it's my favorite because I have a great interest in the subject. Also, he is dealing with other people's lives so he treats his subject material with great respect and leaves out a great deal of wankery. As a result, it is more concise and cutting than many of his other works.

>>2870401

u mad bro?

That said, I read After Dark like last week while in Akihabara. I read Kafka on the Shore a long time ago. I'd be willing to give it another try. I remember the last 30 pages or so being the ones I didn't like. Also, I've read some of Kobo Abe's short stories and I thought they were pretty cool. :)

>> No.2870458

>>2870379
post more photos of your friend, kind OP.

>> No.2870475

>>2870379

why did you post a nude photo of your friend on 4chan

>> No.2870479

>>2870475
Because I'm gay and /hm/ is full of the retarded.

>> No.2870480

>>2870458
No. This is enough. I gave you the best of him.

>>2870475
This is on his public facebook. If he didn't want people to see it, he would let everyone see it.

>> No.2870487

>>2870065
>"I like it."

Why isn't this enough?

>> No.2870489

>>2870480
Take a photo of yourself, OP, with your genitals hidden behind your legs. Come on, do it OP.

Do it.
Do it.
Do it.

>> No.2870490

>>2870487
Unintelligent. One must explain why they like it, or it is ignorable, at best.

>> No.2870521
File: 10 KB, 251x259, athena.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2870521

/lit/ reasoning resumes to this: If it's popular, it sucks.

Apparently Murakami is famous as fuck in America so there you have it.

>> No.2870530

>>2870490

Oh wow, /lit/. You can NOT be this hipster.

>If you like something, you must explain why you like it. Otherwise it's stupid.

Let's all look for a meaningful answer to why we like to masturbate. Wait, let me...I'll write an essay just for you, man.

Is 50 pages fine with you?

>> No.2870531

>>2870521
>the most basic strawman of them all

>> No.2870536

>>2870530
It's pretty easy to explain that. Masturbation releases endorphins, which make one feel good, which reduces stress, which is healthy for the body.
Ergo, masturbation (in moderation) is good.

>> No.2870538

>>2870531

>greentext
>sage

Haha oh wow man, you won. You so edgy.

Face it. /lit/ is plagued by hipsters as well as most of 4chan boards. If it's famous or too mainstream, they'll discard it right away.

>> No.2870543

>>2870538
Which must lead one to ask: why does /lit/ still laud Cormac McCarthy.

>> No.2870551

>>2870490

Explain it to who, why and to what extent?

Is this the /lit/ version of /v/'s whole "fun is a buzzword" thing

>> No.2870552

>>2870536

Masturbating in a daily basis makes you act awkward in front of your pears, thus making you shy. Masturbation causes people to lose interest in going out, thus making you both shy and a shut in.

It also makes you "genitilize" sex (and sometimes all-day activities).

There, you like masturbating. I don't. I ain't going as far as saying masturbating sucks. I just don't like it.

Now, if you want a reason to why I like Murakami: His way of writing hooks you up right away. He isn't the greatest writer of all times but his books make you feel interested in what's going to happen next. It slowly becomes a vice that you must satisfied until you're done (and even after you're done). The emotions you feel from books like Norwegian Wood or Sputnik are actually real; he's achieved something that a few writers have achieved in me: making me feel depressed as fuck.

>> No.2870553

>>2870543

He clearly isn't that mainstream, son.

>> No.2870561

>>2870552
>masturbating is bad
What you're describing is addiction/obsession. That's a whole other topic. You're such a tard.

>> No.2870571

why you talking about onanism when the comment was about liking murakami?

>> No.2870573

is that image sfw?

>> No.2870576

>>2870561

>masturbation is bad
>You're such a tard

Thanks for making my point even though my English sucks big balls.

>> No.2870802

>>2870573
There's no penis, so yeah, it's SFW.

>>2870576
Majorly tarded troll.

Let's get back to discussing /lit/'s idiocy in disliking Murakami.

>> No.2872651

bumpatron

>> No.2872992

>>2870521
this

popular things are ruining the idea of their little secret club

same with Cowboy Bebop on /a/

>> No.2872993

inb4 no one on lit read him untranslated.

>> No.2873003

>>2872993

Original fetishism is a really stupid attitude.

>> No.2873007

>>2872993
>look at me being able to understand japanese
>guys look at me and pay me attention I think I deserve
>look at me guys
>guys
>hey
>guys?
>;_;

>> No.2873010

>>2873003
i agree, you don't need to read the original language to comment on a book. but your comment got me thinking, we could add fetishism to any action or attitude we disapprove of. i mean, valuing the original above translated isn't even fetishistic.

>> No.2873013

>>2873010

Yeah, it is.

>> No.2875019

Murakami and the feminism and homosexuality, subjects that are not popular in Japan but subjects that are more accepted in city places in America and in Europa? Perhaps that's why I read more the form of Murakami than the subject?

>> No.2875069

Because he's a talented writer (see his non-fiction) but he's fucking lazy and incapable of finishing a novel

>> No.2875072

>>2875069
>non-fiction
Forgot to praise his shorts, he's just a shitty novelist

>> No.2875113

I actually like Murakami, mostly for the whole Japanese-y feeling his prose has. Das my culture.

>> No.2875249
File: 182 KB, 1606x1102, murakami.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2875249

>>2869999
When he hits the respective mark, in my opinion:

>tone
A Wild Sheep Chase, The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle, After Dark (albeit in a markedly different way)

>atmosphere
Sputnik Satellite, Norwegian Wood, The Elephant Vanishes

>characterization
Dance, Dance, Dance, after the quake


That said, 1Q84 felt like it was ghostwritten (it doesn't help that there's the ghostwriting of a Japanese bestseller within the plot) and was an all-around jarring read. Murakami certainly has a type when it comes to male protagonists, yes, but Tengo was the worst, most hollow, listless one to date; conversely, Aomame was positively bristling with girl-power.

If you want style, read any of the ones listed here.