/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.2855782]

What are your opinions of teaching?

[Anonymous No.2855787]

Schools should be used as a base and it's up to the kid and parents to improve on that base. I think people putting so much pressure on teachers when they should focus on getting kids to discover new things on their own.

[Anonymous No.2855788]

It used to be done by people who can't "do", but now the funding for a huge variety of things is so slashed and burned that a lot of respected artists have to teach to get any food on the table.

Our world is changing pretty rapidly. It's hard to say anything definitive about the education system, right now.

[Anonymous No.2855792]

>>2855787

[Anonymous No.2855798]

my opinion on teaching was taught to me by a teacher so i don't trust it.

[Anonymous No.2855799]

the last sorry refuge of a coward, broken in will and buggered in anus.

[Anonymous No.2855801]

If it is done for money, it is debased. Socrates was right.

[Anonymous No.2855808]

>>2855788
>Those who can't "do" teach

I despise the idea that this was ever even an opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuBmSbiVXo0&list=FL8t_lQVq5P9yzZpAkIr587Q&index=22&featur
e=plpp_video

[Anonymous No.2855811]

for reasons i'm not really aware of, a lot of kids graduate high school with what would, it seems, not be much more than a 5th/6th grade writing ability. (i discovered this when grading practice SAT essays.) there seems also to be a higher tolerance for shitty handwriting. i can't imagine that legitimate disgraphia is really all that common.

[Anonymous No.2855812]

>>2855792
I hate the grading system in general. Mostly because it's normally based on testing and it's been proven time and time again that testing is the worst kind of tool to use to teach. I honestly don't have an answer on how we should teach kids but I do feel it should be base on a solid foundation and letting them find new ways to build on it.

[Anonymous No.2855827]

>>2855811
Am I the only one who wishes proper writing techniques were taught in school? Cursive is taught in elementary school, but after that no one cares. It's sad that writing used to be so rigorously emphasized, only to be discarded.

[Anonymous No.2855838]

>>2855827
>>2855811

Would you consider these things the teachers' fault? They're not really allowed to deviate too far from the curriculum, from what I understand.

[Anonymous No.2855843]

>>2855782
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o

I went to school for secondary ed, they told me every child could be taught. Having just gotten out of hs, i know that some kids are already idiots, or psychotic. Teaching those that dont want to be taught is useless, it would be better to assign a psychologist to every classroom grades 1-4 and begin tracking people into the trades or university studies.

Instead the US relies on massive testing initiatives which are utter failures. My child will never go to a US public school

[Anonymous No.2855845]

>>2855827

In Canada (my school, at least), grammar and spelling virtually ceased to be taught after Grade 9

[Anonymous No.2855850]

>>2855845
No Child left behind ensures that useless information is presented first, and the classics dead last. And lets not even touch upon modern lit. Furthermore, technology is pushed aside for 30 year old biology and physics, which doesnt even acknowledge quantum mechanics.

Meanwhile 60% of fundage goes to sports or shit drama programs.

[Anonymous No.2855854]

>>2855838
dunno. i would imagine that if a teacher took a rigorous policy of returning automatic 0s on poor handwriting, they'd meet a lot of resistance, perhaps putting their job at peril, if 1) a student's handwriting they rejected is arguably fine, or 2) they reject the handwriting of a student with litigious parents.

i don't think that one, as a teacher, could take a detour in a high-school American lit class to re-teach handwriting, but it would would be nice if they could reassign kids to a handwriting course. in some cases, it might shock them into paying more attention to their handwriting. there are probably many who CAN write neatly, but just don't care enough to do so. if they think that they'll lose their honors standing, or be held back, because of shitting handwriting, then they might start to write more clearly.

there must be a general reluctance, though, to fail kids or hold them back. there are probably reasons for that which go to the heart of institutional problems, which would be difficult to dismantle.

[Anonymous No.2855863]

>>2855850
>>2855850

>Meanwhile 60% of fundage goes to sports or shit drama programs.

Same here (canadafag)

Almost every fucking morning in high school, the announcements opened with what bullshit our sports teams accomplished

They had their own fucking pimped out mini-bus while my grade 11 chemistry textbook had NO covers and was missing about a dozen (admittedly, non-critical, but still) pages. I had a good deal. Some of my classmates' books were literally falling apart

In my grade 12 economics class, we 12 textbooks for 28 kids. I went and fucking stole one from the storeroom for myself because the photocopies/sharing the rest of us had to deal with was a fucking hassle

Meanwhile, we had brand new gym equipment! Fuck yeah!!

[Anonymous No.2855866]

>>2855850
Drama is cut just as savagely as music and literature. Make no mistake, anything that doesn't have the potential to earn bank for students is getting cut.

[Anonymous No.2855868]

I think most people don't deserve more than a basic education. They should get taught reading and writing and basic math then go to vocational school.

This is based on my experience going to an average (as in 60% nigger) public school as a child and teaching in a below average (as in 75% nigger) school now.

I really fucking dislike black people, I'm in the process of changing careers.

[Anonymous No.2855877]

>>2855868
>we should stop educating black people

Eh, I'd like it if you never posted here again.

[Anonymous No.2855879]

>>2855877

Something like 5% of black people are capable of being educated. Then there's a 5% who probably could be educated but are scared of "acting white".

Have you ever taught in an inner city school?

If not, kindly go fuck yourself.

[Anonymous No.2855880]

>>2855877

For example, last year at my school a pregnant teacher was punched in the stomach by a nigger.

If I wasn't 6'2 and 180 lb I would have been in some physical confrontations myself. The students just don't want to learn, their parents are busy drinking and eating fast food, they don't give a shit, I don't give a shit. Education is a privilege not a "right".

[Anonymous No.2855881]

>>2855879

[Anonymous No.2855890]

>>2855868

As a white kid who goes to a predominantly non-white school, I feel sorry for all the idealistic white teachers who thought they were going to be teaching the next generation of white kids and instead got stuck with nigger savages

In fact, I once considered becoming an engineer like my father until I hit grade 9 and decided that this really isn't the kind of society I want to contribute to, at all.

I'm now double-majoring in econ/math, hoping I finish fast enough to suck what's left of this country dry until I flee to singapore to fuck asian bitches all day

No but really, I feel so bad for teachers, and I deeply respect those who have managed to maintain their flair and passion despite the shit-chucking apefest that modern public schools have become.

I thought teachers were useless until I met my Grade 12 physics teacher. I used to just skip class a lot and teach myself using the textbook, but that motherfucker unlocked knowledge so fast and made class so fun I literally stopped skipping so I could come to his classes.

Consider teaching English in Asia

[Anonymous No.2855895]

>>2855868
>>2855879
>>2855880
>>2855890
>>>/pol/
>>>/b/

[Anonymous No.2855892]

>>2855880
Listen, you. This is not a place to spew your biased hate ( get a blog if you want to do that, or go to /b/ ). I know that you've probably had horrible experiences, but it is illogical to think that LESS EDUCATION is the solution to this problem.

[Anonymous No.2855903]

>>2855895
>>2855892

>Anonymous people implying they are spokesmen for an anonymous imageboard

Never change 4chan.

Come back to this thread when you've spent three years trying to teach Tyrone and Shaniqua to appreciate great literature.

If there's anyone ITT who should be banned it's OP for starting a thread that's not /lit/-related. But the question was asked and I answered it honestly. I'm sorry the reality of just how shitty our underclass is frightens you. It frightens me too. Thank god they don't vote.

[Anonymous No.2855910]

>>2855903

The reality of how shitty some of our teachers are is what frightens me.

[Anonymous No.2855921]

>>2855890
not the guy you're responding to, but teaching English in South Korea is what I plan on doing. or Taiwan, or...anywhere, really. It will be amazing wherever I go. Plus I'll get to fuck asian bitches which I have a mssive fetish for.

oh, and I've heard people in places like Korea and Japan are actually really eager to learn and so teaching there probably isn't an awful experience

[Anonymous No.2855927]

>>2855903
Ladies and gentlemen, these are your wonderful american teachers!

[Anonymous No.2855938]

American education is the only system I know.

It needs to be completely revamped and taken off the self-esteem bullshit model. I just finished highschool and got the highest marks in the school for every class and finished with the highest writing scores. The sad thing is that I could of probably put more effort into it. When I got my high marks, I was actually somewhat disappointed unless the scores were immaculate and over-the-top. No other kid was like that, but I feel like that's the mentality in countries where their cultures aren't shit.

I like Nordic model schooling (namely Finland). Grammar, spelling, and handwriting wasn't stressed at all in my school. This is because if the county wasn't satisfied with a schools performance they could simply lower the grading regimen to subsequently raise the averages; ergo they get more funding. I think focusing on poverty is a better way to start to fix the schooling problem here. Eradicating poverty fixes societies in so many ways.

Instead of being about education it's about money. Our military budget is a huge pit of waste. Most all gifted kids are pulled out of normal kid classes and put into special classes. Then when they're older they get offered comfortable jobs making bombs or working on rail guns.

But maybe I'm an iconoclastic bleeding-heart socialist faggot.

[Anonymous No.2855951]

>>2855880
I think the concept of "right" should be redefined. It use to mean that everyone had a "right to participate" in it, regardless of discrimination, but in education it to taken to mean it is "necessary to participate". And because it is necessary for everyone, they have to place it in a rigid structure to conform to everyone (i.e., the lowest common denominator, morally and academically) to the cost of those who want to take an active part. It can't appeal to those few, it has to appeal to everyone. To go further into Youth Rights, that's precisely the same argument they use to subject freedom of speech in schools - that because an education is a right, anything that might ambiguously "disrupting education" is violating the student's rights. It's an absurdity. It's a privilege in the sense that rights are privileges, in a practical sense. Everyone is entitled to them, but they're generally only used by those few who care to use them - as it should be in a free and just society.

[Standard Toaster !TOASTxk3L. No.2855952]

I'm in school now to become a teacher.
I've always had respect for teachers for their choice to have a job that doesn't pay too well and usually gets shit respect from kids, in order to teach the next generation.

[Anonymous No.2855960]

>>2855868
i teach at a CC in a racially diverse area. i am just part-time and a fairly recent hire, and my classes have been majority white—for which i'm abundantly grateful. blacks are a lot likelier to be a huge pain in the ass. some of them are well enough assimilated into white culture to understand how to act in a civilized manner, like those coming out of a majority-white high school. but roughly one-third of them are insufferable cunts who are there on federal funding and are completely unable to take responsibility. having not done a single homework, they'll claim that they failed a test due to the distraction posed by writing the time remaining on the board every 15 minutes.

thankfully, i'd imagine i'm in a much nicer situation than you: i have a fair amount of leeway to kick them out if i need to. also, i have cut a few of them due to simple administrative reasons: they were failing and not coming to class, which can earn them an instaban, regardless of anything else. i really shouldn't have derived amusement from it, but i couldn't help enjoying their stunned reactions at finally encountering someone who decided to no longer tolerate their bullshit.

polite-sage because off-topic, but thanks for letting me get that off my chest.

[Anonymous No.2855968]

>>2855903
"Tyrone" and "Shaniqua's" inability to appreciate literature is a demonstration of a failed education system at a young age. It's a slippery slope if you leave a child to grow up ignorant - making it near impossible to instill an appreciation for academics the further they divulge in this uneducated lifestyle. You are the reason these kids are failing, because you have the opportunity to remove them from their destructive environments.

[Anonymous No.2855971]

>>2855968
i.e teaching them that being a crack whore is not a viable career path.

[Anonymous No.2855972]

>>2855968

While I disagree with who you're responding to, I'd have to say it's also a cultural ordeal.

[Anonymous No.2855975]

>>2855972
Yes, that's what I was referring to when I said "remove them from their destructive environments."

[Anonymous No.2855979]

>>2855975
Pretty much this. You have to get kids to value this stuff while they're still very young and impressionable. Also why I think there should be an exam and a shitload of paperwork in order to have kids.

[Anonymous No.2855986]

>>2855979
Yeah, but then you get a bunch of people arguing about their right to have kids, and it will turn into an even bigger civil rights stand off than life VS choice.
It's a shame, really. Would solve a lot of the worlds problems.

[Anonymous No.2855994]

>>2855986
Nothing in this world worth having comes without a fight.

[Anonymous No.2855995]

>>2855938
Love your post. Well said. Can you post a little more about what you especially like about the Finnish approach?

[Anonymous No.2855997]

Let's not completely pretend culture is the only prominent problem with kids. The plain, goody-goody snooze-fest we call literature that we make them read doesn't exactly entice someone to continue to explore literature, especially when there's an Xbox to be with.

[Anonymous No.2856005]

>>2855997
but...a desire to play xbox instead of read is representative of the present culture, despite you saying culture isn't the only problem with kids.

[Anonymous No.2856010]

>>2855995

I could spend my time elaborating but it's easy to Google and I want to get in the shower, lol.

But pay attention to the statistics and read about it.

Here's a video that's in my history http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlOfZL_J5fo

[Anonymous No.2856018]

>>2855938
at first i was like
>a college freshman who's opinionated about stuff; how original
but then after reading your post, i was like
>hey this guy seems alright & not at all a twat!

[Anonymous No.2856020]

>>2855997

Some of the required reading I remember doing most; Poe, Hemingway, Thoreau, White, Huxley, Clarke, Shakespeare, among others. Nothing "goody-goody" there. I guess times have <really> changed. btw- pic related; I read it in 7th grade.

[Anonymous No.2856021]

>>2855879
My mother teaches in an inner city school. She agrees that many black children are so damaged that they cant be taught. She basically spends her days putting out fires like sexual abuse, domestic violence, and making the black boys stop touching white girls.. Of course she says this in a very liberal manner.

Of course, I know 2 blacks who are amazing successes, one is a manager for a military contractor, the other a phd for a major chemical supply agency. Both were ostracized for being oreos, and are very much homosexual. A sad story.

[Anonymous No.2856026]

I think it's impossible to make an effort to teach things. I think "teaching" is a word that only works for the student, that is, the student will nominate his teachers, not the contrary. "I learned this here, and this from that guy".

We are put into this world and we want to know some things. Because of that, we go to people that might know, we read books, we try to find our way around it ourselves so we can understand it. It might be scientific, or a skill or a cosmological view, it doesn't matter.

We are already fucked up in every possible way. So the kids have to go to school and they have to "learn" a lot of things that they don't want to learn, often putting aside the things they do want to learn in name of something that they "need to learn"(that is, to fit society). It's only when we are adults and working that we may choose if we want to graduate on another thing or if we want to learn how to paint as a "hobby". It's all upside down!

Instead, we get a debate on "what children should and shouldn't learn", which for me is an useless debate. You may discuss with your wife what you'd like your child to learn, but the moment you put it in a school scale, or even more, to a tv scale, it turns into propaganda. Conservatives don't want gays talking to their children, atheists don't want religious people talking to their childrens, everyone knows what they want and don't want. But the kids are on youtube listening to us all.

Ridiculous! You can't teach a man!

[Anonymous No.2856028]

>>2856021

>>>>>>>>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.2856037]

>>2856021
Remind me again why it isn't illegal to have kids you can't care for and lead to sucess?

[Anonymous No.2856039]

>>2856018

Thanks

[Anonymous No.2856042]

>>2856028
That doesnt even make sense. I didnt use slurs. This is the truth, gods honest. If you really believe that the black, hispanic, and poor white underclass are teachable when a teacher gets them at 6, you are severely wrong, and blinded by liberal bias. I dont believe there is a racial factor, its the fact that when you come out of a crack house, were ignored for your whole childhood, never read to, never shown success, you will fail. And it will happen time and time again.

I know another successful black kid (not gay). He told us that he was taken out of his home for some nameless ghetto violence when he was 15 months and given to a white family that treasured education. Well spoken cook at a top resturaunt and teacher of home economics part time. Its that simple. Remove the poisonous culture of apathy and ignorance, which is VERY present in black culture, and you will find that the pol people have fewer arguments.

>>2856037
Well said.

[Anonymous No.2856056]

>>2856021
>2 successful blacks
>both ostracized [by the black community]

i think there's a tendency among them (blacks) to shun anyone who's not a consummate welfare whore.

[Anonymous No.2856081]

>>2856056
There's this old proverb/story about crabs in barrel. I'll pull it up.

[Anonymous No.2856093]

>>2856056
Eh, as a black guy who's lived in both the ghetto and middle class black areas that kinda depends on where you are. Black africans and the black american middle class, not very likely. In places like Detroit and Compton yes. Polite sage for off topic.

[Anonymous No.2856101]

>>2856093

It has more to do with poverty and less with race. Poverty seems to inherently produce a destructive culture.

I guess that's kind of obvious, though.

[Anonymous No.2856103]

>>2856010
TY to anon for the utoobz link. Very helpful.

[Anonymous No.2856114]

Only those with a true passion in the subject AND teaching should teach. I've had a crap ton of teachers who knew their subject but just hated teaching, vice versa. A good teacher can either propel the interest of the student towards or away from the subject.

[Anonymous No.2856116]

>>2856114
Shut up.

[Anonymous No.2856143]

>>2855792
Not entirely accurate. You should know the schooling system in today's world is vastly different than one in the 69's. We're alot more laxed, theres hard any motivation factor, theres no competitive factors, theres no right or wrong. Our political correctness fucked our schooling system by instituting "no child left behind" policy of lowering standards, colleges in CA are trying to remove SAT scores because there arent enough minority in their universities (asians aside). Its quite sad. Blame lies in public side, not teacher or the students. The American public has gotten too dumb to make the right decisions. The schools should once again be regulated tougher and promote literacy and competitiveness.

[Anonymous No.2856216]

>>2856143
I moved to a CA high school last year. You're right that students here are less motivated, but where I used to live (a Massachusetts suburb), it was ridiculously competitive. It didn't mean we learned more, it just meant we cared enough to get higher test scores; we were competitive but didn't give a shit about learning.

[Anonymous No.2856228]

>>2856216
And here is why grades have become a convoluted concept that motivates students in the wrong way. I feel you.

[Anonymous No.2856277]

>>2856228

So what you're basically saying is grades n tests n shit...das racis and is keepin tyrone down?

MUH INEQUALITY MUH REPARATIONS BRO

[Anonymous No.2856359]

>>2856277
Wow, you are unbelievably stupid. Your lack of reading comprehension is unprecedented. You have made everyone who read that post a little dumber. God have mercy on your soul.

[Anonymous No.2856535]

Please note that everything I wrote was not given careful consideration or anything like that, and the only reason the grammar and spelling is close to, or is, flawless is that I extended everyone the common courtesy of a cursory proofer.

If my ideal were realized, we would have anarchistic free schools, e.g. Sudbury Valley School, stocked with philosophers, visual/auditory/kinesthetic artists, and scientists of every flavor, and debates and projects and experiments de rigueur. But, nobody would vote for it because of '[the child's] innate proclivity for the sedentary', '[the child's] inherent need for structure', and other bullshit irrational justifications akin, and, on the more rational hand, budgetary constraints (that shouldn't exist) and the program's reliance on proper home environment. So as pragmatic alternative I propose something simpler, something obvious, something anybody with their head screwed on right can agree with: a critical-thinking-/creativity-oriented curriculum.

[Anonymous No.2856537]

Things like, though not necessarily such is, research ,-- the ability to find research, determine research's validity, and draw conclusions, dialectic -- the ability to consider competing views, determine their efficacy toward a common, yet muddled, ideal, and achieve synthesis, programming -- a part of the ability to think within rigid, demanding, exacting, and supremely logical parameters and the midway point betwixt the nexuses of logic and unadulterated creativity, writing and visual/auditory arts -- a part of the wider aspirations of getting students to 'know thyself' and to express, philosophy -- you know, ice cream moral reasoning and sprinkle intros for the premiere provocateurs, and hermeneutics's whole -- it lends perspective templates to/for anything and is so rich in its applications it accomplishes, with little self-control/discipline and abundant curiosity, much appertaining to keeping one's mind in a state of perpetual thought. Of course, sheer quantitatives of knowledge is great, shit's useful, I guess, but the education system is a teleological monstrosity spawned from beyond, or is it below?, the eighth circle of Hell. The point, the telos, of education is to take the child-tabula-rasa and inscribe the prime directives of logic, humanity, and expression into the tabula with permanent force, and knowledge-based education aint cutting it, and never will, never. Just look at the U.S. of A's educational standing. For all intensive purposes, skills and their surrounding knowledge should be taught and all information qua information ought be scrapped, burned, and abandoned until the prior and following criterions are sated surfeit, and these skills ought be skills of school-/id-transcendence which is to say apt in use post-secondary plus and of a cerebral nature.

[Anonymous No.2856544]

Anyway, the clause 'though not necessarily such is' provided is misnomic as I do advocate these specific things, among others, but I render it in precaution. I acknowledge the latter five-set of suggestions as contentious, liberal-artsy, etc., for emphasizing, but their affects and effects are indubitable, but their execution is delicately danced and dubitable sans crippling errors originating client-side, lack thereof, intelligence or curiosity or suitable home environment or yada yada yada, or server-side, piss-poor non-au-fait teachers or agnate other, and to which side attributed a guesstimation, on my part, would be wholly arbitrary, unbased. For an example of this 'delicate[ly] dance', programming teaches critical thinking, detail-orientation, close analysis, systematic thinking, and technological competency, and administered in an educatory environment expands, or can, to encompass group skills; but, how do you present it, are the children smart enough, are the teachers able to learn and/or teach it, etc.. Besides, I think these client-side and server-side potentials for runtime errors are fixable or not-actually-there and implementation is real easy; for teachers, finding individuals with expertise in programming, art, and philosophy are abundant, and performance examines can be expanded and increased in frequency to identify unengaging bores of teachers; for students, all my suggestions appeal to competition, [uncensored] creativity, and enjoy-ability -- yes, inception of philosophy can stimulate youngsters's cogitation, if you pose it subtle and a way generating intergroup controversy;

[Anonymous No.2856546]

programming class would replace science classes primary upward -- these concepts, especially the ideologically-oriented ones such as genetics and evolution, are breezes to integrate into planned philosophical debates and general discussion, philosophy would replace social studies -- once again, guided conversements achieve this, and in expunging the uselessness of job-market dexterities and superfluous history, e.g. foreign languages -- as cultural demo it is, but my proposition entails kaffeeklatschian savantry or, phrased differently, genuine respect for other cultures and new developments tempered by healthy cynicism and discare that filters the newest political bullshit and interesting, yet rarified, knowledge and this can be accomplished by more efficient and efficacious modalities -- and history above general world and national history, integrating knowledge fields, e.g. mathematics and programming and, a possibility, art, and thereby skill-orientation thus quantitative knowledge reduction streamlining the learning process, e.g. forsaking grammar and integrating into composition, the crest of unoccupied time would allow, with ease, the addition of philosophy and higher concentration on fine arts.

[Anonymous No.2856548]

Assuming confluence of everything achieved my theoretical, there would be three classes: art, philosophy, and programming; if it is not clear to what contemporary fields they correspond to: English, and, duh, Art; Social Studies and Science; Mathematics.,

TL;DR - Too lazy to make a TL;DR. Oh well.

[Derrida No.2856574]

>>2856548
Most kids are too dumb, that would be a monumental waste of scarce human resources.
>> budgetary constraints (that shouldn't exist)
You're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.2856582]

good question

[Anonymous No.2856600]

Programming is a flourishing field, and many philosophers and artists that are unemployed could be utilized. How is it a ' ... monumental waste of scarce human resources.' If anything, this is a consolidation. Also, what I meant by 'budgetary constraints (that shouldn't exist)' is that education should be sans the question of money altogether -- as much money as we can spare, I'd argue at least, ought be spent on education -- not that we should be firing teachers or something like that.
I'm up for debating, and please don't think me a pompous prick for my writing style, I am just aspiring to be a maximalist writer and, well, writing like this all-improv is practice.

[Anonymous No.2856608]

>>2856600
Moderation is important:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/05/please-dont-learn-to-code.html

[Anonymous No.2856649]

Ah, I see the discrepancy here. I do not advocate programming as a workforce ordeal, rather I advocate it as a vehicle for teaching mathematics, increasing emphasis on critical thinking -- alongside the philosophy of course, and, I haven't really thought this one out, as a springboard into critical thinking. The way I want programming to be taught -- speaking with 'Please don't advocate learning to code just for the sake of learning how to code.' -- is in the form of game creation, 3d simulators, physic engine creation -- higher level mathematics I suppose, etc., so that learning these higher-order thinking skills is a fun learning experience. If you could provide a substitute that is as engaging, at least I'd say it is, if not more, than object-oriented and, at first, damn-worthy streamlined programming of games (meaning fast and rewarding, rewarding as in the overhead makes everything 'amazing') done in a group environment (or not depending on the individual) thus much faster, then I will concede to your position.

[Anonymous No.2856657]

Educatin kids is like this garden bed I am making out the back'a me house:

It could be full of weeds or full of vegetables and herbs. Depends on the gardner a little, but it also depends on the soil, the weather and the type of seeds that are sewn.

[Anonymous No.2856658]

>>2856649
Teaching through programming is either too contingent or too low level. Either you're effectively setting design problems with an object of "doing some programming" (there are far better ways of teaching design that don't necessitate sitting in front of a computer) or you're teaching "algorithmically", where it's rote learning of method (so no developing critical skills, and it's really dry).

[Anonymous No.2856660]

Also, talking outside of the public educational context, what would your thoughts be on the implementation of this sort of system in a private school aimed at 115IQ+ children (note 115IQ+ is just a standard less vague than 'smart' children and does not mean I give much bearing on such grounds)? Would you suppose it would be lavished with success or, excuse the obvious cliché, doomed to failure?

[Anonymous No.2856682]

What are these 'far better ways of teaching design' you speak of? In all honesty they elude my biased brain right now, so you will have to humor me ... sorry. I know I make the assumption programming will engage people, but I must go further. The programming program I advocate is a gradual one, easing them into introductory and immediate-gratification programming solidfying their interest and, I hope, love for the craft, after which beginning to drop them into deeper and deeper water, once again please excuse my bromidic metaphors as my brain is just full of bleh, going from object-based programming to procedure-based to x-based programming allowing more control, but more requisite critical thinking skills. Start in middle school, learn a language, waft into high school, learn another, or two depending on the student's devotion and obsession. Now, we mustn't digress to far from the original topic. How is it a waste of human resources, and for what am I insinuated an idiot?

[Anonymous No.2856718]

>>2856682
It's nice to get kids outside in the world. They could make a boat, or a little bridge or a piece of editorial writing, there's no need to have every design thing programming. It's also better for thinking skills, as they can relate qualitively different experiences together abstractly, which is important in design.

[Anonymous No.2856731]

Please bear in mind the context of the conversation. I never said programming should be the sole facet of creation within this education system or something of equal effect, I programming and the fine arts, and fine arts environs things like literary and musical and kinesthetic composition compounded upon what other categories/fields one might discover to preside underneath this banner. Though by the preceding counter almost everything is inoperative, I say 'almost everything' for a reason: you have conveyed a salient point: I have disregarded kinesthetic learning in fields diverging from kinesthetic art. This does expose a adaptative weakness in my system, and I thank you for granting me some genuine insight.

[teacherfag No.2856749]

>>2856056

>i think there's a tendency among them (blacks) to shun anyone who's not a consummate welfare whore.

I knew one intelligent black ghetto person in my life and he was basically rejected by his family for wearing glasses and reading. He grew up on goodyear ave. in Buffalo.

I think the eurofags/liberalfags just do not understand just how bad inner city ghettoes are.

Come to Cleveland sometime I'll give you a tour. We can shoot some cheap dope, all you have to do is ask the man on the corner.

[Anonymous No.2856793]

>>2855808
I never thought teaching was considered a not respected profession, until I was familiarized with the American mainstream culture.

But I'm probably biased as well, since I believe education (in the "holistic" sense) is probably the only thing that can elevate/save humanity.
Perhaps not everyone "needs" to get a lot of education, but a significant chunk of the population will benefit from it.

[Anonymous No.2856809]

>>2856793
I think it is a good thing for people to both feel/be cultured and feel they deserve to be cultured. With regards to some people not being suited to education, I do feel that people who purport they are educated and believe it is something inherent are actually not wise or knowledgeable at all, and that everyone has within them the ability to reason and so the potential to become "educated" in a worthwhile sense

[Anonymous No.2856822]

>>2855782
Teaching by example is god-mode teaching. This goes for practical matters, as most know, but also for philosophy.

One should be able to distinguish a philosopher from a common man by observing his actions. He should clearly live a better and wiser life. If this is not the case, it isn't worth having him as a teacher.

[Keys !KeYODicKSY No.2856854]

>>2856793
Everyone and anyone with acceptable cognitive abilities will benefit from teaching. We just have a problem with people accepting those teachings, and relating to those who are being taught.

[Anonymous No.2856872]

>>2855782
1. Be a Minority
2. Plagiarize Stephen King

[Anonymous No.2857172]

>>2856657
Why does nobody listen to this sage. A garden's success is a mixture of good gardening, good soil, weather conditions etc. and you could only watch the whole situation. Surely a teacher must be dedicated and competent, but they alone can't change society, nigger "culture" and the like. And people think education is stupid no worse, they think education is for the foolish who don't make money the easier and more effective way, so it's treated basically like a desease in some (worse) places of the West.

[Anonymous No.2857405]

It really disturbs me that two actual teachers have posted ITT about how difficult it is to educate inner city blacks and everybody got mad at them.

I went to public school myself. I was in Honors classes so I hardly ever saw black people in class, but I had to ride with them on the bus and eat lunch with them.

They were atrocious human beings. I remember one of them would throw rocks at my sister every day (I was only 10, I tried to fight him and got the shit kicked out of me because he weighed like 250 pounds). I remember one time a nigger threw a glass bottle into the air during lunch (which was semi-outside) and hit a white kid on the head with it. I remember being taunted with "look a' da' whah boi" all the time.

These people do not want to be educated and there's not much a teacher can do with a person who DOES NOT WANT to be educated. If you grow up in a house where your parents never ever read, and you're genetically inferior to boot, what do you expect will happen?

I have a couple of black friends. But only a couple. I feel like a lot of the anger in this thread is coming from eurofags who have yet to experience majority-minority cities and schools. Your time will come. Plus you guys have a lot of Muslims and IME Muslims are much more civilized than the blacks.

[sage No.2857435]

>>2857405

You hate black people we get it now stop bumping this thread.

[Anonymous No.2857436]

>>2857435

Nice sage you fucking newfag. Go back to reddit.

[Anonymous No.2857785]

>>2857405
>you're genetically inferior to boot

This shit is the problem. You want to argue about the difficulties of teaching lower class scum in general, sure, I'm on board. But then you bust out this horseshit.

[Anonymous No.2858021]

>>2855968
you are taking away from the kids when you say it is anyone's fault but their own that they have failed. they aren't dogs, they decide a lot of things for themselves

[Anonymous No.2858047]

>>2857405

>a person who DOES NOT WANT to be educated

you mean, educated by people he doesn't like or respect, to learn things irrelevant or of no interest, with no actual demonstration of the value of those lessons?
I know what you're saying, I live in a city full of these issues, but you are making a mistake when you say "does not want to be educated".
It's a combination of poor parenting and a lousy educational system working together to make tomorrows problems.

[Anonymous No.2858061]

>>2857405
>They were atrocious human beings. I remember one of them would throw rocks at my sister every day (I was only 10, I tried to fight him and got the shit kicked out of me because he weighed like 250 pounds). I remember one time a nigger threw a glass bottle into the air during lunch (which was semi-outside) and hit a white kid on the head with it. I remember being taunted with "look a' da' whah boi" all the time.

I'm pretty sure white people and yellow people do this too.

[None !mCigtDZ8Ck No.2858068]

Ask me anything

[Anonymous No.2858073]

>>2858021

That implies that good, bad or indifferent, a teacher has no impact on the education of his/her pupils.

Surely the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[Anonymous No.2858132]

>>2858061

The neighborhood I grew up in was working class white. The niggers were across the street. White trash are nothing next to true niggers. I used to sell pot and bought from lots of white trash dealers. They were always reasonably reliable, we would smoke a blunt, whatever.

Not so with the blacks.

[Anonymous No.2858161]

>>2858068

What's it like to teach a "Tyrone" or "Shaniqua"?

[Anonymous No.2858218]

>>2857405
It really disturbs me that you've pretended to be two actual teachers ITT and are even now pissed that no one bought the line about how difficult it is to educate inner city blacks.

[Anonymous No.2858399]

>>2858047
This anon has it right.

[Anonymous No.2858409]

>>2858021
>>2858073

I'm a teacher, off and on, and when I was doing my MA, we were taught under the rubric that a student learns DESPITE their teacher, not BECAUSE of them. Unfortunately, I'm drunk off my ass right now, and I can't remember who originally posited this theory.

Students learn best when they're motivated to teach each other and themselves, the best teachers are the ones who do very little.

[Anonymous No.2858424]

>>2855827
>>2855811

Y'all should read this, if you haven't already. Honestly, I think writing is as bad as it is because grammar lessons have literally been tossed from the curriculum so as not to put off students. I'm a rare person of my age because I went to a Catholic school with English classes that felt like an Iranian theocracy and taught grammar like it was the Koran.

It is hilarious to watch these trogs slog through a good ten minutes just to sign their names in cursive on the SAT though.

[Anonymous No.2858465]

>>2857436
>calling someone a newfag
>on /lit/

On the other hand, they were being a newfag, so carry on?

[Anonymous No.2858473]

The problem is that individual people learn best in different ways and situations. But, for efficiency and practicality's sake, the school system is uniform. My best bro can't learn a damn thing without somebody sitting down and explaining it to him. Lots of people NEED their teachers. I on the other hand tried to minimise my "forced" use of teachers in the education system as much as possible - as far as I was concerned, the teacher just represented a middle man that just recited the syllabus at me, and I preferred to just learn directly from reading all the content myself because I work at erratic tempos and study subjects in chunks.

[Anonymous No.2858488]

Teaching sounds very interesting to me. I really like explaining things to other people or give them something to think about. We all know this people we know and just explaining literature or something else to them and see that person, who never thought this was even interesting, enjoying it and coming back to you to explain something they don't really understand is amazing.

To get back on the topic of 'black people'. I am a eurofag, so I have no idea how bad the matter really is. But I think it is not solely their fault. I mean there are a lot of teachers who just don't give a fuck about their students or at least part of them or calls them stupid etc. for not getting something. Now think what happens if you live in a damn shitty home, have parents that maybe are drunk all day, did never touch a book or anything. What do you except will happen to these people?
I think these kids need a teacher they respect and someone they can look up too, but on the other hand, someone who doesn't take shit from them. We had different teachers in our school and while we didn't have black people, we had a lot of stupid retards who would only do shit in class. Our biology teacher, a woman, who couldn't do anything against them, got made fun of so much and the kids even hide her shit and all that. Then I think about our history teacher. He was a big man and when I say big, he was fucking huge. If you did do anything, he would fucking scream at you and tell you to get the fuck out if you don't want to be here. On the other hand, we had the best discussions with this guy about different kinds of stuff and sometimes even talk to him during the breaks. He was probably one of the best teachers I ever had. And his classes were quiet and everyone took part in them.

[Anonymous No.2858508]

>>2858409

I think that's very silly. It undermines the whole teaching profession. Obviously the best learning is intrinsically motivated and self- or peer-directed, but the teacher still has a lot of work to do in inspiring that motivation, creating an environment where pupils feel safe/comfortable/free to learn and so on, and providing the best quality resources to facilitate learning.

If that wasn't so then a violent, impatient, ignorant, opinionated pedophile would be just as good a teacher as you or I.

Talking of ignorant and opinionated, what's with all the racism here? Is there some sort of stormfag offensive to conquer /lit/ or what?

[Anonymous No.2858513]

>>2858508
Not that guy, but this self-directed learning is a big fad in education circles right now.

As I understand it (not from the supporters of course), the empirical evidence is decidedly ambiguous.

[Anonymous No.2858602]

>>2858513

I know it is, but I feel like people are misinterpreting it horribly. From 'pupils should be encouraged to find things out for themselves, set their own challenges and become independent learners' people are extrapolating 'teachers have no role to play'. That's dumb. A class of children will not learn optimally if you just leave them alone and give zero input. They will throw things at each other, start fights, get teen pregnant etc.

[Anonymous No.2858697]

>>2856359

>Billy Madison

[Anonymous No.2858704]

Is this nigger a great author or does he just have a great ghost writer?

[Anonymous No.2858768]

bump

[Anonymous No.2858822]

>implying it's possible to teach a nigger

This whole. Fucking. Thread.

[Anonymous No.2858920]

>>2858822
if they can't be taught how are they going to work?

[Anonymous No.2859622]

>>2855808
Woody Allen said it and he's smarter than you.

[Anonymous No.2859667]

>>2859622
He also does this thing called joking.