Latin

[Anonymous No.2851715]

>2012
>Still reading the news in peasant-tier languages

I seriously hope you guys etc. etc.

http://yle.fi/radio1/tiede/nuntii_latini/

When are we going to start language threads? We had talked a couple times about having threads dedicated to learning Latin just as /a/ has them for Japanese. I would like to get back into Latin, but ti would be more fun with some fellow gentlemen from /lit/ to accompany me.

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.2851726]

The board gets so stale and ugly, the /int/ factions, if not the old time /lit/ faction, has mostly gone now.

[ticks !DTNUV4cBL6 No.2851730]

>>>/lang/

[Anonymous No.2853864]

Hey I like this idea, I already know Latin though.

[Anonymous No.2853867]

Maybe we should all pick a Latin text to read? What would you be interested in?

We could do Historia Apollonii Regis Tyri. It's full of delicious raep and the Latin is easy (though non-Classical), here's an idea of what it's like Latin-wise:

In civitate Antiochia rex fuit quidam nomine Antiochus, a quo ipsa civitas nomen accepit Antiochia. Is habuit unam filiam, virginem speciosissimam, in qua nihil rerum natura exerraverat, nisi quod mortalem statuerat. Quae dum ad nubilem pervenisset aetatem et species et formositas cresceret, multi eam in matrimonium petebant et cum magna dotis pollicitatione currebant.

[Anonymous No.2853869]

I think it would be a pretty good idea for the whole board to learn Spanish. A lot people are already doing it (including myself) and not only that but there is quite a bit of Spanish speaking posters.

[Anonymous No.2853870]

>>2853867

Et cum pater deliberaret, cui potissimum filiam suam in matrimonium daret, cogente iniqua cupiditate flamma concupiscentiae incidit in amorem filiae suae et coepit eam aliter diligere quam patrem oportebat. Qui cum luctatur cum furore, pugnat cum dolore, vicitur amore; excidit illi pietas, oblitus est se esse patrem et induit coniugem. Sed cum sui pectoris vulnus ferre non posset, quadam die prima luce vigilans inrumpit cubiculum filiae suae, famulos longe excedere iussit, quasi cum filia secretum conloquium habiturus, et stimulante furore libidinis diu repugnanti filiae suae nodum virginitatis eripuit, perfectoque scelere evasit cubiculum. Puella vero stans dum miratur scelesti patris impietatem, fluentem sanguinem coepit celare: sed guttae sanguinis in pavimento ceciderunt.

[Anonymous No.2853871]

>>2853869
Oh and I forgot to add there was a few Latin course classes, but they proved to be unpopular. If I remember the last time I seen the thread there was less than 40 or 50 posts.

[Anonymous No.2853872]

>>2853870
>>2853867

tl;dr INCESTUAL RAEP

It is the perfect story for 4chan it is full of sex and violence.

>>2853869

Spanish is really easy though, it has no patrician-cred.

[Anonymous No.2853873]

>>2853872
Since Spanish is easy I think that there would be more people dedicated to it compared to Latin. Trust me, this board always falls away from anything too difficult.

[Anonymous No.2853874]

>>2853873

Okay well I'm in then I guess, why not? I just want to learn to read Spanish. I was in an immersion program when I was a lad and last year my downstairs neighbor was taking me to church with him and teaching me little bits of Spanish but I had to move away ;_;

[Anonymous No.2853876]

you must realise that roman peasants spoke latin just like the noblemen

[Anonymous No.2853887]

>>2853876

Hahaha yup, though their Latin wasn't quite as good. I think that Apollonius text is close to the way they may have actually talked - lots of compound verbs, redundancy, confusion of "dum" and "cum", misuse of the subjunctive, etc.

[Anonymous No.2853906]

What are some great philosophical / historical texts that shine in latin?

[Anonymous No.2853907]

>>2853870

> Sed cum sui pectoris vulnus ferre non posset, quadam die prima luce vigilans inrumpit cubiculum filiae suae, famulos longe excedere iussit, quasi cum filia secretum conloquium habiturus, et stimulante furore libidinis diu repugnanti filiae suae nodum virginitatis eripuit, perfectoque scelere evasit cubiculum.

fap fap fap

[Anonymous No.2853914]

>>2853906

Cicero's De Natura Deorum, it's very difficult though because of the restrictions of the Latin vocabulary. It's a fascinating text but I got bored of flipping to the commentary every other sentence so I dropped it personally.

If you want to learn ancient philosophy it's best to just learn Greek, I think.

There's always Boethius' Consolatio though. Now THAT'S something, he wrote it as he was awaiting execution in the prison of some Germanic king (Theodoric?), and though it's technically from the "dark ages" his Latin is pristine. Here's one of his poems (the book goes back and forth from poetry to prose):


1 Carmina qui quondam studio florente peregi,
2 flebilis heu maestos cogor inire modos.
3 Ecce mihi lacerae dictant scribenda Camenae
4 et ueris elegi fletibus ora rigant.
5 Has saltem nullus potuit peruincere terror,
6 ne nostrum comites prosequerentur iter.
7 Gloria felicis olim uiridisque iuuentae,
8 solantur maesti nunc mea fata senis.
9 Uenit enim properata malis inopina senectus
10 et dolor aetatem iussit inesse suam.
11 Intempestiui funduntur uertice cani
12 et tremit effeto corpore laxa cutis.
13 Mors hominum felix, quae se nec dulcibus annis
14 inserit et maestis saepe uocata uenit.
15 Eheu, quam surda miseros auertitur aure
16 et flentes oculos claudere saeua negat!
17 Dum leuibus male fida bonis fortuna faueret
18 paene caput tristis merserat hora meum;
19 nunc quia fallacem mutauit nubila uultum
20 protrahit ingratas impia uita moras.
21 Quid me felicem totiens iactastis, amici?
22 Qui cecidit, stabili non erat ille gradu.

[Anonymous No.2853919]

>>2853906

Or there's the Pro Archia, it's one of Cicero's speeches, he's defending a Greek poet's citizenship and in the course of the speech defends art in general. The famous line is:

Etenim omnes artes quae ad humanitatem pertinent, habent commune quoddam vinculum et, quasi cognatione, inter se continentur

[Anonymous No.2853936]

>>2853914

Oh I should add Boethius' Consolatio is about the relationship between divine providence and free-will. It was written in the sixth century and some speculate that Boethius was a crypto-pagan.

[Anonymous No.2854018]

I cant read any of this shit ;_;

feels pleb

can any of you niggers translate the incest thing?

[Anonymous No.2854022]

>>2854018
>feels pleb
>can any of you niggers translate the incest thing?
I wish /mu/ would leave

[Anonymous No.2854033]

>>2854022
pleb to fit the latin theme

[Anonymous No.2854037]

>>2854018

Sure bra, this isn't literal but it gives the sense better.

Once upon a time in the city Antioch there was a king named Antiochus, from whom the city took its name, Antioch. He had one daughter, a most beautiful young woman, in whom nature had made no mistake, besides making her a mortal. When the girl had reached the marital age and her figure and beauty were increasing, many men sought her in matrimony, running to her with promises of a great bide-price. And when her father was trying to decide to whom he would best marry her, an evil desire driving him, by the flame of concupiscence he fell in love with his daughter and began to love her in another way than a father ought. The king, when he fought with this madness and sorrow, was conquered by Love; his piety left him, he forgot that he was a father and began to think of himself as a boyfriend. And when he could no longer bear the wound in his chest [HNNNNG], one day, waking up at the first sign of daylight, he broke into his daughter's bedroom, ordered the slaves to go far away, as if he were about to have a private conversation with the girl, and, stimulated by the madness of his lust, he took the virginity of his long-resisting daughter, and with the crime done he left her room. The girl standing marveled at the impiety of her father, and began to hide the flowing blood: but drops of blood had fallen on the floor.

[Anonymous No.2854042]

>>2854037

And before some pedant comes along I KNOW I changed the tenses in some places, there's literal translation and proper translation and my translation is closer to the latter.

[Anonymous No.2854044]

>>2854037
jesus, where can I learn latin?

[Anonymous No.2854050]

>>2854044

[Anonymous No.2854057]

>mfw 21 years old and don't know any languages fluently

How long does it take to learn latin?

[Anonymous No.2854065]

>>2854057
Were you raised by wolves?

[Anonymous No.2854066]

>>2854065

>foreign languages

[Anonymous No.2854067]

>>2854065
No, mimes.

[Anonymous No.2854069]

>>2854057
~3 years?

But no one actually speaks latin, you know?

[Anonymous No.2854070]

>>2854057

A year or two if you practice every day. If you don't do at least 15-20 minutes of serious translating every day, and preferably more like an hour, you never really master it.

It takes a lot of dedication to be able to fluently read a heavily inflected dead language that nobody speaks anymore.

[Anonymous No.2854072]

>>2854070
are there any latin message boards

seems like a cool idea to start one

[Anonymous No.2854074]

>>2854050

Wheelock sucks, I prefer this because it gets you reading lots of Latin right from the start and you learn lots of grammar intuitively. You need to do some grammatical practice outside what the text gives you though.

The whole book is Latin. You start out with very simple sentences ("Roma in Europa est") and by the end you're reading some Donatus and Martial, the second book in the series gives you more "fake-Latin" but after a few chapters you're just reading straight Livy and Cicero and Sallust and whatnot. When I become a Latin teacher, this is the textbook I will use.

[Anonymous No.2854077]

>>2854072

There are but they're very slow. They're good to go to if you have any questions but you're better off emailing a professor. Professors of Classics love people who love classics, they will give you assistance even if you aren't a student (I've literally looked up random professors on google and asked them for help at some points in my Latin-learning career).

[Anonymous No.2854081]

>>2853876
Nope.jpg

Latin - lingua latina - was the language of the educated elites. The unwashed masses spoke their silly vernacular, known as sermo vulgaris (literally 'speech of the people').

[Anonymous No.2854098]

>>2854081
The Roman educated elite preferred Greek.

[Anonymous No.2854102]

>>2854081
it's the same latin, just different dialects and accents, faggot.


anyway, there is no hierarchy of language so this thread is stupid.

[Anonymous No.2854159]

>>2854074
i had the chance to buy that at a used book store for a couple of bucks but it just seemed like it was watered down for political correctness.

[Anonymous No.2854162]

>>2854102

All those classifications are arbitrary. Do you think this is bad Latin or weird French? It's neither, it's Gallo-Romance

Pro Deo amur et pro christian poblo et nostro commun saluament, d'ist di in auant, in quant Deus sauir et podir me dunat, si saluarai eo cist meon fradre Karlo, et in adiudha et in cadhuna cosa si cum om per dreit son fradra saluar dist, in o quid il mi altresi fazet. Et ab Ludher nul plaid nunquam prindrai qui meon uol cist meon fradre Karle in damno sit.

[Anonymous No.2854163]

i wish i had this gent as a teacher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVBN0_UOL6I

[Anonymous No.2854164]

>>2854159

The stories about the Roman family are a little PC but it's meant to be used by middle school students so what can you expect? The Latin is excellent.

>>2854102

And how 'bout dis one? Is this bad Latin or early Romance?

Vallis autem ipsa ingens est ualde, iacens subter latus montis Dei, quae habet forsitan, quantum potuimus uidentes aestimare aut ipsi dicebant, in longo milia passos forsitan sedecim, in lato autem quattuor milia esse appellabant.

it's neither

[Anonymous No.2854169]

can somebody tell me whats happening here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKLDQLjCLG4&feature=related

[Anonymous No.2854174]

>The stories about the Roman family are a little PC but it's meant to be used by middle school students so what can you expect? The Latin is excellent.

So whats wrong with the Latin in Wheelock's?

[Anonymous No.2854175]

>>2854169

It's a joke-poem about Catullus's penis.

[Anonymous No.2854178]

>>2854174

That he doesn't have you read very much. You're taught to translate, not to read. People educated by Wheelock end up looking at Latin sentences like crossword puzzles ("oh! there's the verb! and then . . . ok! I think I found the subject!")

Orberg's book teaches you to just read Latin one word after the next like you read English, which is much more rewarding.

[Anonymous No.2854189]

How can I learn French on my own?

I took about 3 unsuccessful years of it in middle/high school, so I know enough to read most of it. Writing it, speaking it and especially listening to it are still very difficult.

I feel like a dumbass for only being fluent in English

[Anonymous No.2854192]

>>2854189
why would you want to learn french? not even the french speak french

[Anonymous No.2854193]

>>2854178

In fact Orberg is so good at teaching you to READ that when I started college I had to teach myself to translate.

It's much easier to just read a sentence like

" Tu autem, M. Antoni, (absentem enim appello) unum illum diem, quo in aede Telluris senatus fuit, non omnibus his mensibus, quibus te quidam, multum a me dissentientes, beatum putant, anteponis?"

Than to try to translate it into meaningful English; here it is, literally, and it will sound like shit because Latin doesn't translate well:

"Do you however, Mark Antony (for I call you though you're not here) not think that that one day, when the senate was in the temple of Tellus, is preferable to these months, in which some think (disagreeing much with me) that you are blessed?"

[Anonymous No.2854195]

>>2854192
Only because I already know the basics and there is a lot of French literature I'd like to read in the native language

[Anonymous No.2854201]

>>2854192

Ain't it the truth, they drop entire syllables.

[Anonymous No.2854204]

>>2854193
yeah, well i guess when you say it like that i feel like i should have bought it. but i feel like the reading passages at the end of each chapter in Wheelock's are so worthwhile.

this one in particular i read over and over again, trying to intuitively get the meaning. but more often than not you just end up translating it into english in your head.

[Anonymous No.2854208]

>>2854204

There's a good guide to de-Wheelocking yourself here:

http://www.txclassics.org/old/ginny_articles1.htm

Basically read one word at a time if you can. It'll get a lot easier with daily practice.

[Anonymous No.2854213]

>>2854204

Yeah dude I'm not trying to be a dick but that's not even the real Latin from the speech. The actual Latin is:

Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra? quam diu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit audacia? Nihilne te nocturnum praesidium Palati, nihil urbis vigiliae, nihil timor populi, nihil concursus bonorum omnium, nihil hic munitissimus habendi senatus locus, nihil horum ora voltusque moverunt? Patere tua consilia non sentis, constrictam iam horum omnium scientia teneri coniurationem tuam non vides? Quid proxima, quid superiore nocte egeris, ubi fueris, quos convocaveris, quid consilii ceperis, quem nostrum ignorare arbitraris? [2] O tempora, o mores! Senatus haec intellegit. Consul videt; hic tamen vivit. Vivit? immo vero etiam in senatum venit, fit publici consilii particeps, notat et designat oculis ad caedem unum quemque nostrum. Nos autem fortes viri satis facere rei publicae videmur, si istius furorem ac tela vitemus. Ad mortem te, Catilina, duci iussu consulis iam pridem oportebat, in te conferri pestem, quam tu in nos [omnes iam diu] machinaris.

Wheelock teaches you grammar and translation, it ultimately doesn't help you really read Latin with enjoyment.

And I still do have to parse sentences sometimes, but much much less often than the friends I have who were taught with Wheelock.

[Anonymous No.2854219]

>>2854213
i know what you're trying to say but that particular passage was modified for the first year Latin student.

[Anonymous No.2854222]

>>2854219
i should add, 'purposely modified'

[Anonymous No.2854223]

>>2854219

Yeah dude 'tis all good I'm just trying to show you how far practice-sentences are from Latin.

Learning with Wheelock and then trying to read Cicero or Virgil is like taking an ESL class or two and trying to read Shakespeare or Milton. Orberg's book slowly works you up from "Roma in Europa est. Roma in Italia est. Italia in Europa est." to, as the last chapter of the second book, Cicero's Somnium Scipionis.

[Anonymous No.2854457]

how come you can put Ubi both before and after a sentence?

what is the difference?

also where can you buy Lingua Latina in print?

[Anonymous No.2854465]

>>2854457

There are lots of reasons give me an example.

I don't know if it is still in print honestly but you can usually find copies on amazon.

[Anonymous No.2854473]

>>2854465
Ubi est Nilus?

Rhenus ubi est?

btw I end up trying to translate it to english anyways in my head before I can move on?

how am I supposed to learn it like the way its supposed to be learned?

[Anonymous No.2854482]

>>2854473

"Ubi" is an adverb, you can put it anywhere in the sentence. Latin word order is very free.

You could say Rhenum est ubi? if you wanted, though that'd be unusual. The basic word-order is Subject-Object-Verb but that gets broken all the time. The endings of words are what tell you what a word is "doing" in a sentence.

For example, "Roma in Italia est" - the terminal "a" in "Italia" is long. But when you say "Italia in Europa est" that same a is short - but long in the word Europa.

You're going to be sub-translating for a long time, it's normal, but ideally you sub-translate one word at a time.

[Anonymous No.2854484]

>>2854482

*Rhenus, my b

Pay attention to the marginal notes, also if you order the whole set it comes with a supplementary booklet thing that explains the grammar introduced in the chapter. Just this thin paperback.

I'm pretty sure you can order everything straight from the publisher. The problem with the torrents is they usually don't include the "supplementary booklet". But I sound like I work for the company now, heh.

[Anonymous No.2854502]

>>2854484
thx

Im actually looking to get this book now

seems like a lot of work though

I wish they taught this shit in HS instead of forcing kids to learn a language they have no interest in

[Anonymous No.2854511]

>>2854502

It is a lot of work man but it's super rewarding work. When you read Virgil/Vergil in the original it's like an entirely new world of poetry. The biggest hurdle, as with any language, is vocabulary. The good thing about Latin is that

1.) a lot of Latin words become English, it wouldn't take a genius to guess that the word "majestas" means "majesty" (though it also means "treason")
2.) Latin has a pretty small vocabulary
3.) Of that small vocabulary, tons of words are just prepositions + a base verb. So if you know "ferre" means "to bear [something]", you'll eventually easily recognize that "afferre" means "to bear [something] to [somewhere]"

But yeah you do have to memorize word-lists and grammatical paradigms unfortunately. All the practice in the world won't help a ton if you don't know that "rei publicae" can be dative OR genitive, etc.

[Anonymous No.2854542]

>>2854511
>Of that small vocabulary, tons of words are just prepositions + a base verb.
yeah sounds good on paper but not in practice since every word has 35 different endings and those are all words per se

but thats part of what anon is getting at when he talks about being able to read it on the fly

i make flashcards not just for the dictionary entry but for different endings and some phrases

[Anonymous No.2854861]

Does anyone have first hand experience in using ANKI to learn Latin or any other language for that matter? I'm not sure if i should use ANKI alone or as a supplement to Lingua Latina.
For those of you who don't know what it is here is the link
>http://ankisrs.net/whyreview.html

[Anonymous No.2854867]

Fuck Latin.

Quiero practicar mi español.

[Anonymous No.2854874]

>>2854867
>Me gusta hombres machos.

ftfy

[Anonymous No.2854888]

>>2853864
Then you could help us out, maybe?

[Anonymous No.2854939]

>>2854867

Latin is awesome for reading some of the best poetry the world has to offer in its original language. You can't read The Aeneid or The Iliad in English and expect to remotely get all that you an out of it.

[Anonymous No.2855668]

OP here, I thought this thread died after no one responded.

I used the Wheelock books in my undergrad when I took 2 years of Latin. I barely remember anything though. I suggest buying the Loab books, they have them for ancient Greek and Latin. The Latin is on the left while an English translation is on the right. They have literally everything. From late stuff like Thomas Moore's Utopia to the works of Ovid, Cicero, Virgil, Horace etc. Every Greek writer as well. You can usually find em on amazon.

[Anonymous No.2855738]

>>2855668

They're good to start but don't buy too many IMO because after a certain point having the English on the right side is more a drawback than an advantage.

Once you're at the intermediate or advanced stage (i.e. you understand the grammar entirely and have a solid vocabulary) you want to be reading texts with a commentary in the back, like the Cambridge Greek & Latin Classics Series. They gloss idioms and explain historical references etc.

[Catullus !!41zMcUxVNjx No.2855774]

>>2853871
Sorry about that, but you're right: they proved to be wildly unpopular. I considered resuming them at the start of summer, but /lit/ died down even more. Plus I'm busy with my own studies.

Since then I've picked up and studied "Lingua Latina: Familia Romana" and could definitely diversify the lesson plans, but I'd only consider it if there was enough interest among /lit/ (which there doesn't seem to be much, if any at all.)

[Anonymous No.2855814]

>>2853906
Seneca
Cicero
Thomas Aquinas
Utopia - Thomas More
Meditations on First Philosophy - Descartes
Praise of The Folly - Erasmus

That's all I could think of

[Anonymous No.2855855]

>>2855774

Yeah the only people that get excited about these threads are people who already know Latin.