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/lit/ - Literature

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2850102 No.2850102 [Reply] [Original]

The more Fitzgerald I read the more I want to break into the upper class, but, I want to bring myself from middle class to upper class in an "old money" fashion. My first step is to find out what an old money family's portfolio consists of.

>Real Estate
>Mass shares of companies
(Fill in the blank here)

>> No.2850106

Expert social skills and good taste

>> No.2850108

>The more Fitzgerald I read the more I want to break into the upper class

doing, wrong, etc etc

watch real housewiveves of new jersey

>> No.2850122

£5000 worth of cutlery
£10000 worth of bone china
£50000 worth of clothes
£100000 worth of car (at least)
And so on. It'll mostly be really expensive versions of everyday things.

>> No.2850124

Get really rich and invest in real estate. Plan over the very long term.

>> No.2850127

>>2850102
Old money implies you acquired your wealth through privilege rather than profit. Good luck with that!

>> No.2850203
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2850203

Gatsby got his $$ from bootlegging alcohol. Today's equivalent would be marijuana or meth maybe

>> No.2850305

just don't spend your money. live frugally. don't buy things, make investments. diversify your portfolio, a little bit here, a little bit there, but have a big chunk of something too.

>> No.2850495

You do realised that this wealth was aquired over generations. Ie strategic (ie planned) marriages and the like, a divorce or a dodgy grandchild can ruin everything.

That and conspicuous consumption

>> No.2850545

>>2850203
dat 12 y/o

>> No.2850584

>tfw you will only be nouveau riche

Sell pot, make paper
Get to it cunt.

>> No.2850617
File: 231 KB, 540x720, 1343531912166.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2850617

>>2850495
Nah bro he was born poor then became an illegal alcohol seller to get rich to score Daisy, kind of an important plot point there

>> No.2850623

>>2850617
If you remember what his father said, it sounded like Gatsby always wanted to get rich.

>> No.2850631

>>2850623
wtf are you talking about

>> No.2850635

Maybe Gatsby pillage dem fine prestine German mansions.

>> No.2850646

>>2850631
When he was young he had the little schedule in his notebook wasn't it? Something like that.

>> No.2850826

As a guy from "old money" I will say the life is easy but sinister.

I live in high society England, I spend my time playing Tennis, Skydiving and Base-jumping. Driving my fathers sports cars and being schooled on property investments.

It's hell, I can't have a real girlfriend due to my grandfather being of royal blood, my parents only see fit I marry a future duchess or princess or someone from a prestigious family.

Also what you have heard about it being a social high-wire are true. One slip at a gathering and you will be outlawed so to speak.

Oh, and my cutlery set cost £17,500

Ask me some questions, can't release personals of course.

>> No.2850830

>>2850826

>> I can't have a real girlfriend

many men of high breeding have taken a mistress. Or are you not allowed to do this until you're older?

>> No.2850839
File: 63 KB, 550x404, diogenes4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2850839

>>2850826
Are you ever temped to live the honest but simple life?

Also, can't you promise your parents to stay out of their shit if you retire to a cottage in southern France with a couple of thousand a month?

Or are you the lone heir?

>> No.2850844

>>2850826
How many people can you serve with your cutlery set? What kind of artwork hangs in your house?

>> No.2850846

>>2850102
You should read Bukowski and attain reasonable goals.

>> No.2850848

>>2850826
I live in the UK, can I have your old cutlery set? I could live off that for a couple of years.

>> No.2850849

>>2850830
Taking a mistress in this day is social suicide for an heir.
>>2850839
I'm the lone male heir, male heirs are obviously more desirable.
I spent 6 months working in a factory, It's not worth squandering my inheritance, I like the rich things in life.

They would let me, but it still causes a shit-storm when my sisters inherit. Women are still looked down upon in high society.

>>2850844
30 The most expensive pieces are the Master cutlery, for the heads of the table, Diamonds in the handles of the Forks, Rubies in the knives, Sapphire in the Spoons.

We have only eaten with them once. There from the 16th century I believe.

My father doesn't like art, he knows all about it for high society reasons, but he doesn't hang it in the house we do have suits of Armour though lying around for decoration and various plaques and hunting trophies and a few guns on display.

>> No.2850851

>>2850826

Is the stereotype of old money being cultured and well read in the classics still valid?

Is there official inheritance rules like primogeniture that apply to all english nobility or do all the families have different rules ?

>> No.2850855

>>2850851
You nominate them in the will or you stand down in favour of an heir, normally they stand down because wills have been contested before.

We read a lot because we have the time really and yes being cultured is of the utmost importance for gatherings.

>> No.2850861
File: 15 KB, 400x300, snickers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2850861

>>2850826
What is the proper etiquette when eating a snickers bar?

>> No.2850862

>>2850861

Well, the general rule of thumb is you don't eat shit in front of anyone. So I'd eat it like a normal person in my study or wherever. Just not in company.

>> No.2850863

Youve touched on it when you mentioned the trouble with relationships, are there any other things which you wish you could do but cant due to your position?

>> No.2850864

>>2850863
Just relationships really, I can't be an idiot in public. I can't go to certain night clubs, I can't be seen in certain neighborhoods. But I'm not well known outside of high society so the chances of being caught are slim.

Some of the better things are what I can do with the power.

>> No.2850866

>>2850864
Favourite book(s) ?

Also does the whole notion of nouveau riche individuals marrying into a poor aristocratic family still possible?

>> No.2850869

>>2850866
Who wants to marry an inbred?

>> No.2850870

Can you move between classes like that in other countries? It's very rigid in the UK, you're only upper class if you're born into the aristocracy. Hence all the kerfuffle over Kate and Wills, she may have gone to very good schools and been born into money, but teehee, her mother once asked where the toilet was instead of the loo.

>> No.2850875

>>2850866
No, doesn't happen.
I don't have a single favourite book.

>>2850870
Hell, the amount of people who have "joined" high society is ridiculous, it's easy to join now. A very rich man will find friends in high society fast, the do it for investments, and then he is introduced at the next major gathering.

I have to go now, I have meetings about taking over the family business.

Ill try remember the thread when I get back in 6 hours.

>> No.2850879

1. If you've been reading Fitzgerald, you'll know that breaking in in an "old money" fashion will get you killed, and even if you briefly succeed, no one will really respect you, since the American dream is dead and stratification is too powerful.
2. You'd also know that "old money" is bullshit and just as shitty and hollow as "new money".

>> No.2850889
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2850889

>>2850102

Read this.

>> No.2850891

you need money to make money or every pauper would be a king

>> No.2850903
File: 49 KB, 334x489, nechaev.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2850903

>>2850875
How does it feel there are millions of people who would execute you if they had the chance, merely for what you represent?

>> No.2851376

>>2850903

I'm back.

I doesn't phase me, jealous of what I have because at least one of my ancestors knew how to be successful.

I pay more a phenomenal amount of tax more than them. Most of high society do. It's a lot of the new money one-offs that evade. (Celebrities, Footballers, Lottery winners)

They can hate me for having more money than them, but we contribute more to the good of our country and to the world.

>> No.2851391

>>2850826

>rich heir with a sports car and uses jewelry for eating desserts browses 4chan
>sound legit

>> No.2851419

>>2850646
Yeah, he'd been seeking to rise above his class since he was a child. Daisy was just his final motivation.

>> No.2851420

You don't break into the upper class. Not anymore.

>> No.2851424

>>2851376
What's the opinion of the monarchy among the aristocracy?

>> No.2851427

So is /lit just a catch-all for stupid threads?
I thought that's what /b was for.

>> No.2851447

>>2850875

That's not entering the upper class though, is it? Kate Middleton was born into a family of millionaires, went to public schools, married the heir to the throne and she still isn't considered upper class. My boyfriend's family are rich, he went to one of the Rugby schools alongside aristocracy and monarchy, and still wouldn't ever call himself upper class because his family only came into money with his grandparents and they're not titled or historic landowners.

>> No.2851474

>>2851376

Are you American? I'm curious because you mention living in England, but British aristocracy don't usually give a shit about froofy manners (worrying about that kind of thing is so middle class, yah?) and would rather eat their own muddy Land Rover than admit they know how much their cutlery is worth.

>> No.2851476

You will fail, and the rich will be swallowed.

>> No.2851532

>>2851376

Which generation made the transition from middle class to upper class, and how? How do they maintain their wealth? Do you live in a manor house? Any tips on investment advice, buying raw land vs buying a small home, things like that, etc.

>> No.2851544

>>2851532
I am curious as well.

>> No.2851547

>>2851532
Also, how does religion play into everything in this day and age? I know it had been a very important part of the aristocratic system in the past, but does it still hold as much weight as it used to? What about education? Surely prestigious prep schools and universities are the norm, but is it true that some are educated privately at home as young children and skip out on going to uni as a way to dodge socializing with a lower class? How prevalent are drugs and tattoos among the elite?

>> No.2851555

>be average middle class family
>get a scholarship to a college prep school
>leave my small midwestern town
>introduced to a world of wealth and culture I never would have known otherwise

It's all about who you know, OP

>> No.2851591

>>2851555
Too late for that. At a small liberal arts college right now, maybe I will break into a prestigious school for my MBA.

>> No.2851625

>2851424
Not discussed really, we tend to like them because we see the benefits of having them around, great tourism and the Upper Echelon have more strength so to speak. (British Upper Class is more "upper" than American etc)

>>2851447
It is, so to speak. It depends on what you do once you have the contacts. In my address book I know of about 7/8 upper class individuals who got here due to there fathers/Grandfathers striking rich and being charismatic enough and well cultured to "fit in"

>>2851474
British.

>> No.2851628

>>2851532
A generation doesn't become upper class, is slower than that, people join, stick around for a while until they lose there money or one man splits his inheritance between too many children. There is a general base of Upper class though, land owners, title holders generally stay upper class.
Maintaining wealth is hard, land is solid investment, but requires large amounts money as a capital to get the ball rolling. Investing in relevant companies, None of that investing in facebook or google shit. Most investments are in chemical companies at the moment, just like they where in industry early in the 1900's.

Capital of £500,00 or less, invest in homes.
Capital of £750,000 or more, invest in land and develop in it.
In between is pot luck, homes are safer investments in that range but still yield less.

>>2851547
Nice question, my family are protestant, I can still trace back to when my family turned from Catholic. Religion counts for a lot, I only know of Christians and the occasional Buddhist. in High Society. NEVER seen a Muslim in the upper echelon.

I was home schooled with my sisters and a few others (house keepers son got one of the best educations in the country through us)

Drugs more so than tattoos. My father has a tattoo on his back of a Kraken being fought by crusaders. Me and my mother are the only ones who know.

I don't have a degree, as my father put it "Its a piece of paper idiots use to prove they know something."

>> No.2851671

>>2851628

Yes well, sadly, that piece of paper is almost required for the majority of us "idiots" to get good employment. Also, if I had a tattoo of a fucking Kraken fighting Crusaders on my back I probably wouldn't go around calling people idiots.

>> No.2851674

>>2850102
>implying this thread isn't about the fact that OP recently saw the batman movie and secretly wants to become batman, a billionaire extraordinare

>> No.2851676

>>2851628
Your dad has a tatoo, implying you are even close to aristocracy.

You might be upper class, but a lot of people are. True wealth isn't money. It's a name.

>> No.2851683

>>2851676
Does your family have a coat of arms?

Na I didn't think so.

I bet one of the reigning monarchs grandchildren have tattoos, there is a reason you don't hear about them

>> No.2851686

Justin Bieber makes 400 thousand dollars per concert, and had a networth estimated at about 50 million for just 2011, he will be more upper class and rich than you.

In your entire life you will always be destitute compared to him.

>> No.2851690

>>2851686
yeah, AND he's a cutie

>> No.2851695

>>2851686
But he will never have class.

>> No.2851698

Where does a charismatic, British, self-made man like Richard Branson fit into things?

>> No.2851708

>>2851686

It isn't so much about how much money you have, but how you utilize your money and the way you live your life.

>> No.2851709

>I have to go now, I have meetings about taking over the family business.

Sounds legit.

>> No.2851711

>>2851698
new money

>> No.2851718

>>2851376
>jealous
why do people always assume this.
I for one actually pity you.

>> No.2851719

TC, are your family angular, and if so, how angular?

>> No.2851720

>Taking a mistress in this day is social suicide for an heir.

If you believe that you'll believe anything. This guy is a sham for sure.

>> No.2851725

Hey OP, take a picture of you cutlery set with timestamp /lit/ written on it. OR, take a picture of something you own that is very valuable + timestamp.

By doing this you will prove (to me anyway) that you are legit.

Otherwise, fuck off troll.

>> No.2851736
File: 158 KB, 1600x1200, bb8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2851736

>>2851725

>> No.2851746

>>2851725

I am OP, I am not the one talking about being an heir of some sort. I wanted information on how to break into the upper class and what assets define wealth.

>> No.2851752

>>2851746
He hijacked your thread a while a ago, he is now OP. You're a nobody.

>> No.2851758

Of course that anon isn't legit, he's coming across like a male Hyacinth Bucket with a working class person's image of how "posh people" act- talking loudly about how expensive your teaspoons are and how one mustn't ever act unseemly in public.

>> No.2851763

>>2851752
Story of my life

>> No.2851766

>>2851758
You never know, maybe anon will shut us all up with a timestamp of his jewel encrusted cutlery.

Would be pretty epic.

But as it stands, I don't believe a word he has said. But he did take a lot of time to write all that bullshit out, so it is either a very sad individual desperate for attension, or somebody who is testing out their lying and writing abilities.

Either way, pretty weak, unless of course he delivers, which would make this an epic bread.

>> No.2851769

>>2851711
Well yeah, but there must be a point where you have so much money and so much power that it hardly matters whether or not you're new or old money, right?

>> No.2851774

>>2851766
Believe me or not I'm not driving 100+miles to take a picture of my fathers forks.

I'm in the north at the moment staying in a modest town house waiting to go skydiving tomorrow.

>> No.2851785

>>2851774
You have no pictures on your computer that could prove you're sincere? This is the internet chum, and the old age law is "pics or it didn't happen". It's either that you deliver or consider yourself a fraud in all our eyes.

If you are going to claim that you "don't care", then why did you spend all your time answering our questions and "showing off".

You're move.

>> No.2851786

>>2850102
...The definition of old money is that you are born into it and it is a clique you, OP, will never join. Deal with it new money.

>> No.2851787

>>2851785
Your* move.

>> No.2851816

>fathers forks
>Its a piece
>lose there money
>just like they where
>due to there fathers
>I doesn't phase me
>There from the 16th century
>Driving my fathers sports cars

>house keepers son got one of the best educations in the country through us

I'd say that thieving little bastard went and stole your entire education tbh.

>> No.2851823
File: 40 KB, 453x576, You+really+think+someone+would+do+that+.+Just+go+on_981b71_3201562.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2851823

>>2851816

>> No.2851828

Has anyone ever noticed how there are a lot of social status threads on /lit/? Class, money, education, lifestyle, etc. but it's all about social status. Why is this? No other board has threads like this often, except for /class/.

>> No.2851835

>>2851828
Because in general we are, if not more intelligent then more academic than the rest of 4chan, a majority of whom tend to be chronic underachievers. As a result of that, some of us have the desire to rise above our station.

>> No.2851845

>>2851828
Because Gatsbay and the American Dream.

>> No.2851848

>>2851835
Let's suppose you are more intelligent, wouldn't it follow that you would be more apt to understand the false ego maniacal urges of your DNA and reject climbing up some social ladder for ambiguous desires?

pls respond

>> No.2851850

>>2851848
You're a bit of an idiot.

>> No.2851856

>>2851850
Because reading Fitzgerald and suddenly wanting to be in some half-baked different reality like those characters is a desire built on iron-clad logic. Got it.

>> No.2851914

>>2851856
You have to remember that the object of desire (objet petit a) is not that which is desired, it is the (unkowable/unattainable) Thing (ding-am-sich) that is missed or lacked (manquer) which is desired (the relation is not to the object, but to its lack). The object of desire simply powers or causes the desire in the first place.

The death drive Gatsby dies is part of this regulator (the pleasure principle) with manquer: it prevents us from reaching or knowing the Thing by masking the symbolic order. Further, by looking at this repitition in the symbolic order, we can go beyond the pleasure principle and achieve a jouissance.

>> No.2851954
File: 4 KB, 118x130, Young-Black-Man-Looking-Confused-988069.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2851954

>>2851914
So the desire is fed by an unrelenting plight of addiction (or hunger) that didn't need to exist, which is projected to whatever subjectively chosen object(s) in order to perpetuate digging a new hole that can't be filled.

...And people choose to bring kids into this game???!

>> No.2851984

This thread went full on stupid.

>> No.2851989

>>2851984
>Can't handle that all his "satisfactions" are built on, and run, a deficit.

>> No.2852002

>>2851989
>attempting to make broad and sweeping generalizations not based in science to explain motivation and desire
>with gay little foreign words to boot

Pretentious levels are clocked at 9001

>> No.2852005

>>2852002
which one of those words is foreign, exactly? Just so we're clear.

>> No.2852011

>>2852002
>hurr durr everything must be based in "science"
I seeing a no true scotsman.

>> No.2852014

I love this thread, the fact that "OP" (the one who highjacked it) is a troll makes it even more interesting.

Still, troll or not, there is truth in here. Too bad no clues for young go-getters who want to do something with their lives.

>> No.2852017

>>2852002
>not based in science
>a DNA molecule run amok whose purpose is to reproduce organisms with constant insatiable needs

>> No.2852019

>>2852017
>purpose

ah ah ah, there you go again.

>> No.2852020

By the way I still think that >>2850106 is the best advice ever given.

My ambitions are to live a decent living (obviously the more the better) and not be a fucking slave like my maid or my gardener. In these times, I surely am afraid of a "life" like that.

>> No.2852029

>>2852020
>my ambitions
>shit

Thanks for sharing, I guess. I myself want to make and then eat the largest chocolate bar in the world, but you don't see me telling people about my own stupid ambition, now do you

>> No.2852032

>>2852019
That is its chemical purpose by reasonable observation. Are you done taking a shit?

>> No.2852038

>>2852029
Thanks for replying, I guess. Maybe there are other people ignoring me but you don't see them posting them here, do you.

>> No.2852063

>>2852032
>purpose

I'm pretty sure you mean "design", as to assign a "purpose" to an object gives it a kind of reason for being, which living things clearly do not have in any innate sense.

>> No.2852074

>>2852014

Some thoughts from a (semi) successful 19 year old investor and college student studying economics and finance.

Assets are things that you own that are not liabilities. A car is a liability, it will never go up in value, you have to replace parts and spend money on maintenance just for it to even maintain it's value. The second you drive it off the lot it drops in price. A home is considered an asset. It will probably go up in value over a period of time no matter what you do to it. Yes, you have to spend money maintaining it, but the costs will not out value the future profits.

With that being said, wealth is NOT just having assets, but having complete control over these assets. If you own an apartment in a luxury building surely the apartment will go up in value, but it will not go up based on the work or money you put into it. The building goes up in value, the apartment goes up. You can't even readily change the apartment, you have to answer to a HOA or board of directors. It is better to own a much smaller building that you could demolish if you wanted to, than to own a piece of someone else's larger estate.

Make yourself rich, not someone else.

Saving money is playing so that you don't lose, investing is playing to win.

>> No.2852091

So why exactly is The Great Gatsby so good?
Isn't it on the level of Childrens literature?

>> No.2852092

>>2852063
It's a chemical process we can deduce a purpose from by the evidence of its actions, its purpose is to replicate for the sake of replication, and we have sufficient data to say so reasonably. What's the problem?

>> No.2852097
File: 35 KB, 470x385, vintage-bentley.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2852097

>>2852074
>A car is a liability, it will never go up in value
Very true, this hunk of junk isn't even worth its cost in scrap.

I do have two bones to pick, the house you live in isn't ordinarily considered an asset, and investing is about not losing. If you "play to win" in the futures market, you'll get burned.

>> No.2852146

>>2852091
2/10

>> No.2852159

>>2852091
The Great Gatsby in the Hatsby.

>> No.2852169

>>2852159
The Monster at the End of this Gatsby

>> No.2852175

>>2852169
StellaGatsby

>> No.2852226

>>2852097

Obviously a vintage luxury vehicle can go up in value, but most common cars never will go back up. My 2004 VW Golf isn't going to be worth shit in 20 years along with even most luxury vehicles of today.

There are ways of losing money by investing but the fact is, you took a shot. A traditional savings account doesn't even keep up with inflation. You can just put your money into bonds or CD's and it is considered investing, not saving. Investing is to expend money with the expectation of gaining profit later. Whether it ends up working out or not, you were playing to win, not playing so you didn't lose.

>> No.2852246

Wtf are you people talking about? Gatsby is new money...

>> No.2852256

>>2852246
i hate to break it to you but there's more than one fitzgerald novel

>> No.2852270

>>2852256
>I want to bring myself from middle class to upper class in an "old money" fashion.

thanks for the tip faggot

>> No.2852283

>>2851628
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Stanley,_3rd_Baron_Stanley_of_Alderley

Lord Henry Stanley, the uncle of Bertrand Russell, was a Muslim.

>> No.2852288

>>2851676
I saw a picture of the queens grandchildren naked together in a hotel room, holding a champagne bottle. Do some google search.
>inb4 they aren't actually royals

>> No.2853078

>>2852226
>A traditional savings account doesn't even keep up with inflation.
If you look at savings accounts over the past 30 years, yes they do. What it doesn't usually keep up with is the stock market, for obvious reasons.
>You can just put your money into bonds
Inflation is bad for bonds.
>Whether it ends up working out or not, you were playing to win, not playing so you didn't lose.
The only reasons you have given for investing over saving are based on not losing as opposed to winning. The rise of the futures market and hedging are based on this philosophy too:`mitigation of risk at the expense of profit.

>> No.2853079

>>2852175
West Egg and (the) Hamptons.

>> No.2853148
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2853148

Still waiting for hijacker OP to deliver...

Come on man, make this an epic bread!