/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.2848721]

Why is everyone so fucking obsessed with this shit?
Seriously, fantasy readers are idolizing these books, going as far as calling this bile the new LOTR? Are you fucking serious. I got through the first 2 and ended up reading the wikipedia summaries of the other three pieces of shit and nothing changed, still a shitload of characters doing nothing that actually drives a central plot, a total lack of aforementioned plot in favour of a mash up of completely unrelated stories no one gives a shit about, and after five books still no main antagonist. People actually compare this fucking shit to LOTR? Fuck it and fuck GRRM for his "hurr durr we need a realistic fantasy novel" shit. Realistic fantasy is an oxymoron if you haven't noticed, so if your shit novel amounts to an altered version of medieval history with minimal magic involved, how bout being straight and calling it exactly that? Yes, the stereotypical bodiless evil incarnate in Mordor is a tired concept but there is a myriad of other ways to incorporate a central antagonist into a story.
Oh, and once again, despite subverting various fantasy tropes, he stuffs the story into another medieval Europe. Seriously, fuck you GRRM.
Advice: don't read this shit. If you want a worthwhile fantasy series, read the Stormlight Archive or at least the Wheel of Time. Don't waste your time on these endless pages of shit that you couldn't give half a fuck about.

[Anonymous No.2848723]

Yes, it's shit. Most people with half a brain realize this. No need for this useless thread.

[Anonymous No.2848791]

Hating popular things is edgy as fuck. You want some /lit/ street cred? Start a thread saying you don't like what's popular! Alllll the real serious readers do it just like that. Hell, you could have written that shit in your sleep! Read some Gatsby and get on my level!

[Anonymous No.2848803]

>>2848791
Gatsby's pretty popular. You should have gone for someone a bit more obscure, but shitty, like Houellebecq.

[Anonymous No.2848807]

Watch out guys we gotta edgy badass on /lit/

[Anonymous No.2848824]

Holy shit, I've been browsing /lit/ for a while now, and I always enjoyed ASOIAF. I thought it was the best shit ever. But fuck, I never even thought about it like OP is saying it.

[Anonymous No.2848819]

>>2848803
Yeah, but it does sorta fit the mentality of lit of hating what is really popular and then going for what is slightly less popular, thinking you've reached 'obscure'.

[Anonymous No.2848845]

That's a whole lotta words saying a whole lotta nothing, man.

[Anonymous No.2848848]

OP needs a clear cut bad guy who is and always will be bad and a clear-cut good guy who is and will always be good, with no grey area and no fluctuating human emotions or shifting motivations.

OP bashes Martin, then recommends The Wheel of Time, which is the worst thing ever written by a human, with not one original thought. It's Lord of the Rings with the names switched around.

My conclusion? OP is a fag.

[Anonymous No.2848879]

I haven't even read these, but
>implying novel is plot

[Anonymous No.2848982]

take this to /lit/

[Anonymous No.2848994]

>>2848848
>OP bashes Martin, then recommends The Wheel of Time, which is the worst thing ever written by a human, with not one original thought. It's Lord of the Rings with the names switched around.

it's really, really not

there are fantasy series you can legitimately make that accusation about (terry brooks, dennis l mckiernan) but past the first book, that is clearly not true of wheel of time. you can say it's not good, it does have myriad flaws, but you're pretty much wrong atm

[Anonymous No.2849026]

Hey OP, just want to throw out Malazan as another good fantasy series.

[Anonymous No.2849042]

>>2848982
>take this to /lit/

Is this some sort of metatroll or just an idiot who didn't realize what board he was on?

[Anonymous No.2849056]

>>2849026

Malazan is fucking horrible.

[Anonymous No.2849048]

All i see is a failed attempt at trolling.
1/10

[Anonymous No.2849072]

>still a shitload of characters doing nothing that actually drives a central plot, a total lack of aforementioned plot in favour of a mash up of completely unrelated stories no one gives a shit about, and after five books still no main antagonist.

This sentence. My sides.

OP needs things spelled out for him and villains to wear black

[Anonymous No.2849145]

>>2849056
I respect your opinion, but I disagree. It's a world rich in history and lore and goes beyond the powerlevel shit most people attribute to it. The characters and races were interesting and didn't fall into the Tolkien tropes of elves and dwarves. ASoIAF is alright, but I didn't care much for the political side of things, which is a pretty big aspect of the series.

[Anonymous No.2849230]

Downloading it right now.
Let's see if it's actually as good or as shitty as /lit/ always says.
I'm sure it's going to be neither and turn out as a mediocre waste of time though.
Anyone care to recommend me a fantasy novel that's actually good?

[Anonymous No.2849243]

>plot
>plot

>Failing to realize that its a character study

>still no main antagonist

>Wanting the same old black/white good/evil story we've seen a thousand times before, instead of varying shades of grey

Your complaints suck OP

[Anonymous No.2849247]

Is /lit/ defending a popular novel series?

[Anonymous No.2849271]

>>2849247
>he hasn't noticed the phenomena of the responders to threads mainly being those who disagree with the OP
/lit/ doesn't hate any popular novels. It's clearly fuckers from the outside who come and post them.

[Anonymous No.2849351]

>>2849230
It's a pretty outstanding series. Some of the most imaginative storytelling and characterization that you'll come across in literature. It's hated here because it's popular, it's associated with the fantasy genre and english lit students can't allow themselves to appreciate something because of their preconceived notions of the genre, and because it isn't prose literature (it's never intended to be).

[Anonymous No.2849391]

>>2849351
you're an idiot

asoiaf sucks dirty cocks

[Anonymous No.2849400]

>>2849230
read "shadow of the torturer," the first book in the "book of the new sun" tetralogy by gene wolfe, it's pretty fantastic once you get past the archaic language for certain things

[Anonymous No.2849406]

>>2849391
If you're looking for fantasy it's as good as the genre gets.

[Anonymous No.2849409]

>>2849400
I've got the whole series in one book.
It's called "Severian of the Guild" instead of "Book of the New Sun" for some reason though.

[Anonymous No.2849414]

>>2849406
you clearly haven't read much fantasy

[Anonymous No.2849415]

>>2849406
lolno

[Anonymous No.2849423]

Why waste your time with GRR Martin when you could be reading LeGuin? Or Moorcock? Or Beagle? Or Wynne Jones? Or White? Or ...

[Anonymous No.2849424]

>>2849414
What fantasy is superior to it?

[Anonymous No.2849434]

>>2849424
>>2849414
Like, half of all fantasy ever written?
Seriously dude. GoT is barely mediocre.

For a start, everything by those authors: >>2849423

[Anonymous No.2849442]

>>2849434
>Says half of fantasy
>Refers to another poster
>Gives no suggestions himself

Good going bro.

[Anonymous No.2849446]

>>2849423
>Wynne Jones
Fuck, I love you. Right in the childhood.

[Anonymous No.2849456]

>>2849424
Since you seem to prefer darker fantasy I suggest you read Elric of Melniboné or The Blade Itself.
Elric is clearly better than AGOT. I heard TBI is too but didn't read it yet.

[Anonymous No.2849457]

>>2849456

>Elric is clearly better than AGOT

[Anonymous No.2849469]

>>2849243

>varying shades of grey

wait for it...

...waaait for iiittt

[Anonymous No.2849471]

>>2849456
It's not. It's funnier, and the main series is actually finished but aside from that ASOIAF is better than The Blade itself.

[Anonymous No.2849472]

>>2849469
SHADES OF GREY! LOL

[Anonymous No.2849480]

I agree with OP.

Infinite Jest was indeed the best fantasy novel ever; anything else pales in comparison.

[Anonymous No.2849500]

>>2849423
Because GRRM isn't remotely similar to any of those authors. He does a completely different style. I mean Asoiaf can hardly be described as first and foremost fantasy compared to Le Guin.

[Anonymous No.2849511]

>>2849434
>GoT is barely mediocre.
How is it even possible for someone exposed to creative storytelling to believe this?

[Anonymous No.2850715]

I gave up about 1/3 of the way through book 3 yesterday.

>book 1: It was great to be introduced to the world and seeing the characters react to the major events.
>book 2: Barely anything happens.
>First 1/3 of book 3: Not a massive amount happens.

It feels like the characters spend most of their time literally travelling to or waiting for major plot points. The fact that it's book 3/7 adds to a sense of hopelessness.

[Anonymous No.2850740]

It seems like every time a good guy is about to do something awesome or punish a bad guy he gets his nuts ripped off,shown to him,then shoved down his own throat. I'm getting tired of that boring bitch daenerys. We all know how it's going to end. The white walkers start destroying westeros,then dany swoops in at the last second,saving everyone. She is then crowned the queen and we all wonder why the fuck it took so many books to accomplish. IMO,if you want a good ending make stannis crucify all the fuckers that deserve it then personally strangle cersei and ascend to the throne.

[Anonymous No.2850748]

Stopped reading halfway through A Storm of Swords. That was about two years ago. The current hype doesn't exactly help picking it up again. Won't happen, it seems.

[Anonymous No.2850750]

The only fantasy I've actually liked besides Lord of the Rings is Discworld. Is Steel Remains worth a read?

[Anonymous No.2850881]

I'm reading a game of thrones right now. 4 chapters in and the only thing I can say so far is that he isn't a very good writer. His style is very dry and boring.

[Anonymous No.2850896]

>>2850715
You're a retard, more happens in the second book than the first, and the third has the most action of the whole series. It's books four and five where little happens.

[Anonymous No.2850915]

>>2850750
by Morgan? Yeah, if you like fantasy about soldiers. It's also pretty unusual in that the main character is a fag, which is really weird for a badass fantasy warrior, i don't think anyone's ever done that before.

[Anonymous No.2850919]

>>2850896
hurrrrr after the first 7000 pages you get to the good stuff guys

[Anonymous No.2850926]

just read the amber chronicles instead. Ten of those books together are as long as one martin book and every one has more to say than the entire ASOIAF series

[Anonymous No.2850929]

>>2850919
No, merely the best part, the whole series is good. And it's closer to 1800 pages my young retarded friend.

[Anonymous No.2850938]

>>2850929
>the whole series is good

Confirmed for pleb.

[Anonymous No.2850957]

What you fail to realize is that most of you are discussing the quality of ASOFAI within the rotten fantasy genre. Within this awful sub thing, it's already really meh, but if you zoom out and contemplate the whole nebula of books in existence, it's really terrible.

Just looking at the ultra basic quartet of Plot/Characters/Style/Theme (I know it means nothing now, but it's a good start to judge a book IMHO), you can see that it fails at 3 and is nowhere near others in the characters field (even if Jaime or Littlefinger are awesome, they are shonen guys, with basics dichotomies, they are not human, you can sum up everybody with 2 adjectives).

I liked the first 4 tomes (hated the 5th, but it's because I really hate Daenarys), but I liked it as I liked Avatar or One Piece, forgotten the instant I closed the books. It's not literature, it's only entertainment. And I know that I can find a better one, I'm just lazy, and it's nice to speak with your friends about a book.

>cont

[Anonymous No.2850959]

>>2850957

The worst thing is that I'm a writer (I'm not writing in English, I'm a non native speaker) and when I stand back and think about Martin, I can see that he created nice characters in a ridiculous plot (every books end with an unexpected savior for example) and that now he really doesn't know what he's doing. He makes one of the worst mistake, the plot drives the characters where it should be the contrary. He doesn't know what to do with Arya and Bran, so he just stopped writing about them (well, 30 pages a tome), Daenarys is just plain retarded because she needs to act that way for his plot to work, Tyrion is now an emo dark trololol (" Ho Tyrion, you're so mischievousness ", " Yeah, it's because I killed my father lol ".) It's a puppet theater, like every success in this past 20 years, characters exists only for the plot.

If you read The Book Of The New Sun, for example, you can see that Wolfe had this right, the hero takes decisions that make the plot, he's the center of his universe, you can't see the wire and the puppet master behind him.

This thinking made me hate myself for liking the books, he hooked me on an emotional level where my brain was not here. And now I hate me for having made this analysis, because I can't like the books anymore.


There are good fantasy books, those written by guys who said " Hey, let's write a book ", not by retard who said " Hey, let's write fantasy ". Genre should be librarian and bookshop problem.

[Anonymous No.2850961]

>>2850957
>Just looking at the ultra basic quartet of Plot/Characters/Style/Theme (I know it means nothing now, but it's a good start to judge a book IMHO)
You disgust me.

[Anonymous No.2851102]

>>2850959

>Thinks Dying Earth Apollo is worthwhile drenched in constant archaic jism.

You keep on with your obsession champ.

[Anonymous No.2851110]

>>2850959
>every books end with an unexpected savior for example

What

[Anonymous No.2851239]

>>2848803
He's popular in France. And he writes science-fiction. You won't get /lit/ cred with that.

[Anonymous No.2851294]

I know it's not particularly deep, original or well written but I love this saga.

I'm so much invested in some of the characters, they could be eating lemon cake while playing cyvasse for two books and I'd still read them twice.

[Anonymous No.2851302]

I enjoyed the first 3 books, but A feast for crows is a slog of a read and really exposes the limitations of GRRM's POV style.

LOTR may appear clichéd, but at least you never got the impression you were being fed entirely meaningless events in order to fill a gap in the story's timeline.

[Anonymous No.2851337]

I agree, its shit, the cutoffs for the books are arbitrary , no climaxes, nothing really ever happens. This isnt literature, this is just some cheap as shit at the same level as Tom Clancy, people make the mistake of assuming its literature because the books are big. Have read every book, 2 invested to stop, havent gained anything out of it

[Anonymous No.2851386]

Hey there guys. I'm a non-4chaner. I just wanted to say that this is the funniest thread I've seen during this little glimpse at 4chan I'm taking. Seriously it's funnier than that shit in /d/ with the jet plane women who get fucked by the pilots. You guys are rich, never change.

[Anonymous No.2851395]

>>2849351
>>2849351

>prose literature

I'm new to lit ans /lit/

what, may I ask, is prose literature?

please dont kill me; i want to learn...

[OP No.2851426]

Lol people like these shitty books?

Enjoy your 5th-grade reading level.

[Anonymous No.2851436]

>>2849230
The Black Company by Glen Cook.
I think most fantasy is pretty bad, but I like the first 3 in that series (never read the others).

[Anonymous No.2851442]

>>2851436
The Books of the South are much, much better than the initial trilogy (in my opinion).

Soldiers Live especially. That book broke my heart, man.

[Anonymous No.2851451]

>>2851442
Yeah? I talked to two people who said the books weren't as good without Croaker.
At what point does he make his exit?

[Anonymous No.2851465]

> Wheel of Time

Haha.
> straightens dress
> feels anxious about author-self-insert's wiener

[Anonymous No.2851472]

>>2848721
Are you me, OP?

A lot of people are just going to say "You don't like it 'cause it's popular" but that's bullshit. I don't like it because it's not good. Just like how Twilight was crap, and yet it's still popular. Twilight is shit book series for girls, and ASoIaF is shit series for boys.

[Anonymous No.2851481]

ASoIaF, or whatever, let's just call it Jumble of Letters, is written poorly, has boring characters, a relatively shitty plot, but a cool world.

Anyone claiming that this is the new-age LoTR deserves to fucking die.

[Anonymous No.2851483]

>>2851451
He doesn't. You just have different people serving as Annalists. Croaker is in every book, and is a major character. Hell, he is the most important character. An overview:

>4. Shadow Games
Narrated by Croaker.

>5. Dreams of Steel
Narrated by another major character. It is very colored by this character's particular personality.

>6. Bleak Seasons
Narrated by a (till then) minor character. Has some shitty time-skipping gimmick, and the new narrator sort of... focuses on himself a lot (which is pointed out and criticized by other characters). The worst in the series, but by no means awful.

>7. She Is The Darkness
Narrated by the same guy as 6., but without the gimmick.

>8. Water Sleeps
Narrated by a new previously minor character. Much better than 6 and 7.

>9. Soldiers Live
Narrated by Croaker.

Also, there is the spin-off, The Silver Spike (published between 4 and 6), which is narrated by the soldier case from The White Rose and wraps up the loose ends in the North.

Anyway, the appeal of the Books of the South is that the story they tell is more contained. It's the story of a big-ass war primarily taking place in a single (enormous) country, heavily inspired by Indian mythology and culture. Also, Cook only gets better with age. Oh, and I must make this very clear: Soldiers Live is a very touching work.

[Anonymous No.2851491]

>>2851483
Thank you very very much for your input.
I was always scared to read past The White Rose for fear of tainting a trilogy that I liked. Based on what you said, I now have 7 new books to read by one of my favorite fantasy authors.
Have yourself a great day anon.

[Anonymous No.2851499]

>>2851491
Likewise, and happy reading!

[Anonymous No.2851629]

I love how OP is trying to be edgy by hating on ASoIaF but idolizes LOTR. Clearly your taste is much too sophisticated and obscure for the likes of us.

[Anonymous No.2851641]

Not to be annoying, but could someone do me a favor and answer this >>2851395

Thanks

[Anonymous No.2851643]

Don't worry OP. I've never once said this was the new LotR. LotR isn't half as good.

[Anonymous No.2851646]

>>2851641
Prose means it isn't in verse form. Basically, it isn't poetry.

[Anonymous No.2851659]

>>2851646

Wait...I have heard people talk about, for example, McCarthy's Prose and have compared it to poetry...

Not trolling, I'm just that new (or stupid).

[Anonymous No.2851666]

ITT: Pseudo-intellectual teenagers with their heads a mile up their own asses. Then again that's pretty much this whole board.

[Anonymous No.2851662]

>>2851659
Prose can be poetic in feel, but unless it is written in measured lines, it isn't poetry proper. "Moby Dick" is also highly poetic, but it's prose just the same.

[Anonymous No.2851668]

>>2851659
Some people use the meaningless hyperbole "it's like poetry!" to mean that it's deep and meaningful, as though poetry contains some innate quality that's intrinsically better than other forms of media. That may be the sort of thing you've heard. In the case of Cormack McCarthy, the comparison could actually apply because he uses unconventional grammar and composition, and so it is, by definition not traditional prose but a sort of free form poetry.

[Anonymous No.2851677]

>>2851662
>>2851668

Ah, ok. Thank you.