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/lit/ - Literature

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2840713 No.2840713 [Reply] [Original]

What are your thoughts on first person female protags being written men?

Does it every really work? Is this the hardest POV for a man to attempt?

>> No.2840734

No.

>> No.2840732

http://www.onfiction.ca/2011/02/actor-and-observed-man-and-woman.html

Women are the Other. They don't even see *themselves* as agents. Good luck overcoming that.

>> No.2840735

>>2840734
That's no in response to

>Is this the hardest POV for a man to attempt?

If you can't write a woman, then you certainly can't write a man

>> No.2840739

>>2840732
First person has nothing to do with agency and everything to do with character voice. Have you ever heard a woman tell a story about something that happened to her? There you go.

>> No.2840740

I think certain men could do it well - the mystique of the female brain is overestimated, they are driven by as basic impulses and needs as a man - you just need one empathetic enough to cut through the bullshit, and sexually attractive enough to have experienced the simpleness of their brain.

>> No.2840741

>>2840739
Have you ever cared about a story told by a woman about something that happened to her? There you go.

>> No.2840742

No more difficult than writing from the POV of a child.

>> No.2840754

>>2840741
I have, but you're probably right in general. The inherent sexism is unfortunate

>> No.2840761

>>2840754
it's not sexism

not everything is patriarchy's fault

>> No.2840771

>>2840732
>Bortolussi et al. selected four passages, each of about 1000 words, from contemporary novels, two with male protagonists, and two with female protagonists.

I'd like to know what these novels were. I'd imagine that the protagonists had stereotypically male or female personalities. If that is the case, then the problem is with the writers: they're the ones (perhaps unconsciously) making the men and their stories more interesting.

>> No.2840772

This Norwegian documentary series about how sociologists, gender studies and queer theory academics have ignored the role of biology in influencing behavior was pretty good. Episode subject matter should be obvious based on the URL:

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/brainwashing-norway-part-1-gender-equality
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/brainwashing-norway-part-ii-parental-effect
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/brainwashing-norway-part-iii-gaystraight
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/brainwashing-norway-part-iv-violence
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/brainwashing-norway-part-v-sex
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/brainwashing-norway-part-vi-race
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/brainwashing-norway-part-vii-nature-vs-nurture

>> No.2840777

>>2840772

Sorry, but I don't trust and production that sincerely uses the term "brainwashing".

>> No.2840783

Writing a woman is no different than writing a man

>> No.2840786

>>2840777
It's a tongue-in-cheek title. The guy is Norway's most famous comedian (who has a Master's degree in sociology).

>> No.2840792

>>2840786
>dfw when Norway has even worse comedians than the Germans

>> No.2840797

>>2840792
Yes, Norwegian comedians in general are fucking horrendous. This guy (Harald Eia) is a genius, though. Too bad his work defies translation.

>> No.2840796

>>2840772
For the love of god, this guy?
He's living in the shadow of Atle.

>> No.2840798

never let me go "worked" well enough for me

>> No.2840803

>>2840797
Puns defy translation.

>> No.2840805

>>2840761
Gender stereotypes are indeed the fault of the patriarchy.

>> No.2840816

>>2840805
0/10

>> No.2840820

>>2840772
So the whole things a satire? What was the point of posting this again?

>> No.2840821

>>2840816
>can only disagree by scoring out of 10
What a strange thing to do.

>> No.2840822

>>2840820
It's not a satire. It's the passion project of a comedian who used his popularity to get funding for a science documentary.

>> No.2840823

>>2840821
0/6

>> No.2840824

I'm reading Pamela now (which a lot of people say is the 18th century version of 50 Shades of Gray) and it's just unbearable. I know the author's trying to really make the point that Pamela is subservient etc. but it's 500 pages long and just repeats itself over and over.

I just finished reading Roxana by Daniel Defoe and that was slightly better than this, perhaps because it was shorter.

>> No.2840827

>>2840805
>>2840816

But he's right. Just because we're male doesn't mean we also don't have the basic urge to defy the father.

>> No.2840831

>>2840824
>(which a lot of people say is the 18th century version of 50 Shades of Gray)

who the fuck says this.

>> No.2840835

>>2840827
I've never wanted to defy my father.

>> No.2840838

I mean, the fact that he's conservative and I'm a communist has nothing to do with it.

>> No.2840841

>>2840822
So is it "the passion project of a comedian" or a "science documentary"?

>> No.2840843

>>2840831
http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/culture/2012/07/Forget-Mummy-Porn-18th-century-Fifty-Shades-Grey

>> No.2840848

>>2840841
Both.

>> No.2840862

>>2840835

Don't be so literal.

>> No.2840867

>>2840862
But it's funny

>> No.2840870

>>2840848
So you think passion projects and comedians are science in Norway?

Country is fucked.

>> No.2840887

>>2840870
>confusing science documentaries with actual science
you're fucking retarded, guy

>> No.2840999

>>2840887
Are you saying science documentaries have nothing to do with actual science?

If you're saying that documentary has no scientific value, I don't see why you feel it is something to "educate yourself" by.

>> No.2841130

>part 1, 26 minutes in
>evo-pysch professor

I don't know, guys...

>> No.2841158
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2841158

>some dimwit sticks his dick in a blender and makes a documentary
>"BUT IT MUST BE SCIENCE GUYS"

I don't think you actually know how this works

>> No.2841160

why the fuck would you have a female protagonist?

Are you writing a fantasy with dragons or a romance novel?

No man wants to read a female protagonist.

>> No.2841170

No, I constantly roleplay as a female online.

>> No.2841228

>>2841130
>scared off by evo pysch
you probably need to watch the rest then
(I haven't even seen this shit myself)

>> No.2841230

>>2841160
I'm a man.

My favourite book is Jane Eyre.

No, I am not a homosexual.

>> No.2841245

>>2841170
this. its not hard.

>> No.2841270

>Is this the hardest PoV for a man to attempt
Out of ALL of the other options besides "woman"?

Sure. The more a character is like yourself, the easier it is to inject yourself into them in your writing. Therefor, the greater the difference, the greater the challenge.

That being said, doing so as an alien or a cow would be much harder than just writing a woman. Also
>Think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.

>> No.2841386

Comedian, overweight, balding red hair, black shirt, two daughters...

This guy's the Norwegian Louis CK. Except less funny.

>> No.2841510

>>2840713
Fuck should I know, I'm a man. But women seem to appreciate women written by men more than we men appreciate men written by women for some reason. It's a mystery but that's how it is.

>> No.2841519

the fault in our stars by John green. its a good book.

>> No.2841525

>>2841386
"not funny" always seems to be the criticism people use when they don't like the point of the satire, and want to whine about it.

If Louis C.K. did a serious documentary attempting to expose something, would you ignore the points brought up because he isn't being as funny as usual? Did you hate Mark Twain because you weren't rolling on the floor laughing at his books?

>> No.2841573

>>2841525
He's not dismissing the documentary or the maker. He's simply stating that he thinks the guy isn't funny.

>> No.2841615

I pretty much write just like I would for a male protagonist. It helps that I don't write about romance beyond the initial stages. Fuck realism, this is literature. In the end, we're all human anyway.

>> No.2841621
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2841621

>>2841160
>No man wants to read a female protagonist.
Are you fucking serious?

>> No.2841637

>>2841519

Seconded. John Green's a great author.

Just read through Looking for Alaska and Paper Towns, actually.

>> No.2841694

>>2841170
>No, I constantly roleplay as a female online.
I do too...

Is that bad??

>> No.2842304

Interesting. When I think back over the hundreds of books I've read, I can't really think of any written by a man that uses a female character in first person.

Perhaps they just don't market well.

>> No.2842324

>>2842304
Women are the subordinate gender so it doesn't make sense to ever have them as a protagonist.

>> No.2842357

Jim Harrison has done a nice job of it.

>> No.2842429

sure