What motivates the vocal segment of /lit/ which is opposed to anyone in the West enjoying Eastern literature or finding meaning in Eastern philosophy?

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Anonymous Sat Jul 21 19:58:12 2012 No.2830094 [DELETED]

What motivates the vocal segment of /lit/ which is opposed to anyone in the West enjoying Eastern literature or finding meaning in Eastern philosophy?

Anonymous Sat Jul 21 19:59:13 2012 No.2830095

>>2830094
I doubt anyone has ever gone that far. I think it's a skepticism that's rooted in seeing people like Deepak Chopra and the like, and possibly have friends who called themselves "buddhists". I don't know enough about the subject to be offer any arguments either way though, so I shan't get in the way

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:02:12 2012 No.2830097 eastern lit is fine. I'd love to read some novels about the chinese cultural revolution. Novels about eastern 'philosophy' are equivalent to christian inspiration books, even if they are by Hesse

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:04:12 2012 No.2830101 >>2830095 I have a friend who calls herself Buddhist. She's attended a Buddhist temple for over five years. I don't know why I should think she's insincere.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:06:12 2012 No.2830108 File: 376 KB, 1884x1413, New_chocolate_milk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2830101 He was implying they >merely call themselves buddhists. Can you guys watch this for me?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:07:19 2012 No.2830109 >>2830101 If you're not Asian, you can't be a Buddhist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:08:18 2012 No.2830110 >>2830108 >now I want chocolate milk >I have no milk, chocolate syrup, or chocolate milk Dammit, anon. I'm going to go get some chocolate milk.

Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:09:18 2012 No.2830114

Western philosophy is more complicated and thus more superficially impressive. Children who know nothing of reality confuse the complexity of their misunderstandings with truth and find resonance in Western philosophy. Eastern philosophy is superior but far less impressive and far more difficult to understand as it is rooted in feeling and thus is exclusive to adolescents, especially those who live insular little lives in Western society and are constantly barraged by nonsense like Facebook and 4chan. All the little academics here enjoy the pedantry that Western abstractions of "truth" offer them--it's a role to play, an ego to inhabit, and a purpose to distract them. "Soon the why and the reason are gone, and all that matters is the feeling itself." - Frenchman, The Matrix

Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:16:20 2012 No.2830123

It's simply too different and people don't like different.

The common is to close your mind to this kind of stuff. I'm impressed /lit/ is actually into eastern literature at all.

The context and the language is so unusual to our heads, it's easy to make it sound like some faggot meaningless shit, but it's hard to treat it seriously. We've grown with a certain kind of parody for anything eastern. Monks dressed in blankets, martial artists being mocked by their "dance", obscure quotes that make no sense (based on koans, haikus, etc), anyway, people don't take it seriously until they go for it.

Too foreign.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:21:20 2012 No.2830129 >>2830109 That's stupid as hell.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:22:20 2012 No.2830131 >>2830129 Sorry. Gweilo eyes are shaped funny and ill suited to see the universe as it really is.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:23:20 2012 No.2830134 Leftards won't waste any opportunity to see racism in white people.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:24:20 2012 No.2830136 >>2830134 OP here. I didn't accuse anyone of being racist. I just asked what the motivation was.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:24:20 2012 No.2830137 >>2830134 That's racist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:26:21 2012 No.2830139 >>2830109 That shows a ridiculous amount of ignorance to what Buddha taught. I am surprised how often I see this argument, too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:27:21 2012 No.2830142 >>2830134 The fuck are you even talking about

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:28:21 2012 No.2830143 >>2830142 anon thinks op is saying /lit/ is racist for criticizing people who are interested in eastern shit.

Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:29:21 2012 No.2830145

>>2830136
No, that's the motivation. Leftard hero Edward Said wrote a book saying that if a white person is interested in Eastern culture, that's racist. Social justice warriors can cite this book as if it presents some kind of objective truth in their endless quest to find offense in everything white people do.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:31:21 2012 No.2830147 >>2830143 That's not what anon thinks, but thanks for participating.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:31:21 2012 No.2830148 >>2830145 No, he said Orientalism was heavily influenced by imperialism.

Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:32:21 2012 No.2830150

>>2830145
>if a white person is interested in Eastern culture, that's racist
Can you give me the quote? Maybe it makes more sense in context.

I can see the argument that weeaboos are racist because they romanticize Japanese culture and behave as if there are no problems in the everyday lives of Japanese people. But I would distinguish between a weeaboo (obnoxious anime fan who thinks the West is automatically inferior to Japan, which is perfect in every way) and someone who genuinely finds Japanese culture to be interesting, while recognizing that it's a culture with pros and cons like any other, and the people are not some kind of zoo exhibit but human beings who happen to live differently.

Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:34:21 2012 No.2830153
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>>2830150
>I can see the argument that weeaboos are racist because they romanticize Japanese culture and behave as if there are no problems in the everyday lives of Japanese people. But I would distinguish between a weeaboo (obnoxious anime fan who thinks the West is automatically inferior to Japan, which is perfect in every way) and someone who genuinely finds Japanese culture to be interesting, while recognizing that it's a culture with pros and cons like any other, and the people are not some kind of zoo exhibit but human beings who happen to live differently.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:35:21 2012 No.2830155 >>2830150 >thinks we're talking about Japan

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:36:21 2012 No.2830157 >>2830155 No... was using an example because people who are obsessed with Japan are something basically everyone on 4chan has encountered at one point or another.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:51:23 2012 No.2830182 >>2830150 >postmodernism >making a distinction between two things that aren't binary opposites

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:53:23 2012 No.2830189 >>2830182 What's wrong with making a distinction between things that aren't binary opposites?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:55:23 2012 No.2830193 >>2830189 I don't know, but I can tell you the binary opposites are all false dichotomies.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 20:58:26 2012 No.2830203 >>2830094 butthurt

Anonymous Sat Jul 21 21:03:26 2012 No.2830217

Because you're obviously a punk ass bitch liar. Sorry, that's just what you are if you vocalize the meaning you find in Eastern Phil on 4chan. I'd call you a punk ass bitch liar if you did in irl too, but its far less likely to happen irl. You'd feel like an idiot for talking such bullshit, or you'd simply gain the approval of some other punk ass bitches. I say this because of the nature of eastern phil. I mean, did you really need a philosophy to tell you to simplify? And if you did, why does your aspie ass feel the need to talk about it like you discovered something not obvious? I'll tell ya why. Its cuz yer full of shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 21:04:26 2012 No.2830218 >>2830217 Oh you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 21:09:19 2012 No.2830225 >>2830218 ;)

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 03:47:38 2012 No.2830893 >>2830109 If you're not indian then you're not buddhist

Nicolas Cage !!4L3ydrPrJqa Sun Jul 22 04:00:54 2012 No.2830908

Taoism is to psychology as the ancient earth-air-fire-water theory is to chemistry. Past that, and its conjectures are just oldschool, begging-the-question-religion.
I used to have a friend who was a buddhist monk, and I asked him about the particulars of his religion. He told me a few details and I, after prodding, told him I thought his existential beliefs were wishful thinking, and that his beliefs about the 'soul' were just psychological humanism in different, and honestly less accessible, words. A few years later I heard he left his temple and took to plain clothes, studying psychology in another city.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 04:02:54 2012 No.2830909 Traditional feng shui (not Western feng shui, which is Californian hippy bullshit) is a pretty good, practical guide to living. >>2830908 Wow, look at this cunt patting his own back.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 04:17:58 2012 No.2830923 >>2830908 You're a cunt. I bet that guy wasn't even your friend, just a stranger you forced your opinions on.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 04:19:57 2012 No.2830924 >What motivates the vocal segment of /lit/... Being in high school.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 04:22:13 2012 No.2830928 >>2830908 I'm pretty sure you're not a friend of his.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 04:32:15 2012 No.2830940

>it's the equivalent of western med pros being doctrinaire about being indifferent/incurious about traditional medicine, medical anthropology, ethnobotanic basis (or empirical lack thereof). insert schopenhauer quote on the revolution in philosophy that'll be precipitated by widespread exposure to eastern thought systems. That, and so many Asian philosophers have western training (especially Japos), if only to keep abreast of eastern developments....

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 04:35:15 2012 No.2830947 >>2830114 this

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 04:39:15 2012 No.2830954 >>2830947 Sounds very hippy but s'true.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 04:40:15 2012 No.2830957 >>2830114 >implying complicated means better >implying complicated philosophies are truthful/meaningful

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 04:44:18 2012 No.2830966 >>2830957 ...Exactly the opposite of what that poster was trying to say? Can you read at all?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 05:39:07 2012 No.2831037 File: 28 KB, 400x280, 1281702769614.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] atman is brahman

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 06:12:43 2012 No.2831072

i'm an indian and was brought up a hindu and i still hold some hindu beliefs, is this the only type of hindu you accept, /lit/? because i myself would love to talk to westerners or chinese people or africans or mayans or whoever about my religion if they wanted and if they saw any meaning in it i'd just be happy for them... not saying eastern philosophy is some kind of 2deep4u but it deserves to be treated as as legitimate as western at least.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 08:33:12 2012 No.2831189 >>2830923 >>2830928 He started studying psychology. I don't necessarily see how getting someone to redirect their energy/efforts into something new is intrinsically a dick thing to do. If the guy had become an hero, that would be another thing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 10:12:37 2012 No.2831269 >>2831189 The point is that that stupid tripfag is taking credit for something that probably has nothing to do with him, and further gloating over it. Wow, so you influenced somebody's opinion! Big whoop! Shut the fuck up, Nicholas Cage!

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 10:14:36 2012 No.2831274 >>2831037 >implying Batman is Robin

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 14:15:56 2012 No.2831627 >>2831037 brAhman Abraham

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 15:25:33 2012 No.2831744 >>2830094 Any dislike that I have for adherents to the Eastern canon is rooted in people selecting the canon that translates the worst, and then not learning the language.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 15:35:33 2012 No.2831763 >>2831744 Yeah, I fucking despise all those people who never bothered to learn Sanskrit.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 15:38:35 2012 No.2831770

>>2831744
I'm extremely interested in Taoism and Zen Buddhism. I've read like a dozen translations of the Tao Te Ching. I intend to learn Chinese, but I don't know whether to learn Mandarin or Cantonese. I'm aware that they're written the same, but they're spoken differently.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 15:39:35 2012 No.2831774

>>2831744
Exactly. Too many people nowadays seem to throw around believing in Buddhist/Taoist beliefs, and yet not seriously adhering to the beliefs and not attemtping to read the texts in their original language. This is one major issue I have with the Beats generation and the current hippie/hipster movements. A translation, while nice, can lose some of the meaning of the original if not properly translated.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 15:41:35 2012 No.2831778

>>2831770
The Chinese that would be taught today is Mandarin. However, the language during the time of the Daodejing is very different from the modern language. Try to find some books on Classical Chinese to understand that text.

Also, I would recommend reading Zhuangzi--another major Daoist writer

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 15:47:35 2012 No.2831785
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What I fucking hate about any religious position is just that.

Either you are a stupid regular christian/buddhist/whatever with a bunch of dogmatic shit in your head, praying for idols, filled with superstition and faggotry.

Or you are knowledgeable about it and actually know what it means to be christian/buddhist/whatever. But then everytime someone says "hey, how was that christmas going, you are christian right?" you say "TECHNICALLY, that's not the date of the birth of Christ because yadda yadda yadda..." and you look like an asshole even though you may be right.

With eastern thinking that's even more shocking. People have a shallow idea on buddhism, taoism, zen and they will think you are an idiot for shaving your head and bowing to a fat guy. But if you know your shit, you'll say "yeah, but that's not what it's about...." and look like a gigantic pain in the ass.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:05:46 2012 No.2831810
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>>2830114
Pretty much this. I think it annoys "the vocal segment of /lit/" when Westerners (most notably Americans) take interest in Eastern philosophy as means of escaping their "meaningless" and "superficial" consumerist lives (failing, I might add, to see the vast array of meaningful experiences and interactions that can be had in a consumerist culture, but I digress). Basically, they're using it as means of escaping and transcending Western culture and philosophy, which only adds to the influence of Western culture over the subject in question. Eastern philosophy becomes Westernized, and then you get New Age philosophy. I'm not decrying New Age beliefs. I'm saying people who follow them should be aware of the cultural context from which the ideas originally arouse in Asia, how fundamental they were in shaping them originally, how they are constantly being called into question at their points of origin, and how our own culture may distort these imported beliefs into something vastly different so that it may retain meaning to the Western subject.

I mean, the thought of a person of Asian heritage who considered themselves "New Age" would be utterly absurd to a western patron, but not many people question this. I do find it interesting how New Age philosophy pushes it's own metanarrative of human history, but I won't go into that. Just skim through this video, it's very interesting to analyze: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:10:48 2012 No.2831823

>>2831810
i think you're putting far too much thought into it

frankly, the real reason people on /lit/ are hesitant about Eastern literature / philosophy is because many people who are enthusiastic about it are idiotic and unbearable. they're mostly vacuous. and because those people are so terrible and so dumb about it, the idea of finding Eastern literature or philosophy meaningful becomes tarred by association, because so many people who claim to do so either do so in an idiotic way that people on /lit/ don't respect, and even if they don't, they're still annoying.

you may not think this is valid. but it is the single most significant reason for the phenomenon.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:12:48 2012 No.2831824 >>2831785 >"TECHNICALLY, that's not the date of the birth of Christ because yadda yadda yadda..." But you can know that without looking like an ass. It's called keeping your mouth shut.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:13:48 2012 No.2831826 >>2831785 That's the most ridiculous dichotomy I've ever heard.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:13:48 2012 No.2831827

Western though has a preocupation in leaving crumbs behind so that you can get where they got. Western philosophy is about explaining one's reasons to get to a conclusion.

Eastern philosophy just gives you the conclusion. They know, they have the enlightenment. But instead of teaching you martial arts, they are going to tell you to paint the fence. It makes sense, but you don't know it makes sense just yet. You have to trust them on it and that seems mystic to most people.

Eastern thinking assumes that good knowledge is earned, that you cannot teach, but others may learn. "Follow me if you want", but you can't just go and ask for the path because you won't understand, you'll refute it because you are not ready. There is a certain sacrifice in getting there.

Western thinking is the opposite, if one got there, then this one can explain how it happends, he can take you there himself and so he will talk about each step. Eastern thinking assumes some steps can't even be verbalized.

So one appears to be a fool to the other. One is talking too much, the other is being obscure.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:14:48 2012 No.2831829 File: 33 KB, 300x600, 1339561249194.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:15:48 2012 No.2831830 >>2831824 Yeah, I know. My thread was actually about religious debate more than anything, I should have said this. But if you just keep quiet people still think you are a creep.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:26:07 2012 No.2831854 >>2831830 My post*

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:41:09 2012 No.2831880 you aren't allowed to enjoy eastern literature or philosophy because you dont have little eyes

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:46:10 2012 No.2831907 >>2831827 >>2831827 fucking five star post.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:48:09 2012 No.2831913 >>2831907 >>2831827 >being unfamiliar with Socrates as a midwife.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:51:09 2012 No.2831925
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Maybe it's because Eastern Philosophy still thinks life isn't worth living and that we should continue meditating and pretending that we don't exist, while Western Philosophy does think that life is worth living, or ought to be worth living, and so has actually adapted to the modern age in trying to work out how we ought to live.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:53:09 2012 No.2831933 >>2831925 Said the child who knows nothing but likes to pretend otherwise for the sake of his ego.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:53:12 2012 No.2831938 File: 4 KB, 350x294, faceSb.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2831933

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:53:12 2012 No.2831939 >>2831925 That's like, nothing like Eastern Philosophy and Western philosophy at all.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:55:12 2012 No.2831943 >>2831913 Socrates was the man, bro. We are speaking in general, of course. Socrates should have influenced more. The stoics and the cynics are also out the norm as well.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:56:12 2012 No.2831947

>>2831827
>Eastern thinking assumes that good knowledge is earned, that you cannot teach, but others may learn. "Follow me if you want", but you can't just go and ask for the path because you won't understand, you'll refute it because you are not ready. There is a certain sacrifice in getting there.

But the exact same is true for Jesus Christ's philosophy, his "Way" or "Path".

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:58:12 2012 No.2831953 >>2831925 what the fuck are you talking about? which eastern philosophy says life isnt worth living?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:01:12 2012 No.2831960 >>2831953 Buddhism is all about Suffering and how Life is necessarily Suffering and that the only way to escape Suffering is to divorce ourselves from the ways and desires of Life and recede into ourselves to find tranquility in passivity.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:02:12 2012 No.2831964

>>2831947
Yes, but still people are trapped into "what Jesus meant" and "how to get to Christ".

Ancient times are a different context. You'll find Western and Eastern examples that don't match what I say. I'll give you that. But I think they come from a similar starting point and diverged on the matter more and more as the centuries went by.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:03:12 2012 No.2831971 >>2831960 but how does that say that life isnt worth living. im pretty sure there are hundreds of million people around the world that act normally yet still assume a buddhist identity

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:03:12 2012 No.2831972 >>2831964 >Yes, but still people are trapped into "what Jesus meant" and "how to get to Christ". Isn't that the same for Buddhism? What does Buddha mean and how do we get to Nirvana?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:07:12 2012 No.2831980 >>2831778 Awesome, thanks. I've read a bit of Zhuangzi. I'm not sure how good the translation was, though.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:08:12 2012 No.2831983

>>2831960
Buddhism acknowledges that suffering comes from desire.

Zen buddhism, for example, will have that these desires are just source of anxieties, expectations, clinging to a past (nostalgia) and that none of that is real life. We are not living real life when we are trapped in desire, but if you free yourself from that you are able to do things in a complete way, go with the flow, live. It's not about killing yourself mentally.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:08:12 2012 No.2831984

>>2831830
You can talk without feeling the need to correct people all the time. If they specifically say, "Hey, what's your opinion of Christmas?" you can be like "Technically Jesus was born in Spring, but it's awesome that people get together and share with one another anyway." And so on.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:09:13 2012 No.2831986

>>2831971
>yet still assume a buddhist identity

"Assume an identity"? How do you do that? Update your facebook and OkCupid profile to say that you're "a buddhist"?
Fucking, "assume an identity", what the hell does that mean? "Yes, I'm a millionaire dealer of firearms and other military weapons and I have sex with voluptuous women on a regular basis but I still 'identify' with Christ, a man who lived a life of poverty and renunciation of worldly cares".
"Assuming an identity" is worthless, it's a worthless bit of vanity, so you can convince yourself that you "believe in something" while living a life of immediate satisfaction and pleasure, or a "normal life", as you put it.

You can't "act normally and assume a buddhist identity", to become a buddhist means exactly that you are NOT NORMAL, because you have renounced all of the normal things that people care about in favour of a life of spiritual calm and what have you.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:13:14 2012 No.2832002

>>2831983
>go with the flow, live.

Lol, "go with the flow". This is what I mean when I said that Eastern Philosophy teaches that life is not worth living. Going with the flow means it's too much suffering to care about worldly things so instead bury your head in the sand and Live and Let Live, tell yourself that "justice is an illusion" so you can turn a blind eye to every injustice you see, and go with the flow.

This is why Christ's philosophy is better than Buddhism, because it teaches you to suffer for the cause rather than deny all causes in favour of a meagre "inner peace".

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:14:13 2012 No.2832005 >>2831986 >no true scotsman

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:16:13 2012 No.2832013 >>2832005 we're not talking about scotsman

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:16:13 2012 No.2832014

>>2831972
But the philosophy on not leaving the crumbs is still the same (unless you are talking about pop-phil. eastern books).

That is, they may even diverge on what Buddha meant, but they usually remain quiet on how they got to that conclusion. The Westerns will talk about it more "openly", they will challenge opposing opinions and so on.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:17:13 2012 No.2832019 wheres deep and edgy when you need him

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:18:13 2012 No.2832023 >>2832019 They say if you post his name 3 times, he is summoned...

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:18:13 2012 No.2832025

>>2832002
It's not that because it's too much suffering, it's just that you tell yourself you have a solution for the suffering, but you haven't. The solution will lead to more suffering, it's not like it will come to an end.

>tell yourself that "justice is an illusion" so you can turn a blind eye to every injustice you see, and go with the flow.
Tell yourself "justice is real" and you'll fight for something that will inevitably backfire.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:20:13 2012 No.2832033

>>2832025
>>2832025
> it's just that you tell yourself you have a solution for the suffering

But Western Philosophy doesn't give solutions to suffering, or that's not it's principal aim. Eastern Philosophy talks about Suffering, Western Philosophy talks about the Good.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:23:41 2012 No.2832039 >>2832033 Exactly. That's why it goes for the "what should we do?" first, while in Asia they start with "what is this all about?".

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:25:43 2012 No.2832044 >>2832039 Yep, which is why the West is Superior, because we are Men of Action while they are Men of Passivity. Hail Achilles.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:27:43 2012 No.2832049

Has there been much recent progress in eastern philosophy? I mean, is it continually developing new ideas and progressing to new understandings of whatever it's goals are?
As far as I know, it hasn't done any of this, and you're just stuck reading ancient literature that supposedly contains 'the truth', and just leave it at that.
In other words, it's just religion.
Western philosophy is still incredibly vibrant and progressive, and is constantly correcting itself to reach new understandings of it's projects.
Eastern philosophy is just old hat, and there's not much to talk about that hasn't been said already.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:29:43 2012 No.2832054 >>2832044 Men of action that don't know what's up.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:30:43 2012 No.2832057

>>2832002
im pretty sure buddhist want to solve the problem of suffering and not bury their head in the sand. Maybe you're thinking of Christianity by wishing for a god to save them? Also how is solving the problem of suffering in this life worse than solving the problem of suffering in the heaven?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:30:43 2012 No.2832059 >>2832049 See: >>2831827 on why it appears to be religion.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:31:43 2012 No.2832061 >>2832044 Because dying of a wound to the heel while on a murder spree over your dead boyfriend is the pinnacle of Western values

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:32:43 2012 No.2832064 >>2832033 so eastern philosophy has devised a practical means to solving the problem of solving while the western philosophy simply leaves that to god or nihilism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:33:44 2012 No.2832068 >>2832054 No one 'knows what's up'. That's just pretense. >This world, where much is to be done and little to be known.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:33:44 2012 No.2832069

>>2832049
I said that here: >>2831925
And people took offense to it

>>2832054
They do know what is up. Jupiter/Zeus represents Fate in all its cruelty. Prometheus is punished by Zeus because he gives humanity more than it was allotted by Fate. Basically, the Eastern approach to this is to accept Jupiter for he is, crouch to our Fate and dodge as much suffering as we can. Whereas the Greeks portrayed humanity as idealistic and faltering against Fate/Jupiter, and thus while they are ultimately punished by Fate and live tragic lives, at least they suffered for the Good, the Right Cause, which would be better than to just submit.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:34:43 2012 No.2832071

>>2832049
most of recent "western" philosophy revolves around borrowing eastern philosophy and renaming it as western. And as an age old saying goes, if its works without a problem, why try to fix it? Eastern philosophy already works nicely even in modern times, western philosophy is all over the place with no real truth. Each century the philosophy changes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:35:43 2012 No.2832075 >>2832071 >Eastern philosophy already works nicely even in modern times That's a bad thing.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:36:43 2012 No.2832077

>>2832068
Exactly, faggot.

Western thought believes you can't know what's up, but let's do stuff, maybe we can "progress".

Eastern thought believe you can't fix stuff because once you fix it, you created another problem, but at least you can see things for what they are and find a way to live them with its ups and downs.

I'm a Western man myself, I don't subscribe to the Eastern kind of life. I'm talking about the differences, not about what is better or what is worse, because THAT would be a huge pretense.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:36:43 2012 No.2832078

>>2832059

I don't see how that addresses what I said at all.
Eastern and western philosophy have different methods of instruction because they have different goals. That post is essentially nonsense, because it assumes something that's not true to begin with, and then delineates from a false premise.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:37:43 2012 No.2832080 >>2832075 >[citation needed]

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:37:43 2012 No.2832085 >>2832075 how so? its worked even 2500 years ago and still works without almost no change to its core philosophy 2500 years later. if anything modern string of science is making eastern philosophy claims stronger in western perspective

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:37:43 2012 No.2832087

>>2832077
>I'm a Western man myself
>. I'm talking about the differences, not about what is better or what is worse

So if the West is not better than the East, and the East is not the better than the West, then why are you a "Western Man". You must think the West is better in some way.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:38:43 2012 No.2832094 File: 18 KB, 373x280, 1340122294960.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2832080 >asking for citations on a value judgement How about proffering a criticism, or as there's not much to criticise, supporting why you think it's a good thing?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:39:43 2012 No.2832099 >>2832085 It's a bad thing because we can all now live docilely meditating in our bedrooms while injustices go on in the world and we do nothing to rectify them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:40:43 2012 No.2832103 >>2832099 >implying all buddhist mediate all day long without doing anything I still dont see why you're continuing to delude yourself into thinking buddhist meditate all day without any care in the world

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:40:43 2012 No.2832105

>>2832071

>most of recent "western" philosophy revolves around borrowing eastern philosophy and renaming it as western.

It might be true that there have been some comparisons between some strands of contemporary western philosophy, and ancient eastern thinkers, but to say that modern western philosophy is directly influenced in any major way by eastern philosophy is patently false.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:41:45 2012 No.2832114 >>2832103 Ok, Ok, I admit, that's not all they do. They also preach to others that they too should meditate all day without any care in the world.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:42:45 2012 No.2832115 >>2832105 so you're saying western philosophers are completely ignorant of the eastern civilization? how baseless and how stupid

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:42:45 2012 No.2832116

>>2832069
But you have a strong misconception around the position of Easterns. And the more back you go, the more you'll see how similar they are. It's not about "what the hell, nothing works, I'll just sit here". That's wrong...

>>2832087
Because, I'm from the West, I read more about the West, I don't have an Eastern philosophy kind of life, I'm in the middle of this since I was born. Why do you assume that one has a complete choice over this? I'm a Western man because it's part of me, not because it's any better or any worse. I can't waste my time defending myself as better than anyone, neither will I fall for self-pity.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:42:45 2012 No.2832122 >>2832114 0/19

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:43:45 2012 No.2832123 File: 16 KB, 400x300, 1268694484159.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Western is for children.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 17:43:45 2012 No.2832128 >>2832115 Show me where I said that.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 18:28:18 2012 No.2832297

>>2832128
you said modern western philosophy isnt influenced directly via eastern philosophy. which implies no interaction with eastern philosophy. when any interaction occurs theres a transfer of knowledge. if western philosophy didnt have any transfer of knowledge then it didnt have any interaction. interaction implies knowledge. no interaction implies no knowledge.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 19:01:29 2012 No.2832369

>>2832297

Since when are interaction and influence exactly the same thing? You're grasping for straws here. You really think that someone would actually imply that educated professors and academics in the west have no knowledge of the whole span of continents on the other side of the globe or the fact that the people inhabiting those hemispheres have brains capable of thought? How could you possibly derive something that retarded from reading anything?
Look, western philosophers to this day, when they write their major opuses, are alluding to and invoking and/or criticizing the work of other western philosophers. Many of them invite exploration of other cultures as a means to escape ethnocentrism and the latent influences of colonialism, but they went to western universities, were educated in the western tradition, and wrote either in the vocabulary of that tradition, or worked with neologisms to advocate different lines of inquiry. But they did not incorporate the vocabulary or philosophical concepts of eastern philosophy in their work, and were not influenced by the east in any major way.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 19:19:30 2012 No.2832411 >>2831810 >59 minutes In that time, I could click on the search box, type in some words, and watch an MIT lecture. I pity all the poor individuals who watched that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 19:23:30 2012 No.2832423 Just out of curiosity, why do you even need a "philosophy"? Why can't you just live your life the way you want without having to jump through ideological hoops?

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 19:44:39 2012 No.2832484

>>2832423

Most people do just that in their personal lives, but in order to logically organize politics, society, and whatnot, philosophy is helpful. Most people can get away without it, but most people can also get away without knowing calculus.
The problem is when people have firm political or sociological beliefs, and no education in logic or philosophy to back up their opinions with reason, but rather just spout talking points they hear on the news without any critical thought or analysis.
You really have no business having firm ideas if you haven't put the intellectual effort into earning them.

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 02:48:50 2012 No.2833377

>>2832423
um, because everyone has a personal philosophy whether they realise it or not, and because unearthing your own dogmas and analysing them can help you better yourself as a person.
also, there's been a serious dearth of alan watts in this discussion. he's a really good interpreter of eastern religion for a western audience imo (and i say this as an indian born into a strictly hindu household). anyone who wants to learn about eastern philosophy would do well to look him up, youtube has a lot of his stuff for starters.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 02:51:50 2012 No.2833383 >>2832423 also, in case the irony here is lost on you, what you describe is in itself a philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 02:59:27 2012 No.2833391 I mostly just hate the edgy degenerate liberals who want to find some philosophical justification for them doing nothing productive with their lives, and of course to fill the gaping void in their soul left by their atheism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 03:02:27 2012 No.2833395 >>2833391 oh, yes, so much this eastern philosophy is NOT the same as "nothing is real 420 lol"

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 03:32:29 2012 No.2833437

Eastern philosophy is a history of defeatism.

Look at Hinduism. Invading Indo-Aryans and indigenous Dravidians. They have different, contrary gods. Do they actually reconcile any of it? No, they build a new narrative. Everyone is right. Different manifestations, little personal gods.

That's the east. They barely believe their own bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 03:34:30 2012 No.2833440 >>2833437 >Different manifestations, little personal gods. >2012 >believing this is any different than Christianity >in 2012, godfuckit

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 03:41:29 2012 No.2833446 >>2833437 uhh. what. maybe you want to go read a book or something

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 03:46:29 2012 No.2833451 >>2833437 >parroting Nietzsche without knowing about the eastern philosphy

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:04:34 2012 No.2833485

>>2833437
>Eastern philosophy is a history of defeatism.
>Look at Hinduism. Invading Indo-Aryans and indigenous Dravidians. They have different, contrary gods. Do they actually reconcile any of it? No, they build a new narrative. Everyone is right. Different manifestations, little personal gods.

You make that sound as if the world is a complex and intricate world of networks in which everyone influences each other and everyone has to compensate. As if there is no single, dare I say 'grand', narrative or ideology that is always true and right.

HOW WEAK! GOD NR.1! AMERICA NR.1! U S A! U S A!

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:19:36 2012 No.2833506

>>2833440
I agree with you for the most part. That's certainly been true for the last couple hundred years, but it's been true of Eastern philosophy for thousands. Bullshit is bullshit, in any case.

>>2833446
Did, already. Ones about history. You should try it.

>>2833451
What the fuck are you on about? Throwing a name at the wall and seeing if it sticks? Pretender.

>>2833485
You have me pegged as some sort of Jesus-of-suburbia American, huh? No. You're missing the point. They were two distinct groups of people with contrary beliefs and instead of addressing it, they avoided it in the most passive way imaginable.

Don't get me wrong, I have no love for how the rest of the world dealt with the incompatibility of their various sky desserts, but at least they believed their shit enough to do something about it. They were nihilists before some westerner stole the term.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:23:35 2012 No.2833513 >>2833506 >Not murdering each other over religious bullshit >Somehow that isn't a good thing You so edgy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:25:35 2012 No.2833519 >>2833513 hes a christfag hes born to hate all the other non-christfags

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:25:35 2012 No.2833520 >>2833513 Lol hyperbole. Yes, war is bad. So is a grey-area culture without any interest in truth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:26:35 2012 No.2833522 >>2833519 I am an atheist.

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:28:35 2012 No.2833526

>>2833506
>You have me pegged as some sort of Jesus-of-suburbia American, huh? No. You're missing the point. They were two distinct groups of people with contrary beliefs and instead of addressing it, they avoided it in the most passive way imaginable.

How is creating a new narrative in any way shape or form being passive? It is the most forward, creative, modern thing they could do. Passive is sticking to your own beliefs and never having them challenged or changed out of fear or ease.

All religions share the same basic features and teachings. I have much more respect for those who look at what they have in common, rather than those who argue about whether their prophet was called Jesus or Mohammed and start crusades and/or terrorist acts over it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:28:35 2012 No.2833527 >>2833520 >Implying Christians are interested in the truth You're hilarious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:32:38 2012 No.2833544 West means Americas, Africa and non Warsaw pact Europe, right?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:33:38 2012 No.2833548 >>2833544 West means all of christendom

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:34:38 2012 No.2833551 >>2833544 Not Africa. That's just African literature. I'm guessing he means Northern American and West-European literature only (maybe including Latin American literature).

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:36:38 2012 No.2833562 >>2833522 a former christfag same shit

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:37:38 2012 No.2833564 >>2833522 atheist isnt a philosophical stance

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:39:38 2012 No.2833570

>>2833526
Practically, I agree with you. I'm glad Buddhism and Hinduism haven't wracked up the same sort of death tolls as all the Noahbite shit. That's not what's being discussed, however.

Eastern philosophies aren't worth considering because they are interested, at best, in practical outcomes, historically, not in "what is".

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:41:38 2012 No.2833572 >>2833527 Some of them were. The Catholic church was responsible for a great deal of starter sciences. And guess what? People died for that as well.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:41:38 2012 No.2833574 >>2833564 No, but I was accused of being a "christfag". Hard to be that without a god belief. Reading comprehension hard.

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:42:38 2012 No.2833576

>>2833570
>I'm glad Buddhism and Hinduism haven't wracked up the same sort of death tolls as all the Noahbite shit

hahaha oh wow these liberals.

Hurr i took european history in class, this means no other history exists!

It's almost as if you think war only existed in europe and was exported by these "imperialists"

>>2833572
You have a source on the idea that the christians/Church killed people for work in natural philosophy or science?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:43:38 2012 No.2833577 >>2833562 Bzzt, try again.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:43:38 2012 No.2833578 >>2833570 Western philosophies are most often secretly utilitarian too, but they're a lot less honest about it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:46:39 2012 No.2833583 >>2833576 Strawmen are shameful. You are smarter than that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:48:39 2012 No.2833587 >>2833583 No he isn't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:48:39 2012 No.2833589 >>2833578 Absolutely! I just don't know why a denial of such a overtly changing culture/philosophy is difficult.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:48:39 2012 No.2833590 >>2833576 They killed Giordano Bruno.

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:53:39 2012 No.2833602

>>2833590
You need to understand that hindsight is 20/20.

Back in this time, there was no way to PROVE many of their claims, that took later with better telescopes. So you have one case where the church can be seen as "wrong" in hindsight, however what about all the times they were right?

And of course, all they wanted was for him to stop preaching his heresy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:54:40 2012 No.2833607 >>2833602 Your devil's advocate is too strong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 04:55:40 2012 No.2833609 >>2833602 >Back in this time, there was no way to PROVE many of their claims, that took later with better telescopes. That wasn't the issue at all. The easiest source to show this is Hume's On Religion.

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 05:07:42 2012 No.2833645

>>2833609
The church had promoted empirical study of the world for a thousand years, this did not at all change with the helicentric model.

It was a political and ideological struggle, nothing to do with this modern fantasy of evil closeminded religious bigots.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 05:13:42 2012 No.2833669 >>2833645 How do you know that space isn't composed of entirely different matter? They had to show that it wasn't aether up there, it was matter like we have here on Earth, even though it moved funny.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 05:14:42 2012 No.2833675 >>2833669 Except we now know that space IS filled with a seething aether.......

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 05:16:42 2012 No.2833681 >>2833675 No it isn't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 05:20:45 2012 No.2833691 >>2833681 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_production

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 05:23:45 2012 No.2833696 >>2833691 That's not aether. Also, that happens everywhere.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 05:25:45 2012 No.2833703 >>2833696 its aether man

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 05:29:45 2012 No.2833705 >>2833703 You're on aether.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 05:31:45 2012 No.2833707 >>2833705 you can't smoke aether

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 05:38:47 2012 No.2833718 >>2833707 Straight edge punk, telling me what to do...

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 07:20:00 2012 No.2833848

>>2833506
as a hindu and a dravidian who is aware of my cultural heritage let me tell you something, the dravidians really did get the short end of the stick and it was nothing like the 'passive' takeover you describe. maybe some elements of the dravidian religion were incorporated into hinduism (rudra became shiva etc) but that sort of syncretism has been a feature of religion for all human history. please don't think the 'east' is fundamentally different from the 'west', we did war and oppression and assimilation in exactly the same way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 07:22:59 2012 No.2833854 >>2833522 modern western atheism has as its basis a very protestant metaphysics. it's qualitatively different from atheism in buddhist or muslim or hindu cultures. so when someone accuses you of being a cultural christian don't deny it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 15:02:51 2012 No.2834444 your wrong

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 15:04:24 2012 No.2834446 File: 4 KB, 104x150, 02_Pyrrho_1297869229.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I like my eastern philosophy to be western

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 15:27:29 2012 No.2834502 File: 1.93 MB, 235x240, 1342017646188.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2834446 Pyrro is a boss.

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 15:41:33 2012 No.2834537

Damn, most of you are taking the garbage you are spouting quite seriously.

It's because of, as some people have said earlier in the thread, how annoying a lot of people who are 'interested' in it are, you know, the type who read a little bit of Hesse and think they have some understanding of Buddhism because of it. They talk shit without knowing what they are talking about, much like most of the people ITT, on both sides of the argument.

Secondly, and probably most importantly (this doesn't only answer OPs question but almost any complaint made against lit) most people on lit are retarded or immature, in both cases, antagonism results. If you need proof, keep a tally of how many ebook vs real book threads, fifty shades of gray threads and adv/r9k/mu/pol threads get more than 100 posts.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 17:26:56 2012 No.2834817 >>2834537 That's fair. That's very fair.

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 18:00:01 2012 No.2834954
File: 4 KB, 106x128, zapp_brannigan.thumbnail.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What's interesting is everyone trying to do eastern v western and it's literally just a bunch of massive over-generalizations.

A bunch of dilettante mental masturbation, /lit/osophy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 06:06:15 2012 No.2836772 >>2834954 whoa, that position sure is superior to all others ITT. nice

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/lit/ - Literature