/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.2828455]

"Existential nihilism is the philosophical theory that life has no intrinsic meaning or value."

>Who's life? 'Life' as a single human life or humanity in general? Both?

1) If we talk about the Universe and humanity. As far as we know or can prove, there is no one defined meaning set by the universe (be nice, get to heaven (christianity, kind a vague and ridiculous) - but if that were true, it would be considered as 'meaning', right?) Anyways, as the universe is not conscious and cannot assign meaning, it won't matter if humanity dies or lives, or whatever the fuck we do. So no meaning from its standpoint.

2) However, how can you call individual actions meaningless? Lets say I helped to design the first atomic bomb (could ofc be something smaller of significance, but for the sake of an example). Now how is that meaningless? Wouldn't it not matter if I had helped do design it? It would - there would be a different outcome if I weren't there. With every action you create meaning as you change the outcome of millions of events. How is making a difference not meaning? It doesn't matter if I make a difference?

It doesn't on one level (cosmic) and it does on another (human). From a personal level it does make a difference if I were to travel the world or not. The universe is indifferent to my actions as it's not conscious. It is of meaning to me to see the world - how can you state otherwise?

Am I wrong with my reasoning somewhere? If not, why isn't this view 'proved' by logic and analytic philosophy?

[Anonymous No.2828458]

What 'meaning' does you designing the atomic bomb have? You're inventing that meaning

[Anonymous No.2828462]

>>2828458

Yes, I do invent/give it meaning. The act of making a bomb and changing the course of history has no inherent meaning for the Universe. Since it cannot think or give meaning. Each individual can however create meaning as you say. How is that meaning not 'real'/'legit'?

[Anonymous No.2828466]

You giving it meaning means only that it means something to you, kna mean?

[Anonymous No.2828477]

>>2828466

But nihilism rejects that any meaning is possible. I get that things or actions have no inherent meaning. Is that meaning I give fake? How come? The meanings I give as are real as my thoughts.


Determinism kinda ruins the party though. Always. Do nihilists rely on determinism? That would make sense. Everything is an illusion in that case, even my meaning. (I subscribe to hard determnism btw).

[Anonymous No.2828478]

>>2828455
You're being sort of existentialist now, saying that people can create meaning of themselves for themselves.

But individual actions can very well be meaningless from a nihilist perspective, since life including everything in it is meaningless. One could say you are fooling yourself with your temporary and illusionary idea of meaning. I'd say they are mostly right, since thinking people usually have their sense of meaning destructed again in a short time, and often by themselves. A sense of meaning might very well be merely a psychological coping mechanism and nothing else. A person's sense of meaning isn't necessarily meaningful.

Making a difference has no meaning because there is no reason that "making a difference" is somehow relevant to anything. An exploding vulcano probably makes more of a difference than your average person, but that wouldn't make it's activity meaningful. Being concious doesn't make things necessarily meaningful either. You could just as well be viewed as a complicated thermostat gone wild.

[Anonymous No.2828519]

>>2828478

Good post,

>there is no reason that "making a difference" is somehow relevant to anything

but isn't it relevant to humans? Doesn't that count?

If conscious will can stop a supervolcano form exploding (implying we could) - isn't that meaningful to us? As we save ourselves from death. It is of meaning and significance to us.

[Anonymous No.2828522]

>>2828462

You seem to me to be somehow equating the term 'meaning' with the term 'effect'.
Changing the course of history is an effect of creating the bomb, but would not have any intrinsic meaning that I can see. Any meaning you choose to assign to it would be arbitrary.

[Anonymous No.2828549]

1/2

>>2828519
It doesn't really count as far as I'm concerned. Sure, most people have an urge not to die. But that urge in itself isn't necessarily rational.

How is a bunch of people stopping a supervulcano from exploding more meaningful than little fish dashing away when you put your foot in the water? There is activity, there are beings that rush about and try to evade treats. But this is merely an observed tendency in lifeforms, just like rolling downhill is observed in clumps of dense matter.

We have preferences and urges and sometimes try to rationalise and vocalise them, but that doesn't make those preferences and urges necessarily meaningful.

It all depends on perceptive I guess. If you say "I find meaning in this and therefore it is so for me" than there's really nobody that can ultimately disprove this, but an edgy existential nihilist may think something along the lines of "look at that monkey who tries to make sense of his feverish cerebral noise thinking that it's something profound instead of the by-product of his main survival mechanism".

[Anonymous No.2828552]

2/2

Ultimately, personal meaning is nothing more than a personal value judgement, so it's quite an non-issue I'd say. If you proclaim you like chocolate ice cream, that's really all there is to it. The same goes for ascribing meaning to your life I guess. The problem starts where people justify their liking something, that's probably where nihilists and rationalists get mad. If you say "I just like the taste of it" concerning the ice cream, no one will blame you for it. If you start making up arbitrary systems for it, people might call you out in it. So saying you value and enjoy life is perfectly fine, but using faulty rationalisations to make this up might make things difficult and insincere.

I myself like the idea of the jolly nihilist. A rakish figure who enjoys the void, so to speak. Living life without falling for the urge to systematize falsely and still love it for what it is. Sort of a Nietzschean amor fati without trying to get past nihilism, but making your home in the abyss. Which in turn sounds much like gutsy zen buddhism, I guess.

[Anonymous No.2828558]

>>2828455
>Who's life?

I don't know. Who is life? You tell me.

[Anonymous No.2828564]

>>2828558
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

[Anonymous No.2828686]

bmp fr nthng