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/lit/ - Literature

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2765288 No.2765288 [Reply] [Original]

Does Sartre's existentialism stand without free will?

>> No.2765290

>>2765288
If a dilettante tries to talk existentialism in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does /lit/ care?

>> No.2765302

>>2765290
Why discredit existentialism? I feel like it's a legitimate question for a literature board. Sartre wrote fiction, plays, and philosophical works. My question is about /lit/'s stance on the validity of his arguments for free will.

>> No.2765306

>>2765288
>>2765290
Sorry OP, no one on /lit/ actually reads books, we just talk pretentiously around them

>> No.2765309

>>2765302
Because I had a bad day.

>> No.2765313

Without free will the concept of existentialism really wouldn't exist. At least not the ``version'' Sartre writes about.

>> No.2765325

>>2765309
>bad day
>fuck that philosophical school of thought

No, responsibility depends on free will, I think his argument was something along the lines of, "Conciousness only experiences the world, it is not the world itself, thus escapes determinism" So I don't agree with his dualism

>> No.2765387

Dem googly eyes

>> No.2765393

>>2765325
I'm a girl. (by the way) It's to be expected.

>> No.2765401

It depends, do we know we are determined or not?

The thing about Existentialism is that it's very personal. If I find a machine that completely determines my life, I would not be Existential. If we're determined, but no one really knows and it hasn't been proven yet, then we have to live under the assumption that we hold the reigns to our own lives.

>> No.2765756

also you've got to think that it's basically impossible for human mind to actually resolve this question, so I guess existentialism stands in the sense that you still have to assume the consequences of your choices event if you chose to believe that we are controlled (there's always going to be some sort of doubt about whether or not it's the right thing), and you still have to act accordingly to your choices, even if unconsciously it really isn't a choice. at least that's the way I see it.

>> No.2765890

>sartre's philosophy
>no free will
what the fuck are you saying?

>> No.2765916

>>2765890
He's asking if Sartre's philosophy would still stand if there were no such thing as free will.

>> No.2765929

No.

>> No.2765994

>>2765916

Any moron who read even just the blurbs on the back of any random Sartre book could find the answer out.

Protip: It's no.

>> No.2766042
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2766042

>> No.2766050

>>2765302
from what i understood of his explanation in being and nothingness (which wasn't much), free will exists as part of the consciousness because it is nothing. maybe. wasn't too clear on it. never want back to revisit it because i'm lazy.

>> No.2766074

>nihilistic determinists
just another day on /lit/ with you boring (and wrong) "philosophers"

>> No.2766090

>>2766074
Everyday with this fucking wrongfag.

>> No.2766098

>>2766090
hey kid why you like being so wrong?

>> No.2766127

>>2766050
thats pretty much it. concsiousness isnt in the real world according to sartre, and is therefore nothing at the core of it. this allows for the possibility of free will.

i think he's right. but the substrate of consciousness, the brain (agree or not now, but itll be all but utterly proven in a few decades, you just wait) does exist in reality. hence it must be determined.

thus we find a kind of compatiblism...we are predetermined to act as though we had free will, and this is no different effectively than actually having free will.

>> No.2766193

>>2766127
But we do have free will.

what do you know? science fan

>> No.2766304

>>2766098
>calling others kid
>believes in nihilistic deterministic world

>> No.2766312

I'll be nice about this... Sartre's whole point is that we do have absolute free-will, since there is no god or meaning to life (philo majors, I know this a basic summary, but it's /lit/, what do you want?) So, basically, your question doesn't make sense. It's like asking if we would have sunlight without the sun.

>> No.2766314

>>2765288
It stands without free will. As humans we have a restrict view, even without free will we wouldn't know what would come next, because there are too much things involved.

And passive nihilism is for bitches.

>> No.2766322

>>2766304
>>2766193
>>2766074

I bet you believe in casuality and pure free will, faget.
Yes, because thinking that casuality somehow pops out from nowhere is totally legit.

inb4 quantum mechanics, even quantum particles have laws involved. And pure "chaos" does not exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
>inb4 mad

>> No.2766439

Sartre's a phenomenologist; in our being we find ourselves to be completely free, and abandoned into a contingent body which defines our facticity. and that's all that matters. we are at the core a "nothingness" not because consciousness doesn't exist in the real world, i don't know why people are suggesting this (if you've read being and nothingness you would definitely know sartre doesn't think consciousness doesn't exist outside of reality), but because in our existence we are constantly nihilating against the foundation of our being by merely being conscious. reality exists because there is a Being. we can not ever know the other's reality, and this leads to a type of solipsism, but sartre believes that he is able to avoid such a catastrophe through our being-for-others. would his existentialism exist without free will? no. absolutely not. he finds our ontological status to be completely founded upon freedom, due to our nihilation by the for-itself of the in-itself.

read being and nothingness if you really want to understand his system. but i'm warning you now, it's most certainly not flawless. and i find heidegger's being and time to have been a much stronger existential phenomenology.

>> No.2768331

Mindy likes to ride a motorcycle.