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/lit/ - Literature

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2764862 No.2764862 [Reply] [Original]

ITT psychoanalyze Muersault previous to the murder

>> No.2764865

Why care when you don't?

>> No.2764867

Well adjusted.
Going places.
So dapper.

>> No.2764871

He wants to kill his father and have sex with his mother. The arab symbolized his father and Marie his mother.

>> No.2764870

I would contribute to this thread OP, but it's rather hot and I don't feel much like typing a lot.

I'll see how this thread is going later, I'm going to go have a smoke.

>> No.2764873

>>2764871
He doesn't seem to give a fuck about his mother or Marie (or the Arabs).

>> No.2764879
File: 13 KB, 220x324, Sigmund Freud..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2764879

>>2764873
Repression

>> No.2764883

It was obvious he and Raymond were fucking

>> No.2764886

>>2764871
>>2764879

LOL @ dumbasses taking the psychoanalytic critique road.

Bet you didn't even grasp the beauty of the opening line of the novel.

>> No.2764907

IT WAS JUST TOO FUCKING HOT, MAN, LIKE, DA SUN WAS IN MY EYES AND JUST..FUCK..DA UNIVERSE IS ABSURD, U KNOW? I DUN HAVE TO EXPLAIN MY SHIT 2 U


how'd i do?

>> No.2764908

>>2764883
and Celeste watched and jerked it with a bread roll from his restaurant.

>> No.2764910

>>2764886
>Bet you didn't even grasp the beauty of the opening line of the novel.

I can guarantee you didn't either.

>> No.2764911

Standing on the beach
With a gun in my hand
Staring at the sea
Staring at the sand
Staring down the barrel
At the arab on the ground
I can see his open mouth
But I hear no sound

>> No.2764912

>>2764907
That's after the murder. But I lol'd regardless. Do you think Camus would be overcome with violent repulsion and hatred if he ever saw how we butchered his works here? /lit/ is a truly hilarious and awful place

>> No.2764921

>>2764910
Life is like a garden.
You don't end up where you started.
Reminds me of that feeling when you wake up in the morning.

>> No.2764923

>>2764911
I'M ALIVE

DOOOOOOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I'm dead.

EEEEEEE-EE

I AM THE STRANGER,

KILLIN' AN ARAB

>> No.2764931

>>2764886
>>2764910
The opening line from L'Étranger:

"Aujourd'hui, maman est morte. Ou peut-être hier, je ne sais pas."

It's impossible to translate it perfectly and convey the same meaning. There is no equivalent for 'maman'. Mother, which is often used as the English version is to formal and cold. 'Maman' is more akin to 'mummy' but without the childish connotations. When read in French the use of 'Maman' changes the tone of the book drastically as it suggests a hint of affection towards his Mother.

>> No.2764936

>>2764931
There are other indications of the same affection. Don't be so dramatic.

>> No.2764939

>>2764931
Yeah, I always found frustration with that. It's sad that the English language has no word for that level of relationship. You described it perfectly, Maman is like mommy, but without sounding like a child. It's a name that, when read by a native french speaker, elicits the relationship of the reader and the reader's mother.

It is my view that Camus' wrote this with a male reader as the ideal for his audience.

>> No.2764947
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2764947

>"Aujourd'hui, maman est morte. Ou peut-être hier, je ne sais pas."

Today, Mom died. Or maybe yesterday, I don't know.

My translation has "Maman died today," and I like it that way, though.

>> No.2764954

>>2764939
>It is my view that Camus' wrote this with a male reader as the ideal for his audience.

well no fucking shit. is it also your view that the novel features a murder?

>> No.2764956

>>2764947
>MOTHER died today. Or, maybe, yesterday; I can’t be sure.

>> No.2764959

>>2764954
I knew someone was going to be hostile.

Believe it or not, it's often necessary to point out the obvious when discussing a work.

>> No.2764960

>>2764956
Yes, because "mother" sounds anything but sterile.
>cunt

>> No.2764961

EVERYONE POST THIS SENTENCE FROM YOUR COPY, I WISH TO COMPARE

"...I laid my heart open to the benign indifference of the universe."

>> No.2764963

>>2764947
Yeah, the translation I read had that, and I checked the little Translator's Note and it explained the lack of English counterpart. I honestly thought it was a nice touch, to include that because of its cultural poignancy, rather than simply translate and leave the connotation behind.

>> No.2764966

>>2764947
"In English, 'mom' might seem the closest fit for Camus’s sentence, but there’s still something off-putting and abrupt about the single-syllable word; the two-syllable maman has a touch of softness and warmth that is lost with mom.'"

-Bloom

Your translation would be even worse if you didn't know what maman meant prior to reading. and we are still on the first line, you would be surprised how much is actually lost in translation.

>> No.2764968

>>2764961
OKAY HOLD ON

"I opened myself to the gentle indifference of the world."

>> No.2764970

>>2764961
Mine uses "gentle indifference."

I prefer my copy.

>> No.2764971
File: 33 KB, 400x292, 1340564870348.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2764971

>>2764960
>implying I was arguing in favour of a certain interpretation

cunt. mfw people can't into the impossibility of perfectly replicated authorial intent due to the restriction inherent to language

>> No.2764972

>>2764971
All I'm saying is that your translation was bad. Sorey if'n I called ye a cunt.

>> No.2764978

>>2764961
Your version:
>benign indifference of the universe

Camus:
la tendre indifférence du monde
the tender indifference of the world

>> No.2764979

>>2764961
>>2764968
>>2764970

Thanks bros. I like mine the most it's in french

>> No.2764981

>>2764978
>connotations > linguistic similarity

>> No.2764982

>>2764947
Mother died today. Or yesterday, I can't be sure.
>implying this isn't the GOAT translation.

>> No.2764985

>>2764978
You don't know what you're doing.

>> No.2764986

>>2764981
the fuck you talking about, kid?

Benign in french is bénin
Tender is Tendre

Universe in French is univers
World is monde

>> No.2764994

>>2764986
>implying Camus is speaking literally here

>> No.2765004

>>2764986
>in which he think words translate perfectly by root and don't diverge in connotation as they diverge in time

>> No.2765007

>this thread

>> No.2765033

He's just an honest man and could probably be any/every one of us.

To psychoanalyse means to define some sort of abnormality in him and that simply doesn't apply since he's most of us.

>> No.2765036

I like how Mersault externalizes everything he feels.

Whenever he ends up in a situation where a typical person would get angry, he only feels the physical symptoms of anger, but is dissociated from the actual emotion.

As a result, every time he experiences anger, he says he's getting "hot."

>> No.2765046

>>2765033
Dumbest thing I ever read about this novel.

>> No.2765061

>>2765046
What are you denying? he is honest. That much is given and I think that way it could be so easy for each of to relate but most don't because we get caught up in excesses.

>> No.2765068

>>2765061
His abnormalities are a central point in the novel- to deny them is to misunderstand the plot completely

>> No.2765072

>>2765068
He's not abnormal. He is devoid of the abnormalities most other people have

>> No.2765077
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2765077

>>2764931

>Aujourd'hui, maman est morte.
>Mother died today.
>dat tense difference
>mfw literal english translation, "Today mother is dead," sounds autistic

>> No.2765081

>>2765068
but more crucial to the novel is that those 'abnormalities' are the result of his honesty and it's really not that extreme. he doesn't seem disconnected from society but it's not a chasm that separates him.
also
>thinking there's one interpretation of a novel
if you're going to hold to this then the discussion was over before it began.

>> No.2765084

>>2765072
Interesting way of looking at it, but wrong none-the-less.

Abnormality: deviating from the normal or differing from the typical. The normal and typical and expressions of majority- thus the conclusion that everyone has an abnormality is both logically and linguistically false. OK?

>> No.2765090

>>2765084
my apologies- the normal and typical are*

>> No.2765093

Ya'll fellahs are aware that the "n" in "maman" is silent, yeah? Why can't they just translate is "mama"? Why not? Meursault should totally have a southern accent. He could be the Francophone Benjy. Think about it, he's silent and broody most of the time, then shoots a bloke 'cause of the sun -- sounds borderline retard to me...

>> No.2765094

>>2765081
It's not a discussion about the overall novel, just the clearly defined characteristics (of the character) that the Author deliberately utilises to convey meaning. I really wish you people would think before you post.

>> No.2765099

>>2765084
To be "normal" in every respect is itself abnormal. That is, to have some form of disagreement with or be contrary to the majority of your peers in some way is normal.

It's really a question of how you measure normality and what you measure it by though.

>> No.2765100

>>2765093
Because mama is not a commonly used phrase in English- it stems from foreign nationalities learning English and imposing linguistic features from their mother-toungue

>> No.2765102

>>2765099
I don't think you have a leg to stand on, but I'll agree to disagree.

>> No.2765105

>>2765084
Wouldn't you say what makes him interesting is that paradox more normal in nonconformity?

>> No.2765106

>>2765036
>>2765036
>>2765036

I love this way of interpreting him.

>> No.2765111

>>2765102
>>>/sci/

>> No.2765112

>>2765084
>thus the conclusion that everyone has an abnormality is both logically and linguistically false. OK?

No, are you implying that everybody conforms to the same patterns with no variety? in the book he is acting as the 'baseline', the skeletal structure that emotion rests upon - he has the various fleshy nuances removed. We are all him with extra built on top, added emotional responses and ways of perceiving and reacting to things. Which are abnormal because the are absurd, and because they have so much variety one particular trait cannot be regarded as conventional.

>> No.2765116

>>2765111
Thanks for your glowing contribution to the board. Have you though about adopting a tripcode? Just wonderful.

>> No.2765117

>>2765112
No, he isn't. It's not a base-line; it's a transcendence.

>> No.2765120

>>2765117
This is the point where critical analysis meets petty arguments of opinion.

>>2765116
No one cares for your dictionary definition of normal. You're not helping. Take up a tripcode yourself.

>> No.2765121

>>2765120
>the meaning of words
>irrelevant
>literature

jesus, this board is fucked

>> No.2765122

>>2765120
>implying all analysis isn't thus

You're only fooling yourself.

>> No.2765124

>>2765121
You can define words and use them to describe characters but that word is never used to describe the character in the novel so it doesn't matter how strict your definition for that word is, that alone doesn't make its application to the character more relevant. Comprende?

>> No.2765128

>>2765122
CRITICAL analysis refers to passages in the text for support. It's not just blanket judgements.

>> No.2765129

>>2765117
It's not a transcendence it's an absence.

>>2765124
>but that word is never used to describe the character in the novel

Would you prefer this debate in French?

>> No.2765134

>>2765129
yeah the point would be the same for the french version.