[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 101 KB, 540x591, Bjork (8).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743190 No.2743190 [Reply] [Original]

Are there any books which actually try to justify eating meat? Because some hilarious back-bending and mental gymnastics would be required to write something like that.

>> No.2743192

go to bed morrissey

captcha: erers to as shall renchus

>> No.2743196

>>2743190
morality doesn't exist. boom, justified it for you, faggot.

>> No.2743199

That really doesn't look like Bjork, dayum

>> No.2743201

>>2743196
A lot of people seem to think it does. Why are you right and they're wrong?

Also, I asked for books.

>> No.2743203

Yeah, pretty much every serious published dietician recommends eating meat.

>> No.2743204

>>2743201
Bro, bro, bro... come on.

>> No.2743213

>>2743201
burden of proof, bruz

>> No.2743223

Are there any books that actually try to justify spending time on 4chan causing controversy for cheap amusement?

>> No.2743229

here your justification:

non-human animals are lesser beings than humans, therefore dig in!

>> No.2743235

>>2743229
>non-human animals are lesser beings than humans
On what basis? Intelligence? Where's the line? Is it okay to eat a chimpanzee? What if you're REALLY smart?

>> No.2743233

>>2743223
http://www.amazon.com/Mad-Internets-Guide-Idiots-ebook/dp/B006WDDRCM/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&
amp;qid=1340343762&sr=1-3&keywords=4chan

>> No.2743237

>>2743229
sociopath detected

not only that, there have been studies that show those who treat animals like shit treat people like shit and have less empathy

>> No.2743244

Animals are easy to catch, delicious and made of food. So are humans, which is why we eat people too in parts of the world where we can get away with it; The Congo, Some parts of the Amazon rainforest, Liberia...

>> No.2743249

>>2743244
>it's possible
I'm not sure how that's justifying it.

>> No.2743259

>>2743249
it's already been justified, stop shitting up the board. the fact that you don't accept the justification is irrelevant.

>> No.2743271

>>2743259
I asked for BOOKS justifying it. The fact that you can make posts that you feel justify it is irrelevant.

>> No.2743297

Real men, scholars or peons or what-have-you, don't need to justify anything. Good/bad contra right/wrong, and so on.

Stop being such a faggot.
0/10, would send to gas chamber

>> No.2743300

>>2743271
Why make a book about something that can be answered in a few simple words? Did you get raped by a steak as a child or something?

>> No.2743304

>>2743300
Nah. Animals have never hurt me. So I'm confused as to why you're so insistent that it's perfectly cool to hurt them.

Does it just come down to "I like it so it's okay?"

>> No.2743307

>>2743304
What do you have against plants? Why do you want to eat them?

>> No.2743311

>>2743307
Plants lack neurons and thus don't have sensation and are literally in no way aware of anything. There's no reason to believe they even experience "being alive." Unlike animals.

>> No.2743314

>>2743237
Don't lie, you just read that off the PETA sticker fag.

>> No.2743316

>>2743304
You're arbitrarily placing value where it doesn't exist. If you want to keep being delusional, go for it, but don't expect everyone else to agree with you. Also I think you would benefit from looking up the word 'justification' and doing a google search of 'morality'. Have a nice life,

>> No.2743319

>>2743311
They are aware of changes in light, sound, hot/cold.

>> No.2743321

>>2743304
Nope. It comes down to "nothing is not ok, so it's ok". How are you not following this?

>> No.2743323

>>2743311

Flies have neurons (I think), and I'm sure you've swatted one or two in your time. So there is a line drawn somewhere, it just depends on where you're comfortable drawing that line, I guess.

>> No.2743325

>>2743244
Are you implying everyone is a natural sociopath or something?

what the fuck is with you people and all this edgy

>> No.2743328

>>2743321
You're literally more willing to claim that burning small children alive is okay than to give up meat?

You're pretty despicable.

>> No.2743336

>>2743201
Isn't morality a subjective thing, thus if I don't believe in it, that's good enough for me.

>> No.2743339

kill all humans

>> No.2743340

>>2743336
do you even empathy

>> No.2743346

>>2743340
When I was younger I guess, but I just don't feel it now. Not related to 4chan.

>> No.2743347

stop trying to impose your opinion on others hate to tell you, but no one gives a fuck what you think.

>> No.2743353

>>2743346
fag

>> No.2743358

>>2743328
Burning small children is not evil, neither is raping the child before you burn them, you can even kill their entire family and guess what...still not evil. However, it is socially unacceptable and outside of the tolerance threshold we have called law.

>> No.2743360

>>2743328
Seems like this is your first encounter with this kind of philosophy so I'll be easier on you. Basically, you have to stop making comparative arguments. Morality not existing encompasses every scenario you can think of. There's nothing that makes "burning small children" any worse than eating meat.

>> No.2743363
File: 32 KB, 596x346, 1340201469777.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743363

This discussion reminds me of this image.

>> No.2743367

>>2743358
>>2743360
I'd love to find you both and right before I put a bullet in your heads I'd have you say to me "this doesn't bother me, you're not evil, fuck morals"

>> No.2743368

>>2743190
>Are there any books which actually try to justify eating meat?
Pretty much every book that wasn't written by an animal rights activist. We have roughly the same right to eat a cow that a wolf has to eat a deer.

>> No.2743370

>>2743321
If you're a sociopath then your argument is instantly made mute.

>> No.2743373

Why are ethics so unpopular among you kids?

>> No.2743375
File: 216 KB, 344x315, 1338054795445.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743375

Humans are omnivores.
Why do you need a justification for that?
Do you need justification for the fact that we have ten fingers?

>> No.2743378 [DELETED] 

>>2743373
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-real-diseases-that-have-somehow-become-trendy_p2/

>> No.2743380

>>2743360
I'm not OP and I love eating meat, but for the sake of debate... Suppose we subscribe to utilitarianism(categorical or consequential), why shouldn't sentient animals be granted the same right to life as humans and included in the majority? You can only reply using Locke, Kant, Hume and Bentham.

>> No.2743381

>>2743229
But don't you think that if the subjugation of animals is okay, it should at least be done for the greater advancement of ourselves.

The less animals you eat, the more there are to experiment on.

>> No.2743382

>>2743373
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-real-diseases-that-have-somehow-become-trendy/

>> No.2743388

>>2743367
You've misunderstood the entire point. Well done!

>> No.2743389

>>2743237

lol, calm down honkey. don't go around using words you don't understand. ain't no study linkin' sociopaths with the idea that non-human animals can't even put together a written language.

>> No.2743392

>>2743367
Although that's a completely retarded interpretation of what's being said here, that's likely how I'd react. You mad?

>> No.2743393

>>2743382
Just because you hold the belief that morals don't exist means you have or think you have anti-social personality. It's more of a view of moral nihilism

>> No.2743394

>>2743370
>mute

5/10. now please stop shitting up the board, /sp/artan

>> No.2743396

>>2743382
>cracked

teenagers are fucking hilarious

>> No.2743399
File: 171 KB, 390x259, 1297916940815.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743399

A basic biology book.
0/10 Troll thread.

I mean posting Björk, a committed omnivore. C'mon.

>> No.2743405

You're a faggot. The end.

>> No.2743407

>>2743392
>you mad
typical sociopath from /b/
go back to where you belong

>> No.2743409

>>2743407
he mad

>> No.2743429
File: 42 KB, 384x288, laughingrichhomersimpson.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743429

>>2743358
>violating one's right to property and life is not immoral

You cannot argue logcially argue in favor of an action that violates the non-aggression principle or the homesteading principle. They are axioms of objective logic. Have fun getting blown to bits whilst trying to steal my property or murder me, subjectivist scum.

>> No.2743434

>>2743429
What the fuck are you on about, kid. Have fun arguing that evil actually exists and isn't a social construct.

>> No.2743448

>>2743429
What the legitimate fuck are you trying to say, retard? From what I could rescue form the intellectual bonfire that is your post, you're agreeing with the post you quoted.

>> No.2743451

>>2743434
Every person has a moral code. That is to say, every person has a code by which they live their life. Your code may be "I will live my life as though there is no objective morality", but you must be alive to hold that moral code. Survival, therefore, must be a moral imperative, since every moral code is dependent upon the adherent being alive. If you are dead, you cannot be moral or immoral, etc.

Any coercive assault on an individual is therefore immoral, because it goes against the individual's right to live.

>> No.2743453

>>2743434
And? Here, do you feel empathy? are a you sociopath?
This makes your argument instantly mute as HUMAN BEINGS WITH FRONTAL LOBES THAT AREN'T DEFECTIVE NATURALLY FEEL EMPATHY
HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT NATURALLY BAD OR GOOD BUT THEY AREN'T COMPLETELY BAD LIKE YOU THINK
WE NEED SOCIAL CONSTRUCTS! DO YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A CAVE OR SOMETHING?
MUH SPOOKS FUCK MORALS MUH SPOOKS

>> No.2743456

>>2743448
>the intellectual bonfire that is your post
That phrase really made me chuckle, thanks.

>> No.2743457

Foer's Eating Animals doesn't defend eating meat (especially considering that he's a vegan now), but of all the books I've read that deal with that sort of thing this book is the most empathetic to the perspective of the meat-eater.

>> No.2743467

>>2743453
You're a pretty decent troll, I'll give you that. The "mute" is a nice touch.

>> No.2743471

>>2743453
You have a supreme misunderstanding of what a "sociopath" is. I feel plenty of empathy, yet agree that eating animals is completely justified and awesome.

>> No.2743475

>>2743451
>Any coercive assault on an individual is therefore immoral, because it goes against the individual's right to live.
Ah, so your a vegan too.

>> No.2743476

>>2743456
any time. i probably stole it from somewhere subconsciously

>> No.2743478

>>2743471
What about how they are treated?

>> No.2743481

>>2743478
I prefer that they are treated humanely and killed humanely.

>> No.2743484

>>2743481
WHY YOU COULDN'T YOU OF JUST SAID THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>> No.2743488

>>2743484
Because that is his personal preference. If the animal is mistreated it doesn't automatically become evil, and he is still eating meat.

>> No.2743489
File: 4 KB, 222x211, point.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743489

>>2743481

But they aren't humans. Why arbitrarily apply to animals the same sort of ethics we reserve for humans?

>> No.2743490
File: 20 KB, 281x290, 43f43f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743490

>>2743484

>COULDN'T YOU OF

>> No.2743491

>>2743484
>OF

>> No.2743493

>>2743190

In the words of Louis C.K.:

I know that its wrong. But I just. Don't. Care.

>> No.2743499

>>2743489
you're just a sociopath

>> No.2743506
File: 94 KB, 300x350, 1337070865467.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743506

>70 posts and 4 images omitted

>> No.2743507

>>2743493
Commit suicide.

>> No.2743510

>>2743489
Because empathy. If I'm going to eat a chicken and am given the choice of it being tortured before it is killed or being treated humanely, I will choose the latter. Why would I put an animal through additional pain for no reason?

>> No.2743513

How hard is it to justify eating meat, are you serious?
>it tastes good
>we need it

>> No.2743520

>>2743513

How hard is it to justify not eating meat, are you serious?

>millions of innocent creatures endure horrific suffering because 'it tastes good'
>we don't need it

lrn2empathy

>> No.2743522

>>2743520

The point of the thread was to justify eating meat, not to disqualify the justification of not eating meat. Your point is moot.

>> No.2743525

>>2743522

I was making his attempt at justification defunct you doofus

>> No.2743526

>>2743525

You did a poor job at it.

>> No.2743527

>>2743526

No I didn't

>> No.2743533
File: 57 KB, 590x391, bacon-cabin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743533

>>2743520
Would you like to enter my Bacon Cabin? Oh that's right... No faggots allowed.

>> No.2743537

>>2743527
You can't write; you can't think; you have no discernible talent. Leave your delusions of grandeur at the door.

>> No.2743538

It is rather simple.

Most people who eat meat do not comprehend the suffering of the animals, nor do they truly empathize with the animals anyway.

This is because the animals (and their associated suffering) are not truly present to them.

Make hunters watch an animal in peace for days before killing them, and I doubt they could.

The same thing with soldiers and their enemies.

In fact, before soldiers go into war, they are often shown propaganda dehumanizing their enemies, painting them as savage animals bent on evil and destruction through ignorance.

When eating meat slaughtered and butchered into nice little packages before you ever see it, there is no need for such propaganda.

Besides that, I think humans hold little sympathy for animals incapable of demonstrably extracting themselves from the world around them.

The less a thing resembles me (both internally and externally), the less I care about it.

etc.

>> No.2743539
File: 78 KB, 640x482, meatiest-sandwich-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743539

>>2743533
You could have come inside and shared this tasty sandwich.

>> No.2743543
File: 36 KB, 459x288, tfwdfw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743543

>>2743537

>> No.2743546
File: 42 KB, 398x390, Casuals.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743546

>>2743539
Let's get this started
>Murrika

>> No.2743549

>>2743538
I go deer stalking every year. I know exactly what it feels like to kill an animal. To be perfectly honest venison I have killed myself always tastes a little nicer, there is more of a connection with the food after spending a whole weekend hunting it.

>> No.2743551
File: 36 KB, 480x360, emvideo-youtube-uTIYn8NP87Y_21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743551

>>2743546
Perhaps you would like to stay in the meat cathedral then?

>> No.2743555
File: 62 KB, 630x400, Full201101261525252994026_meat-salad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743555

>>2743551
We have a lovely vegan meat salad for you.

>> No.2743556
File: 25 KB, 480x360, emvideo-youtube-FlN4Ho50abA[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743556

>>2743551
I think I'll just drive away in my meat car thank you.

>> No.2743558

>>2743549
I doubt you see very much humanity in the deer.

>> No.2743559

I don't need any book. I'm a nihilist and I enjoy the taste of meat.

>> No.2743560

>>2743537

>Gets all upset because he realises the hellish suffering he has supported for so long
>Rather than accepting this and altering his behaviour, like a man, instead employs self defence mechanism and attacks the argument's proponent rather than the argument itself

Such are carnivores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism

>> No.2743564

>>2743556
o-oh ok then. But be sure to take some bacon strips and bacon strips and bacon strips and some Dack Janiels with you.

>> No.2743567 [SPOILER] 
File: 35 KB, 650x179, 1340301303185.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743567

>>2743560
>being new
If you'd been here for longer than 10 minutes, maybe tried to appreciate the board culture, lurked moar, you might have realised that it was what's called a joke.

You don't know how morality works by the way kid. You should read a little more about it, you might find it easier to conceptualise it. Your opinions might change in doing so, might not.

>> No.2743572

Depends on the situation.

There's nutritional necessity, many areas of the world aren't blessed with the fertile lands of India, nor naturally occurring legumes etc. so eating meat would be an easy, cost-less method of acquiring proteins.
In similar areas you'll find people with nomadic lifestyles, who rely almost entirely on their livestock for survival.

Okay, you say, but we have the resources to not eat meat!!

Yup.

So there's the problem of overpopulation of certain animals if we were to stop eating meat, unless we keep killing animals but just don't eat them?
If we were to stop eating meat killing pretty much our entire population of livestock would be required.

The animals killed aren't just used for eating meat, their skins are used in leather, their bones in a variety of products, their organs again used for non-food purposes. Of course this isn't true for all animals, and these days we could probably reduce the gross of our livestock, and make entirely synthetic clothes out of hemp and plastic.

Then you have the argument that animals aren't thinking, so they don't really care that they get eaten. They feel if they get hurt and if they are uncomfortable or comfortable, this is instinctual to them, so there is a definite argument for animal welfare (against factory farming) that while we like to eat animals, having them suffer is cruelty and we don't want that.

>> No.2743574

>>2743538
>The less a thing resembles me (both internally and externally), the less I care about it.

>aware of this
>doesn't care to fix it
I'd end you in heartbeat and not even feel a thing? disgusting wretch

>> No.2743575

Ulysses.

>> No.2743577

>>2743558
humanity is evil and overrated

>> No.2743580

>>2743572
Animals are more self-aware than you think.

>> No.2743581

>>2743304
op is a very skilled troll
i'm not mad, but i respect that you have a serious maddening technique
cheers

>> No.2743584

>>2743572
I agree with everything you said, apart from
>Then you have the argument that animals aren't thinking

But the argument is really about the ethics and morality surrounding eating an animal, not the practicality or sustainability.

>> No.2743585

>>2743567

I've been on /lit/ for over a year. I understand that you were referring to Harold Bloom's comment about DFW. In fact I'm reading IJ right now! However, you could have been using the reference to make a point rather than a joke. This is a pitfall of text based discussion.

I do understand morality. The fact you've inferred I don't from what I've said is ridiculous. My own moral obligations include the reduction of suffering. I shouldn't need to mention this at the beginning of what is clearly an argument, it should be obvious.

GOODBYE

>> No.2743590

fuck morals and ethics

i smash people for fun

>> No.2743591

>>2743577
evil doesn't exist

>> No.2743594

>>2743591
You are obviously an emotionally insensitive person who lacks the intense and burning hatred of all those who are immoral.

>> No.2743597

>>2743594

9/10

nice

>> No.2743599

>>2743538
This is just silly city-dweller mentality.

>>2743572 This is me btw

I grew up in a fairly rural area and it wasn't uncommon for my friends to come from farms, or for them to have some livestock. Maybe just a coupe of cows but still.

A friend of mine got a baby cow as a pet, and it was his responsibility to take care of it,feed it, make sure it was doing well, etc. and then when it was grown, to send it to the butchers. Because that is the life-cycle of livestock.

When I was a kid we had chicken in our yard, I would go out and feed and water them and they'd be borking about, and then when they were fully grown my mom killed them, then we plucked them, and then my great-grandmama came over and helped us butcher them.

Neither of us are sociopaths or mad killers or whatever, but they're just chickens, I am sure they had a good time while they were alive and then they died, just like everything else does. Then we ate them and they were delicious. I didn't have to dehumanize the chickens to not feel horrible about eating them.

Really you should give rearing some sort of edible animal a go, it is much less fuss than you are making it.

>> No.2743602

>most obvious troll ever
>a gorillion posts and 15 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

Why so childishly naive, /lit/?

>> No.2743607

>>2743602
the fact that you took the time to reply to my thread indicates that you are yet another upset individual. also, in saging a thread but providing a jumping point for further discussion you're effectively bumping it. stay unintelligent, friend.

>> No.2743610

Animals that are bred to be killed shouldn't exist in the first place. I understand that some countries cannot afford to consume meat alternatives instead, but in first world countries the existence of a meat industry is unnecessary. You're applying what you've experienced personally, where a chicken was cared for and killed with minimal pain, to an industry in which millions and millions and millions of chickens endure HORRIFIC lives of suffering and then just die.

>just chickens

Fuck you.

>> No.2743611

>>2743574
Care to fix what? It's the nature of animals; it can not be fixed.

I am able to realize the resemblances between myself and even the smallest of insects, our lives fleeting and filled with the driest passions; this does not compel me to love the insect as I love myself, nor as I love my neighbor, nor as I love an orangutan.

The bottom line of it is (no matter how much it disconcerts):

I do not; no, I CAN NOT care about something that does not resemble me in anyway.

But all things resemble me in some way.

Plants moreso than rocks,
animals moreso than plants,
humans moreso than chimpanzees.

And the use of the pronoun "me" previously correlates only loosely to my physical person; when I used the word "me," I was referring to my identity, which is a more psychological concept.

>> No.2743614

>>2743610

is a reply to

>>2743599

>> No.2743618

>>2743611
OH YEAH EVERYONE IS JUST LIKE YOU IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THIS TO HAPPEN TO SOMEONE ELSE

Fuck you you ugly little piece of shit, it is possible and can happen but obviously not you.
fucking close-minded fool, i'd slit your throat if i knew you

>> No.2743619

>>2743584
I would say they're very much connected.

If you don't make sure your, as an example, deer population is sustained, you'll end up with a fucking gazillion deers, they'll start spreading outside of the area they live in, they'll be ont he roads endangering people, they'll be eating and trampling down crops, they'll be in peoples gardens where they might freak out, they'll run out of food and starve to death (and so will every animal that eats the same thing as them), they'll spread and get more diseases, etc. etc.

What is the most wrong, sustaining the population by shooting deer and controlling its size and eating whatever is left, or having animals starve to death?

If you disregard the practicability and sustainability questions, there are no more questions about eating the meat of an animal than there are about eating a plant or an insect. Just to preempt "but humans are animals too": Yes, and there is nothing ethically wrong about eating the meat of a human if you remove questions of practicability and sustainability.

>> No.2743621

>>2743602
>implying troll threads aren't great for discussions

so dumb

>> No.2743628

>>2743611
you're the same kind of fuckwit that probably thinks negative qualities of humans cannot be and should not be changed and fixed.
HURR DURR ITS NATURAL ITS NATURE! HURRRRRRR

you will never penetrate your own heart and i don't even care

>> No.2743629

>>2743618
0/10, you're getting more and more desperate and it shows :( I miss you glory days

>> No.2743630

>>2743618

2/10

>> No.2743631

>>2743619
>if you disregard the practicability
>remove questions of practicability

>practicability
My new favourite word.

>> No.2743634
File: 74 KB, 599x415, steak.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743634

If god didn't intend for us to eat meat, how come he gave animals legs to keep that tasty meat out of the dirt?

>> No.2743633

>>2743610
And as I said in my original post there are definitely arguments against factory farming, I don't support that either. Should the fact that there is an industry of factory farming in which animals suffer, mean that I can't eat any meat at all?

What about fish?


Also if you had ever reared a chicken you would know that they are just chickens, they aren't people.

>> No.2743635

>>2743634
Flawless argument. Let's see you edgy bastards get out of this one.

>> No.2743641

>>2743628
I can see I've penetrated something of yours.

If you're just going to make random ad hominem remarks that don't pertain to things I've previously posted, you're in for a bad time.

>> No.2743640

>>2743634
If god didn't intend for us to eat meat, how come he made animals out of food?

>> No.2743655

>>2743641
>speaking in absolutes
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF BEFORE I MAKE YOUR "SELF" DISAPPEAR

>> No.2743670
File: 52 KB, 450x723, meat-ad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743670

Vegetarians need to calm down and have a nice steak.

>> No.2743690

>>2743655
1/10

Now you're making threats.

You have 2 options:

1. Refute the argument.
2. Come at me, bro.

The fact that I speak in "absolutes" should make my argument fairly easy to contradict.

>> No.2743710

>>2743690
I'm right and that's all that matters.

>> No.2743724
File: 35 KB, 315x500, ego.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2743724

>>2743190

>> No.2744206

>>2743368
A wolf cannot contemplate the ethics of eating a deer. We can.

>> No.2744211

>>2743399
I didn't know Björk had said anything on the matter one way or another. Has she written any books defending her choice?

Even a blog post would be fine.

>> No.2744215

>>2743724
OP here. I've read it. Have you read The Rebel?

>> No.2744222
File: 30 KB, 500x411, 1340095930876.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2744222

>tfw the OP pic makes you realise that your favourite fetish is icelandic women with melodicas
>tfw constantly unfulfilled

>> No.2744235

I would love to see the problem of overcrowding fixed by vegetarianism when animals aren't being killed regularly. I'd love to see all the farmers lose their jobs (elderly people that have no qualifications), everybody get bitch tits from phyto-estrogens in any source of protein comparable to meat, there be a zillion dollars wasted on effectively managing animal natural deaths, and no fertiliser of course. I would love to see the food chain fuck up more than anything.

Fuck off OP. Just fuck off. Your empty arguments of 'empathy' and 'sociopathy' mean nothing. If you don't want to eat animals, good for you.