/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.2710097]

So, hs /lit/ become the socialist, atheist elite of 4chan?

Here we have the erudite, the multicultural, the enlightened. The intellectual resistance, on a website that has been taken over by the Far Right movement and its innate stupidity, loudness and vulgarity.

I have to say, I'm proud of you.

[Anonymous No.2710098]

Agnostic Libertarian reporting in

[Anonymous No.2710099]

Everyone on /lit/ hates multiculturalist niggerbreeding liberals, Zionist Jews, and third wave feminism.

If you don't, you may not be a slave of a Jewish conspiracy, but you are a giant sopping pussy.

[Anonymous No.2710100]

>>2710099
>Everyone on /lit/ hates multiculturalist niggerbreeding liberals, Zionist Jews, and third wave feminism.

no, we don't

[Anonymous No.2710101]

>>2710099
>and third wave feminism
This. The amount of them that populate this board is nauseating.

[Anonymous No.2710102]

/lit/ is just as stupid as any board on 4chan. We don't represent any position, we don't have a visible personality, we are not a collective. Everything we say is simultaneously smart, dumb, a lie and the truth.

[Anonymous No.2710103]

>>2710100
ילד טוב, ייתכן שיהיה במלגת

[Anonymous No.2710105]

>Stalin
I'm disappointed with him because he failed to kill Ayn Rand.

[Anonymous No.2710110]

>>2710101

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.2710113]

>>2710097
Can't say we're all that fond of Stalin...
>>2710098
Nobody's perfect
>>2710101
You haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. gb2/hc/
>>2710102
True, but in general, this IS where the smarter, more open minded, people of 4chan tend to go.

[Anonymous No.2710115]

>socialist
Sure.
>atheist
Yep.
>enlightened
Uh-huh
>intellectual
Yeah
>multicultural
NO. FUCK YOU. NO! NO! NO!

[Anonymous No.2710117]

Stalin and Steve Jobs are my favorite dudes of history, working class bros who went on to be kings, ruthlessly crushing their weak bourgeois competitors.

[Anonymous No.2710118]

>>2710113
Yeah, the smarter termites.

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.2710119]

>>2710115
What does this word mean to you, young man?

[Anonymous No.2710120]

>>2710119
Muslims, basically.

[Anonymous No.2710121]

I feel bad for the fellows who actually argue here with their honest opinions. Every smart guy already employs a proxy. Why compromise your inner integrity? Maintaining one these days isn't easy -- for everyone par the most fundamental fundies.

[Anonymous No.2710124]

>>2710117

[Anonymous No.2710126]

Check your able-bodied privilege, cis-males.

[Anonymous No.2710129]

>>2710121
wtf r talkin abt fgt

[Anonymous No.2710132]

>>2710129
u replied, u lose

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.2710136]

Feminism

[Anonymous No.2710137]

>>2710132
fug

[Anonymous No.2710138]

socialist,
I admire it's intentions, but I can't agree.
Workers aren't to be trusted.
>atheist
Most people here are the wrong kind of atheist.
>erudite
I like to think so
> multicultural
Depends on the cultures.
> enlightened
Somewhat

[Anonymous No.2710149]

> Workers aren't to be trusted.

i like this phrase. it's true. pandering to the working class is always dangerous whether right-wing populist or far left socialist it usually doesn't end well.

[Anonymous No.2710150]

>>2710119

> Implying the Hagia Sophia isn't a product of Western culture that was raped and mutilated by the Turks.

[Anonymous No.2710154]

>>2710097
>socialist
No. Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.2710155]

Somebody needs to start some kind of Eastern Orthodox Zionist type shit were Christians flood into Turkey and take over. Let's see how the Muslims like it when the shoe is on the other food!

[Anonymous No.2710159]

you are even wort than those "far right" you are talking about.

please leave and read.

[Anonymous No.2710164]

>>2710159
try to post coherent dude

[Anonymous No.2710173]

>>2710097

There are a lot of Stormfaggy trolls (most of whom are probably leftists), but there's honestly probably also more near–reactionary intellectual conservative opinion on this board than any other on 4chan. It leans leftist because of the bullshit curricula in most humanities depts (especially English), but I don't think its as monolithic as new people may imagine.

As to atheism, that's more accurate, but there are definitely a number of Catholics and some Orthodox judging by threads over the life of the board.

[Anonymous No.2710177]

This thread reeks of angst,
especially >>2710115

[Anonymous No.2710190]

E/llit/ists don't have definite opinions about anything; they believe whatever makes them sound smarter at any given time.

[Anonymous No.2710192]

>>2710177
This wholesome family thanks you for your fallacious ad hominem support.

[Anonymous No.2710249]

love to put those ignorant Rand fans in their place.
/lit/ is the only place keeping that shit where it belongs and it's nice to see

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.2710250]

>>2710120
If a we want there to be less immigration, we must do our best to improve the conditions of the country of their origins.
>>2710136
Being able to go topless isn't high on my list, but why should young men and women be treated any differently for flashing or fear some kind of assault?
>>2710138
>Workers aren't to be trusted.
People aren't to be trusted. Completely.
>>2710150
A contrast of old and new. All that was implied.
>>2710154
You don't know the meaning.
>>2710164
"Coherently"
>>2710190
I despise this "elite" stuff. If you're smart and egotistical about it, you're a ponce. The real elite are the wealthy who can still put us at each others throats after all these millenia. These people can't be trusted either.

[Anonymous No.2710252]

>>2710249
i can respect a conservative if they come at me with something real but rands shit is a flimsy fantasy not worth a piss

[Anonymous No.2710258]

>>2710250
no one reads

no one reads

no one reads your posts

[Anonymous No.2710267]

>Workers aren't to be trusted.

>Bosses aren't to be trusted.

bosses are heavily outnumbered, everyone acts in their own or particular groups best interests, so in the name of utilitarianism: all power to the workers

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.2710264]

>>2710258
You just did

You just did

You probably always do.

[Anonymous No.2710270]

The nine hours of grace from American trolls started six hours ago. Then it's just as shit as 4chan proper when they wake up.

/lit/ has no collective anything.

[Anonymous No.2710272]

>socialist
fucking 17 old cunts

[Anonymous No.2710274]

god, i hate the right wing nuts on /lit/. it's like they're against liberals and feminism because equality is too mainstream an idea for them to adopt.

[Anonymous No.2710277]

>Making the mistake of thinking /lit/ is in any way smarter, nicer or better than the rest of 4chan
Love these guys.

[Anonymous No.2710280]

>>2710267
but workers don't know what their best interest actually is, otherwise they would go school, get a degree and become professionals or business owners instead of wasting their life being peons. basically you only end up being "a worker" by explicitly NOT being able to manage your own self-interest.

[Anonymous No.2710288]

>>2710280
gooby please say im being trolled

[Anonymous No.2710289]

>>2710270
>The nine hours of grace from American trolls started six hours ago

I'm not sure, if feels like they started early today.

[Anonymous No.2710292]

>>2710288
> can't handle the truth

we live in a free society, being working class is a lifestyle choice.

[Anonymous No.2710293]

>>2710274
>MUH FEELINGS

[Anonymous No.2710296]

>>2710292
alright you got me, my jimmies are a bit rustled

[Anonymous No.2710301]

>>2710250
>People aren't to be trusted. Completely.
I fully agree, but I'd rather trust someone more qualified that the average worker. Also, that's not to say the the average bourgeois is more qualified, but that the more qualified tend to be bourgeois.

>>2710267
But what if bosses and workers formed a giant group and worked in its interest.

One just needs a mediator to help ensure that all needs are met.

[Anonymous No.2710302]

>>2710274
Personally I hate egalitarians because they're pushing for genocide

[Anonymous No.2710305]

>>2710292
Actually, being work class implies a low IQ

[Anonymous No.2710310]

>>2710301
> But what if bosses and workers formed a giant group and worked in its interest.

well this is what a "nation" is isn't it? the ruling class and working class together for mutual benefit. too bad international jewrey has managed to undermine national self-interest and now we all are all supposed to be "global citizens" with no solidarity or loyalty (except israel, it's ok to be loyal to them)

[Anonymous No.2710312]

>>2710305
or lazy, i've met some smart working class ppl but they are lazy or have substance abuse problems so chronically underacheive

[Anonymous No.2710316]

>>2710305

that feel when I have a really high IQ but can't seem to get out of working class.

[Anonymous No.2710328]

>>2710301
yeah. The workers hire people more qualified to do certain thngs - accounting, engineering, management etc.
the difference is it is not an autocratic top down ownership, but more democratic as the majority of the people involved are given more chance for input.

not sure what that other poster talking about bourgeois credentialism is getting at.

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.2710333]

>>2710301
Oh sure. This is why I stress complete and competent education for all.

>>2710316
This happens every time.

[Anonymous No.2710334]

>>2710316
it's cuz u waste all ur time on 4chan and other stupid techno-time-wasters. like i was saying, you don't know how to act in your own self-interest, you have no self-control, you're a slave to your animal urges and as such are not qualified for more than to work as a beast of burden.

[Anonymous No.2710336]

Not even going to read this thread, but I'll just put it out there that I generally believe the world would be significantly better had blacks ceased to exist. Also, how on Earth can a far right movement currently exist and in addition, actually affect people? Seeing as the media is entirely liberal. And don't tell me Fox because they're all Zionist puppets.

[Anonymous No.2710337]

>Not being in the distributist, agnostic, nationalist, multicultural elite

How can you call yourself enlightened if you restrict yourself to single parties and movements? You're basically just a well educated moron that can't form his own opinions without a group backing him.

[Anonymous No.2710338]

>>2710316
you're investing your time into the wrong things, you aren't getting out of the working class by reading literature or majoring in lit.

Save, invest and learn a useful trade/skill

>that feel when middle class

[Anonymous No.2710343]

implying iq is the single variable within society that determines class status. amazing.

[Anonymous No.2710345]

>>2710302
That's just a blatant lie. I don't even know how you're connecting the dots on this one.

[Anonymous No.2710348]

>>2710343
80% is genetic, 20% is environmental

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.2710353]

Okay okay okay.

The smartest ones are the ones who leave this high school locker room of a site. We know!

[Anonymous No.2710356]

>>2710345
Sup Schlomo

[Anonymous No.2710358]

>>2710336
yeah, can you imagine how awesome Africa would be if it was turned in to a white continent like America. Can you imagine the boost it would give the global economy to have a second America? Holy shit...

[Anonymous No.2710360]

>>2710338

>>>that feel when people make so many unwarranted assumptions about you.

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.2710361]

>>2710348
No.

[Anonymous No.2710365]

>>2710345
>leftists
>not genociding whites of european heritage

the naïvety

[Anonymous No.2710366]

>>2710348
That seems hard to prove

[Anonymous No.2710368]

>>2710360

>>>that feel when people make both unwarranted and somewhat warranted, but still wrong, assumptions about you.

[Anonymous No.2710373]

>>2710360
Had you done what I wrote in that post you wouldn't be working class, well you would, but not your entire life - I dont know how old you are...

[Anonymous No.2710374]

>>2710337
i was with you until you said nationalist.


and the rest of what said at the end is a trivial complaint. we use these words just to condense our communication. no one assumes everyone is entirely identifiable with one word or political brand

[Anonymous No.2710376]

>>2710338
you're so fucking dadcore. Telling ppl you don't even know that clichéd 'get a useful skill/trade' line.

[Anonymous No.2710379]

>>2710376
and you stink of liberal arts and literature studies in college

[Anonymous No.2710377]

>>2710333
>Oh sure. This is why I stress complete and competent education for all.

As someone who who believes that social Darwinism should organize society, I fully agree.

Without that, it would just be a foolish to believe in.

Also, fantastic film.

[Anonymous No.2710378]

>>2710376
yeah and you're so working class core "awww i just can't get aheead it's not fair all the people who have engineering degrees make more money than me its not faiiiirrrrrr"

[Anonymous No.2710381]

>>2710378
>>2710379
Told

[Anonymous No.2710386]

>>2710377
gahhh that modernist drivel that education is some sort of panacea. Drunk driving? go to a class.....working class? answer 'education' sexual assault? education.

can you get a little less abstract in your reasoning?

[Anonymous No.2710397]

>>2710338
you need to already have money to invest if you want to climb the social ladder. for most people, after expenses, it would take multiple life times to have enough that can be invested to make a profit that's substantial enough to change economic class. class mobility is a myth. capitalism doesn't reward the poor. it gives money to the rich. seriously, it actually works like that. you have a lot of money? here's more money! you have little money? no more money for you!

[Anonymous No.2710400]

>>2710386
> get a professional degree
> earn 100k a year

what's abstract about that?

education isn't the only way out, just the clearest path, but you can start a business, don't need any special training for that, go get a loan, hire some peons to work for you, pay them less than the value of what they produce and wham, bam, you're bourgeois!

but you're not going to do that because you're lazy and would rather whine on the internet.

[Anonymous No.2710402]

>>2710381
When you have to say it....

[Anonymous No.2710404]

>>2710379
pretty much. but this dadcore-education stuff is so deeply functionalist and inherently american-liberal that it's a reductionist solution.

[Anonymous No.2710403]

>>2710386
I think to some extent it is.

I also think you misinterpreted what I said. I purpose of accessible, quality education isn't to help the working class, but to provide a fair playing field for legitimate social Darwinism to play out.

[Anonymous No.2710408]

>>2710397
how did steve jobs end up a billionare then?

[Anonymous No.2710411]

>>2710400
you need money in order to get loans.

d you actually think banks give money to people who need money? hahaha

[Anonymous No.2710415]

>>2710404
you just don't want to admit that's it's that simple. you want to believe that the rich have some secret knowledge and it's all a conspiracy to keep you down, bro, you keep yourself down thinking like that, why would the bourgeois need a conspiracy to oppress you when you do it to yourself?

[Anonymous No.2710421]

>>2710408
by having plenty existing resources to become richer.

there are 'rags to riches' stories which the prevailing ideologues uphold as the norm. but it doesn't happen from poverty. it only happens from already fortunate circumstances.

[Anonymous No.2710422]

>>2710403
Unsolicited advice: instead of saying social darwinism, which has too much baggage, call what you believe in a meritocracy. Meritocracy pretty much seems what you're talking about anyways.

you are very individualistic huh

[Anonymous No.2710420]

>>2710411
the banks gave me money for college so I don't know what you're talking about... and after college you can get money from people besides banks ever heard of "angel investors" or "venture capitalists", yeah, stop making excuses.

[Anonymous No.2710424]

>>2710397
>you need to already have money to invest if you want to climb the social ladder.

It's so easy for working-class entrepreneurs to write a viable business plan and have a loan/grant approved (speaking from experience). The government even has millions put aside to GIVE to budding entrepreneurs for this very purpose.

[Anonymous No.2710427]

>>2710421
he was a guy with working class parents who never went to college, he didn't have any resources

[Anonymous No.2710434]

>>2710420
investors don't invest in just anyone. you need to have a solid business strategy and in order to create that business you need to have the wealth and opportunity it provides

[Anonymous No.2710439]

>>2710434
that makes... no sense. if you have wealth already you wouldn't NEED investors you tard.

[Anonymous No.2710441]

>>2710415
this rags to riches american dream is like entry level Palinesque shit

>>2710421
I see your point, but I think you're overestimating agency, and you over value what already is ie functionalism. But you are dadcorishly practical, i'll give you that.

[Anonymous No.2710446]

>>2710441
you just want to make excuses man, it's pathetic.

[Anonymous No.2710451]

>>2710424
>It's so easy for working-class entrepreneurs to write a viable business plan and have a loan/grant approved

not really you need the opportunity, time and access to social networks and experiences that can formulate that plan and that comes from wealth.

and exactly, where there is opportunity for mobility, it's provided by government, not markets

[Anonymous No.2710452]

>>2710441
> this rags to riches american dream is like entry level Palinesque shit

and this is why working class will always be working class, they have no confidence, they are the ultimate betas, always mad that some "rich guy" took their opportunity. stay beta, working class fag.

[Anonymous No.2710459]

>>2710451
so if you know you need

time: stop whining on 4chan and spend your time on your business

social networks: move to a financial center and start meeting people, if you don't know how, read some books on networking

experiences: yeah, this comes from working towards your goal not bitching about how some rich guy is keeping you down

[Anonymous No.2710473]

I think we're forgetting the big picture here:

If entrepreneurialism and bootstrapping is so effective, then why are literally 50-75% of people across America unable to start their own business, or write their own book, or "pursue their American dream"?

You'll say laziness, but isn't there an inherent flaw in a personal code that accuses literally half the population of laziness?

[Anonymous No.2710477]

God, you guys have no idea what you are talking about. I bet you are all students with no real idea of how the economic world functions.

Private investors and "Angels" will usually invest in something that their accountants believe will break even within four years, recoup expenses and start generating a substantial profit. Banks are also surprisingly willing to lend to businesses in order to boost economic growth, in fact the government has told banks to increase lending to promising entrepreneurs. On top of this the government has piles of money to give away in the form of Grants and bursaries with 0% repayment.

I'm from a working class background and I have no degree. I spent six months writing a business plan and had a 50% grant approved with the rest in the form of a low interest loan with a minimum annual repayment of 6%. I am now running a successful company with an income thats fitting of middle-class status. I also encouraged and helped two of my friends with business outlines. One of which has just taken leasehold of a large factory, the other is in loan approval stage, but looks likely to be joining us.

It is so easy nowadays for somebody with a humble background to become successful. It actually looks now like more working class kids are doing this, while the degree students end up as teachers or with a salaried job.

[Anonymous No.2710480]

>>2710473
well why haven't YOU written a book? is because it's against the law and you'll be sent to a gulag if you try? did you try and a capitalist agent crashed through your window and arrested you? no? then what's stopping you?

[Anonymous No.2710487]

>>2710452
no they'll always be working class because capitalism needs them to be working class. it drains their life. the only people who change their circumstance are those who time money and social network to advance but they're only advancing from fortune to privilege.

>>2710459
yeah hold up and ill magic some money together to buy an inner city flat next to the big shots

[German Girl !!TsY0SxlQ1u8 No.2710491]

Nope, we're not all Marxist Vermin here, although there is some socialism, a reasonable amount that I embrace, as well as atheism, I am one, but I also embrace many far right ideas. I am pretty much a Libertarian of some sort. Communism=Fail

[Anonymous No.2710493]

>>2710473
Inability and luck.

I think those two are much greater factors than laziness.

[Anonymous No.2710500]

>>2710491
exactly, i like some socialist programs if they can give people more opportunities to grow and take risks, for instance, national healthcare would be a huge boost to the american economy, healthcare costs are dragging us down, on the other hand i'm not that opposed to high college costs because then only people who really want it will be there, too many kids going to college just because they don't know what else to do, maybe they'd should take a year or two off and work or travel and then decide if college if for them, the people who really love academia will be ok with paying the price of admission. i think the working class are generally unambitious and not very risk taking or studious but that doesn't mean we should grind them to dust either, if you work 40 hours a week you should have a decent standard of living, but if you want to really live a high lifestyle you're going to have to put in more work than just punching a clock for somebody.

[Anonymous No.2710505]

>>2710480
I AM writing a book, but when I finish it there's not guarantee of it being published.

Just as people ARE being entrepreneurial, but when the business is established there's no guarantee of it being successful. What happens when they go belly up? You blame laziness, but I think there's a systemic problem.

More likely, it goes bankrupt within 5-10 years. see
>http://www.usatoday.com/money/smallbusiness/columnist/abrams/2004-05-06-success_x.htm

>perfectly normal market functions!
>who cares about one family's livelihood, as long as the economy's going up?

[Anonymous No.2710509]

>>2710477
how did you find out about the opportunity? get 6 months free to work on it? you're going to have to explain how your situation is replicable instead of just giving us the standard 'I did it, so why can't anyone else?' that sounds suspiciously like something from marie antoinette

[Anonymous No.2710515]

>>2710491
>tripfag
>nationalist
>attention-whore
>writes like a teenager ("communism=fail")
What are you even doing here?

[Anonymous No.2710517]

>>2710509
i've seen screenshots showing people with 60 or 100 hours logged in Diablo like 3 weeks after it came out...you telling me those people don't have time to make a business plan?

[German Girl !!TsY0SxlQ1u8 No.2710522]

>>2710515
Is there anything about my actual post that you want to comment on? Or are you happy with your argumentum ad hominem?

[Anonymous No.2710523]

>>2710097
I'm a socialist in the sense that it's the least horrible ideology to put my vote towards. I'm an egalitarian in the sense that I think that if we give people roughly the same starting points and opportunity in life the great can truly flourish.

I'm also for anything that makes maintaining a basic life as effortless as possible, so that we may dedicate ourselves to something greater than the mere struggle for survival.

I consider myself mostly a transhumanist utilitarian. Individualism has run its course in the old sense of the word. Personal integrity is of course important, but independence or autonomy in any way has become a romantic myth and nothing more. We are increasingly dependent on one another. Events in Australia influence Greenland, and what goes on in the Amazon affects China as well. We are becoming more and more globalised and interconnected. It's time to come to face with this and realise that the only way to improve your own lot in the long run is improving that of humanity (or perhaps life) in general.

I've come to see such an holistic view of politics and human welfare as essential for a future in which increased technological advancement influences us all.

[Anonymous No.2710527]

I was on /hm/ earlier, I'm convinced it's the least racist board on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.2710530]

>>2710522
>communism=fail
Complaining about ad hominem, are we?
I was just generally repulsed by your post, and don't see how anything of value can be obtained by discussing politics with someone like you.
I know this isn't really a board for such hateful and empty spouts as this, but by gods, lurk more.

[Anonymous No.2710532]

what about /sci/?

[Anonymous No.2710534]

>>2710527
that's cuz bottoms all want huge black cocks to ride and tops want fem asian butts to penetrate

[Anonymous No.2710542]

>>2710530
dude, if she's from Germany maybe she has a better understand of "real life communism" being that half of Germany was Stalinist for decades while your ideas of communism come from some slightly orientalist Mao fantasy.

[Anonymous No.2710537]

I, personally, am a communist.
I wouldn't say that I've gotten the impression that this board is very much inclined towards socialism, though.

[Anonymous No.2710538]

>>2710517
those people are the ones who work. thats how they afford computers and games. but that expenditure and time isn't what presents the opportunity. they fill that time because it isn't significant enough for anything else and just because you stop filling your leisure time with things there's a sudden realisation of an opportunity without any connections. they'll still be forced to think about their working life which they can't walk away from since it pays for their living

[German Girl !!TsY0SxlQ1u8 No.2710547]

>>2710532
Hands down, /Sci/ is the better board.

[Anonymous No.2710548]

>>2710538
dude, so many people have "a day job" when they start...if you want to get ahead you actually have to work hard, what a shocker.

[Anonymous No.2710553]

>>2710542
Woah, that's a tad bit presumptuous, don't you think?
No, I am no maoist, and neither am I a Stalinist.
I am a communist, in the sense that I believe the best form of governemnt would be one with a basis in collective and direct democracy, where all industries are owned collectively.

[Anonymous No.2710555]

>>2710548
"Get ahead" in what sense? The American one?

[Anonymous No.2710556]

>>2710537
>I, personally, am a communist.
>I wouldn't say that I've gotten the impression that this board is very much inclined towards socialism, though.

Yes but you commies say that about the Soviet Union and Red China as well. According to you nothing is sufficiently inclined towards socialism.

[Anonymous No.2710559]

>>2710097
>socialist, atheist
Well, I've got my own beliefs... But I'm not exactly a theist. And I'm not a fucking socialist (nor a right wing fag though).

>>2710099
>niggerbreeding liberals, Zionist Jews, and third wave feminism.
I hate most people but no for this stupid reasons. Nigerbreeding? Why would I give a fuck about someone fucking a nigger? That's just retarded.

[Anonymous No.2710560]

>>2710553
but in capitalism the industries ARE owned collectively! why do you think Apple has decided to start paying a dividend? Because the public employee union pension fund that owns a large percent of Apple stock demanded they do it. See, this is the beauty of capitalism...you can buy a stake in almost any of these companies! Sure, a few are private like Koch Industries but most major corporations are open to you.

[Anonymous No.2710563]

>>2710556
So, you think that Soviet and old China was displays of proper socialism?
You've got to be joking.

[Anonymous No.2710564]

>>2710556
Maybe because those are examples of tyrannies which used communism just as an excuse to dominate violently dominate the society.

[Anonymous No.2710565]

Market socialist and agnostic theist.

[Anonymous No.2710567]

>>2710564
Dude, if communism didn't work in China, one of the most collectivist cultures on Earth, then where, prey tell, do you think it's actually going to work?

[Anonymous No.2710569]

>>2710556
Stalinist/Maoist regimes are to socialism as the Crusades are to Christianity.

[Anonymous No.2710576]

>>2710564
>to violently dominate society

[Anonymous No.2710577]

>>2710569
Yeah, Christianity is shit too, so that argument only serves to convince me further.

[Anonymous No.2710582]

Looks like All the americans got out of church now. this thread is so full of ignorant entry level capitalitist shit.

[Anonymous No.2710586]

>>2710582
uh oh looks like the PIIGS got down begging Germany for handouts and are back online...

[Anonymous No.2710587]

>>2710560
In a communist society, there wouldn't be any owners on top.
The workplace would be a small democracy, where leadership is cycled and decided by all the concerned members of the union.
This would lead to overall higher wages, and a safer working environment, simply because representatives of the workers would front issues that workers care about; such as physical safety, economic security and pension.

Furthermore, as a principle, I don't believe anyone (no matter how hard-working) deserve to have ownership over other human beings' lives. I don't think anyone deserves or need to be rich.

[Anonymous No.2710589]

>>2710582
>huehuehuehuehuehue

[Anonymous No.2710598]

>>2710567
The problem is that even before the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China, both Russia and China had long been a hotbed for authoritarianism.

[Anonymous No.2710599]

>>2710587
but that's how the early days of the Bolshevik revolution were, it started out just like the theory says...but it's unstable as ambitious people start to build power and influence and eventually take over. only the ambitious people are going to run as candidates to run the factory and the lazy workers would rather not have the responsibility and so it starts to sort out out the ambitious from the guys who are happy to punch a clock.

[Anonymous No.2710604]

>>2710598
but without authoritarianism you can't maintain socialism. you need an authoritarian power to hold down the market. just look at all the money america wastes on it's authoritarian war on the narcotics market. it takes a very strong state to suppress the market.

[Anonymous No.2710605]

>>2710599
One of the central tenets of socialism is worker control of the means of production. But that wasn't true in either the Soviet Union or China. The state made all of the decisions rather than having separate unions running their own shit.

[Anonymous No.2710606]

>>2710577
>implying jesus wasn't a bro

[Anonymous No.2710610]

OH MY GOD THIS THREAD WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?!
Это был себе хорошо с самого начала!

[Anonymous No.2710611]

seriously guys, isn't there something more important for you all to be doing? like questioning why chief mouser to the cabinet is a lifelong peerage and not an elected position.

[Anonymous No.2710612]

>>2710605
but without a central authority setting production how are you going to make sure everyone's needs are met? the free market? nope, you just killed the market, now you have to micromanage everything and make sure the guys in the tiolet paper factory are working hard enough to cover the asses of the vodka factory etc.

[Anonymous No.2710620]

>>2710612
Free markets and socialism aren't mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous No.2710626]

>>2710567
Maybe somewhere with advanced technology, industry and infrastructures. Like Marx said. Anyway, I'm not even a socialist.

[Anonymous No.2710634]

>>2710599
There were speckles of democracy in the early days of the Soviet Union, yes, but not complete by a long shot.
Also, most of the people of old Russia were illiterate and uneducated; they had not gone through the phase of capitalism, and were ill-suited to establish a proper regime based on democracy. It also started out as a military coup by a minority, and as such, totalitarianism was seemingly unavoidable.

That said, I wonder if your argument is that it is in human nature to be a dick, and that humans are unable to think beyond the immediate wants of the individual?
Do you think that we HAVE to be competing, and have a society built upon the theme of competition, to function?
I, for one, do not. We are flock-animals, and should also be able to calculate that if we as a group succeed, and if we as a group take care of each other, my future is secured by the safety of the group, simply because it is in everyone's interest.

[Anonymous No.2710651]

>2710626
But why would a place with advanced industry and technology even have a revolution? If a country is rich and providing a high standard of living why would anybody have a revolution? Also Lenin figured Russia was advanced enough when he said "Electrification + Soviets = Communism" so surely Cuba must be advanced enough considering they have all kinds of high technology that couldn't even be dreamed of in 1917...but I give you Cuba outperforms it's neighbords in the Carribean in standard of living but it can't compete with a industrialized capitalist economy. I see communism as a good starting point for building a capitalist economy. The revolution kicks out any imperialists, colonialists,etc. breaks up any major landlords, etc, and gives the government a chance to build infrastructure with no opposition...but eventually you have to open up the economy. it's like some kind of historical dialectic: the agrarian feudal country becomes a communist industrial country which becomes a capitalist industrial country.

[Anonymous No.2710661]

>>2710634
we are a group animal yes but not an insect. there can be solidarity between small groups of people but not 1000s. this is why they break prisons up in to cell blocks of about 50 people. humans can get to know and become comfortable and bonded with groups of 50. but if they just put 2000 prisoner in together they end up fighting because they wouldn't "know" each other.

[Anonymous No.2710667]

>>2710634
no i just think most humans are not ambitious and would rather let somebody else lead them rather than take responsibility. why do you think we have gods? so we don't have to take responsibility. it's in "gods hands" not ours.

[Anonymous No.2710678]

I'm a proud far-rightist, a Protestant Christian (I look at Papists with some distaste, non-Christians as sub-human, Atheists as the scum of the earth) of the most unrepentantly reactionary sort - women are owned by their fathers until sold to their husbands, homosexuality deserves stoning, adultery is sleeping with another man's wife - men cannot "cheat" on women, they are meant to have as many wives as they can get and are free to sleep with as many whores as they like on the side.

I believe a free market is the best way to ensure prosperity, though certain macro-economic decisions must be made on the basis of military and geo-political strategy rather than purely prosperity.

I believe preserving the white, European race is the only way to preserve Western civilization, which is the only *real* civilization on earth. I believe the pursuit of that race's interests is always justifiable.

I would prefer to see a return to a white/european ruled globe and Victorian Imperialism, but if the lesser peoples put up too much of a fuss they should be cut off through a policy of isolationism and gunboat diplomacy until they destroy themselves to such a point that they beg for white rulership.

I could give a fuck about how many brown people died in Afghanistan/Iraq/Vietnam, most of them will be happier dead anyway, living such a miserable excuse for human existence.

I believe the sort of pseudo-intellectual scum you find at /lit/ and infesting the circles of Academia are doing at least as much to destroy Western civilization as the Jew-run media, and that every change in Art - painting, poetry, prose fiction, sculpture, theatre, fashion, Philosophy - since the late Victorian era has been for the worse.

In short, my name is John and I hate every single one of you.

Better dead than red.

[Anonymous No.2710710]

>>2710651
>But why would a place with advanced industry and technology even have a revolution?
Marx was thinking of places like France or England when he started writing his theories. There were social movements too.
>If a country is rich and providing a high standard of living why would anybody have a revolution?
Well, there are still commies nowadays. If everything was perfect for everybody then nobody would complain.
>Lenin figured Russia was advanced enough when he said "Electrification + Soviets = Communism"
He was wrong.
>so surely Cuba must be advanced enough considering they have all kinds of high technology that couldn't even be dreamed of in 1917
That happened after the revolution. Also, a communist party monopolizing the power wasn't what Marx meant by "communism". Fidel Castro isn't the proletariat.
>I see communism as a good starting point for building a capitalist economy.
Well, I can agree with this. Like a redistribution of wealth principle to follow before minimizing the state (like Nozick said)
>The revolution kicks out any imperialists, colonialists,etc. breaks up any major landlords, etc, and gives the government a chance to build infrastructure with no opposition
Pfff... The revolution is the fucked up part. It may kick out corruption, but it may lead to tyrannies (this is what tends to happen). Revolutions are a nice opportunity for bastards like Pol Pot or Stalin to take over control.

[Anonymous No.2710712]

>>2710710
>but eventually you have to open up the economy. it's like some kind of historical dialectic: the agrarian feudal country becomes a communist industrial country which becomes a capitalist industrial country.
Well, Marx talked about the proletariat, not about the german, english or french proletariat. It was meant to happen universally, he never said some kind of autarchy would work, and definitely not one rivaling with the USA and capitalist countries in general.

[Anonymous No.2710725]

>>2710712
wait...but Marx always argued from a strictly materialist perspective in that workers would be better off after the revolution. it was never about "justice" but that it would be economically advantageous for workers to seize their means of production...but since history has shown that communism under-performs capitalism what reason would a worker have to be revolutionary instead of reformist? especially when even you admit there is a high risk of getting a Stalin or Pol Pot for your trouble...by Marx's own materialist logic revolution doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous No.2710726]

>>2710678
>I could give a fuck
You couldn't.

>>2710678
>Better dead.
Fix'd

Good luck seeing how your dreams never come true and your ideals are only followed by a few idiots.

[Anonymous No.2710733]

>>2710726
a wannabe capitalist has better chance of his bourgeois dreams coming true than a communist workers dreams of communism coming true so if I was a speculator I'd have to put my money on the capitalist dickhead, sorry bro, just business nothing personal. lol

[Anonymous No.2710738]

>>2710725
Marx (unlike most contemporary marxists/commies) wasn't a moralist, true. he wouldn't say Pol Pot or Stalin were "bad" for killing people, but he would agree about them being just tyrants, traitors of the proletariat. They only wanted power and used violence to maintain it. They just fooled their people and then killed the ones who complained (the "real" commies, and not just brainwashed fanatics who follow blindly their leader).

[Anonymous No.2710746]

>>2710733
I'm not a commies. And he's not just a capitalist, that would be neoliberal: he's a far-rightist. Also, good luck with the economic recessions in the capitalist side, you better have a rich family.

[Anonymous No.2710750]

>>2710582
>>implying the other half of this thread isn't filled with ignorant, entry-level socialist shit

[Anonymous No.2710754]

>>2710746
>not a commie.

[Anonymous No.2710775]

>>2710620
You can't be free and micromanaged by the government at the same time.

[Anonymous No.2710781]

>>2710746
i'd rather live through a period of creative destruction during the market cycle where people lose their jobs than a period of totalitarian destruction where people lose their lives!

[Anonymous No.2710784]

>>2710733
that goes without saying since we're in capitalism. obviously a total paradigm shift is rarer and more difficult than just working your way through the present system.

but the present system facilitates those already in advantage more than those disadvantaged.
for those in a kind of subjugated position, it's actually easier to band together and operate worker run factories, cooperative schemes and the like than it would be to strike out individually

[Anonymous No.2710789]

>>2710746
>>And he's not just a capitalist, that would be neoliberal: he's a far-rightist.

In 1890 people with my views were called Liberals.

Also, I forgot to mention in my first post, here: >>2710678

That I believe in an Elitist-Democratic/Parliamentary Aristocratic Monarchy, with a strong militaristic streak in its society. Basically, military experience, education-level, and geneological pedigree should all be factors in ability to run for office - which, obviously, should also be restricted to heterosexual white males.

[Anonymous No.2710794]

>>2710781
Faget

[Anonymous No.2710804]

>>2710781
the death rate of capitalism is obscured but it's still high and the death rate of communism is afforded to totalitarianism.

[Anonymous No.2711870]

>>2710097
>far right movement
Actually no, the only thing close to right wing is on /pol/ and they're more Libertarian. But yes we are the multicultural, enlightened, intellectual denizens of this beloved web site. Anyone who is on the internet should be a left-wing technocrat.

[Anonymous No.2711877]

I'm a moderate Catholic and I've been browsing /lit/ for well over a year now.

[Anonymous No.2711892]

why so many answers to such a fucking stupid thread?

[Anonymous No.2712059]

>>2710097
It's funny you use a picture of Stalin in association with praise for multiculturalism when Stalin himself got his big break in commie circles by arguing that a strong nation must have strong social unification, and fingered what we today might call multiculturalism as a disease of Capitalism.

>it is unquestionable that the great empires of Cyrus and Alexander could not be called nations, although they came to be constituted historically and were formed out of different tribes and races. They were not nations, but casual and loosely-connected conglomerations of groups, which fell apart or joined together according to the victories or defeats of this or that conqueror.

>Thus, a nation is not a casual or ephemeral conglomeration, but a stable community of people.

>A nation is a historically constituted, stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, and psychological make-up manifested in a common culture.

>But the persons constituting a nation do not always live in one compact mass; they are frequently divided into groups, and in that form are interspersed among alien national organisms. It is capitalism which drives them into various regions and cities in search of a livelihood. But when they enter foreign national territories and there form minorities, these groups are made to suffer by the local national majorities in the way of restrictions on their language, schools, etc. Hence national conflicts.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03a.htm

[Anonymous No.2713832]

I am an occultist.
>serious kind, not the /x/ kind

[Anonymous No.2714036]

ROOTLESS COSMOPOLITANS!