/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.2664298]

Requesting /lit/'s guide to the Holy Bible. Which are the most badass books in the Bibe?

[Anonymous No.2664300]

>>2664298
Ecclesiastes without any shred of a doubt.

[Anonymous No.2664306]

>>2664300

I'll make that my number 1 to read. Is there a chance I can get 2 more so I can be gone? I've got my copy of da Bibe ready to go.

[Anonymous No.2664308]

Revelations, bro

[Anonymous No.2664315]

Anything OT is usually entertaining. But while your there read Deuteronomy 14:1-6 Thats the part that urges believers to kill people of other religions like Buddhists.

[Anonymous No.2664317]

>>2664315
My bad, it's Deuteronomy 13:1-6

[Anonymous No.2664319]

>>2664306
Proverbs is fun. The Gospels are nice to see what Jesus was up to. I found the rest quite boring.

[Anonymous No.2664320]

>>2664317

This stuff is great and all, but I was hoping to gain some wisdom.

[Anonymous No.2664327]

>>2664317
Dude. Fuck. Read on, it gets worse

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.

Any more hideous bible passages?

[Anonymous No.2664328]

>>2664320
Yeah, good luck with that

[Anonymous No.2664335]

>>2664327
I like the one I think it was in Judges where the Lord sends two bears to maul children for making fun of a bald guy

Oh and the whole Sodom and Gomorrah plot is great when Lot offers his own daughters to the rapists so the rapists won't rape the angels hahaha, man the Bible is hardcore

[Anonymous No.2664340]

Alright well I'm just going to check out Ecclesiastes and Proverbs. Maybe Romans.

[Anonymous No.2664343]

JUDGES
(Pic related: Ehud killing Eglon while he's taking a shit like a dumbass)
"Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his palace and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat, Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly. Even the handle sank in after the blade, and his bowels discharged. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it." - Judges 3:20-22
FUCK YEAH

[Anonymous No.2664347]

>>2664335
>Oh and the whole Sodom and Gomorrah plot is great when Lot offers his own daughters to the rapists so the rapists won't rape the angels.

Not only that. Lot and his family were the only people worth saving. As soon as they leave the wife turns around and gets turned to salt, and both daughters get Lot drunk and rape him. Great judgement there God.

[Anonymous No.2664349]

>>2664298
The Book of Job is overall a very good read but it gets a bit preachy(no pun intended) during the middle section.

[Anonymous No.2664361]

>>2664340
Don't read Romans, just stick with the Gospels, you won't get anything by Paul unless you are interested.

[Anonymous No.2664367]

>>2664335
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bar3GOzDNzg
"NOONE CAN FUCK MY STRANGE GUESTS"

[Anonymous No.2664444]

>>2664367
My sides. My poor sides.

[Anonymous No.2664445]

>2012
>touching the bible

ishyggidity

>2012
>making excuses about how the Bible is relevant to culture and literature in a non-religious way

ishighigidty

[Anonymous No.2664450]

>>2664445

You don't think that the bible is a significant part of Western literature?

[Anonymous No.2664452]

>>2664450

what do you mean by "significant"?

[Anonymous No.2664458]

>>2664452

By "significant" I mean that it is the cornerstone of Western literature.

[Anonymous No.2664460]

>>2664452

It's influenced a shit ton of lit

[Anonymous No.2664463]

>>2664458

>significant, cornerstone
>defines "significant" using a more vague and unfitting term


I can imagine what you are trying to say, but it's still incorrect. Elaborate

[Anonymous No.2664467]

Judges is badass.

[Anonymous No.2664469]

>>2664460

>influenced

It still has no literary value.

[Anonymous No.2664471]

Paradise Lost

[Anonymous No.2664473]

>>2664467
This. Plus some of the Anti-Pagan parts of the historical books are just cool. (2 Kings 10:27).

[Anonymous No.2664476]

Ezekiel.

Fun tip - read it from the point of view that this is a man suffering schizophrenia. The book it great, but it becomes some much more compelling.

Also, Job, Lamentations and yeah, Ecclesiastes.

[Anonymous No.2664477]

>>2664473
2 Kings 10:27 "They demolished the sacred stone of Baal and tore down the temple of Baal, and people have used it for a latrine to this day."

[Anonymous No.2664478]

>>2664367
Oh man, I fucking forgot about these! Oh man. George Washington, oh man. Fucked the shit out of bears.

[Anonymous No.2664481]

>>2664445
>2012
>hurr durr im an athiest bible is for sheep and fags.
>not recognizing it's the single most important book in western literature
>not acknowledging that there os some bad ass material in the bible.

/lit/ I am dissapoint

[Anonymous No.2664485]

I once heard part of the King James bible was mistranslated deliberately to give out more pagan hate than was even in the bible to begin with. Any truth in this?

[Anonymous No.2664494]

>>2664481

>not recognizing it's the single most important book in western literature


no book is important universally, importance is subjective

literature itself isn't important either, it's a hobby some people enjoy.

So there are two levels of subjectivity hindering the 'importance' of the bible.

Moreover, simply being in western culture endows you with enough biblical knowledge, any further reading of the bible is simply a waste of time, or a matter of personal preference, like masochism or gaining weight for fun, etc...

[Anonymous No.2664501]

>>2664469

its value is that it can be used to better appreciate the lit it influenced

[Anonymous No.2664511]

>>2664501

that's not how literature works.

a books value is derived from itself, not from things outside it.

You might as well tell me that using your book as a door stopper makes you appreciate it even more...sorry, no.

[Anonymous No.2664513]

>>2664463

"Cornerstone" is by no means a vague term. You must not know the definition of the word. I will let you look that up on your own time.

The Bible is what taught many people to write, what trained them to read, what inspired their imaginations. Many classic tails lift huge parts of the Bible for their stories, or recycle biblical concepts and ideas (Moby Dick, perhaps?). Allusions to Biblical books and verses are ubiquitous in literature, even now. The rules laid down in the Bible inspire moral tales like The Scarlet Letter, while the classic story of the flood has set permanently a motif of natural disaster stories in literature. The Bible popularized love stories (King David), and it established a standard for the importance of family and lineage. Quite often the names of characters in literature are biblical in origin, and the meanings of those names has significance in interpreting the message of the novel. The Bible certainly popularized underdog stories with David and Goliath. Dante's Divine Comedy needs no explanation of its biblical influence. You simply cannot claim to be well-read if you have not read the bible, nor can you claim to even superficially understand literature. At the very least, you must respect the Bible for its importance, if not for its message (to which I do not subscribe). A disrespect or lack of regard for the Bible is a clear sign of ignorance.

Try to see through your angst.

[Anonymous No.2664516]

>>2664501

then you are appreciating its religiousity, not its art or literature

[Anonymous No.2664518]

>>2664485
>the King James bible was mistranslated deliberately
That particular translation was commissioned by King James I, and I doubt he'd hire translators that would disagree with the state church. They also were probably afraid to translate it certain ways, given the possibility of being beheaded.

>to give out more pagan hate
I don't know about this. Half of the Bible is condemnation of Pagan morality and ideas, it didn't really need much more hate.

[Anonymous No.2664519]

>>2664494

To put it a bit more simply:

"Western" literature does not exist without the Bible. Period.

[Anonymous No.2664522]

>>2664513

>The Bible is what taught many people to write, what trained them to read...

>oppress entire civilizations, prohibit commoners from reading, only the high ruling priest class can read it

>it taught people to read

lmfao, please pick up a history book, and smack yourself with it

[Anonymous No.2664526]

>>2664519

>"Western" literature does not exist without the Bible. Period.

This is a meaningless and empty sentence. Full stop.

[Anonymous No.2664536]

ITT:

One samefag Angsty Ultra-Atheist

[Anonymous No.2664541]

>>2664518

Old testament or new? I seem to recall Jesus being more open minded as long as you worshiped God etc etc.

This may or may not be derived by the fact I'm seriously considering Wicca as a religion due to my frustration with the church and being unable to find any other faith I agree with. I went to Catholic school, so my view of the Bible may be biased. I really should just sit down and read the whole thing instead of just parts of it.

[Anonymous No.2664545]

>>2664536

not even atheist, or theist or agnostic
im just not retarded like most of /lit/ who thinks the bible is important in anything other than a history or theology class

[Anonymous No.2664554]

If you don't see beauty in Ecclesiastes, Jonah, John, or Paul's letters to the Corinthians, I feel sorry for you.

You don't have to be a jerk about it.

[Anonymous No.2664559]

>>2664522

Most of the children who were ever born in the West, assuming that they could read, were instructed to read their Bible every day. Most small children know this.

The Bible did not prohibit people from reading, that is a preposterous assumption. The same is true for the idiotic assertion that it oppressed anyone. I have a book about the fall and rise of capitalism in the 20th century sitting next to me as I write this. It is making me neither richer, nor poorer. It is just a book. Once the Bible was translated in to the various Western vernaculars (depending on the populace), children everywhere honed their reading skills (and their imaginations and storytelling skills) by reading the bible.

It is ridiculous that you harbor a grudge against a book because you feel as if it has made you or anyone else a victim. I want you to read the previous sentence again. You are an irrational person. Most Christians, Jews and Muslims that I have met have been more logical and rational than you. Read that sentence again. Now, go to the top of this paragraph, and read the whole thing again. Let it sink in.

[Anonymous No.2664565]

>>2664522

>the bible kept people from reading

[Anonymous No.2664566]

>>2664526

It's true though. The Bioble is a major common point of reference for western literature, and also a foundational text in the English language (the KJV).

[Anonymous No.2664583]

>>2664541
You mean you are struggling to choose which imaginary tyrant to impose upon yourself?

[Anonymous No.2664589]

>>2664541
>I seem to recall Jesus being more open minded
Matthew 4:10 "Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only"

Jesus was the first person in the Bible to mention Hell. Before, the Jews just thought evil people died and stayed there. The whole "Jesus was a hippy" idea is historical revisionism, made by the Victorians, Leftists and Hippies.

>I'm seriously considering Wicca as a religion
I really advise you not to. Wicca is just a consumerist take on early Germanic Paganism. It doesn't hold to many of the real principles of original paganism, because they are stupid.

[Anonymous No.2664597]

>>2664541
>I seem to recall Jesus being more open minded
Matthew 4:10 "Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only"

Jesus was the first person in the Bible to mention Hell. Before, the Jews just thought evil people died and stayed there. The whole "Jesus was a hippy" idea is historical revisionism, made by the Victorians, Leftists and Hippies.

>I'm seriously considering Wicca as a religion
I really advise you not to. Wicca is just a consumerist take on early Germanic Paganism. It doesn't hold to many of the real principles of original paganism, because they are silly principles.

[Anonymous No.2664602]

OP here. What the hell guys.

[Anonymous No.2664600]

>>2664559

>The Bible did not prohibit people from reading, that is a preposterous assumption.

Except it is historically accurate.
There were many special ecclesiastical tribunal set up in the 1100-1300s that banned commoners from reading the bible, possessing it, or its translations.
(i.e council of Toulouse in 1200s)

This was also a method of weeding out different interpretations of the bible, anyone with a different translation was deemed a heretic and punished. The Church wanted a monopoly on the bible, and killed to get it.

>The same is true for the idiotic assertion that it oppressed anyone.

The bible is a blue-print for oppression, once people start believing in it, discrimination is born.

[Anonymous No.2664605]

>>2664559
The Bible may,indeed does, contain a warrant for trafficking in humans, for ethic cleansing, for slavery, for bride-price, and for indiscriminate massacre, but we are not bound by any of it because it was put together by crude, uncultured human mammals.

[Anonymous No.2664609]

>>2664565

>hasn't heard of the dark ages

historically speaking, literacy, science, and everything intellectual was stunted by the appearance of the bible.

[Anonymous No.2664617]

>>2664602
lol

[Anonymous No.2664623]

this thread is obscene and disgusting on count of all the bible-talk

[Anonymous No.2664624]

>>2664545
>>2664526
0/10 from most of your arguments you essentially are trying to either troll or be ultra edgy. The bible is a huge literary work by itself which has parts of it like the Song of the Sea that date to times pre 1000 B.C. its composition and stories reflect hundreds of years of societal change and show how a nation of people define itself over the years. It gives us the stories, prayers, and laws of a society that had huge amounts of toil and hardship to create a land out of a hostile arid geography between the world's superpowers. It can stand on its own simply because of the age of the material and the subject matter, and as for your argument that "a work of literature must stand on its own" that is complete bullshit. No work of literature that is notable does that all borrow and cause people to borrow otherwise they are lost to time. The bible and its stories are used by ever author from Augustine to Dostoyevsky, to Bulgakov. And the King James Bible is one of the three great works that defined our language. It has been a collection of books that almost every western author has read and almost ever author uses in some way or another. It is lit and has a great place in it, As for OP I suggest reading either the entire New Oxford annotated or the King James 400th anniversary reprint.

[Anonymous No.2664632]

>>2664624

A book can borrow and make all the references it likes, but at the end of the day it must stand on its own, and be judged by its own merits.

[Anonymous No.2664636]

>>2664597

I'm aware parts of it are consumerist, just like the Christian church is. Just like all religions are nowadays.

I dunno, maybe I'm just going through that "Crisis of Faith" phase where in an attempt to make the Universe make sense in my head, I'm trying to find something that adds up to me. I've always had a viewpoint on how things work in the world and the universe and Wicca is the only one I've found that seems to cover them all. I admit it's a shadow of Germanic Paganism, but I've considered the possibility of societal change over the years, just as Christianity has changed over the centuries also. So I don't know, at the end of the day I know what I believe, and I believe that all religions are, at the end of the day, down to interpretation. What I can't stand are atheists and agnostics who have a stick up their butts about people who DO believe in a higher power being idiots. It doesn't make them much better in my eyes than zealots who refuse to even CONSIDER their faith might have failings. I also believe that if I do believe in 'god', I shouldn't have to get down on my knees every Sunday in church to do so. If God is supposed to be all loving, why would he care HOW I choose to worship him? Personally, I think that's just the churches way of getting bums on seats on Sundays. Keep in mind all of this comes from years of Catholic school where questioning the Bible and the Church in general got you dirty looks.

[Anonymous No.2664638]

ITT: /lit/ got trolled by a teenager

[Anonymous No.2664641]

>>2664636

>2012
>using contrived human ideologies to make sense of the world


all of my why

[Anonymous No.2664642]

>>2664609

I can only speak for 'literary', since that's my field. But there were many great works produced during the so-called dark ages (we typically call them the middle ages, now. That name is also something of a disservice, but it's progress).

Gawain, Beowulf, Morte Darthur, Roman de Brut. I could go on.

[Anonymous No.2664646]

My guide: Read the whole thing, in whatever order you want, but don't read it like a fundie protestant. Always remember the following, which hold for whether you're Christian or not:
1) The Bible is not A book, it's an anthology.
2) The Bible was not written by God, obviously, but by different people in different times. If you're Christian, you MAY opt for being divinely -inspired-. Otherwise, merely inspired.
3) The Old Testament is a collection of writings that Jews believed essential to their tradition -at the time of- the Babylonian Exile. There are other texts, sometimes even referenced in the OT books, that we will never know of because they're gone. The same is true for the NT, but instead of Jews it was a collective of Christians (Jewish and non).
4) tl;dr 3; Jewish and Christian religion is derived from -tradition- not from -text-. So, when you're reading, don't read it as a tome of easily understandable commandments that everyone must follow to the letter so as to be holy vigilantes, like the chuckle heads earlier in this thread do.

When you're done reading it, go ahead and read it again. And again.

My personal favorites:
Genesis
Ecclesiastes
Job
The Canonical Gospels
Revelations

Ecclesiastes, Job, and Mark being my top three. Shit's cash.

[Anonymous No.2664650]

>>2664632
I guess that means you are a troll you literally read nothing of what I said about why it was important.

[Anonymous No.2664651]

I think ZKD was right. The creator of this world is demented.

Possible the same is true about the creator of this board.

[Anonymous No.2664655]

>>2664642

and Riefenstahl also made amazing propoganda films during Nazi germany, that many construe as "art" these days...

[Anonymous No.2664656]

>>2664641

Is it wrong that I want to consider all aspects before I form my complete views?

[Anonymous No.2664659]

>>2664646
Why Mark? I liked Luke for "historical accuracy", John and Matthews for the parables, Mark didn't really have anything that was already covered by those three gospels

[Anonymous No.2664661]

>>2664646

Thanks for this rational and level headed remark. You are a guiding voice here in a /lit/ thread apparently related to religion.

[Anonymous No.2664664]

>>2664656

if you have to look through a bunch of distorted lenses before you realize they are distorted, fine

[Anonymous No.2664671]

>>2664655

Please don't be obtuse. State your points clearly.

Are you saying every work we consider worthwhile from that period is propaganda (and for that reason, invalid)?

[Anonymous No.2664676]

>>2664664

I already KNOW they're distorted, which is why I want to cover them before I decide anything.

>>2664646

This guy knows what's up.

[Anonymous No.2664689]

>>2664671

I'm saying don't ignore or downplay the horrors and damage that biblical ideology created just because there were some nice stories written in the dark ages

[Anonymous No.2664691]

>>2664636
>I've always had a viewpoint on how things work in the world and the universe and Wicca is the only one I've found that seems to cover them all.
I'd be interested to hear those views. Frankly, I couldn't imagine myself in any kind of neo-pagan belief system. It's too mystical and anti-traditionalist (Western tradition) for me.

>If God is supposed to be all loving, why would he care HOW I choose to worship him?
As a conservative Christian, I think you are overstating God's love. Love doesn't imply he accepts thing that are inconsistent with our proper nature. We were made to worship God, and not anything else.

>Personally, I think that's just the churches way of getting bums on seats on Sundays.
I don't think Church is the essence of Christianity. It's certainly part, but worship is also private, and 'right living' is an everyday concept. I know a couple good Christians who rarely go to Church.

[Anonymous No.2664693]

>>2664691
>As a conservative Christian, I think
>I think

[Anonymous No.2664695]

>>2664689
your argument is so shitty it's not even an argument.
You are stating a fact. And it has nothing to do with literature or the Bible itself.

A couple of bishops suppressed everyone during a brief period in history does not mean Bible by itself stunted literary growth.
That's like saying capitalism is bad because it doesn't work in third world countries.

[Anonymous No.2664697]

>>2664691

>Love doesn't imply he accepts thing that are inconsistent with our proper nature.

>he's speculating about how god works

lol how arrogant are christians these days?

[Anonymous No.2664706]

>>2664695

when did literature prosper? during the "dark ages" or after "the enlightenment"?

of course the bible is going to spawn some literature and some shit is going to squeeze through its evil grasp...that doesn't mean it promotes literature or is positive, it just means that DESPITE IT people were still able to make some art...the same can't be said for science or liberty, they were severely hindered

think about it you stupid shit

[Anonymous No.2664711]

>>2664697
Is that more arrogant than speculation about something else?

[Anonymous No.2664714]

>>2664689
because greco-romans, pagans, other semitic literature, african states, east asian culture, Central Asian steppe cultures, meso-american states, aboriginal tribes and Indo-Iranian nations where clearly the higher ground and never lead to atrocities, perversions, mass killings, human sacrifice, inequality, or the decline of previous states.

[Anonymous No.2664720]

>>2664706

What do you mean by 'prosper'?

[Anonymous No.2664721]

>>2664691

My views are lengthy and I don't want to clutter the board up any further, but they can be condensed down into the idea of 'balance'. I've noticed almost all religions tend to paint a very black and white scenario, "This is bad, this is good. This is what you should be doing". The problem with that is that good and evil are subjective, there's also the concept of mercy to consider and so forth. Thus I believe writing anything off as objectively BAD is something that should be avoided, the act itself isn't 'wrong', but the intent behind it and the person may be. If you have no justification for your actions, then it's your own problem if it goes awry. From what I've read, Wicca is the closest thing to this although there may be better ones out there. I'm not really into the theological side of it, which is ironic considering also from what I've read one doesn't NEED to believe in all of it to be considered a Wiccan, much like how I'm sure not every Christian believes ALL of what is preached.

What I was referring to with gods love is this, what Christianity preaches at the core is 'be a good person', 'be nice to people'. Sure there's a lot of conflicting opinions woven in, but I don't see how me simply being a 'good person' would get me hurled into the pits of hell for not getting down on my knees and begging forgiveness. Wasn't there a section of Hell reserved for that way of thinking in Dante's Inferno?

And don't be me wrong, I'm not painting Christianity with a broad brush. To put it simply, I don't have a problem with the essence of it, I have a problem with it's 'fan club', the church to be specific. Thank you for being polite, I understand I may sound naive or uninformed, which is why I'm trying to learn.

[Anonymous No.2664718]

guns don't kill people, people kill people

ya but guns help

the same goes for the bible, the bible doesn't oppress entire civlizations, but it sure fucken helps

[Anonymous No.2664719]

>>2664706
LOL you're just sad you either forgot what your original argument was or doesn't know which board you are on and just started shitposting. Go to /sc/ or /pol/ if you do not wish to discuss literature

[Anonymous No.2664729]

>>2664721
Read C.S.Lewis' Mere Christianity, it either clears up your confusion or you'll fully disagree. Either way it helps you understand yourself better

[Anonymous No.2664725]

>>2664711
>Is that more arrogant than speculation about something else?

yes, yes it is

speculating about things within the universe is less arrogant than speculating about things outside space and time

the further and more absurd something is, the more arrogant you have to be to claim some sort of knowledge about it

[Anonymous No.2664732]

>>2664659

Mark is slightly older and I like it's more minimalistic telling of Christ's life and mission. I feel like it's the most "honest" of the Gospels in its portrayal of the Christ, but being that it's (probably) older than the others admittedly influences my feelings on that. The Matthew and Luke are cool too, I'm just kinda partial to Mark.

[Anonymous No.2664741]

>>2664732
How do you feel about Paul's letters? I see you didn't mention any in your favourites

[Anonymous No.2664743]

>>2664720

>What do you mean by 'prosper'?

legal freedom to write what you believe, read what you wish, publish what you can, share ideas with whom you want, etc...

literature really flourished after the 1600s, Don Quixote and up, after the Enlightenment...1700s+

Not during the time of inquisitions and the dark ages-- the bible infected everyone's mind and life

[Anonymous No.2664747]

>>2664719

>mad that he can't refute that the Dark Ages were shit for literature and the Enlightenment promoted real literature, science, freedom, and so on

[Anonymous No.2664748]

>>2664743
>the bible infected everyone's mind and life
Seems like you don't know anything about the dark ages.
90% of the people did not know how to read or write, the Church infected everyone's mind and life, the Bible and what its content had nothing to do with the political ambitions of the Church.

[Anonymous No.2664752]

Hey lit I'm an atheist too and a proud member of stormfront deh buybull is made by jews it even says so! that want to make themselves and their god all powerfull. it has no value as literature because its story is shit and singul handedly caused the dark ages because the jews wanted to get rid of the romans and cause a dark age so they could be free. And it worked!! YOU LITERARY FAGGOTS MADE IT WORK. you still read ut you bought its bullshit as 'art' and it fooled you all into buying Jewish zombie values. REAL WHITE MEN don't need the jewish dictators we have science and iq and the unieverse to have with all of us so we can take it back from the so to do and win.

[Anonymous No.2664761]

>>2664721
>Thus I believe writing anything off as objectively BAD is something that should be avoided, the act itself isn't 'wrong', but the intent behind it and the person may be.
I've never been able to accept this idea. Do you think the Holocaust would be good if it had the proper intent? Historical acts like the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem Witch trials were partially motivated by a desire to purify the people of immoral behavior, yet they were still murder.

>I don't see how me simply being a 'good person' would get me hurled into the pits of hell for not getting down on my knees and begging forgiveness.
My perspective on this: I think we're all flawed in a very deep way, so much so that no one can really be 'good'. We still have an evil nature, and can't really become good ourselves. Our only hope of salvation is by asking God to restore our goodness, which he'll do in the next life.

Romans 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one"

>I understand I may sound naive or uninformed
You don't sound like either.

[Anonymous No.2664762]

>>2664748

refer to this

>>2664718

[Anonymous No.2664764]

>>2664741
>>2664676

Pic related, couldn't find ohgosh.jpg.

>>2664661

Most people HATE Paul but I didn't leave him out because of any ill feeling. I like what I've read of "Paul's" writings and I want to get into some good texts about him, his theology and guidance of the religion, but I like the others I listed much better.

[Anonymous No.2664767]

>>2664761
>implying killing jews and removing kebab is not good.

[Anonymous No.2664769]

>>2664764

Sorry, I got my links wrong. last paragraph was for >>2664741

[Anonymous No.2664771]

No need. It's a very short read, and it's right here. This is the most badass part of the Bible:

http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=KjvGene.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts
/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=34&division=div1

[Anonymous No.2664780]

>>2664693
lol

[Anonymous No.2664813]

>>2664747

Dude, the "Dark Ages" never happened. That was a ridiculous slander that later ages made up.

[Anonymous No.2664819]

>>2664813
Agreed bitches don't know about my rise of Nation States, competition theory, Aquinas beginning scholasticism, the University being built and the rise of better ways of archiving. Also Byzantines. Fuck Dark Age myth.

[Anonymous No.2664820]

>>2664813

>ridiculous slander made up

oh...like the Holocaust? ya?

you're one of those ehh

[Anonymous No.2664825]

>>2664820

No, sir/ma'am, I am not a historical revisionary nor White nationalist scum.

[Anonymous No.2664826]

>>2664820

[Anonymous No.2664833]

>>2664819

they were dark ages in terms of massive social suppression, no freedoms, kings and popes ruled everything, citizens weren't allowed to own land, everyone was poor as fuck, 2 out of 3 kids died at birth, life expectancy was like 35, or 50 if you survived to 20years old.

Superstition ruled the minds of everyone, science was heretical, even pantheism was heretical lol...
how far do you wanna go back? this is only the 1500s-1600s...

the further back you go, the more insane and terrible it gets.

I think of the dark ages as, the fall of rome, up until the Enlightenment followed by industrial revolution.

Basically if popes and kings ruled using religion, everything was shit

[Anonymous No.2664838]

>religion
>only atheists can know peace from this hell

[Anonymous No.2664841]

>>2664833
>implying women didn't have a shitton more rights than the eras directly after the "dark" ages.

[Anonymous No.2664845]

>>2664833

But that's completely fucking wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages

[Anonymous No.2664848]

>>2664845
But haven't you heard? Religion is evil and everything was shit.

[Anonymous No.2664849]

>>2664833

>Basically if popes and kings ruled using religion, everything was shit

Systems of government influenced by the 'enlightenment' are shit.

[Anonymous No.2664861]

>>2664845
>>2664845
>But that's completely fucking wrong.

No, none of it is wrong. It's all facts

The only thing that is debate is how to "LABEL" those shitty times from 400ad to 1700ad, basically when christianity was thriving everyone was being raped.

Those are the dark ages, thats what they used to be called, im fine with that term. The facts still remain, those times were terrible for humanity

[Anonymous No.2664871]

>>2664848

>No, none of it is wrong. It's all facts

getaloadofthisguy.jpg

Here's something on your level, educate yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/show?p=s-Gqsjg9y-8

[Anonymous No.2664873]

>>2664833
Not so, in the dark ages several states where able to get off there asses and be made se Rus, Livonia, scandinavia, Germany etc. Popes and Kings fought for power then and before that but guess what? They kept the Jews in check and didn't take any shit from them. They also didn't believe their own bullshit because the popes where clearly sexually active and the kings gave no head to the Jewish lies, all people hated Jews but the faggot nigger kike Augustine made people not kill them. So they didn't Dark ages where great and so where the enlightement and the Industrial revolution because we finally started to rebel even against all of the restrictions the Jews had put on us and enslave niggers and go oversees and we finally started to remove them but ever since 1918 with the kike lenin the culture of athiesm has been tainted with the liberal bullshit of not eliminating the undermensh hitler was our last hope.
At least Europe was entirely white.

[Anonymous No.2664877]

>>2664693
HAHAHA! Get it? Because conservatives and Christians are dumb! They're not about facts and science like us secular humanist liberals who believe that race is a social construct and humanity can be perfected through social engineering.

[Anonymous No.2664885]

>>2664693
HAHAHA! Get it? Because conservatives and Christians are dumb! They're not about facts and science like us secular humanist liberals who believe that race is a social construct and humanity can be perfected through social engineering.

By the way, I'm an atheist, but I'll take a conservative Christian like Dostoevsky over most of the self-congratulatory morons who call themselves atheists nowadays.

[Anonymous No.2664888]

>>2664885

[Anonymous No.2664896]

>>2664888
I guess China, the Middle East, and other areas in the world didn't exist during that time.

[Anonymous No.2664898]

>>2664888

>idiot makes up a graphic that means nothing
>it LOOKS scientific so it must be

Are you underage or trolling?

[Anonymous No.2664901]

>>2664888
>thinks it's possible to quantify something like "scientific advancement" and plot in on a graph

I bet you've studied the history of science extensively.

[Anonymous No.2664904]

>>2664871

that's almost as bad as those "science" shows about aliens and quantum physics

tv documentaries really are terrible, there might have been exceptions here and there, some prosperous farms

but if you look at averages, they were living in shit conditions, extremely unhealthy, poor, had no rights, couldn't own land or their homes, and were taxed to death

[Anonymous No.2664908]

>>2664896

middle east only had like 100years of sanity, when it adopted Greek Socratic values

their golden age ended as islam became more powerful and dogmatic

Christianity didn't invade China back then did it? not to such a high degree anyway, just some missionaries here and there

[Anonymous No.2664911]

>>2664904
Cite your sources bro

[Anonymous No.2664912]

>>2664904

>that's almost as bad as those "science" shows about aliens and quantum physics

Wow.

[Anonymous No.2664916]

>>2664908

>middle east only had like 100years of sanity, when it adopted Greek Socratic values

>their golden age ended as islam became more powerful and dogmatic

This is completely incorrect. The Middle East is my field of study; step to me.

[Anonymous No.2664918]

Atheist here. As expected, I enjoyed Ecclesiastes and Job. For the new testament, I pick the sermon on the mount (the five discourses of Mathew).

[Anonymous No.2664923]

>>2664916
>>2664908

WAIT, WAIT, I HAVE POPCORN SOMEWHERE

[Anonymous No.2664929]

>>2664911

>cite your sources

have you read ANY economic history text?

look at the average income, average life expectancy + infant mortality of the population

look at what rights they had (lol) they were basically owned by lords.

look at how free they were to associate, move around, publish, import/export, etc...

http://books.google.ca/books?id=VL_6X5zWOokC&pg=PA47&dq=&hl=en&redir_esc=y#v=onepage
&q&f=false

>"life expectancy was 35, and 2/3 children died before age 4"

ya those were awesome times
HURR DURR THANKS BBC DOCUMENTARY I WISH I WAS A PEASANT

educate yourself

[Anonymous No.2664938]

>>2664327
>Any more hideous bible passages?

even though i think quoting OT for lulz is a bit inane, i just came across this one in reading and feel the need to share:

7But God was displeased with this thing, and he struck Israel. 8And David said to God, “I have sinned greatly in that I have done this thing. But now, please take away the iniquity of your servant, for I have acted very foolishly.” 9And the Lord spoke to Gad, David’s seer, saying, 10“Go and say to David, ‘Thus says the Lord, Three things I offer you; choose one of them, that I may do it to you.’” 11So Gad came to David and said to him, “Thus says the Lord, ‘Choose what you will: 12either three years of famine, or three months of devastation by your foes while the sword of your enemies overtakes you, or else three days of the sword of the Lord, pestilence on the land, with the angel of the Lord destroying throughout all the territory of Israel.’ Now decide what answer I shall return to him who sent me.” 13Then David said to Gad, “I am in great distress. Let me fall into the hand of the Lord, for his mercy is very great, but do not let me fall into the hand of man.” [cont.]

[Anonymous No.2664944]

>>2664916 The Middle East is my field of study; step to me.

then you should know once* Al Ghazali gained fame and his ideas supressed Aristotle, islam became fundamentalist and the middle east turned to shit. around 1100ad?

ya so...the graph stands

[Anonymous No.2664946]

>>2664938
[cont.]

14So the Lord sent a pestilence on Israel, and 70,000 men of Israel fell. 15And God sent the angel to Jerusalem to destroy it, but as he was about to destroy it, the Lord saw, and he relented from the calamity. And he said to the angel who was working destruction, “It is enough; now stay your hand.” And the angel of the Lord was standing by the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite. 16And David lifted his eyes and saw the angel of the Lord standing between earth and heaven, and in his hand a drawn sword stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces. 17And David said to God, “Was it not I who gave command to number the people? It is I who have sinned and done great evil. But these sheep, what have they done? Please let your hand, O Lord my God, be against me and against my father’s house. But do not let the plague be on your people.”

[Anonymous No.2664947]

>>2664938

it's not inane when people actually believe this is the word of God.

[Anonymous No.2664949]

>>2664932
This is completely incorrect. The Middle East is my field of study; step to me.

[Anonymous No.2664951]

>>2664929

>A Concise History of the United States
>Page is unavailable

Yes, yes... Quite.

[Anonymous No.2664960]

>>2664953
>>2664949
>>2664956

You are THIS fucking mad.

[Anonymous No.2664963]

>>2664960

he's just a shitty pasta artist, probably the guy claiming he studied linguistics in every post

[Anonymous No.2664968]

>>2664951

I can access the book fine

the section is on England, 1600s

[Anonymous No.2664975]

>>2664960
I wouldn't say I'm mad. Just step to my level, bro. What are you thinking is you're not getting anywhere unless you step to my level, bro.

[Anonymous No.2664978]

>>2664929

What leads you to believe that Christianity was the reason for these problems? Also, is it evident that living conditions were better in the preceding ages-- that is, for everyone, not just the wealthy and powerful?

Good luck trying to argue that Christianity caused the collapse of the Roman Empire. If anything, Christendom (which =/= Christianity and, as others have stated, wasn't a product of the Bible) gave order to lands previously overrun by primitive tribes. I thought this was something most people learned in high school.

Also, I know this is a discussion about /lit/, but you know there was this thing called the Renaissance which preceded the Enlightenment and produced some of the most incredible artwork ever created-- much of which was religious in nature. Also, most of your beloved Enlightenment thinkers were Christians and believed in the Bible, often in the same way modern conservative Christians do.

But please, go on. Your non sequiturs, vague arguments, and edgy "religion is bad reddit says so" attitude amuse me. And even if you're trolling, I'd rather talk about his stuff with a troll than discuss stupid shit with sincere people.

[Anonymous No.2664997]

>>2664978
But it wasn't just the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people as witches, and the abduction of unbaptized children, and the excruciating mental suffering in the western world. Think of all the pain caused by missionaries bringing god and diseases to African and south American cultures and taking away the contraceptives.

[Anonymous No.2664998]

>>2664947
yes, true.

i've been interested in the Bible lately, and as i live in a fairly Christianist-saturated town i thought, why not read w/ some local Christianists--join a local Bible study. but that was a bad idea, apparently, as they have a few preconceived notions about it: 1) everything it says is true, 2) there are no contradictions, and any perceived contradiction is just a fault of understanding its meaning, and 3) everything in it is basically accurate in meaning & message to original source material. this creates some problems in their interpretation of it ... i was trying to study w/ a student of the local (unaccredited) Bible college, in fact a senior undergrad Bible studies major, and found that he was completely unaware of the notion/classification of Synoptic gospels.

anyway, tl;dr: don't study the Bible with Christianists.

[Anonymous No.2665004]

>no freedoms in the dark ages
>mfw Americans define freedom as choosing what you buy

oh lawdy lawds. arguably there was more freedom. you could go be a fucking wandering adventurer and smoke some find dank and call yourself an alchemist. there wasn't a police force wandering the villages 24/7


there was a shit ton of more freedoms, back before big government

[Anonymous No.2665008]

>>2664944
>then you should know once* Al Ghazali gained fame and his ideas supressed Aristotle, islam became fundamentalist and the middle east turned to shit. around 1100ad?

...No. The Muslim world was thrown into disarray after the Mongol invasions. They slaughtered an enormous portion of the populations of Eastern Muslim lands like Khwarezm, Khurasan, and Persia, which previously had produced many of the caliphate's most illustrious scholars and scientists. Once the Mongols reached 'Iraq, they destroyed Baghdad, including its large complexes of libraries, translation centers, and academies. The 'Abbasids, great patrons of culture and science, would never again be an any meaningful position of political power. Around the same time, the Crusades were underway in the Levant and the Reconquista had been making steady progress in Al-Andalus.

Imam al-Ghazali was neither a 'fundamentalist' nor anti-science; he criticized Ibn Sina's metaphysical thought, which had little to do with scientific accomplishment one way or the other. Most of his writings focus on religious sciences like sufism, theology, and Sunni jurisprudence; not natural science or philosophy. The Muslim world was no more or less 'religious' or 'fundamentalist' after he lived than it had been previously.

[Anonymous No.2665014]

>>2664944
>then you should know once* Al Ghazali gained fame and his ideas supressed Aristotle, islam became fundamentalist and the middle east turned to shit. around 1100ad?

...No. The Muslim world was thrown into disarray after the Mongol invasions. They slaughtered an enormous portion of the populations of Eastern Muslim lands like Khwarezm, Khurasan, and Persia, which previously had produced many of the caliphate's most illustrious scholars and scientists. Once the Mongols reached 'Iraq, they destroyed Baghdad, including its large complexes of libraries, translation centers, and academies. The 'Abbasids, great patrons of culture and science, would never again be an any meaningful position of political power. Around the same time, the Crusades were underway in the Levant and the Reconquista had been making steady progress in Al-Andalus.

Imam al-Ghazali was neither a 'fundamentalist' nor anti-science; he criticized Ibn Sina's metaphysical thought, which had little to do with scientific accomplishment one way or the other. Most of his writings focus on religious sciences like sufism, theology, and Sunni jurisprudence; not natural science or philosophy. The Muslim world was no more or less 'religious' or 'fundamentalist' after he lived than it had been previously.

Also, most of the famous polymaths and scientists during the golden age were deeply religious men who were often doctors of law, theologians, sufis, or various combinations of these. This includes Ibn Sina.

[Anonymous No.2665023]

If it hasn't been mentioned. The Gospel of Thomas is pretty good, problem is it's FUCKING rare since the Papacy excluded it from biblical cannon.

[Anonymous No.2665024]

>>2664978
>What leads you to believe that Christianity was the reason for these problems?

It wasn't the only cause, or even the main cause, but it was one of the factors involved in stifling progress, both scientific and political progress.

By stifling science it prevented the industrial revolution which lifted the west out of abject poverty.

It stifled science by punishing those who questioned their church dogma, those who questioned the order of things, how nature works, how the universe functions, etc..

It also stifled science by promoting arm-chair philosophy over empirical research. People were afraid to publish their ideas for fear that they might contradict dogma. Galileo, Giordano Bruno, etc.

They also used superstition to explain many problems, i.e diseases were the result of demons, witch-craft, or result of sin, and required spiritual purification, etc...

The bible gave a basis for this mumbo-jumbo and even talked about demonic possession and how witches should not be treated well...implying absurd implications.

By infecting politics it perpetuated the heirarchical class system where Kings and lords ruled by divine right over their subjects (with popes and bishops pulling their strings in the background).

It literally tried to keep people dumb by making it illegal for commoners to read the bible or own a translation of it.

It literally tried to ban the bible from being translated into common tongues for fear that they would lose their monopoly over its interpretation, etc.

The bible is to blame in the sense that it provides the frame-work for discrimination and oppression. It provides the thought-system that subjugates people physically, socially and mentally.

[Anonymous No.2665039]

>>2664997

Not sure what this has anything to do with my post. We were talking about artistic output between the fall of the Roman Empire and the Enlightenment. I'm not saying Christianity is all good... I'm just saying it's not all bad, either.

Most of all, I'm saying that many of the problems you've cited-- and the problems faced during the "Dark Ages" cited by the other guy-- were not caused by Christianity, and especially were not caused by the Bible itself. Rather, Christianity was used to justify these atrocities, especially colonialism.

At any rate, it's a good idea to understand the Bible in order to understand Western literature. Moreover, parts of it have artistic value in their own right.

[Anonymous No.2665040]

>>2665014

>Imam al-Ghazali was neither a 'fundamentalist' nor anti-science

he was anti anything not islam, he was strictly anti-aristotle

and aristotle was the only semblance of empiricism back then, basically he rejected anyone and anything if they didn't Believe

and if science contradicted the Quran, then the science was wrong

he paved the way for fundamentalist islam, if you actually read his work and his biography instead of just a few scraps on wikipedia you would realize this

[Anonymous No.2665049]

>>2665039
>Rather, Christianity was used to justify these atrocities, especially colonialism.

it also bred the mentality required to discriminate between believers and non-believers

saying the bible/christianity didn't cause things like the inquisition misses the point, the cause is too complicated to figure out

but the point is, the bible contains the blue-print for an inquisition, it instructs on who to kill, who is a heretic, and who should be punished according to such and such rules--

i.e don't suffer a witch to live

it doesn't mind-control people into doing things, but it sure as hell provides the perfect conditions/justifications for people to behave idiotically

[Anonymous No.2665053]

>>2665023
>The Gospel of Thomas is pretty good

and Meister Ekhart

[Anonymous No.2665054]

>>2665024
>By stifling science it prevented the industrial revolution which lifted the west out of abject poverty.

The legacy of the industrial revolution: destruction of the environment and human lives on an enormous and unprecedented scale, overpopulation, decline in living standards for the majority of the population, mass media, and all sorts of devious political ideologies. Great stuff.

[Anonymous No.2665056]

>>2665049
Stop trolling, seriously. You might as well blame everything on science and technology if you want to play the blame game

[Anonymous No.2665074]

>>2665024

Many of these problems resulted from the fall of the Roman Empire though. I find it hard to believe that the vandals and visigoths would have developed the scientific method if only those bad bible-bearing Christians hadn't shown up and closed their minds.

Besides, many of the issues you've described go back way before Christianity... You don't really believe that the average Roman was a philosopher, do you? People have always used superstition to explain things they don't understand.

This argument is pointless anyway. Why argue about what might have happened if Christ had never been born and the Bible as we know it never written? I find it unlikely that we would be dodging asteroids on the way to Alpha Centauri, but you're free to believe that if you wish. Western Europe had the Bible, and the pope, and witch burnings and all that shit, but nevertheless it was the site of the Enlightenment and the leader of technological advancement, and the Bible didn't stop Europe while the Mayans or the Chinese passed us up. This historical fact, more than anything I can say, is the strongest refutation of your argument.

And even if you're right and the Bible ruined everything, it still has sections of literary merit and it is still required that you at least understand it if you want to understand Western literature. I believe you'll understand those references better if you read sections of it.

[Anonymous No.2665095]

>>2665049

Either that or people are nearly always driven by selfish motives and use anything they can to justify or facilitate the domination of others, including both religion and science.

But you're probably right... the Bible is what taught humans to discriminate. That must be why only Christians do it.

[Anonymous No.2665118]

>>2665049

the works of carl schmitt were used as the ideological foundations for nazism.

the nazis did bad stuff.

ergo don't read schmitt.

this is essentially what you are arguing about the bible... interesting coming from someone who lauds free speech and the spread of ideas.

[Anonymous No.2665133]

>>2664813 this poster gets it

The Rennaissance and Romantic Ages started the myth of the "Dark Ages" and many historians believe they never existed (I for one am one) If you want to suggest like previous periods that glorified their tempora et mores that there actually was a time called the "Dark Ages" then it allegedly started with the Decline of Rome (erroneously known as the Fall Of Rome and ended with the rule of Charlamagne the Great. People always put the blame on organized religion or whoever was in power when it really is a problem of humanity. I as a historian look at the humsn condition through a time capsule. It really is amazing.

>this thread is derailed and sorry op but I had to get some things straight. Enjoy the beauty of The Bible as an aesthetic snd significant piece of literature and ignore the various gobshites stirring shit.

[Anonymous No.2665144]

>>2665133
*humans

Sorry typing furiously to set things straight and remove over-emotional bias and historical fallacies.

[Anonymous No.2665173]

This whole thing is copypasta. GTFO.

[Anonymous No.2665181]

>>2665118
>ideological foundation

no, this is more like blaming Hitler's ideology for the crimes of Nazis

it makes sense to blame the bible's ideology for the inquisitions crimes

[Anonymous No.2665193]

>>2665181
>Bible's ideology
please stop bullshitting, name example where Bible specifically told everyone to kill everyone else.

[Anonymous No.2665187]

>>2665144
>>2665133
*Human condition,damn mezcal.

[Anonymous No.2665189]

>>2665040

>he paved the way for fundamentalist islam

Oh, lol. 'Fundamentalist Islam' has remarkably little precedent in traditional Muslim theology, and if it can be connected to any medieval thinkers, it's Ibn Taymiyyah. Any sort of sufic thought is anathema to them.

>and if science contradicted the Quran, then the science was wrong

"A grievous crime indeed against religion has been committed by the man who imagines that Islam is defended by the denial of the mathematical sciences, seeing that there is nothing in revealed truth opposed to these sciences by way of either negation or affirmation, and nothing in these sciences opposed to the truth of religion." - Al-Ghazali, Al-Munqidh min ad-Dalaal

Had he been hell-bent on convincing everyone to 'oppose science', I doubt we'd find authorities in the Shafi'i school of jurisprudence (to which he belonged) classifying certain sciences as fard l-kifaya, or communally obligatory, barely a century after his death.

>if you actually read his work and his biography instead of just a few scraps on wikipedia you would realize this

3/10, raged a little. I've read quite a few of his works. I try to read them in Arabic or in bilingual editions when I can find them. How about you?

The notion that Al-Ghazali convinced the entire Muslim world to 'abandon science' and the chauvinistic claim that all of their accomplishments were due to some Ancient Greek intellectual legacy are examples of the sort of preposterous bullshit that I thought we'd abandoned a long time ago. Nonspecialists gonna non-specialize, I guess.

[Anonymous No.2665200]

>>2665193

>name example where Bible specifically told everyone to kill everyone else.

the inquisition never tried to kill everyone
it tried to punish those according to biblical law

the bible has all sorts of punishments for various crimes

[Anonymous No.2665202]

>>2665189
>seeing how there is..nothing in these sciences opposed to the truth of religion

wow how progressive and open minded...

seeing as how True Science doesn't contradict Islam, then ...

>implying if a science contradicts religion, then it isn't even a science

[Anonymous No.2665208]

>>2665200
why did I expect a meaningful debate in the first place...
This is pointless, I believe the Bible was used as a propaganda with a few selected verse that was taken out of context to justify their wrongdoings. You of course believe those verses are the only and whole truth as expressed throughout the entire bible.
There's nothing to agree on, so just move on and continue to be biased.

[Anonymous No.2665222]

>>2665208

>takin it out of context

how do you know you aren't taking it out of context by focusing on the parts you find palpable and ignoring the disgusting absurdities in it?

the church had theologians a million times better at interpretation than you...think about it

[Anonymous No.2665227]

>>2665200
The inquisition was nothing more than power control tainting religious structure. A human problem! People with ambition and a hellbent path can screw up even the most sacred things. Accept humans are screwed up and need a higher set of morals than absolute control, conquest and greed. Then read some history books and then come back, your emotional bias and logical fallacies cloud your intellectual fiber. I as a historian am facepalming throughout this thread. it is worst than a holocaust thread I saw on /pol/.

[Anonymous No.2665230]

>>2665222
There are theologians now who will agree with me, but of course you wouldn't know anything about it because you haven't bothered to research into theology and Jewish culture and history.

Almost no theologians will take the Old Testament at face value, unless you are from the South where Christian fundamentalism still exists.

[Anonymous No.2665231]

>>2665208

>You of course believe those verses are the only and whole truth as expressed throughout the entire bible.

absurd verses are only part of the reason why I reject and despise the bible, a small part

it's overarching theology, moral message, nihilistic view of the world, and its values are even worse

[Anonymous No.2665233]

>>2665230

>Almost no theologians will take the Old Testament at face value

eventually they won't even take it on 'metaphorical value', it will simply be pure fiction

:)

[Anonymous No.2665236]

>>2665227
>Accept humans are screwed up and need a higher set of morals than absolute control,

now you're sounding like a true Knight of the Inquisition

>humans are dirty, foul things that need DIVINE GUIDANCE!!!

please end yourself

[Anonymous No.2665248]

>>2665202

>wow how progressive and open minded...

I never claimed he was either. The quote sufficiently demonstrates that your characterization of his thought was inaccurate. He was only concerned with philosophical speculation on theological matters, chiefly the idea of an eternal universe (about which his opponents were incorrect, as it turns out) and purely metaphysical positions with no real ramifications outside of speculative theology.

Any monocausal explanation of something like the 'decline of Muslim science' is bound to be retarded. This article provides a decent, brief overview of the issue:

http://islamsci.mcgill.ca/Viewpoint_ragep.pdf

[Anonymous No.2665249]

>>2665233
Yeah pure fiction what about the historical books. Although King David wasn't quite so Holy. He killed his messengers when he recieved bad news and was quick to shed blood. Some things need to be taken with a grain of salt as mythos, metaphors, etc. but there is fact in the OT. If you can't find out what is history and story and call it all b.s. you have a problem.

[Anonymous No.2665265]

>>2665236
Selecitve reading huh? When you skim you miss the point entirely. Read it again you poltroon!