/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.2646510]

Being a utilitarian hedonist is the only justifiable position to hold in the long run. As humanity becomes more connected and interdependent egoism fades away. So does antiquated religion. We are all in it together and want to feel good. Let's make it happen.

[Anonymous No.2646538]

>utilitarianism
>looking out for all

since when?

[Anonymous No.2646542]

>pursuing pleasure above all else


You must have a great time procrastinating.

[Anonymous No.2646556]

>not knowing utilitarianism breaks down immediately
>somehow bridging the gap between "pleasure feels good" and "other people's pleasure is my priority"

[Anonymous No.2646563]

>only justifiable position
>justification having anything to do with results
Get a load of this guy

[Anonymous No.2646573]

How does that work exactly? It seems like utilitarianism and hedonism would butt heads at some point.

[Anonymous No.2646574]

>in the long run
There's your problem. We're not going to be around for the long run. So everyone will be more likely to take a position the suits us for the time being.

[Anonymous No.2646599]

>>2646574
How long is long? Longer than a singluar lifetime is too long for hedonism.

[Anonymous No.2646622]

>>2646510

A life of hedonism has only brought me misery and self-hatred.

One day I woke up and the realisation came to me that I hadn't really done much in my life except fulfill my own selfish desires; I had lead an empty life up to this point.

I though back on all the meaningless sex, drug-taking and procrastination and it horrified me. All that wasted time, all that I had given up for a moments sensory pleasure and to be surrounded by fake people who were little more than parasites.

I suppose you could call it 'growing up', but I look around and see this type of self-obsessed worldview in people older than myself all the time.

I've been determined to change my ways ever since and always look for ways I can help others as well as improving myself in general. I'm going to try and make up for being such a monumental dick.

[Anonymous No.2647491]

>>2646538
Since very soon.

>>2646556
The gap is bridged by monism, which is a way of looking at the world which becomes more and more plausible when we become more and more connected. With our technology and what it will be we will at some point become so observable and therefore accountable/responsible that it is 99,99% of the time is more seflishly viable to act in the benefit of the collective. We will in a way become a single organism being under the constant scrutiny of our peers.

>>2646573
People's goals would merge in the long run.

>>2646599
Lifetimes are expanding as we speak. One could say that once we really make medical and technological progress life could be expanded for a long time, some say indefinitely. This would make the future of the world your future. It would make the future of being your future. Consequences to our actions are going to be taken much more seriously. Until now people have been able to live like if their at some strangers party. They will leave in a short while and never have to see those people again, so they act like assholes. Eternity however is a long time. Especially when everyone holds you accountable. Karma will become a real force in society.

>>2646622
Hedonism doesn't have to be of the libertine variety. One could say that Buddhism and Epicureanism are hedonisms too.

[Anonymous No.2647499]

>>2647491

Don't kid yourself. You're going to die. And sooner than you think. Are you a millionaire? Only the rich will afford that kind of treatment.

Don't be an asshole, but don't overdo the being good thing either. Life is meaningless, just enjoy shit.

[Anonymous No.2647503]

Pleasure seeking is good, but seek the "higher" pleasures of the mind, and cultivation of fulfilling crafts. Women are good too, as long as they don't ask you for too much shit.

[Anonymous No.2647506]

ugh, scum. If I was ruler of the world, people like you would be put to work in the mines. Please don't try to intellectualise your selfishness.

[Anonymous No.2647507]

>>2647499
Things become cheaper and more widespread very soon, this trend will only increase when technology will evolve faster since things become "outdated" sooner in the eyes of the elite. You can see this already by being able to buy perfectly functional phones and computers for almost no money.

God tier health insurance will help a lot too. It's a matter of priorities. I don't think being a millionaire will be necessary to keep up. I know many people who have gotten fine treatment for their cancer and heart conditions and chronic diseases. Why would this be different in the case of vat grown kidneys or new hands?

[Anonymous No.2647514]

a) How is humanity becoming more connected?
b) What do I care about the long run (I will be pretty dead in the long run)?

[Anonymous No.2647530]

>>2647514
a) Partly because of the internet and communication devices. The Libyan revolt was broadcast by amateurs, for example. The internet has billions of eyes, so anything remarkable in public will probably be shared with the world. There are camera's everywhere, in the hands of all kinds of people. You have the ability to contact people from all over the world with the device you carry in your pocket. It is this possibility that truly globalises our lives.

It used to be that people behaved themselves because God was watching. Then nobody was watching for a while, but now humanity has taken over Gods job and sees everything.

b)Life expansion is growing rapidly. You may have some years to live than you think.

All in all, I think these developments will push humanity towards a more holistic view of life, which in turn will make certain ancient cosmologies and moralities much more viable. Life on earth is becoming an intelligent, self-observing entity.

[Anonymous No.2647533]

I never asked for this

[Anonymous No.2648399]

You'll get it anyway.

[Caracalla !!S1oOkTjvsv2 No.2648424]

OP, would you take Nozick's experience machine?

[Anonymous No.2648563]

>>2648424
That's hard to say. I take a lot of pleasure in critical thought, so having to consciously make the choice to deceive myself would be opposed to this. If this isn't a factor and I wouldn't note being deceived, it would be like the situation I am in now. So then basically all you ask is "would you upgrade to a better world?", which sounds attractive. But if I have to take the experience of feeling self-deceiving into it, then no. I couldn't bring myself to consciously do this.

[CROM No.2648603]

> mfw /lit/ is suddenly bro-tier.

[Anonymous No.2648631]

>>2646556
I don't even like futa but the way those two are like DANCE DANCE DANCE and don't seem to realize they're wearing the huge cocks is both hilarious and kind of hot.

[Anonymous No.2648668]

can someone (OP?) name some utilitarian hedonist literature?

[Anonymous No.2648720]

>>2648668
I wouldn't really know actually. I was merely trying things out and combining concepts as I went along. It's just that I observe this trend of humanity turning more and more into a collective organism and pondering the philosophical/ethical way of dealing with that in anticipation.

That said, I've read that Michael Onfray adheres to a sort of utilitarian hedonism, but I haven't read anything by him. Might be interesting though.

Also, one could say that Buddhism is essentially utilitarian hedonism. The Bodhisattva vow in Mahayana Buddhism is exemplary of this, where one vows to achieve Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings, to deliver them from suffering. So one helps oneself to the level where one is able to take away the suffering of everyone and everything, which is negative hedonism, striving for the absence of displeasure. I could see this sort of attitude combined very well with modern technological advancement.

[Anonymous No.2648741]

>Utilitarianism
>Hedonism
>Buddhism?

>This fucking thread

[Anonymous No.2648763]

>>2648720
I understand what you're saying about humanity becoming a collective organism, but why would the philosophical way to deal with that be viewing pleasure as the only intrinsic good? I'm not seeing what you're getting at at all.

[Anonymous No.2648778]

>>2648763
Not perhaps the only good, but it is a good we can all agree with to some extend. Some might search for enlightenment, some for scientific knowledge, some for peaceful service of our lord Jesus Christ and some for painting the perfect sunset, but if there is anything all of humanity values it would be not suffering and having the ability to enjoy oneself. Religions come and go, goals change, people find and lose their calling and mission in life, but at the end of the day we don't want our stomach growling. Therefore utilitarian hedonism is the best candidate for a future philosophical position on a universal scale.

[Anonymous No.2648781]

>>2648778
But if everyone is just looking out for themselves and their own pleasure, how will society advance?

[Anonymous No.2648835]

>>2648781
That's where the utilitarian part comes in, partly because modern society is in the progress of becoming interwoven to the point of blatant egoism no longer being an option. One realises that, perhaps more than ever in history, the fate of others is directly related to ours.

Also, as a negative impulse, society is becoming increasingly regulated and observing. Getting away with murder is nearly impossible if you compare the odds with a hundred years ago. Stealing gets harder too since funds are increasingly traceable. If you trick a girl into sleeping with you under false pretence the next day it can be on Facebook. There's not much hiding and fleeing to be done anymore.

It becomes increasingly hard to be different persons to different people. You talk different to your mother than to your friends, but when you publish online both can read it. How will you talk?

The age of information and communication we live in comes to a point of transparency and universality where we will actually have to become whole, authentic persons. We will have to practice what we preach more, since we are under scrutiny. Soyen Shaku made the following rule for himself:

"Receive a guest with the same attitude you have when alone.
When alone, maintain the same attitude you have in receiving guests."

This will become a reality for us too. Our constantly growing connection to each other leaves no room for deceit and insincerity. If we want people to view us as a certain type of person, we will actually have to be that way. I'm just typing along here, but I think you can understand the general tendency I'm trying to describe.

Big Brother is watching you, and he is all of us, watching each other at the same time. This is becoming increasingly true for everyone, including those in power.

[Anonymous No.2648838]

>>2648835
This is... Interesting. I'm not sure if I FULLY agree, but I'll take that into consideration.

[Anonymous No.2649490]

>tfw transhumanism will probably have to be egalitarian or be practised solely by the wrong people
>tfw Nietzschean
>tfw I'd rather become Übermenschlich with the plebs than with the capitalist robber barrons.

[Anonymous No.2649498]

How you like this /lit/? I've got a bit of a project going and need some tips.

>“Funny thing about childhood. You tend not to remember the bad parts for very long. It’s as if I grew up perfectly happy for nearly two decades. Of course I know that I couldn’t have been entirely happy the whole time, the whole premise just sort of has a happy tone to it.” I felt the need to pause as the policewoman took out her notepad and a stylus. Her eyes had finally shifted away from me and the blue light of the notepad caught them. In that light, I couldn’t properly tell her pupils from the rest of her eyes. I continued. “Of course there were hard bits. Teenage girls and what not, but before that… Before that there were problems. I was born before the revolution. My parents and me all lived in one of those white picket fence houses. With the flowery curtains and shiny drain pipes and that. Never really did think about anything else, but when you’re a child you tend not to think of others much. Hah, I guess I still don’t."

Shouldn't matter too much that it's out of context.

[Anonymous No.2649501]

>any justification in life at all

[Anonymous No.2649502]

>>2649501
>Schoppy
>not arriving at all-encompassing altruism in the end

[Anonymous No.2649504]

>>2646510

Whatever works for you OP.

[Anonymous No.2649516]

>>2646510
>As humanity becomes more connected and interdependent egoism fades away.

Boy, I sure don't see this happening. I see the opposite. More and more narcissism.
Narcissism seems to be the plague of our age.

[Anonymous No.2649523]

Nozick's experience machine discredits hedonism as far as I'm concerned.

[Anonymous No.2649612]

>>2649523
only if you have a very narrow definition of hedonism

[Anonymous No.2649628]

lol OP, you're a fag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
then read some Smart, Singer, Nozick and by then you'll probably be prepared to stop being such a cocksucker.

[Anonymous No.2649629]

>>2649612
hedonism is inherently narrow.

[Anonymous No.2649641]

kantians represent yo

[Anonymous No.2649655]

>>2648563
This is the correct answer. Part of the machine could even be the illusion of rejecting it.

Brave New World style philosophers truly embarrass themselves with their outdated, morally biased worldviews.

[Anonymous No.2649664]

>>2649504
Dad, I told you not to post on my websites anymore! We're talking about the future here!

[Anonymous No.2649673]

Not OP but posting things he's already addressed earlier in the thread isn't an argument.

[Anonymous No.2650094]

1/2

>>2649516
The Narcissism in our age really has very much to do with being well thought of. In an age where one is constantly under the observance and judgement of his peers, the narcissist, in order to validate his own image, will actually have to act like a pretty cool guy. An example of this could be celebrities participating in charity, I suppose. Narcissism is alive and well, but it is mostly relatively harmless.

>>2649628
General systems aren't necessarily dismissible just because they aren't applicable in every single thinkable scenario. A general tendency of utilitarian hedonism on a large scale may very well be the best possible course of action without being the ultimate one in theory.

I think it will become a very viable course to follow, even when one is inherently an egoist. One becomes less and less able to hide things in our age of information technology. The domain of unaccountability may very well become confined to ones own inner thoughts. Simply said, the chance that you will be caught for doing naughty things according to your hearts desire will become so great that it is beneficial to your own happiness and peace of mind to start acting altruistically. Where the powerful once had a bit more playroom, now they're only a tweet away from being ruined forever.

[Anonymous No.2650096]

2/2

Living in a small village makes people less inclined to crime. Not only because of the positive bond they feel towards their community, but also because their life will be essentially over when they get caught. It's not worth risking. Social influence (or pressure if you will) is a powerful force. Because of the way people can and have to stay connected to each other even in the largest of metropolises, this factor will become more prevalent in the decision making of urban populations.

I believe it was Epicurus who once said that one should refrain from committing crimes, not because they are necessarily bad, but because the risk of being reprimanded for them is too much of a sacrifice of ones peace of mind and happiness. This advice has become much more relevant today. This is where we realise that being a selfish bastard will actually get us less out of life than being a good guy, and egoism and altruism start to intermingle into a singular cause, namely the betterment of life for the living. Once we put our mind to this, we can start growing towards to glorious hive of conciousness we can be.

[Anonymous No.2650108]

>Broad generalizations about the future coming from inductive reasoning
>inductive reasoning coming from broad generalizations of technological progress
>using broad generalizations to support inductive reasoning to support broad generalizations
>using broad generalizations to support a philosophical worldview

nigga, you dumb?

>mfw I'm also using broad generalizations of an argument
>I have no face.

[Anonymous No.2650128]

>>2650108
There's nothing other than broad generalisations to talk about on this level. I understand that it's not precisely a watertight argument, but the notion that it becomes increasingly to everyone's benefit to cooperate can still be made, as far as I'm concerned.

As the fate of humanity becomes more and more entwined, it becomes more and more beneficial to any part of it to cooperate with the rest. Therefore I'd say you might as well get on with it and live aware of this fact, instead of adhering to the antiquated mindstates of fiercely independent highwaymen to name a romantic example.

[Anonymous No.2650133]

ITT: people who dont know what hedonism actually means

except you OP. you runnin shit now dawg

You're making some really interesting arguments.

[Anonymous No.2650182]

"In the golden rule of Jesus of Nazareth, we read the complete spirit of the ethics of utility."
-- Utilitarianism, John Stuart Mill
> mfw we already live according to this code

[Anonymous No.2650188]

Somebody argue Schopenhauer's suffering theory.

[Anonymous No.2650196]

>>2650182
Lesson1: read the distinction between categorical and consequential utilitarianism.

[Anonymous No.2650447]

>>2650188
Summarize it, if you will?

[Anonymous No.2650641]

>>2650447
>pls respond

[Anonymous No.2650662]

>>2650447

Yes, please. I'm not familiar with philosophy but am just starting. I read Schopenhauer wrote that suffering was better than trying to be happy because something like happiness is an impermanent state. Explain in detail if you can. (He's on my reading list after Nietzsche.)

[Anonymous No.2650832]

>>2650662
Happiness strengthens the ego and thus binds you ever closer to the illusion of separateness, while suffering helps to dismantle the ego and increases your ability to identify with the sufferings of other living things, thus helping to expose the illusion. For Schopenhauer, all living beings. Also, by suffering, you are merely paying the 'toll' of all those who have caused suffering - it's like karma, but instead of operating on an individual basis, it operates in a fluid, universal sense.

[Anonymous No.2650908]

>>2650832
Can suffering be ended according to him?

[Anonymous No.2650915]

>>2650832

What's a good book by Schopenhauer to read about this idea? He's next on my list but I'm ignorant of philosophy.

[Anonymous No.2651619]

cosmic bump

[Anonymous No.2651663]

I've heard about this kind of stuff before, from certain techno geeks...

They described the future as being like the Panopticon, where everyone lives in a constant state of fear because they think they are always being watched and thus have to modulate their behaviour so that they aren't breaking any laws or any social norms.

This is a shitty way to live, and people aren't magically going to be able to align their private selves with their social selves so easily. I suspect it either won't happen, or if it does it's going to require a lot of conditioning and/or a lot of drugs. Not that we don't already have drugs to manage the anxiety and depression that likely, in part, comes from people trying and failing to meet society's various moral and other metrics.

I think it's good for people to sometimes test the limits, to flirt with crime, because it encourages you to think independently and creatively. If all everyone ever did was follow the rules others set up for them they might as well just be dumb robots.

[Anonymous No.2651881]

1/2

>>2651663
I'd say the scenario you're fearing applies mostly to an authoritarian state in which the government is the only one having access to surveillance technology and such, like in the classic dystopic future.

The difference that no one had really anticipated is that we are all walking surveillance units. We all of us observe each other, everyone carries two eyes in their head and a third one in their pocket. When 9/11 happened there were a few people filming it. If it would happens now there would be thousands.

Everyone has the power to address issues they think need addressing, and if the issue is deemed important enough by one's fellows it quickly travels the world. Our societies model of information distribution is leaning more towards that of large scale word of mouth than precise propaganda. We are becoming quite the global village. There aren't many places in the world you can't travel to within a day. There aren't many places that you can't connect to within a second. Lately more authoritarian regimes get toppled than instigated. This is partly because everyone can see what is going on almost everywhere.

[Anonymous No.2651885]

2/2

The price we pay for all this is indeed less privacy. We are just as likely to be judged by our peers, it's just that they have more occasions to do this. I would think twice about fathering some child and running away from the responsibility if all that is needed to find me is a quick search. I agree, this can very well be a double edged sword if people are starting to actually getting repressed for all kind of nasty reasons.

The technology however, will continue to advance. Our privacy will continue to lessen and we will continue to be more and more subjected to others views, wishes and scrutiny, This is the reason that I state that in order to make use of such a world in a fruitful way, a general attitude of utilitarianism is the outlook that deals with our new situations in the best way. Always being watched is scary in a jailcell full of strange possible protagonists. It is rather soothing amongst your fellow tribesman, knowing that you all watch each others back and are ready to help out. This is a choice we can make, and I would say the sooner the better.

[Anonymous No.2651889]

>>2651885
*antagonists, of course. I'm still pre-coffee.

[Anonymous No.2652970]

This thread is pretty interesting and a new thing compared to the Stirnerite/Egoist stuff. Yes, this is OP.