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2608131 No.2608131 [Reply] [Original]

Do you believe in God? Why or why not?

>> No.2608143

>>2608131

I don't believe in God, lack of empirical evidence. Also, I guess I'm just not that sort of person.

Now that that's over with, where on Earth did you find that hilarious picture?

>> No.2608145

Yes. It was the story I preferred.

>> No.2608149

>>2608143
I will also give you my religious outlook in return for a picture source.

>> No.2608153

http://www.flickr.com/photos/willlaren/

not OP, just googled "The Ol' Spicy Keychain"

>> No.2608155

I'm really not sure. I guess I'm more of a christian than anything else, like if I die I want a christian burial but I don't go to church regularly.

>> No.2608157

No. He doesn't believe in me.

>> No.2608158

No. Because I don't see any reason to.

>> No.2608160
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2608160

>> No.2608162

No, but I do believe in life after love.

>> No.2608166

god is but a word.

>> No.2608168

>>2608162

But do really think it's strong enough?

>> No.2608170

>>2608166

And the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

>> No.2608171
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2608171

The question itself is based in a flawed concept, and it inherently pointless and should not be asked.

>> No.2608172

>>2608168

I can feel something inside myself, but unfortunately, I really don't think it's strong enough ...

>> No.2608173

Yes. Because I don´t see any reason not to.

>> No.2608179

>>2608171
What´s your beef with the concept of belief?

>> No.2608181

>>2608173
Lack of evidence?

>> No.2608189

>>2608131
i could not think of a less interesting question to waste ones time upon.

>> No.2608190

>>2608179
It's the having to supply a reason in conjunction with whether one believes or not which is where the beef arises for me, I think. The concept of belief is such that it transcends reason, and although I am not really okay with that, I still think that the two are more often than not mutually exclusive.

>> No.2608194

>>2608189

I don't think you're trying hard enough.

>> No.2608196

no. the existence of a god or gods is highly irrelevant to my own life, unless they decide to present themselves or are discovered scientifically.

>> No.2608198

define god.

>> No.2608200

>>2608198

I am.

>> No.2608202

I haven't believed in God since I was 7, after I was taken out of church by my father because he thought I should question every belief and religion, and to "find my own path in God".

It was odd and somewhat terrifying being the only 7 year old in the deep south to question the existence of God.

>> No.2608205

>>2608198
lol, seriously? Do it yourself, man.

Either make our own philosophy, or be enslaved by another's.

>> No.2608209

>>2608181
Do you really think the question of God´s existence can be resolved bythe means of collecting evidence for or against it?

>> No.2608212

>>2608202

Did you find the path?

>> No.2608214

>>2608198
Nietzsche in the sky.

>> No.2608216

>It was odd and somewhat terrifying being the only 7 year old in the deep south to question the existence of God.

What a special snowflake you are.

>> No.2608221

>>2608205
you're ridiculous.

>> No.2608224

I think I may be getting there, but it is hard to find a pathway that I could claim as "mine".

>> No.2608233

>>2608216
Nope. Not at all.

Do be careful around the south, though. You will be ridiculed and yelled at down here. Or prayed over. Or practically burned at the stake.

>> No.2608239
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2608239

>>2608131
I do not. I was raised rather secular and apatheistic. Being sceptically natured myself, I've never had reason to make the plunge into belief.

Atheism comes very natural when you haven't literally been told by adults that God exists and that we should do as he says. It would probably be very troublesome to convince a young child of the existence of God once they're past believing in Santa.

>> No.2608240

>>2608212
>>2608224
Whoops, meant to direct it.

>> No.2608242

>>2608216

But I'm so oppressed! They crucify atheists down here in the Bible Belt

>> No.2608243

Because the sheer number of different ideas about God pales in comparison to the sheer number of possible ideas about God, which in turn cannot be anything near the number of possible ways God could be (if he or she existed, assuming there's only one to begin with, etc.), and I see no evidence such a being exists, let alone a reason to believe any specific one exists. Belief that there's even a 50% chance a deity exists requires a lot more suppositions than belief that odds are astronomical against the existence of such a being. I'm not claiming absolute certainty, though.

In other words, Pascal probably bet wrong.

>> No.2608246

>>2608242
Actually, they will throw rocks at you down here, or pray over you for an hour while expelling "demons" from your soul.

>> No.2608249

>>2608221
I was simply pointing to the sheer and obtuse simplicity of the statement.

>> No.2608252

>>2608242
i pity you for being unable to get a proper education. i really do.

>> No.2608260

Here's my worthless opinion:

In every conceptualization of "God" that has ever existed, people project human logic and emotions onto him/her/it.

Why do people assume something as incomprehensible as God would be so easily understood and explained by a set of simple metaphors like "Father" or "Lord" or "Shepard"??

>> No.2608264

>>2608249
>Either make our own philosophy, or be enslaved by another's.
this is but a poor excuse for your ignorance.
all propositions concerning the existence of "god" are without meaning as long as "god" remains undefined.

>> No.2608269

>>2608252
I believe your education is what you make of it. In general, you will be able to surpass other students if you study and learn outside of the classroom. The classroom is a guideline, and a way to make you want to learn and read.

>> No.2608272

>>2608264
>implied inability to compensate for OP's lack of definition.

>> No.2608274

>>2608260
works just fine as god is a human construct, just as his anthropomorphic qualities.

>> No.2608277

No, certainly not in any theistic god.

Maybe in some universal principle or something that we've not yet discovered or come to understand, but definitely not any religious god. If some such principle does exist, I also doubt it has anything to do with us.

Religion to me has always seemed like a primitive, mystical counterpart to science science people used to explain the world around them before they had the means to do it objectively. Now it's outdated and we as a society have outgrown it.

>> No.2608284

>>2608260

But that's the way we understand everything. It's impossible for us to get out of our subjectivity. We can only speak in the language that we have.

Further, having an imperfect understanding of God is not necessarily having no understanding of God.

>> No.2608285

>>2608274
But my point is that it's probably very, very far from the truth. That's where religion gets it wrong.

>> No.2608287

>>2608277

I would just like to say that the proponents of scientism are far more obnoxious than most religious people.

>> No.2608288
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2608288

Don't care. Anyone who pushes either religion or atheism on others is a desperate child looking for meaning in life, as well as a sense of superiority. I don't care if other people practice religion, and I even respect many religious and non-religious people, but being intrusive in either direction is absolutely childish. Religious people who try to make everyone observe their god are moronic and should be exiled. Atheists who force religious people to violate or renounce their practices, or who ridicule religious people for their beliefs, or who impose secularism upon the faithful, are even worse. The situation with the catholic hospital nearly being forced to supply birth control in its insurance policy comes to mind. If you want birth control, work somewhere else. It is certainly not worth forcing many people to go against their belief system (especially when Catholics are relatively dignified and reasonable) in order to supply a few people with comforts they could get somewhere else.

But in the end, the most mature thing to do is simply to not talk about it at all.

>> No.2608292

>>2608284

While we'll probably never achieve a perfect understanding, I do think we can attain a better understanding than the overly simple explanations religion provides for us.

>> No.2608300

>impose secularism upon the faithful
this is where i disagree heavily. i dont mind religious people as long as they dont get in my buissness, education or politics.

>> No.2608302

>>2608287

Not sure if that was directed at me or just a statement, but if it was: the OP asked if we believed in God and why or why not and I answered. It's not like if some religious person told me they believed in God I would attack them and their "primitive mystical outdated system of beliefs!!".

Though on that note, I don't think humans are capable of understanding everything about the universe, so I don't prescribe myself to scientism anyway.

>> No.2608307

>>2608292

I think you're mistaking your own simplified notions of what religions present for what those religious traditions actually present.

>> No.2608321

Let's put it this way; the chances that a zombie apocalypse will actually happen are minimal, but that doesn't mean you're not taking nessicary percautions, does it?

It's the same reason I hang iron over my door and why I don't NOT believe in god.

They probably don't exist, but I've been wrong before.

>> No.2608328

>>2608321
pascals wager fails at every level possible.

>> No.2608332

>>2608307
Well, you might be partially right.

I can't speak for all religions. And I'm not saying that science or anything else is the cure-all for universal understanding, either.

But the two I'm familiar with (Christianity and Islam) come across as very simple to me, and they haven't changed their fundamental way of looking at things in a very long time.

>> No.2608333

>>2608321
Pascal's wager is a coward's reasoning.

>> No.2608334

>>2608242
http://rippere.com/2012/04/us-under-religious-apartheid/

Read and laugh.

>> No.2608349

parsimony's sake occams razor burns general common sense unnaccepting empirical reductive methods and also desire not to be watched by a fucking asshole in the clouds i've excised god from my chest and now theres this fucking hole which i have filled with sawdust and broken dreams etc...

>> No.2608352

We all need god.

>> No.2608353

>>2608333
meh. He seems fine with it.

>> No.2608361

>>2608353
Guess I'm just too afraid to take that leap and be comfortable with ... being comfortable.

>> No.2608363

>>2608233
>Do be careful around the south, though. You will be ridiculed and yelled at down here. Or prayed over. Or practically burned at the stake.

I'm from the South and have lived here my entire life.

>> No.2608369

>But the two I'm familiar with (Christianity and Islam) come across as very simple to me

I highly doubt that you're familiar with either, especially Islam.

>> No.2608370

>>2608363
Cool. Which state?

>> No.2608371

Well, I believe in some concept of a higher power but no particular religion. I do this generally to avoid being grouped in with the fundies of those respective religions. I am most familiar with the Abrahamic faiths (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, ect). I was born Roman Catholic, but as I got older I started researching more and more about religions of the world which led me to the beliefs I hold today.

>> No.2608387

>>2608333
>>2608328
No, you know what? I've been thinking. How is it cowards reasoning? Because you're not willing to make a choice about something that's completely theoretical? I don't like boxing myself in and I like to be prepared, I don't know if god exists, I don't want to deny it either. I believe in science, I believe in things I don't understand.

>> No.2608388

There are a lot of Bible bashers who will treat you like shit in the south if you aren't a fundamentalist. It's true. But it's not 100% of the population by any stretch. Probably about half. The other half is comprised of moderate Christians, people who never go to church but would probably call themselves Christians if you asked, and the rare person of another faith, atheist, etc.

The problem is that, because of how deeply ingrained religion is among the fundamentalist Christians, and the tendency of more moderate Christians not to notice religious imagery everywhere, since it's just normal to them, etc., it becomes difficult for some atheists to distinguish, and they develop the very same persecution complex that fundamentalist Christians exhibit when reacting to anything which reminds them that the government isn't a theocracy.

tl;dr EVERYBODY BUTTHURT

>> No.2608391

>>2608131

This is not really the board for a discussion like this, but I'll bite. I do not believe in gods. I do not believe in the 'supernatural', because belief in things that haven't been demonstrated to be true is intellectually dishonest

>> No.2608393

>>2608387
Behaving as if God exists in one specific form just because there's the faint chance that he (or she, or they) might is ridiculous. Especially since another theoretical God is equally likely to exist which will punish you for the exact same things that the first God wants you to do.

>> No.2608398

I do not believe in God or any form of higher power. But I don't think I can give you a satisfactory reason for that belief, except that I see no reason to believe in such a God; the non-existence of God seems as plain and obvious to me as the existence of a tree.

>> No.2608399

>>2608370

VA and SC. Unless you're loudly and obnoxiously announcing your beliefs in public, the overwhelming majority of people here will not care enough about your atheism to make a big deal out of it. People may be uncomfortable and sort of surprised if you mention it around them, but I'd hardly call that being burnt at the stake. Unless your experience was atypical I find it hard to believe that you really had it that bad.

>> No.2608402

>>2608371

thats because youre a faggot.
honestly when was the last time you drank from a pregnant autist's nipple skateboarding on your excavated grandmother's modified ribcage and i quote: "god divided the light and the darkness. he called the light 'day'. the darkness he forgot to name"
burn in limbo you jew bitch

>> No.2608407

>>2608388
>Probably about half.

Even that is an enormous overstatement.

>> No.2608405

>>2608399
i suspect (altho i do not know) that this is more or less true throughout the adult world, although you may run into a crazy person - but i also suspect that it is rather more difficult within the educational system or as a young person.

>> No.2608406

>>2608402
I don't understand this post at all.

>> No.2608410

>>2608388
I say just stay away from the Baptists, and you're good to go.

>> No.2608414

>>2608393
It's not like I say, oops, better believe in god or he might send me to hell! It has nothing to do about punishment or life after death. It's about not wanting to deny something that might exist based off of that I've never seen it. If you told me you saw a tasmanian tiger, I wouldn't want to just scream BULLSHIT, even if I'm doubtful, because shit, maybe you did see one.

>> No.2608418

>>2608407
Depends on what state, and what part of that state or city. Not saying it equals to half, though.

>> No.2608423

>>2608405
>but i also suspect that it is rather more difficult within the educational system or as a young person.

That could very well be true in many cases, but I think that young people are also more likely to be irreligious or casual in their approach to religion. Especially outside of rural areas.

>> No.2608434

>>2608414
If you told me you saw a tasmanian tiger, I'd ask you what it looked like, where you saw it, etc. Then I'd attempt to find it there. If, as I attempted to find it there and failed to do so, you kept saying, "no, wait, it was over there," I'd eventually scream BULLSHIT.
>>2608423
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-fen-y-Q0U <--Teenagers think shit like this is cool, go to camps where they're basically brainwashed into hating non-Christians, etc. It's not as prominent as some like to pretend, but it is a real thing. I've heard about adults telling teenagers to ostracize others who don't conform to their beliefs, and other shit like that.

>> No.2608452

>>2608434
yeah, agreed, but the thing about god is that part of his mysticism, or whatever you call it, is that he can't be found in the general sense. Also, even if god actually came down to earth, it's not very likely he'd be able to prove it. The general reaction to "I was sent by god" is "that dude's crazy". Then you have to consider things like spirit gods or animal gods. If a god looks like a hawk and acts like a hawk, then how do you prove a hawk's not actually a god?

>> No.2608453

>>2608399
I am from TN, and my experiences were awful by any context. I never brought up my beliefs, which by the way I am not an Atheist, unless the discussion came up and I was questioned about it directly. One time it was discussed, and this girl, friend of a friend, freaked out and threw rocks at me while she screamed I was literally evil. One hit me in the head and I had to be taken to hospital. Several stitches later, I was fine, and the girl never apologized.

Another time someone over heard about my beliefs while I was quietly discussing it with a close friend, flipped out, and ranted at me that I was going to hell. While we were in a classroom.

The entire classroom freaked out, multiple people screamed at me, the teacher blamed me for the disruption, and I was pulled from the classroom and taken to the main office. I was then harassed for the rest of the year by those students.

I have more experiences, some mild and some just as bad the ones stated above. Most of the time, people just become uncomfortable around me, which is fine.

>> No.2608467

>>2608453
Oh, btw, I was very young when these experiences happened. The girl and I were both 12, and the classroom incident happened when I was 14.

So this wasn't a bunch of bullying adults, but just kids with very strong opinions.

>> No.2608469

>>2608452
>he can't be found in the general sense
1. That's really convenient for something that could be absolute bullshit, eh?
2. But if we discover the secrets of the universe, and God isn't there, then is God shrinking as we discover more and more?
>it's not very likely he'd be able to prove it
Omnipotence?
>If a god looks like a hawk and acts like a hawk, then how do you prove a hawk's not actually a god?
If a god is, in every way, exactly like a hawk, then "god" is just another word for hawk.

>> No.2608482

>>2608453
>>2608467
yeah that's what I'm saying, i think the problem mostly lies on the level of education and for young adults - and it's not because young atheists are less sensitive about their own beliefs or are arrogant dickheads (tho they can be), it's mostly the result of specific factors within american evangelical christianity itself - the general conservative obsession with shaping the educational system, their obsession over prayer in school, their intent focus on witnessing, etc. shit like that i think has a much greater effect in the educational system and on kids. so if you're a 30 year old atheist in the south, things are going to look a lot easier, because you're not going to have to deal with as much religion, because there's a concerted effort to put religion on display in schools more than in the workplace.

>> No.2608487

byububububububbu

>> No.2608494

>>2608469
>then is God shrinking as we discover more and more?
He could be, I don't know. If the concept of God came from not understanding the world, then he is.

>Omnipotence?
Only goes as far as people are willing to believe it. Nobody believes a magician can fly when he "levitates" and everyone's always eager to disprove what they don't believe in, or other way around, prove what they do.

>then "god" is just another word for hawk.
That's too general an assumption. Some gods like to take form of animals. A god in a mortal body, and the like.

>> No.2608504

>>2608453
>>2608467
Damn. I moved to TN in 2004. I had some atheist friends but I never asked them about experiences. I wonder if it's still that bad.

>> No.2608508

The way I figure, until science can recreate the Spark of Life, that thing which gives us sentience and makes us more than a pile of elements, my fall back answer is some sort of god. Whether or not this is a loving god or not is another story.

But either way, it doesn't matter much to me if there is a god or not. Though I'd love to have a chat with Satan over a cup of tea.

>> No.2608514

Of course I believe in God. I am God.

>> No.2608517

>>2608514
Been meaning to tell you this.

Fuck you.

>> No.2608519

>>2608453
>>2608467

Sorry to hear all that.

>> No.2608531

>>2608508
I don't think sentience is such an awesome reason to believe in a god. Science can explain sentience, right?

>> No.2608532

>>2608514
Hi dad.

>> No.2608536

>>2608532

Hello.

>> No.2608542

Naw. I just don't care. If God wanted to be praised or acknowledge then he would show himself.

>> No.2608554

>>2608542
What if that's not what he wants?

>> No.2608558

>>2608554
I wouldn't change a thing in my life.

>> No.2608565

>>2608558
why should you?

>> No.2608567

Yes. Abrahamic Panentheist.

>> No.2608597

>>2608288
>accuses both sides of trying to feel superior
>calls them "children" and "morons" who "should be exiled"

>> No.2608608

The existence of something like reincarnation, God, Jesus, etc. is very far outside the realm of what appears plausible based on my experience. It's an extraordinary claim, requiring extraordinary evidence, and so far everything I've seen is questionable at the very best. So I don't believe in God anymore than I do in werewolves or zombies.

>> No.2608612

>>2608608

Historians generally agree that Jesus existed.

>> No.2608616

No.

Reason: all religion is basically just speculative metaphysics

>> No.2608621

>>2608612
There's some historical evidence that a Jew around 30 AD believed he was the Son of God, sure, but that's obviously not what I mean. Alexander was a real person, too, but that doesn't give me a reason to believe in Zeus.

>> No.2608624

>>2608621

You said, and I quote

"The existence of... Jesus... is very far outside the realm of what appears plausible"

If you didn't actually mean that, you should be more careful about what you say.

>> No.2608625

>>2608616

>Reason: all religion is basically just speculative metaphysics

That's what most language is too.

>> No.2608626

>>2608624
Jesus the Son of God. The meaning is obvious in context, nerd.

>> No.2608628

>>2608616

>Reason: all religion is basically just speculative metaphysics

What's wrong with speculative metaphysics?

>> No.2608634

>>2608626

Meaning is never obvious. The only way I can come to meaning is by reading the words you have given me. Reading means looking at the word and determining what it signifies. Jesus signifies a historical person who most likely existed. You contradicted this signification by saying he most likely did not. I pointed this out.

Say what you mean. Don't even think your intended meaning becomes embedded in the word.

>> No.2608635

>>2608625
wat?

Language is system of communication that employs spoken and written symbols to convey knowledge. It is governed by universal rules of phonology, morphology, semantics, syntax, and pragmatics. Most importantly the production and comprehension of language arises out of neurological substrates that can be studied empirically.

>> No.2608637

>>2608635

You've employed at least seven metaphysical concepts. Can you spot them all?

>> No.2608643

>>2608634
In context it clearly signifies the divine being. You can tell because it's placed in a list of things >very far outside the realm of what appears plausible based on my experience that >requir[e] extraordinary evidence, a list 1st century cult leaders would not appear in. There's no need to insert an entire phrase there to clarify it when the rest of the sentence already does that while also expressing additional meaning.

>> No.2608652

>>2608643

So if I say

The existence of Jesus, God, Carrots, Zeus, and Magic are all rather implausible in my experience.

You're going to assume that I mean anthropomorphic carrots living on Mars? Because that's actually what I mean.

>> No.2608656

>>2608628
There's nothing WRONG with speculative metaphysics, per se. It's just that it rests on extremely shaky epistemological grounds. Whereas empiricism employs a feedback loop of a posteriori observation that allows one to judge the accuracy of one's knowledge, no such thing exists when it comes to religion. Instead, religion seeks to acquire knowledge through revelation -- a method of investigation that is woefully inadequate for anything other than... well, speculation. Also, all truth criteria in speculative metaphysics are necessarily personal in nature, which is one of the reasons why there is such a dizzying array of religions, sects, denominations, texts, commentary and practices.

>> No.2608665

>>2608621
Alexander is my god.

>> No.2608666

>>2608652
Uh, no, because "carrots" referring to that concept would be very unusual. "Jesus" to refer to the Son of God and the not the historical figure, however, is extremely common. It's reasonable to expect the reader to be capable of making basic inferences, but to make absurd ones like that.

>> No.2608676

I wasn't raised believing God would punish me if I didn't believe in him so no. It's odd how that works, actually.

>> No.2608689

>>2608676
there are pleanty of churches that don't use negative reinforcement to gain members, you know.

>> No.2608703

I'm a Catholic. I was raised Catholic. Logically, I know that there's no inherent need to believe in God, but I do anyway because it makes everything easier.

I go to church regularly.

>> No.2608718

“God is inside you and inside everybody else. But only them that search for it inside find it. And sometimes it just manifest itself even if you not looking, or don't know what you looking for. Trouble for most folks be God ain't a he or a she, but a It.”

>> No.2608757
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2608757

i was atheist from about when i could first start wrapping my mind around such questions, all though high school, college, and grad school--during which time my atheist beliefs were strengthened by reading pharyngula, watching mr. deity, watching youtube videos of dawkins & reading some of his articles, etc., etc.

my mom is atheist agnostic, and my dad is theist but doesn't attend church and seems to lack any sort of fixed set of beliefs, and indeed i notice that he lacks any sort of guiding principles in his own life, instead employing certain beliefs when convenient. so i never had any motivation to become religious due to my upbringing.

that said, i decided to become religious in the christian model of the abrahamic/monotheistic school of belief (not the jewish model b/c the hebrew covenants are a bit shit). this is only because, for reasons quite unknown to me, my life is easier and goes better when i profess belief in, & pray to, God.

(this doesn't sway my "belief in" (if you could call it that--more like, awareness of the facts regarding) evolution by natural selection.)

>> No.2608761

Raised Catholic, definitely am not one. I think there is a "higher power" but it's not remotely human-like or definable. I'm an agnostic so yeah.

>> No.2608958

"I’ll be honest about it. It is not atheists who get stuck in my craw, but agnostics. Doubt is useful for a while. We must all pass through the garden of Gethsemane. If Christ played with doubt, so must we. If Christ spent an anguished night in prayer, if He burst out from the Cross, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” then surely we are also permitted to doubt. But we must move on. To choose doubt as a philosophy of life is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation."

>> No.2608968

>>2608958
alright mr. quotations, there's a neat quote i lost and haven't been able to find, maybe you can help me? i'm asking because it also concerns agnostics. it's something about "as lifeless/flaccid as the battle-cry of the agnostic"

>> No.2608980

There may be a god, but I look around and realise that there is no reason to believe in him if he can let the world get so fucked up.

>> No.2608982 [DELETED] 

"The only little difficulty that I have about
joining the Catholic Church is that I do not think I believe in God. All the rest of the Catholic system is so obviously right and so obviously superior to anything else, that I cannot imagine anyone having any doubt about it."

I would certainly be a Catholic if I believed in any kind of God. Perhaps unfortunately, I do not.

>> No.2608992

"The only little difficulty that I have about joining the Catholic Church is that I do not think I believe in God. All the rest of the Catholic system is so obviously right and so obviously superior to anything else, that I cannot imagine anyone having any doubt about it."

I would certainly be a Catholic if I believed in any kind of God. Perhaps unfortunately, I do not.

>> No.2608996

I was raised Catholic and stuck with it for as long as I could bear mostly just because I thought it was cool to have some kind of very slightly offbeat, vaguely ethnic identity going for me. It all fell apart when I decided that I didn't think abortion was wrong, but it was probably doomed from the moment that I began to experience gay desire and didn't feel any spiritually-based guilt or shame over it. Although really I guess knew something was up when my parents started taking me to church as a little kid and praying didn't feel like anything more significant than sitting in a weird position and saying things in my head to nobody.

>> No.2609005

>>2608157
Totally valid point.

>> No.2609098
File: 39 KB, 400x400, 1286854443395.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2609098

there is a God, otherwise how else is it that the strength of NPCs is higher whenever i level up?

>> No.2609351

No.

Why not? There are a multitude of reasons from science to philosophy to history that compel me not to believe. I guess it just makes the most sense to me in the end--that is the non-existence of a personal God.

I mean, if there really was a God as described by monotheism then it would and should be blatantly obvious. It's easy to disprove that kind of personal, benevolent God but the mysterious and cosmic creator God is another thing entirely.

I don't really believe in either though.

>> No.2609810

>>2609098
It's because you're playing a MMORPG.

>> No.2609919

Like many other people that are educated and have wisdom, I also say that God doesn't exist in terms that we can fully understand. After analyzing our religious past, from believing in many gods to having religions with only one god. All come to a realization that god is within us and we are makers of our own reality. Not saying we can bend reality but we do have choices that make our reality all the time. Maybe god is there to find what we all have in the first place.

Take an alcoholic for example. They go to AA and AA has a lot to do with God. Finding that they aren't alone when God is there, then finding they have the power inside themselves all along. Making the right choices to better themselves.

Who knows that you would have to accept god in the first place to achieve this enlightenment, like I did. Or just accept that our choices make our reality.

So to answer your question I do believe in God.

>> No.2609924

Of course I believe in Alan Watts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1LzVN8nqg0

>> No.2609935

I don't know if I believe in God, or a god.

I believe that there are things in the universe that I don't yet understand. Whether or not those things are God or gods remains to be seen.

>> No.2609936

i think there's a god because intelligent effects have intelligent causes. Personally it takes about the same amount of faith as it does to believe in math or gravity or some shit, as it does to believe in god

>> No.2609938

>>2609936

In what way, exactly, does belief in math or gravity require faith?

Please elaborate.

Also, what do you mean by 'intelligent effects have intelligent causes.' Are you saying the universe is an 'intelligent effect'? What reason do you have to think that?

>> No.2609940

God exists but I don't believe in him. Things that exist don't require belief in order to be.

>> No.2609941

>>2609936
>i think there's a god because intelligent effects have intelligent causes.

Reminds of this nun I know names Sequitur LOL

>> No.2609944

>>2609936

I'm inclined to agree to a certain extent. Things like gravity and mathematics are provable concepts but they're still concepts; you have to accept the principles of mathematics and gravity as they have been explained to you by others, much like religious teaching.

The only difference is something like gravity and numbers are more tangible and more easy to explain than the concept of god.

>> No.2609945

>>2609938

Not that guy, but math is entirely abstract, and any observation of it in physical reality suffers from the problem of induction.

It's just a construct that is useful. Whether it actually exists as part of the universe requires faith. I've spoken to people who actually believe in a platonic realm where math actually exists, and that we just discover it. Is that really very different from a religious belief?

>> No.2609947
File: 4 KB, 429x410, 1331690651550.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2609947

>>2609940

>> No.2609948

ITT: Kids who think they're too smart for reddit atheism

>> No.2609949

>where math actually exists
ahhah this is hilarious.

>> No.2609951

>>2609948

>implying anyone on r/atheism can do anything but circlejerk over how great they are for being atheist

>> No.2609952

>>2609948

It's funny the way these social things run full circle. Now it's the theists who are the edgy kids trying to be different.

>> No.2609953

>>2609949

Yeah, I find a realm where mathematical concepts are just sort of floating around kind of hard to believe too.

>> No.2609958

>>2609951
so? the response to r/atheism isn't any better. it's just kids defiant that they're not atheists without satisfactory reasons and this is probably the same kids who don't even practice a faith.

>> No.2609964

>>2609948
>ITT: people who think theyre better than shit

>> No.2609965

>>2609953
i wasnt talking of platonism, which is pretty amusing though, but rather of you choice of words that make you seem tremendously ignorant. one can understand what you meant to express though.
mathematics is a logical axiomatic sytem, not a belief. it is in the nature of axioms that they have to be assumed, this differs from irrational faith.
if you were to create a system in which the existence of god is necessaryas descartes and leibniz tried to do, you could claim your theism to be of an equal nature as mathematics is. this is not the case for all current belief systems known to me.

>> No.2609972

>>2609949
>>2609953

yep.

>> No.2609973

No. No evidence + if there are gods they are monsters

>> No.2609977

>>2609973
[citation needed]

>> No.2609981

>>2609965

>it is in the nature of axioms that they have to be assumed, this differs from irrational faith.

How so? Other than utility, which I already mentioned.

>> No.2609985

delete this thread. you didn't even try to disguise it

>> No.2609984

>>2609981
Because otherwise they are useless.

>> No.2609986

>>2609984

That's utility.

>> No.2609989

>>2609986
Damn, I can't possibly imagine how I didn't read that while still responding to your post. Excuse me.

>> No.2609997

>>2609986
wasnt me (>>2609965)
because of the act of acknowleding the fact that these propositions are axioms, impossible to be proven or disproved, but necessary to keep going. in this a axiomatic sytem is completely different from sheer belief.
they are not selected at random or at personal will, but because they represent the most basic principles one can think of and are the basis of all later reasoning.
a proposition concerning the existence of the gods can be deconstructed and broken down to these very principles, it is thus not on the same level.

>> No.2610021

>>2609997

So in other words, it's useful to hold them as true.

You ain't got nothing, pal. Your god is just as valid as any other.

>> No.2610077

We misgrew to survive Earth, so we're not fit to deal with pointlessness. The "truth" we're seeking is going to be more like "the universe exists because it has to" than something out of an epic novel. But it's not sad. One day we'll embrace the simplicity.

>> No.2610090

Spinoza, Tillich, and ibn Arabi were correct.

>> No.2610101

>>2610090
>ibn arabi
:))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

>> No.2610116
File: 5 KB, 250x250, 1302793546669.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2610116

>>2610101

>> No.2610167

No, and the burden of proof is on the positive party.

I wish there was a God, but, sadly, it's existence in the Christian sense doesn't seem to be a reality.

>> No.2610169

>>2610167
Maybe u shud read the bible. I certainly don't wish there was a god like the xtian one. That god wud be a horrible person, quite aptly described by Dawkins in his book. Thanks god there is no xtian god. ;)

>> No.2610174

>>2610169
>Maybe u shud
Maybe you should go see the rules: 18+, even on he blue boards. Please leave.

>> No.2610181

yo yo sup sup reddit

god is dum
religion iz dum
wimminz are stupid

DFW is good
e-readers are the future
tao lin
ayn rand

>> No.2610189

>>2610077
if it turned out that the existence of the universe was a logical necessity i would be fucking thrilled

>> No.2610210

I always fanicied the polyreligions to christianity and so forth. While the christian god preached love, I think if gods did exist, they probably wouldn't care. I mean, I'd image they'd feel about us the same way we feel about mice. Some of them are cute, and some of them are smart and fun, but most of them? Fuck em. Snap their necks as soon as they get too uppity and move in on your territory.

>> No.2610265

I don't believe in a god but I believe in a Universal Consciousness and the inter-connectedness of all things.

>> No.2610267

YES. YES I DO. THANKS FOR ASKING,

CHEERIO.