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/lit/ - Literature

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2597034 No.2597034 [Reply] [Original]

So, /lit/, how reserved are you about your communism (I mean this very broadly Galleanists, Trotskyites, Debordists, Marxist-Leninists, etc)? I find myself being rather secretive, considering I have a conservative roommate who I haven't had good relations with otherwise.

>> No.2597043

What's good about communism?

>> No.2597065

>>2597043

Disolution of states, social classes, the patriarchy, poverty, gender and race?

>> No.2597079

>>2597043

The end of the natural birth?

>> No.2597077

>>2597065

trololololo

>> No.2597082

>>2597065

Do you seriously not distinguish between practicality and ideology when deciding what to believe?

>> No.2597086

>>2597065
>Any of those
>Good

>> No.2597087
File: 18 KB, 225x338, 225px-Benjamin-sm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2597087

my roommate next year is a hardcore Republican, it looks like. Gonna display my Marx proudly. I was once like you, afraid of admitting my anticapitalist tendencies. be strong bro

>> No.2597094

>>2597082

He must want to dissolve practicality too.

>> No.2597097

>>2597087

Why are you a Marxist? I mean seriously, why?

>> No.2597102

>>2597097
I wouldn't call myself a Marxist, per se. I think Marx's critique of capitalism and concept of alienation are all incredibly cogent and pertinent. His formulation of communism is problematic, but his theoretical impetus can't be denied.

>> No.2597114

In my mind, the only good Marx did was plant a seed of doubt about hierarchical class structures in general.

>> No.2597123

>>2597114

But the question was addressed to "communists" not just Marxists.

>> No.2597128

>>2597114

that had been planted long ago

>> No.2597138

>>2597114

...But hadn't the French Revolution done that many decades before him? I don't see why hierarchical class structures have to be a bad thing, anyway. Aristocracy in the true sense of the word is desirable, IMO.

>> No.2597236
File: 81 KB, 795x525, sapeurs.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2597236

>>2597087

> mfw I'm anticapitalist, a free marketeer, and dream of neo–fuedalism

>> No.2597259

>>2597236
you should probably get a bigger pipe, my dude. than I can take "yf" seriously.

>> No.2597283
File: 27 KB, 320x240, 132755__beatty_l.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2597283

>>2597034
The conservative members of my family who found I had started to moderately left stoked a red glow in their eyes. Now, though they can bring up the Exxon-Valdez oil spill and proclaim it all cleaned up, you can't say anything in defense of sanity fact and reason.

I describe myself, to anyone who cares, as Progressive-liberal, Democratic-socialist, and anarchist-reformist. But a general drift to the left is all I hope for in this world.

Once I do get around to reading up on it I think I might skip the Soviets as a embarrassment

>> No.2597318
File: 10 KB, 279x305, stirner3.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2597318

>>2597034
I'm a poorfag Stirnerist who votes socialist and makes no secret of this being a wholly selfish strategy. People tend to respect that in a way.

Of course, rich folks understand selfishness better than anyone and leftists are happy that they at least get my vote.

>> No.2597323

>>2597318

Would you support a capitalist system if it were to make you wealthy despite having to accept the influence of capitalist power structures over you?

>> No.2597329

I'm not a commie.

I'm a conservative. That's right, deal with it faggots

>> No.2597331
File: 22 KB, 220x567, stirner5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2597331

>>2597323
You'd have to be more specific about the exact nature of "the influence of capitalist power structures". Could you give examples?

>> No.2597334

Marx just said a lot of bullshit.

>> No.2597343

>>2597334
nice argument... cant really argue with that huh

>> No.2597350

>>2597323

You'd be expected to submit to cultural norms, indentify with a gender and a race and be forced to see yourself as a gear in the apparatus supporting these indidivudal crushing systems. You'd have to exist int he system that supports the spectacle and goes against the materialist dialectic.

>> No.2597355

>>2597343

"The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles."

Think this statement is totally true? Read some history.

Think this is some strange stretch based on no serious research? Hey you're right!

>> No.2597358

>>2597138

Some people just deserve be slaves/serfs/proles amirite?

>>2597323

nah. success under capitalism is still capitalism. its like winning the retard race: even if you have billions in the end, life is still empty and meaningless as you devalue the world to the machinations of capital

>> No.2597365

>>2597350

The fuck is with you guys and gender? Gender roles have existed as long as humans have existed, it's a part of biology.

Racial stereotypes are another thing but if you seriously think society is badly inhibiting you with them then you're a silly fellow.

>> No.2597368

>>2597355
>some strange stretch based on no serious research
Think this statement is totally true? Read some history.
Think this is some strange stretch based on no serious research? Hey you're right!

>> No.2597369

>>2597365

>not undersanding the difference between sex and gender
>2012

>> No.2597374

>>2597355

>taken from the commiefesto

that shit was propaganda, not going to lie. but marxist-type histories (like A People's History of the US) are very edifying, and are full of primary sources so their legit. at the very least recent history starting with the enlightenment has been full of struggles between an elite class and a subjugated class (men/women, whites/non-whites, western/eastern on top of bourgesie/proletariat), so marx wasn't wrong to say that.

imo you haven't read any marx and/or are trolling

>> No.2597372

>>2597368

Your shallow witticism does not remove my point.

>> No.2597376
File: 32 KB, 608x480, stirner4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2597376

>>2597350
I would only do so if I were to become wealthy to the point of not having to work anymore without having to put a lot of effort in it. The latter is the most important. I would murder hundreds of people to live comfortably, start wars, genocides, hide the cure to cancer, anything, but I wouldn't work for it. I despise careerism and working in general.

The chance of me getting rich are obviously very slim. So I figured, might as well have a shitty little job and at least give the socialists my vote to tear down the system and make my proletarian life a bit more worthwhile.

>> No.2597377

>>2597369

I even said gender roles in the post. You're retarded.

>> No.2597382

>>2597376

No you wouldn't, unless you're a psychopath, which isn't what a Stirnerite is. The output of other people is good for you.

>> No.2597384

>>2597374

At the very least recent history has been full of a lot of things, you would attempt to reduce it to one thing?

>> No.2597386

>>2597377

>thinking gender roles are biologically determined
>calling someone else retarded

>> No.2597392

>>2597386

Gender roles are social and behavioral. Emphasis on behavioral.

>> No.2597396

>>2597392

You're still not making any sense unfortunately.

>> No.2597401
File: 20 KB, 320x320, stirner.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2597401

>>2597382
Stirnerism doesn't necessarily exclude psychopathy either. I don't consider myself a psychopath though, I consider myself very much capable of empathy. My empathy just isn't universal and is often second to my caring for myself.

If some one would offer me the kind of money to do what I want the rest of my life, I don't think there would be many limits to what I would do for it, provided that it wouldn't harm myself or the people I care for and that it wouldn't cost me a lot of effort.

>> No.2597403

>>2597365

where does it say on my penis, does it say i should never wear skirts, be aggressive, like sports, or play with action figures? this is a weaker argument than it would be for women, who have, on their vaginas and boobies, inscribed their roles in bigger, bolder letters and surprisingly, in comics sans.

>> No.2597409

>>2597396

look up behavioral in a dictionary

>> No.2597411

>>2597401

What you write counteracts what you write.

>> No.2597415

>>2597409

No, it's just that you're making an arguement that human bilogical behavior somehow dictates what we've come to know as gender roles.

It's just kind of silly, really.

>> No.2597418

>>2597384

reducing some event to a number of analyzable elements is something historians do in order to practice history. there would be entirely too much work otherwise.

viewing history through a marxist lens is a good way to understanding how subjected people felt during some event. most historians like to ignore how those people felt, given that history is written by winners and not losers. so a marxist history could be useful once, you know, we start allowing the losers to become part of society

>> No.2597427

>>2597415

I made the argument and it's rather plainly packed by simple definition. You are just calling it silly. Society has a part to play in gender roles... but so does our biology. And if society were to die and we were to be like chimps, gender roles would still be there.

>> No.2597433

>>2597418

>reducing some event to a number of analyzable elements is something historians do in order to practice history.

Ridiculous... perhaps in a class setting, but not among serious reflection.

>> No.2597437

>>2597427

>packed

lol meant backed

>> No.2597445

I'm not secretive about it at all. Not a show-off either, some people I know who are not into politics have known me for months or even years and still don't know I'm a marxist.

Some others have been offensive towards me because of it, but I try to keep cool. I was once or twice called "one of the few lefties I can respect" by hardcore right wing nut jobs, so it seems to be working well.

>> No.2597447
File: 107 KB, 1077x1107, stirner.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2597447

>>2597411
Elaborate. I think you're seeing contradictions that aren't there.

>> No.2597450

>>2597427

Well, yeah, only because we'd revert to primitive power structures. Your point remains silly, a scoiety such as ours has to do awaqy with gender and the natural birth. We're conscious of how these things restrain us and transcending them is just another matter of progress. The dialectic demands it, essentially, society will just continue to get more androgynous.

>> No.2597458

>>2597450

Heh, so, basically you want to ignore what you were just trying to tell me to instead tell me that nature is bad and that we must transcend it.

Thanks.

>> No.2597460

>>2597447

Hmm, well I suppose it's more that your mind floats in a massive pool of nothingness. I can't quite critique that place though.

>> No.2597464

>>2597458

What are you talking about? My argument has remained consistent, you're just an idiot.

>> No.2597468

>>2597460
Still, I wonder what you think what counteracts what in that post.

>> No.2597469

>>2597460

>implying nothingness doesn't originate from being-for-itself

Going full pleb.

>> No.2597470

>>2597464

"No, it's just that you're making an arguement that human bilogical behavior somehow dictates what we've come to know as gender roles. It's just kind of silly, really"

to

"Oh yeah biology does determine it but that stuff is bad we must transcend it!!!"

>> No.2597475

>>2597470

I said that human biology doesn't dictate that boys should wear blue and girls should wear pink. I said that surely if society were to collapse when would impose themselves over women because naturally they're more imposing, nothing else.

You're about as sharp as a marble, man.

>> No.2597480

>>2597475

You actually said neither of those things. Like, you literally never touched on either subject directly.

>> No.2597492

>>2597480

Whatever, you're not worth my time.

>> No.2597497

>>2597492

Thanks.

>> No.2597638

Proud libertarian.