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/lit/ - Literature

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2583322 No.2583322 [Reply] [Original]

What is it that's so great about Goethe?

I never quite got that...

>> No.2583324

Try reading him in German, moron.

It's like saying, "What's the deal with Shakespeare? The plots are kind of far-fetched."

>> No.2583328

I think he had a lot of good ideas in his works. Especially in Faust I. You have to remember what time his works are from. Also he was not only a writer/poet but did a shitload of other stuff.

Also I think if you are not German, it is hard to fully appreciat his stuff. I am German and I read Faust in school, but at that time it was a little to much for me. I reread it recently and I loved it. But well it is poetry, if you are not a fan of poetry, it probably is not for you.

>> No.2583331
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2583331

Perhaps the most intelligent individual in humanity's history.

>> No.2583337

Heavily influenced litature which is still noticable (if you can follow the tracks) today.

Of course nowdays his work isn't anything special anymore because everything new or interesting he created has long been copied and is now standard.

It's like asking what was so great about a certain revolutionary car of it's time.

Also interesting detail. Geothe's extremely fucked up second part of Faust, contains a scene of a Faust's assistant creating an artifical human in a glass with alchemy. Essentialy an early idea of science being used to create artifical human.

>> No.2583341

>>2583331
Hard to believe germany used to be a country with great poets and minds.

Maybe they should go back being a shitton of small countries under a single name. Certainly seemed to have been better for their culture.

>> No.2583343

Because he embodies Romanticism, he was indeed the first Romantic

Without him no Byron, no Wordsworth, Coleridge, Keats (without him no Symbolism, no Modernism, I guess). Regardless of how much you value these progressions in literature (I don't use progression in a teleological sense, don't worry), he's highly influential and about as important a proponent of the German language, as Shakespeare was of English and Dante of Florentine Italian. You may well find yourself enjoying his work, if you choose to read it. Faust part 2 is just insane, it breaks all the rules; the Werther books have their good qualities, although you might think it's a little histrionic (i wouldn't disagree)

>> No.2583349

>>2583341
Really? What about Sebald and the whole literary tradition behind him (probably in the top five best countries for literature in the 20th/21st century, below maybe America and level with France maybe)? What about Heidegger and Brentano?

>> No.2583352

I take it you have read it in german?

It is the flow of words. The simple arrangement and the rythm.
You could probably explain it like this:
There are lots of carpenters in the world.
There are those who can build normal tables.
Then there are those who can build tables of high quality.
Then there are those who can build tables that last for years to come.
Then there are those who can carve small ornaments into the table, giving it an artistical appeal.

And then there are those who build tables that last for years, are of high quality and which are artistically appealing.
Those are the carpenters who are both skilled with their tools and also talented from a creative point of view.

And that is pretty much what makes Goethe.

It's the same as with Shakespear or other writers that have been popular over the centuries.

Goethe is nothing else but a man who knew his shit.
That's all that is to know.

>> No.2583355

>>2583343
Didn't he reject Romanticism before Faust?

>> No.2583359

>>2583349
And what do they have nowdays? Gunther Grass.

Somewhere along the line after WW 2 they lost their edge which had allready been blunted by the creative exodus caused by the nazis.

It's worse with enough with their elite litature but their common literatur is suffering even more. They simply don't have writers of books for normal people anymore which could gain international fame.

>> No.2583364

>>2583359

You worthless bullshitter, you haven't a fucking clue what he was talking about.

>> No.2583372

>>2583355
Not rejecting.
But he was certainly a follower of sturm and drang.

Something he layed off later.

>> No.2583378

>>2583349
Just noticed that my local bookstore does not have a single novel from a german writer there, which isn't over 50 years old.

What the hell are they doing?

>> No.2583381

>>2583372
Weren't he and Shiller the ones who caused the Sturm und Drang movement?

>> No.2583397
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2583397

>And what do they have nowdays? Gunther Grass.

You act as if that was a bad thing

>> No.2583411

>>2583397
I think his work isn't that great. Just my personal opinion. But he seems to be the only one who is still regarded as great writer, with no other people even being popular known.

>> No.2583412
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2583412

>>2583381
I'm not sure if Schiller was actually causing anything.
At the time he was all about it Goethe had already gotten into classics.

When Schiller and Goethe first met it allegedly was a little bit like in this comic.

>> No.2583444

This seems like an appropriate time to ask.

I have recently considered reading The Flounder based on the idea that it may supplement some of the postmodern historical fiction I have been reading (Vollmann, Eco, Stephenson). Does anyone who has read it think I'll be satisfied?