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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 24 KB, 250x374, 250px-Anti-Oedipus,_1983_University_of_Minnesota_Press_edition.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2541914 No.2541914 [Reply] [Original]

Explain to me why this is not [citation needed] : the book?

>> No.2541916

Post-modernist epistemology only requires that an idea be palatable for a leftist audience, not that it be supported by evidence or true in any sort of objective sense.

>> No.2541919

>>2541916
0/10

>> No.2541933

>The great discovery of psychoanalysis was that of the production of desire, of the production of the unconscious. But once Oedipus entered the picture, the discovery was soon buried beneath the new brand of idealism: a classical theater was substituted for the unconscious as a factory: representation was substituted for the units of production of the unconscious; and an unconscious that was capable of nothing but expressing itself – in myth, tragedy, dreams – was substituted for the productive unconscious

How is this not self-evidently true?

>> No.2541935

>>2541919
>It is not what the intelligentsia thinks, therefore it is wrong. Q.E.D.

>> No.2541947

Everything is relative, therefore I can say literally anything and you can't prove me wrong.

>> No.2541952

>>2541933
So they defined the terminology?

>> No.2541955

>>2541935
>shots in the dark
I gave you your score, mate.

>> No.2541961

>assuming there is only one person in the world who disagrees with postmodernist lunacy

>> No.2541962

>>2541947
Me and my army can still kill you.
relativism --> might makes right

>> No.2541964

>>2541933
So basically they're complaining that industrial metaphors should be used to describe the unconscious as opposed to theatrical metaphors.

>> No.2541972

>>2541964

Basically. Which is funny because some of their other metaphors (like the rhizome) are so patently full of shit. Like power doesn't spread horizontally, or something... WTF?!!!

>> No.2541981
File: 29 KB, 402x388, viggo-tattoos-indianrunner.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2541981

>Start reading it
>Everything is machines.People are made up of machines Machines this, machines that. Make a funny on psychoanalysis.
>Suddenly...
>"Judge Schreber has sunbeams in his ass. A Solar Anus."

Thoroughly convinced that this is a work of comedy that should be read by all.

>> No.2541992

>>2541972
>Rhizome
>multiple, non-hierarchical entry and exit points in data representation and interpretation.

What is wrong about this?

>> No.2541999

>>2541955
You also proved his point.

>> No.2542017

hierarchy is the exercise of power. I would argue via Foucault that the internalization of the power relationship makes horizontal vectors the primary exercise of power because in hierarchies, it is in horizontal relationships that the exercise of power is most likely.

Who needs a boss when all the workers are jockeying for position?

And as for multiple entrance and exit points? So what? The argument is about power more than anything else.

>> No.2542032
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2542032

Bunk is bunk is bunk. Lots of names are dropped at lots of concepts are thrown at the reader, and very little comprehension or evidence seems to be in the possession of the authors.

>> No.2542057

When I hear Deleuze's ideas explained to me, I think they are very interesting and feel that they open up a kind of philosophy that doesn't take a human centered approach.

When I actually read Deleuze's famous texts I am convinced he spews forth bullshit at a thousand miles an hour.

His "What is Philosophy?" is pretty clear and readable though.

>> No.2542084

>>2542057
I agree. First i heard of Anti-Oedipus, i looked it up and felt it could be an extremely interesting work. Upon reading it, i threw that shit a thousand miles because i felt like someone was thoroughly desiring to fuck with me. There is some novelty shit in their but i can't get to the good stuff because it's only readable to two people. Maybe there is no good stuff.

It's also bankrupt as a philosophy because they never even question the inherent existence of desire. It's assumed as an anti thesis to Freud but it's still the same terminology and twisting it to the point of incomprehension.

>> No.2542090

If you disagree with a philosopher then you merely don't understand his works well enough to truly appreciate them.

Also, Lacan is the greatest psychologist of all time and the blank slate is a fact no matter how many white males (Pinker, ugh) attempt to disprove it.

>> No.2542093

The frankfurt school is all like this. You think they seem interesting at first, and the more you read the more unsupported it gets. The thing that gets me is that many of these guys fall back on using references to greek mythology as a metaphor for what they are describing. Lol what?

>> No.2542097
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2542097

>>2542090
>Also, Lacan is the greatest psychologist of all time
How do blind people discover their sense of individual identity without encountering mirrors?

>> No.2542100

>>2542090
Explain some Anti-Oedipus

>> No.2542152

If you read it as a work of philosophy or critique then it will suck hard.

Now...If you read it as a work fiction. It is the best kind of horrifying fantasy work. It's really entertaining in that respect so just use your imagination. You'll even understand the work better when you read it like a novel.

>> No.2542164

I'm assuming there's no one on /lit/ that actually likes deleuze, but if that isn't the case, can anyone give me a starting point to his work?

I've tried reading his essays on bergsonism but i have no fucking clue what's going on.

>> No.2542172

>>2542164
>i have no fucking clue what's going on.

His point is that no one has a fucking clue what's going.

>> No.2542182

>>2542172
I appreciate Foucault's judgement enough to think that Deleuze's project is more complex than that

>> No.2542184

>>2541999
I gave you your score, mate.

>> No.2542189

>>2542182
You miss the point of the post for it isn't meant in humor. Here is the gist of Anti Oedipus.

There are many forces which can take the advantage of people because they are afraid of being separated from humanity. All of this is also manifest in the fact that the reality society lives in is actually produced by machines. Production and desire is essential in society and cannot be repressed because they are the natural fact of and not the curious byproduct because. The schizophrenic exists then, by the notion of insanity, as the truly free person for he is not afraid to be separated from society. The fact is that he might not be insane at all but quite the opposite. He seeks to disconnect from the desired reality that the herd lives in.

Something like that but a lot more new terms being thrown at your face. Think of it like a Das Kapital to Freud. I advise for you, if you read it, to read it fast. Not like philosophical works of the past but like a Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas ordeal. Then the line of thought follows that of the books, which is itself schizo.

>> No.2542192

>>2542189
I missed shit out like people being desiring machines themselves and the post makes it out to be The Matrix. There is no metaphysics in the actual work and it isn't a pondering on reality as truth but rather redefining what reality qualifies as.

>> No.2542194

>>2542093

Hey ho. You obviously do not know about the large scale empirical work the frankfurt school undertook, such as their pioneering use of the survey to study the links between psychological orientation and political affiliation.

You only read a couple chapters of Dialectic of Enlightenment and passive-aggressively derided their close reading of Homeric mythology.

The difference between the Frankfurt School and Deleuze is that the former actually amassed huge amounts of evidence for their arguments, and didn't just pick and choose little fragments from the history of philosophy to support their obfuscatory arguments.

>> No.2542204

>>2542194
Can't it be argued that evidence itself is something which is quite variable in nature. Both had preferred ways of thinking and followed/reacted to selected traditions.

>> No.2542227

Sure is early grad school in here.

>>2542204

Of fucking course evidence is different. The Frankfurt school combined their extensive knowledge of philosophy to empirical sociology, thereby buttressing the weaknesses of each with the strengths of the other.

And then you have D&G who only used philosophical methods.

>> No.2542243

>Can't
understand D&G
>It's post-modern shit

>Can't understand Lacan
>It's post-modern shit

>Can't understand Aquinas
>It's scholastic shit

>> No.2542246

What if crazy people were, like, actually sane and sane people were really crazy, man? Also, what if this idea became popular with people whose political opinions are rejected by the sane?

>> No.2542259

>>2542246
It isn't celebration of insanity. That is explicitly stated within the first 10 pages.

>> No.2542273

>>2542259
>> /lit/
>> expecting someone to read postmodernism/philosophy before commenting on it
ISHYGDDT

>> No.2542350
File: 31 KB, 550x300, MichelFoucault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2542350

>>2542243
>Vous m'avez mal compris; vous êtes idiot

>> No.2542356

I don't understand the link between schizophrenia and capitalism? In a communist system schizophrenia does exist.

>> No.2542359

>>2542356
If your ideas are fuzzy enough and you are ignorant enough of legitimate psychology then you can claim that schizophrenia is caused by culture, and thus will not occur outside of a capitalist system. The fact that this is obviously incorrect does not prevent people from believing it or using it as the basis for other arguments.

>> No.2542365

>>2542273
>expecting someone to read postmodernism/philosophy before commenting on it
I also comment on Islam and don't believe in Allah even though I haven't read the Koran.

>> No.2542370

>>2542356
the schizophrenia that deluze and guatari talk about is different to what are probably normal understandings of schizophrenia.

its one of the most retarded books ever written for this among many other reasons...but its still fun to read

>> No.2542375

>>2542359

This is freedom of speech even if it is incorrect.

Does schizophrenia always existed? No answer.

>> No.2542378

>>2542365
Good to know. I'm glad you shared this comment.

>> No.2542381
File: 29 KB, 220x381, 220px-Arielle_Dombasle_2000s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2542381

Dombasle: When i did that album I was in complete state of schizophrenia.

Animator: Fantastic, fabulous!

>> No.2542387

>>2542378
I'm glad you employ snark in place of intellectual argument. I like knowing that you're an empty, vapid, fraud who leeches off of the ambiguities of language to disguise your worthless mind.

>> No.2542396

>>2542387
It was more snark because you didn't present an argument.

You commenting on a different religion and not believing in it is different from you saying it is false and criticizing those who do believe in it.

In the instance that was presented here the poster misrepresenting the fundamental theses of Anti-Oedipus without having read or understood it. It would be similar to you commenting on Islam but having all of your comment be referencing buddhism

tl;dr: get a better analogy

>> No.2542411

>>2542387
Additionally I don't understand why so many people who criticize postmodernism get worked up when someone tells them they should actually read or attempt to understand the works.

It is exactly the same as when the "science master race" tells people they don't understand X field and thus shouldn't write about it. You gain the authority and knowledge to engage in something by reading and thinking about it.

>> No.2542668

>>2542356
This question is missing the point

D&G argue that the desiring machines that make up the capitalist system are inexplicably interwoven. They are challenging the idea of dealing with capitalism through a lens of psychoanalysis, ie combating individual instances in a reactive manner. Instead, they compare capitalism to the schizo, just as desiring machines are interwoven the schizo's mind is composed of interwoven fractured realities. Therfore they advocate viewing capitalism through the lens of schizoanalysis, a method D&G created and is explained more in depth towards the end of the book.

>>2542359
>>2542370
These are people who either don't understand or haven't actually read D&G. This argument is one of the most prominent in Anti Oedipus.

>> No.2542673

>>2542097
here's the kicker: they don't :o

>> No.2544549

>>2542668

I'm >>2542356, It makes sense now, thank you!

>> No.2544595

>>2542411
Perhaps because there is nothing to understand in pomo, or that the authors are deliberately being obscure. In either case, I don't want to read it and it is bad usage of time to read.

>> No.2544597

>>2544595
See
>>2542243

>> No.2544739

i sweat to god you fucking continental postmodernists are the bane of my existence. you ruined it. you ruined philosophy for all of us you worthless pieces of shit. you know nothing. die.

>> No.2544747

>>2544739
they said the same thing about humanists 300 years ago

>> No.2544795

>>2544747
whatever. i pray to god pomo is just the whats 'fashionable' right now, but i havent been alive long enough to know

>> No.2544803

>>2544747
citation needed

>> No.2544821

>>2544803
I would give you one if I had access to the Vatican archives

>> No.2546054

>>2544821

Quick, someone call Dan Brown !

>> No.2546059

>this whole thread

citation needed

>> No.2546096

>>2544747
humanists are pretty shitty philosophers too