/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.2473129]

>Discussing this novel in class
>everyone starts talking about how Heinlein apparently wanted Nazis to take over the world
>raise hand
>ignored by female teacher for ten minutes until young student female tells her that I've been waiting
>ask why expecting people to pay for their mistakes and at the same time getting them rewards for working hard is supporting facism
>whole class stares at me like I just denied the holocaust to happen
>professor sends me an email via the blackboard system to not raise my hand in class anymore if I'm going to act like that afterwards

Why the fuck are the 'intellectual elite' at any given university a bunch of limp-wristed fuckheads?

[Anonymous No.2473133]

But Heinlein actually was a fascist.

[Anonymous No.2473132]

>intellectual elite

That is truly hilarious.

[Anonymous No.2473137]

>>2473133

How? The book certainly doesn't promote any form of fascism whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.2473143]

>>2473137
Take into account that the average western young adult regards anything to the right of social democracy as fascism at this point.

[Anonymous No.2473145]

>>2473137

He once supported a one world government that would strong arm the human race into not using nuclear weapons.

[Anonymous No.2473157]

>>2473137
Are you sure? You can draw parallels between how the future society described in the book is organized and past fascist countries.

They probably over-reacted though and yeah...

>intellectual elite
lol

[Anonymous No.2473169]

>>2473145

You know, most scientists say these days that we would not survive getting nuked, so maybe that's a good solution.

[Anonymous No.2473183]

>>2473157
fascism is a good thing tho.

Our fucking worthless decadent shitholes aren't good places to live in.

>>2473129
Because OP, that's the modern leftist mindset and behavior.

[Anonymous No.2473191]

>>2473169

I'd rather be dead than under the boot of tyranny.

[Anonymous No.2473193]

>>2473191

Grow up. If I put a gun to your head and told you to suck my dick, you'd do it instantly. And hey, if you actually would rather die than suck a dick, good on you.

Btw you dont get to make that decision for everyone else.

[Anonymous No.2473194]

>>2473183
>fascism is a good thing tho.
Somehow I knew this thread was building up to this.

>intellectual elite
>limp-wristed fuckheads
I guess using words like commie or liberal is too much of a red flag.

[Anonymous No.2473195]

>>2473191

Your preferences don't make Heinlein a fascist if he supports an world government to avoid what he felt was certain destruction. Especially when he was a noted progressive on several other issues.

The stupid thing is that he, and anybody else in intellectual circles, will be given that label for being a military fanatic. It's not the same thing.

[Anonymous No.2473197]

I fucking loved Robert Heinlein. He just told it as it was, just like George Carlin, Bill Hicks, or David Hume.

[Anonymous No.2473199]

>>2473191
I bet you don't even try to fight your traffic tickets so don't even fucking talk.
These fascist countries had less tyranny then we live under.
Plus they had a government run by patriots instead of genocidal traitors.

[Anonymous No.2473200]

I love all the people here not realizing that Heinlein played with lots of different socio–political arrangements throughout his novels and imagine that this one book represents his ideal.

[Anonymous No.2473206]

>>2473199

I don't drive a car.

And dying is not the same as fighting. It's a whole lot easier.

[Anonymous No.2473208]

>>2473137

Can't vote unless you are in the military or are a veteran
Politics dominated by the military

Sounds pretty fascist to me

[Anonymous No.2473213]

>>2473208
do you even know what fascism is about?

[Anonymous No.2473212]

>>2473208

>is unable to discern between the the environment in a book and its message

my god

[Anonymous No.2473216]

>>2473193
No, no. No, motherfucker. *You* don't get to make the decision for everyone else to live under tyranny. It's not the same. Freedom is default, and therefore no one is having a decision forced on them. Tyranny is a different story.

[Anonymous No.2473217]

>>2473208

> Missed the part where alternate government service was accepted.

> Missed how working for the government or joining the military for the franchise was looked down upon by the capitalist classes that dominate fascist policy.

[Anonymous No.2473220]

>>2473217
>2012
>thinking "classes" matter

[Anonymous No.2473224]

>>2473133

Cut the libelous shit.

[Anonymous No.2473227]

>>2473213

Yes fuckwit I do. Its what happens when patriotism becomes extreme nationalism and the military is the government. It is exactly what is represented in the book. I'm not saying Heinlein was a fascist just that the book had some fascist undertones. If you can't see it you are a moron. I read this book over twenty years ago and all really remember about it was that military service was required to vote.

[Anonymous No.2473229]

>>2473227

> The military becomes the government

So… Italy and Germany were never fascist, but plenty of left wing Latin American dictatorships have been. Wut.

[A HUGE FAGGOT No.2473233]

>>2473220
Of course classes matter, what kind of bullshit is that?? Things like level of income, profession, level of education of parents as well as self are strongly corelated with voting behaviour, taste in music, political convictions, religious convictions, chance to develop certain illnesses, chance that offspring will attain a certain status, etc...
You believe for one minute that for instance politicians and marketing specialists dont actively keep in mind groups of people distinguished on the basis of differences that really just constitute class difference? That is just completely naieve.

[Anonymous No.2473236]

>>2473227

see, >>2473217

Military service was not required to vote, but as you don't even understand what fascism is, I guess I'm not surprised that you can't even read the thread.

[Anonymous No.2473238]

>>2473229

No. Those are usually communist. They differ from fascism in that they think everyone is created and should always be equal, which is also bullshit.

[Anonymous No.2473242]

>>2473227
nationalism is about the nation, patriotism is about the country.

two different things.
Naturally if you love your own race and nation, you will fight for it against its enemies.

>I read this book over twenty years ago
hurrrr

[Anonymous No.2473243]

>>2473236
I read it twenty years ago. My bad. Forced government service is also bullshit.

[Anonymous No.2473244]

>>2473238

You missed my point, which was that you can have a military dictatorship that was communist and fascist nations where the military is in uneasy relation with the government. The point was that the poster who thinks fascism = military–centric government is a moron, not that left wing military dictatorships are fascist.

[Anonymous No.2473245]

>>2473233
That's not class you fucker, that's race and blood and ancestry.

this is why Hitler was right, and marx was wrong.

[Anonymous No.2473246]

>>2473243

> Forced.

No one is forced, did you even read the fucking book, or a summary of it and then watched the movie which basically tries to destroy its source material by hugely misrepresenting it?

[Anonymous No.2473249]

How naive do you have to be about history, ape psychology, and plain sense to think that "national" "fascism", in response to the guy going "hyuk fascism good", would lead to things running better.

As opposed to cronyism, cynicism, personality cultism, and a promotion of PR that was equal to that enabled in our modern tech regime USING 1930-1940s TECH. Imagine an actual "Hitler" with the resources of today's tech!

God it's bad enough that we already have the domination of instinctual lying built into our institutions, "Dept. Of Defense" as opposed to offense, "Dept. of Education" as opposed to Propaganda, etc.

[Anonymous No.2473248]

>>2473245
No, Marx was left.

[Anonymous No.2473250]

>>2473248

/rimshot

[Anonymous No.2473252]

>>2473249
Hitler was a great man, shut up.
Nazi Germany was a free country much like our countries.

[Anonymous No.2473254]

>>2473244

They have an uneasy relationship with the government until the fascist paramilitary becomes the military jack ass.

[Anonymous No.2473255]

>>2473252

babby's first troll

[Anonymous No.2473256]

>>2473252

Hitler was a political genius who happened to exist at the time of Radio before mass television could turn him into a grotesque buffoon as opposed to his primary representation to the masses as an impressive orator of force.

[Anonymous No.2473257]

>>2473254

> Implying that happened in Germany or Italy.

The SS paramilitary never replaced the Wehrmacht, and parts of the Fascist–founded military were opposed to the paramilitary. I know, I know, actual history is hard rather than snap judgments to keep your bullshit view derived from WW2 movies and superficial histories intact, but wtf, man.

[Anonymous No.2473261]

>>2473246
You can't vote without government service. I promise I read the fucking book in the early nineties.

[Anonymous No.2473265]

>>2473255
its true you douchebag, they had trials, free speech and free movement. Or are you one of those who believes all the victors propaganda you see? After all, why would our governments lie to us?

>>2473256
How would mass television turn him into a buffoon? Are you talking as if he would have permitted the jewish media to spread non-stop propaganda against him? You know they did that anyways in USA/britain/etc?

>>2473254
da fuq
hitler killed a loyal supporter, the leader of the SA, and then put them under the Wehrmacht.

[Anonymous No.2473275]

>>2473265
>they had trials, free speech and free movement
>jewish media to spread non-stop propaganda against him
>hitler killed a loyal supporter, the leader of the SA

[A HUGE FAGGOT No.2473282]

Fascism is a political ideology which claims that the integrity of the political entity (usually "the people") is the highest political good and that therefor the focus of all human development should actively by placed in accumulating state power. People should be ensuring this by putting themselves in service of the state. All further ideology is subservient to this principle. The only real restriction or "enemy" of power of the state is located in principles or agencies that are considered alien to whatever it is that integrates the political entity in principle under that state (usually nation but not always). This demands that patriotism or extreme nationalism is upheld as a natural virtue. Power is allowed to trickle down through a comprehensive system of corporatism (do not confuse corporations with companies). Liberties are allowed in so far as they dont hinder or actively promote state power but are nonetheless strictly regulated through designated corporations and the agencies that execute state power directly. For instance, free market economy can be allowed but on the sole condition that the state can intervene in any way at any time. Liberty can also occur as a privilege for those in power because it gives them more leverage to administer said power, which can lead to a paradoxical kind of "those who are fit to make rules are fit to break them" attitude. The state is seen as the real subject of the political and interpretation of the political is severely restricted to integrity of the state, therefore fascism is ahumanist and often anti-humanist.
The perceived inherent emphasis on race and darwinism is actually specific to Nazism, not fascism in general. However, it is often applied as a mere ideological means (i.e. propaganda) in other forms of fascism.

[Anonymous No.2473298]

>>2473265

You're arguing semantics. Hitler would not have come to power without the SA. When he integrated them into the Wehrmacht they became part of the German military. A fascist nation is a militaristic nation. See below link argue with the webmaster if you want.

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

[Anonymous No.2473303]

>>2473282

Thank you for spelling this out clearly. Unfortunately, I'm almost certain it will do nothing to stop the banter here and make stormfrontfag go away.

[Anonymous No.2473308]

Fascism gets a bad rap.

The metrosexual glee faggots could use something forcing them to stop being such femboys and start being men again.

Plus women should be put in their place.

[Anonymous No.2473309]

Are there any good pro-fascist books or books supporting strong Empires/dictatorships.

Preferably space related but I'm open to anything.

[Anonymous No.2473311]

>>2473298
this list was obviously made by a communist.

>>2473303
I'm not sure what part of his post was supposed to be bad. Perhaps you could outline it?

[Anonymous No.2473312]

>>2473308
Yes, and watch out for that Obama fellow, he's a bad egg.

Seriously, you're either a lousy troll or 90 years old.

[Anonymous No.2473317]

>>2473282

origins on image plx thx

[Anonymous No.2473323]

>>2473309
Dune might be right up your alley. Paul, the protagonist, becomes the emperor of the known universe and commits mass genocide for dubious reasons.

[Anonymous No.2473322]

>>2473317
http://www.danypeschl.com/portfolio/4-disturbation/statement

[Anonymous No.2473328]

>>2473323
How is that fascist? fascist countries have no need or want to commit genocide, they aren't tyrants or butchers. And they tend to be firmly in power.

[Anonymous No.2473329]

>>2473261

Explain how that means you are "forced".

[Anonymous No.2473344]

>>2473312

I'm 20 and not a troll.

I just think people need to stop pretending everyone is equal and stop outlawing competition and not be afraid to put Chinese and Indians to the sword.

[A HUGE FAGGOT No.2473348]

>>2473245
Any ethnic group can occupy any class position, that is a fact. The reason that ethnic groups in certain societies occupy predominantly one class position is perfectly explained by racist tendencies in said society. But even within such a society (US is a perfect example really) you can see that people of the etnicity favoured by the dominant classes can just as well take these positions (i.e. white trash).

It is not a coincidence that, in America today, most ethnic fashist type ideology occurs within these favoured etnicity segments of the shit tier classes. i.e. mr joe white trash is butthurt about his class position, best thing he can think of is desperately try to clamber on the shoulders of the guy nearest to him, which happens to be tyrone the ghetto nigger. Mr uppity upper class is only too pleased to see that joe white trash our of pure pride doesnt want to realise his problem is really a class problem. Because then he would be smart enough to team up with tyrone against mr uppity and hed get a shot at not being mr uppity's tool for all eternity.
Furthermore, mr uppity is quite safe from a fascist takeover, since joe doesnt have the kind of civic discipline, political awareness and activist zeal that is required for a fascist revolution.

[Anonymous No.2473349]

[Anonymous No.2473354]

>>2473348
>clueless commie comes along and suggests poor whites to team up with niggers

filtered

[Anonymous No.2473355]

>>2473329
It doesn't. You are correct that they weren't forced. I read the book a long time ago and remembered that there was some stipulation on voting. I was in the reserves at the time and our CO said everyone in the company had to read it. That actually happened. Obviously he was a fascist.

[Anonymous No.2473362]

>>2473355
?
It's on the reading list for most of the military.

[A HUGE FAGGOT No.2473366]

However, mr tidy whitey the all american waspy suburban git does. But he has always been sort of too historically aware and too much of a good citisen to really take fascism seriously. However, mr uppity has not been giving tidy an easy time lately. And although tidy is usually a nice guy, he can turn out to be the nastiest of the lot of them when you take a pee on his porch. Now, both joe and tidy have been using the internet a lot lately, since theyre both sort of out of a job most of the time lately. Tidy really thinks joe is really just sort of a scrub and joe thinks that tidey is really some up tight sissy who doesnt know about real life, but their differences are soon settled when they realise they share a lot of grievances that they didnt seem to share before. Now mr uppity gets a bit nervous. However, uppity is a man of superb education and he remembers fascism from history classes. He particularly remembers how fascist revolutions are dependend on an elite to administer power down through corporatist style popular movements. He then remembers how sentiments of patriotism and forlorn national glory are used instrumentally to achieve their politcal goals.

Mr uppity then invites joe and tidy to a picknick where they get to dress up as colonists and indians and enact romanticised events from the american revolution.

[Anonymous No.2473371]

>>2473362

Didn't know that. I just thought our CO was being stupid. Most people probably didn't read it. I'll read anything once.

[Anonymous No.2473378]

>>2473366
typical anti-white liberal piece of shit
why don't you go post your walls of text somewhere else.

[A HUGE FAGGOT No.2473379]

>>2473317
this little thing called "the internet hate machine".

[Anonymous No.2473383]

>>2473355

That's usually because it's considered one of the most accurate portrayals of the psychological realities of boot camp. More than one friend who has gone through boot has confirmed this.

[A HUGE FAGGOT No.2473395]

>>2473378
lol, stormfag cant handle that all the momentum from fascist tendencies in American society are being absorbed into some generic wingnut denomination like "the tea party movement", instead of into his precious white trash boyscout clubs.

[Anonymous No.2473745]

ITT: OP makes up a story about what happens at his university, then uses it to generalise about
>any given university