[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 583 KB, 720x520, 5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2460506 No.2460506 [Reply] [Original]

Valeo, si vales, /lit/!
Welcome to Catullus’s Latin for /lit/. Over the course of the next few weeks, I will be giving forty lessons that will give you an elemental grasp of the Latin language. I will be giving a lesson every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at around 7:00 PM EST, and hopefully in these months you will be given the skills to understand and translate the Latin language.
These lessons will consist of grammar, vocabulary, and translation of pieces of actual Roman literature. I base my lessons on Wheelock’s Latin, a textbook of which I will link, and I will serve primarily as a guide who will keep you on track and answer questions. I am a transmitter, not a creator. ALL credit goes to Frederic M. Wheelock and Richard A. LaFleur. I encourage you to not work ahead, and to keep all questions relevant to the current chapter and those preceding it. I understand many of you have studied Latin before, but please be respectful of those who are just starting out.

Here are very helpful links:
Wheelock’s Latin 6th Edition: http://www.mediafire.com/?9deacpb8jocga17
Pronunciation: http://wheelockslatin.com/chapters/introduction/introduction.html
Vocabulary Drill: http://www.warmenhoven.org/latin/vocab/

And now we will begin with the lesson.

>> No.2460509

CAPVT I: Verbs of the 1st and 2nd Conjugation

Verbs in Latin display five characteristics: Person, Number, Tense, Mood, and Voice. Person answers who the subject is (1st/2nd/3rd); number is how many subjects (singular/plural); tense is when the action happened (present/future/imperfect*/perfect*/future perfect*/pluperfect*); mood is the state of being in the verb (indicative/imperative/subjunctive*); voice is whether the subject performs the action (active) or receives the action (passive). All of these concepts are used in English, but rarely are we taught them in school.

Latin is divided into four conjugations of verbs that affect how they are formed. For now, we are only dealing with two of them. Latin verbs are given a dictionary definition of four principal parts followed by the definition. For example, the dictionary definition of the verb laudo would be: laudo, laudare, laudavi, laudatum, “to praise.” MEMORIZE ALL FOUR PRINCIPAL PARTS. As someone who didn’t think that was necessary, let me tell you, you’ll be going back and rememorizing everything in a few chapters. We determine the conjugation by looking at the second principal part (laudare) and looking at the final three letters. In the first conjugation, it ends in -are; for the second, -Ere**; third, -ere; fourth, -ire.

>> No.2460511

cont.

For chapter one, we are learning the Present Active INDICATIVE of verbs. This means that the verb will indicate a fact that is presently happening. An example is: “He praises.” We also learn the Present Active INFINITIVE, which takes the form of “to praise.” The INFINITIVE is formed by the second principal part (laudare) by itself. The INDICATIVE is formed by taking the second principal part (laudare) and dropping the ending (-re) and adding what is known as personal endings, which tells us the person and number.

They are as follows:
1st person singular: -o or -m (laudo*** “I praise”)
2nd person singular: -s (laudas “you praise”)
3rd person singular: -t (laudat “he/she/it praises”)
1st person plural: -mus (laudamus “we praise”)
2nd person plural: -tis (laudatis “you pl. praise”)
3rd person plural: -nt (laudant “they praise”)

*If you don’t know what these mean, don’t worry, we’ll deal with them later.
**I’m not a stickler for macrons, but they’re the only way to tell 2nd and 3rd conjugations apart. The capital letter in place of a macron indicates a long vowel.
*** For 1st person singular, use the 1st principal part as it is.

>> No.2460514

VOCABVLA:
Inside of the parentheses are English derivatives. In some definitions are a few idioms Romans used, which do not translate entirely well or give the full meaning.

Chapter Part of Speech Latin English
1 pronoun me me, myself
1 pronoun quid What
1 noun (indeclinable) nihil, n. Nothing (nil, nihilism, annihilate)
1 adverb non Not
1 adverb saepe Often
1 conjunction si If
1 verb (1) amo, amare, amavi, amatum to love, like; amabo te: idiom for “please” or literally “I will love you” (amorous, Amanda)
1 verb (1) cogito, cogitare, cogitavi, cogitatum to think, ponder, consider, plan (cogitate)
1 verb (2) debeo, debEre, debui, debitum to owe; ought, must (debt)
1 verb (1) do, dare, dedi, datum to give, offer (date, data, dative)

>> No.2460517

cont.


1 verb (1) erro, errare, erravi, erratum to wander, err, go astray, be mistaken (errant, error, erratic)
1 verb (1) laudo, laudare, laudavi, laudatum to praise (laud)
1 verb (2) moneo, monEre, monui, monitum to remind, advise, warn (premonition, admonish)
1 verb (2) salveo, salvEre, -, - to be well, be in good health; salve and salvete idiom for “hello” (salvation)
1 verb (1) servo, servare, servavi, servatum to preserve, save, keep, guard (reserve)
1 verb (1) conservo, conservare, conservavi, conservatum to preserve, conserve, maintain; stronger than servo (conserve)
1 verb (2) terreo, terrEre, terrui, territum to frighten, terrify (terror, terrible, deter)
1 verb (2) valeo, valEre, valui, valiturum to be strong, have power; be well; vale and valete idiom for “good-bye, farewell” (prevail, valedictorian)
1 verb (2) video, vidEre, vidi, visum to see; observe, understand (video, evident)
1 verb (1) voco, vocare, vocavi, vocatum to call, summon (evoke, invoke, advocate)

>> No.2460522

Sentences to translate (please use spoilers in your translations. Later, when the sentences are more complex, I will break them down to help you all.)
1. Labor me vocat.
2. MonE me, si erro—amabo te!
3. Quid debEmus cogitare?
4. Conservate me!
5. Me non amat.
6. Nihil me terret.
7. Apollo me seape servat.
8. Salvete!—quid videtis? Nihil vidEmus.
9. Saepe nihil cogitas.
10. Si valEs, valEo.
Starting next week, nearly all of the sentences used will be quotes from Roman literature. Today’s words had to be constructed for simplicity’s sake.
That’s all for CAPVT I. If you have any difficultly, let me know. Once again, if you want more in-depth explanation, I have linked Wheelock’s Latin 6th Edition. I ask that you check-in to the thread (so I can see how many are participating) and I highly encourage you all to namefag/tripfag so I can keep track of who’s who. Thanks!

>> No.2460569

Catullus is a gentleman and a scholar.


1. No idea... does labor mean work? Work to summon myself?
2. Warn me, if I err-- please!
3. What do you think of it?
4. Protect me!
5. I love her/him/it not.
6. I fear nothing
7. Apollo often protects me.
8. Hello! What do you all understand? You understand nothing.
9. Often you ponder nothing.
10. If well, goodbye.


I'm not good with languages though.

>> No.2460576

How do I into spoilers?
Do they even work on lit?

>> No.2460588

>>2460576
[ spoiler]
 ^Remove that space there.
[ /spoiler]
 ^Remove that space there.

You're done.

>> No.2460589

>>2460576
Just take away the spaces in the brackets:
[spoiler ] [/spoiler ]

>> No.2460592

Salve Catulle
1. Work calls me
2. Warn me, if I err, please!
3. What ought we to think?
4. Save me!
5. S/he does not love me.
6. Nothing frightens me
7. Apollo often saves me
8. Hello! What are you seeing? We see nothing
9. You often thing nothing
10. If you are well, I am well

>> No.2460598

>>2460569
1. Yes, labor means work. "Work calls me." Wheelock introduces the infinitive here, but you get properly introduced to it later.

>> No.2460614

1. Work calls.(Work she calls me)
2. Let me know if im tripping b.(Advise me if i err, please.)
3. What ought we to think.
4. Help me!. ()
5. She don't love me bruh.(She does not love me.)
6. I aint never scared. (Nothing scares me.)
7. Apollo often keeps me.
8. Hello.-what do you all see. We see nothing.
9. You dont know shit. (Often you think not.)
10. If you are strong so am I. (Si tu vas, voy.)

That last one is awkward in English but doable in Romance languages.

>> No.2460617

What does "Carpe Deim" mean?

>> No.2460621

>>2460617
The Day Is A Carp.

>> No.2460628

>>2460621
Thanks, coach, now I know what Dead Poets Society was about.

>> No.2460635

****ANSWER KEY. DO NOT READ UNTIL YOU HAVE ATTEMPTED THE SENTENCES. OTHERWISE THEY WILL DO YOU NO GOOD.****

1. Work calls me.

2. Warn me if I err--please!

3. What ought we think?

4. Save me!

5. (S)he doesn't love me.

6. Nothing terrifies me.

7. Apollo often guards me.

8. Hello!--what do you see? We see nothing.

9. You often think nothing.

10. If you are well, I am well.

>> No.2460642

Catullus, try to link to the old thread in each new post, you can access them this way easier from the ghost boards. Also it might be a good idea to get a blog to post some of the older lessons on.

>> No.2460653

>>2460642

Catullus you might could add a Latin section to the /lit/ wiki and add screenshots of your lessons.

>> No.2460659

>>2460569
3. Look at the ending of the verb. 1st person plural. The verb should in this sense should be translated as ought/should. You also added the words "of it" which aren't in the text.
5. Again, verb ending. 3rd person singular. Therefore, he or she. You have omitted me, which translates as "me."
8. The verb endings of the two verbs are different, reflect on that. Video generally means "to see."
10. Valeo is not being used as an idiom, but literally: "I am well."

You're doing fine. It can take a while to get adjusted to another language, but once you get in rhythm you'll get the hang of it. Keep at it!

>> No.2460675

>>2460635
A-ha! Even I am corrected. For #3, >>2460614 and
>>2460592 are correct; "to think."

>> No.2460692

>>2460642
Will do for the linking. I don't want to create a blog, but I'm happy to save and compile each lesson as a word file.

>> No.2460703

>>2460522
>>2460569
I'm pretty new to Latin but I think #6 would be "nihil (subj.) me (obj.) terret (verb - frightens)". Am I wrong, OP?

Timeo is fear, terreo is frighten. Timid and terrified are derivatives, which can help.

>> No.2460718

>>2460703
Yes, that is correct. I forgot to put that on the correction to Behemoth. Thank you.

>> No.2460732

I'll do this, but I won't be able to get my answers up for a bit.

>> No.2460746
File: 23 KB, 744x255, ch1reading.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2460746

>> No.2460755

if i had a microphone i would try to read the sentences and post it on vocaroo

>> No.2460764

>>2460755
Do you have previous experience in Latin, Marcus?

>> No.2460767

>>2460746
Maecenas and Virgil call me today. What ought I to think? What ought I to respond? If I err, they often warn and blame me; if I do not err, the praise me. What ought I to think today?

>> No.2460770

e punem obscuritus

>> No.2460781

>>2460746

Maecenas and Vergilius summon me today. What to think of this? What to respond?If I err they will oft remind me and hold me culpable; if I do not err, they will praise me. What to think of this today?

Im not sure how debeo should be used here.
Any advise Catullus.

>> No.2460782

>>2460764
A little. A year maybe. Self taught, so I'm very insecure about pronunciation.

>> No.2460791

>>2460782
Follow the pronunciation on Wheelock's website. Personally I don't focus on it too much, since I only use it to read.

>> No.2460802

>>2460791

You don't focus on pronunciation bro?
How does that work when reading poetry?
Shame, a shame on House Valerii.

>> No.2460842

>>2460802
You're right, it is important for poetry. I guess when you study for a while, it comes naturally. Rarely had I an instructor lay down the rules of pronunciation. Roman poetry is especially one of the most rewarding parts of knowing Latin, so I don't suggest just ignoring pronunciation entirely.

>> No.2460845

You guys should be careful not to mix different tenses, or translate by inferring. Try to translate very literally at first, otherwise you're opening the door to problems later on. For example:

Quid cogitare debeo?
>What - to think (infinitive) - I ought (present active indicative)

me saepe monent et culpant
>me (obj. accus.) - often (adj.) - monent (they [implied subj.] warn, present active indicative) and culpant (they blame, present active indicative)

So, "what ought I to do?", to "what should I do?", and "they often blame and warn me". It's tempting to translate as "they WILL often.." or other things that are actually distinct tenses, and then you'll end up with a mess. 90% of Latin, aside from memorizing vocabulary, is just learning the difference between the tenses, and how to conjugate them. It's pretty rigid.

Debeo in the first lesson also scares me because it's an annoying verb that has to take the Infinitive, and those can often be interpreted with the active+infinitive combo as the subject of the sentence. Infinitive verbs are faggots to start out with. The Cambridge text actually leaves them to the second segment.

>> No.2460863

Wheelock's is the worst way to learn latin

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~wcd/Latin.htm

>> No.2460857

>>2460845
Er, often (adv.)***

Probably made other mistakes too.

Just a student here, but that's the stuff I see people struggle with the most. They wing it early in the course, translate by inferring, and when it comes time to distinguish perfect, pluperfect, imperfect, present, future and future perfect in a single snippet, they shit the bed.

>> No.2460871

>>2460845
Their use in Wheelock's in negligible until Chapter 25, where it is properly introduced. I have no idea why Wheelock introduces it here, but I decided to include it in case it comes up before Chapter 25.

>> No.2460898

>>2460863
Wheelock's is essentially the Steps 1 and 2 of that method. If you want to do supplemental reading of Lingua Latina afterwards, then go for it.

>> No.2460918

Nice idea, OP.
Not completely sure about some of them; I didn't quite understand the -E suffix (more precisely, the different three conjugations).

1. Work calls me.
2. Tell me if I'm wrong -- please!
3. What should we ponder? (think about/over ?)
4. Preserve me!
5. He/she does not love me.
6. Nothing frightens me.
7. Apollo saves/saved me often.
8. Hello! -- What do you see? We see nothing.
9. You often consider nothing.
10. If you're well, I'm well.

>> No.2460974

>>2460918
Verbs in Latin are divided into four conjugations. The conjugations are distinguished by the second principal part (the second word in the dictionary definition) and its ending.

-are is 1st conjugation
-Ere is 2nd conjugation
-ere is 3rd conjugation
-ire is 4th conjugation

I use a capital E on the second to distinguish it from the third. The E is long, e is short. Most Latin teachers use a macron (a line over a letter) to show it is long. However, Romans had no such marks.

>> No.2460976

>>2460918
>I didn't quite understand the -E suffix
Me neither.

Love you OP. I forgot about my resolution to start learning Latin this year!

>> No.2460984

>>2460974

Are the main 4 parts of a verb just the forms for the different tenses and moods?

>> No.2460995

>>2460984
Essentially, but we will learn their uses later. Just be sure you remember them.

>> No.2461004

So, Catullus, will you return on Wednesday then?

>> No.2461019

>>2461004
Indeed. I will also still be checking this thread, so hopefully it stays alive as long as possible.

>> No.2461043

>>2460984
The -Are (long a) -Ere (long e) -ere (divided into two groups) -Ire (long i) ending things are the "families" of conjugations of verbs. That's their infinitive. Their endings in the pres. indic. active first person are, respectively, -o, -eo, -o, -io (for the second -ere group), and io.

So,
1st 2nd 3a 3b 4
>portAre docEre trahere cupere audIre
porto doceo traho cupio audio

They all conjugate differently depending on their tense and mood. There are also many many exceptions, ranging from totally irregular verbs to minor irregularities in individual verbs. Welcome to Latin.

>> No.2461050

>>2461043
Well, the formatting fucked up by removing additional spacing, but hopefully it's still possible to figure out.

>> No.2461193

Thank you all for working diligently. Continue asking questions; I shall answer them in the morning.

>> No.2462029

Alright, new morning, ready for new questions.

>> No.2462037

>>2460781
Debeo means both "to owe" and "ought/should." The latter definition fits here.

>> No.2462049

>>2460511
Puerum laudat.

>> No.2462087
File: 36 KB, 495x638, 1330536655406.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2462087

Ave Catullus,

My sincere regards for your generous dedication.

May I advise to keep an online journal of the lessons, for us who can not attend at all times, to follow your teachings whenever is possible.

>> No.2462281

oh you wanker i was LITERALLY going to do this

ill do an ancient greek one
look out for it

>> No.2462285

also, I'd advise you all to get Kennedy's Latin Primer.

its the one I use at university in Oxford

>> No.2462288

>>2462285
Oxford Brookes has a classics department?

>> No.2462365

>>2462281
Follow through.

>> No.2462524

>>2462288
very funny
ridens sum, pathice
iam, futute mater tua edeque cacam, vernula regi Africani

>> No.2463086

>>2462285
I've never used Kennedy's Latin Primer, but I encourage you all to do any supplementary work you wish. There are many approaches to learning Latin, and I think a combination of sources will allow for it to go more smoothly.

>> No.2463106

>>2462087
I'm saving a word document of each lesson that I can upload, until I find a better method of recording lessons.

>> No.2463350

CAPVT II tomorrow, hopefully around 7:00 to 8:00 PM EST.

>> No.2463361

>ridens sum, pathice

What sort of Latin are they teaching at Oxford these days? "Rideo" suffices: "ridens sum" looks like a solecism. Also, "cinaede" would probably be closer to what you were getting at than "pathice".

O tempora, o mores....

>> No.2463372

>>2460863
This has spooked me into thinking I'm going to spend 6 years learning nothing.

But I don't want to spend the next 6 months memorizing conjugations by rote "just in case".

>> No.2463444

Let me try using Latin, OP:

Ok, here it goes:

ay yo mang whe da niiggas at it be dem fuk oh shi nigga wut

>> No.2463474

>>2463372

Don't worry. If that article was right then Latin would have died out in the Middle Ages because no one could read it and Russian, which is also highly inflected, would be completely unintelligible. Wheelock's eventually teaches all the noun cases (maybe not the best way pedagogically) so you'll be fine. Your brain will naturally adapt to reading sentences out of order to match the conjugations and cases.

>> No.2463826

>>2463474
This. You'll be fine.

>> No.2465719

CAPVT II is posted.
>>2465703
>>2465703
>>2465703

>> No.2465719,1 [INTERNAL] 

Thank you Catullus, I wish you were still around.