/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.2452062]

Are the problems of blacks due to false consciousness and commodity fetishism?

[Anonymous No.2452063]

When, long ago, the gods created Earth
In Jove's fair image Man was shaped at birth.
The beasts for lesser parts were next designed;
Yet were they too remote from humankind.
To fill the gap, and join the rest to Man,
Th'Olympian host conceiv'd a clever plan.
A beast they wrought, in semi-human figure,
Filled it with vice, and called the thing a Nigger.

[Anonymous No.2452071]

>>2452063

I love Lovecraft.

[Anonymous No.2452076]

>>2452062

I think you mean

>Are the problems with society due to false consciousness and commodity fetishism?

"never have so many been manipulated so much, by so few"- Aldous Huxley

[Anonymous No.2452084]

Yeah, maybe. I thought Kanye West summed it up pretty well in 'All Falls Down'

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kyWDhB_QeI&ob=av3e

>It seems we living the America dream / The people highest up got the lowest self esteem / And the prettiest people do the ugliest things / For the road to riches and diamond rings

We shine because they hate us, floss cause they degrade us
We trying to buy back our 40 acres
And for that paper, look how low we a stoop
Even if you in a Benz, you still a nigga in a coupe

[Anonymous No.2452085]

little wayne is my nigga

[Anonymous No.2452091]

>>2452084
I prefer Talib Kweli's social criticism. He's far more well-read than Kanye.

That said, black socially conscious rappers in charge of being hypocritical

[Anonymous No.2452106]

>>2452091
Yeah, well, Kanye HAS completely gone the other way since that poignant social criticism, but I'm still enthused by it.

[wurthlessnurd !ep9r.cUM7Y No.2452119]

Theory: Rap is the anti-Blues.
Think about it.
Blues: "I got no money, my woman left me, police arrest me just for being drunk"
Rap: "I got gold chains and Cadillacs, I can fuck any bitch I want, I pop a cap in yo ass and no one arrests me"
Basically, I think they come from the same place; it's just that one side is bemoaning the truth and the other side is aggressively denying it.

[Anonymous No.2452128]

>>2452119
>>2452084

Good stuff. I wish somebody smarter than me would write an academic piece on black society in 21st century America.

[Anonymous No.2452135]

> be black
> my people get taken from our indigenous homeland
> spread out throughout the world to work as slaves
> grow up in foreign country i don't belong in and have no spiritual investment in
> be completely emancipated
> white people call me dumb and claim I have "false consciousness" and "commodity fetishism"
> mfw

[Anonymous No.2452151]

>>2452084

I wanna act ballerific like it's all terrific
I got a couple past due bills, I won't get specific
I got a problem with spending before I get it
We all self conscious I'm just the first to admit it

[Anonymous No.2452155]

>>2452135
I know that feel bro.

[Anonymous No.2452157]

>>2452135

you fucking fag. your homeland both was and still is, shit. you were sold by your own people. and that has less than nothing to do with you, today, so man up and stop being a stereotype. you're american, period.

[Anonymous No.2452159]

>>2452135
Just blow em away, Omar. You're the hardest nigga on the streets.

[Standard Toaster !RQTOASTvfI No.2452162]

I can understand black folk who live outside of Africa having problems because you know the whole "we were taken from our native land etc. etc." thing (which I honestly think is a stupid argument).
But what the fuck is up with the Africans in Africa itself? They're so technologically fucked and their civilization is so far behind that it's disgusting. It's the year 2012 C.E., and they're not even at the level that most civilizations were at in the year 2000 B.C.E.

[Anonymous No.2452166]

>>2452151

>I say fuck the police, thats how I treat em
>We buy our way out of jail, but we can't buy freedom
>We'll buy a lot of clothes when we don't really need em
>Things we buy to cover up what's inside
>Cause they make us hate ourself and love they wealth
>That's why shortys hollering "where the ballas' at?"
>Drug dealer buy Jordans, crackhead buy crack
>And a white man get paid off of all of that


it's like, so zeitgeist, ya kno?

[Anonymous No.2452174]

>>2452135

[Anonymous No.2452176]

>>2452135

Way to bait stormfags to my thread with cliches, you fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.2452186]

>300 years no schools
>100 years sub standard schools

[Anonymous No.2452189]

>>2452162

Really a popular misconception if all you see of Africa is whatever's on Discovery and Animal Planet. Most cities in Africa are a lot more than woods and huts. Not any worse than many places in Asia, Eastern Europe and South America.

[Anonymous No.2452190]

>>2452157
>>2452174
>>2452176

all in the game,yo. all in the game.

[Anonymous No.2452197]

>>2452189
Doesn't mention US
>There's a reason for that

[Anonymous No.2452199]

>>2452197

Sure, the US. Everywhere in the world there's slums.

[Anonymous No.2452202]

>>2452135

So you look black people in America and see no dysfunction whatsoever? Or at least no dysfunction that can't be explained away with "m-muh slavery"?

[Standard Toaster !RQTOASTvfI No.2452203]

>>2452189
Most of those places are the places that grew out of European colonies, South Africa especially.

[Anonymous No.2452204]

>>2452176

Fuck you mean cliches? those are my fucking genuine feelings you ignorant asshole.

Ever heard of the word Karma? well, you plantation colonial fucks have seen nothing yet, let me assure you.

[Anonymous No.2452205]

>>2452199

"Slums" in the US are like the good parts of cities in some places I've traveled. Sierra Leone, for one, doesn't have good parts that aren't privately secured and almost exclusively foreign.

[Anonymous No.2452212]

>>2452204

forgot to add pic of mfw as i wrote that.

[Anonymous No.2452217]

>>2452203

Yep, but it's cities nonetheless. Fishers teach men how to fish and for the most part, the cities are maintained by their own skilled inhabitants.

>>2452205

Yeah.

>>2452204

Cliches exactly. And you're obviously some white kid baiting people into venomous anti-black spews.

[Anonymous No.2452218]

>>2452204

> 2012
> Believes in karma

[Standard Toaster !RQTOASTvfI No.2452224]

>>2452217
Fair enough. But that doesn't answer the point of why the rest of Africa is so far behind. The ones who didn't receive outside help.

[Anonymous No.2452229]

>>2452217
> spews

The more educated amongst us would of opted for the word diatribes.

Just saying.

P.S. you really do appear out of your depth on this subject matter.

[Anonymous No.2452239]

>>2452224

Those tribes you see on television have a hostile attitude towards modernity. It's really that simple. If they dropped their backwoods cultures for modern cosmopolitanism, I'm sure they'd go to school and get some work skills to build their countries up.

The problem with "derp they're just dums" is that it assumes these people in loincloths somehow want to try out modern civilization but can't due to cranial capacity and being retarded. The facts on the ground are that they don't try at all and don't care to. They enjoy primitive, traditional lifestyles. I say the metro, civilized Africans should force them to get job skills, work and contribute to their nations economies and drop the tribe shit.

[Anonymous No.2452241]

>>2452229
>The more educated amongst us would of opted for the word diatribes.

Light-skinned black hipster detected.

[Anonymous No.2452250]

>>2452239

A good parallel to this traditional/modern divide in a more advanced society is Israel with it's Haredim problem. You have a people who live this insular traditional lifestyle, wage culture war against modernity and contribute nothing for all the hell they give the moderns. The only solution is tough love from those who believe in modernity. Make these people give up traditional, primitive ways of living. Make them go to school and get real jobs.

[Standard Toaster !RQTOASTvfI No.2452253]

>>2452239
It would probably work in the long run, but it would be a violent road to the end result. If they did get their shit together as a continent, though, that'd be really swell.

[Anonymous No.2452254]

you are all getting trolled so hard by a whiteboy

There are no black people on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.2452256]

>>2452239

Indeed, and for all that they are also the most content and happiest people I have ever seen.

You won't hear of them having an existential crisis' unlike portly american brats living in their parents basement.

[Anonymous No.2452302]

>>2452256
Content and happy isn't what I strive for.

I won't pull levers in factories. Won't happen.

[Anonymous No.2452319]

>>2452239

They have median IQs that are borderline retarded.

And before someone rolls in all "HERP HERP CULTURAL BIAS"— they actually work hard to structure IQ exams to filter that out. That's why its known that Australian Aborigines have high visual IQ, but extremely low aggregate IQ.

[Frigid Northlander !!MUgE+GiXSgQ No.2452322]

>OP's question

Both

Worshipping pop culture as a major facet of how you define your ethnic identity will get the job done, really.

This is the one of the areas of sociology that probably needs attention the most - why/how group identity can ruin a group - but it won't ever get it, because it's taboo. Shame.

[Anonymous No.2453015]

>>2452062
>false consciousness
What.

[Anonymous No.2453026]

>>2452217
>the cities are maintained by their own skilled inhabitants.

lol not in the slightest

[Anonymous No.2453039]

>>2452239
No, blacks ARE dumb as shit, you'd know this if you have had anything to do with them.

[Anonymous No.2453307]

they are subhuman apes.

[None !!22qbPSLZwrI No.2453322]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/intelligence-study-links-prejudice_n_1237796.html

bigotry linked to low iq scores. research is real regardless if you like huffpo or not. enjoy your idiocy, retards.

>mfw

[Anonymous No.2453327]

>>2453307

It's funny, no matter how many times Rushton and Jensen are discredited, racists keep bringing them up.

It's almost like they're got absolutely nothing else.

[Anonymous No.2453334]

Low IQ.

[Anonymous No.2453342]

>>2452119
Spoken like a guy who listens to no hip hop. Do you not realise that most of it has nothing to do with the braggadocio garbage you're describing?

I'm consistently surprised at how hip hop is so quickly totally dismissed based on shit-tier populist examples from the genre. Lil Wayne and Kanye West do not represent hip hop, in much the same way that Nickelback does not represent alt-rock and Yanni does not represent contemporary classical composition.

[Anonymous No.2453344]

That's a problem for most proles, tbh. No matter what the ethnicity.

[Anonymous No.2453349]

>>2453322

http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf

Being black linked to low IQ scores. Research is real regardless if you like the APA. Enjoy your idiocy, retards.

>mfw if you cite that study you agree that intelligence is a quantifiable trait that can be measured accurately by an IQ test
>mfw blacks still score 15 points lower than a racist white

[Anonymous No.2453358]

>>2453349
>Rushton

Seriously? lol

[Anonymous No.2453360]

>>2453327

AWWW SHIT NIGGUH, WE ABOUT TO GET MINNESOTA TRANSRACIAL ADOPTION STUDY ON YO ASS.

Race realists REPRESENT.

http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~maccoun/PP279_Neisser2.html

[Anonymous No.2453362]

What do you mean by false consciousness?

[Anonymous No.2453364]

>>2453358

Where has it been disproved?

It's a well known fact that blacks score, on average, 1 SD lower than whites on IQ tests. It's agreed upon across the board, so why deny it?

[Anonymous No.2453369]

>>2453364
>Where has it been disproved?
>implying Rushton could prove he has a penis
Most of that paper is him trying to justify to himself that the research isn't flawed.

[Anonymous No.2453374]

>>2453369

>ignores the fact that blacks score lower than whites on IQ tests
>offers no counter evidence

>librullll logic

[Anonymous No.2453375]

>>2453374
There first must be something to counter. The only reason people even argue this shit is some pretense of politeness.

[Anonymous No.2453376]

>mfw blacks look to black celebrities and entertainers for guidance and as role models

[Anonymous No.2453381]

>>2453375
people need a scapegoat for their own shortcomings.

[Anonymous No.2453382]

“Since the dawn of history the negro has owned the continent of Africa - rich beyond the dream of poet’s fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet. Yet he never picked one up from the dust until a white man showed to him its glittering light.

His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled. A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour.

In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud.

With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail.”

— Charles Darwin

[Anonymous No.2453386]

>>2453374
>hates the left
>posts images of castro

This is why I have to pretend to be a democrat in social surroundings.

[Anonymous No.2453387]

>>2453375

>There first must be something to counter.

Blacks have lower IQs on average than whites, according to IQ tests.

It's been repeated several times, stop trying to avoid the argument.

[Anonymous No.2453392]

>>2453386

I don't hate the left bro, but libs are just as guilty of promoting logical fallacies and magical thinking as conservitards.

[Anonymous No.2453395]

>>2453387
>The research is flawed, the researchers spend more time trying to argue its validity than presenting the findings
What about this are you having trouble understanding?

[Anonymous No.2453419]

>>2453395

>Still offering no proof that the research was flawed, the researches have followed up on their original findings with this report: http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/2010%20Review%20of%20Nisbett.pdf

>Genetic influences on brain structure determine intelligence:

http://www.loni.ucla.edu/~thompson/MEDIA/NN/Nature_Neuro2001_genetics.pdf

>James Watson on race and intelligence:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/fury-at-dna-pioneers-theory-africans-are-less-intelligent-
than-westerners-394898.html

>Blacks themselves admit there is a massive gap in SAT scores (which correlate highly with intelligence):

http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html

Liberal told status:

[ ] Told
[ ] Fucking Told
[X] Gary Toldman in "Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Get Told"

[Anonymous No.2453431]

>>2453419
>Referencing a hidden G
>Compulsively dividing people by vague notions of race
>Citing a newspaper article

[Anonymous No.2453442]

I started out being skeptical of Rushton, Jensen (Nyborg etc.) but then I read their papers. The more I read, the more I like them. Their critics are not very good. One can read their responding papers to the 2005 article and see for oneself. There were basically full of moralistic fallacies, i.e., it is wrong, therefore, it is false.

[Anonymous No.2453451]

>Are the problems of blacks

What problems?

[Anonymous No.2453458]

>>2452062
if yes, the same could be said for all groups of people.

[Anonymous No.2453470]

The problem with blacks is their relatively low IQ. Average IQ is strongly correllated with a races success.

Look at the 3% of Jews in america that make up half the billionares (the jewish IQ is 15 points higher than whites, 30 points higher than blacks).

Look at the 4% chinese in indonesia that control the countries entire economy (10 points higher IQ on average)

INB4 someone tries to argue that the higher IQs reflect socioeconomic status and not vice versa. If you think that, you are wrong.

[Anonymous No.2453472]

>>2453419
>HURRR TOLD

Says the neonazi citing newspaper articles and not providing a direct link to the research produced by the researchers themselves. Get back to us when you actually have the peer-reviewed articles of those researchers for us to read. To help you out, they're normally published in scientific journals.

Remember, the burden of proof is on you.

[Mwai Kibaki No.2453474]

"Come at me, bro"-Mwai Kibaki

[Anonymous No.2453477]

>>2453472

>Remember, the burden of proof is on you.
>proceeds to post no proof.

[Anonymous No.2453481]

I kind of feel bad about contributing to this discussion, but I think racism is a shameful thing and that people should be judged by their individual merits, but it's hard to keep this sort of ethos when you visit mugshots.org and >85% of all violent crime in my area is committed by blacks, who account for less than 22% of the population here. I realize that social inequality will lead to an uneducated group of people, but there's no excusing this type of behavior. Not under any circumstances.

[Anonymous No.2453482]

>>2453472

"Get back to us when you actually have the peer-reviewed articles of those researchers for us to read."

Get back to us when you prove that blacks don't score 15 points lower on general intelligence tests.

[Anonymous No.2453483]

>>2453472

No, retard. The burden of proof is on you.

Millions of years of isolated evolution SHOULD produce difference is in intelligence. You are the one who should have to prove the that it did not.

Everyone knows blacks make better sprinters than whites.
Everyone knows that scandinavians are taller than asians
ect ect

It is your burden to prove that intelligence is any different from these other traits.

protip: Its not.

[Anonymous No.2453487]

This argument is boring as shit. People who keep denying racial differences are blind to the reality around them. Look at the state of blacks in America, Europe, and in Africa.

[Anonymous No.2453488]

>>2453477
You're the one posting newspaper articles. All I'm asking for is evidence that supports your argument. Articles from peer-reviewed scientific journals, articles that aren't jsut referenced by some newslink, but articles we can actually read.

inb4 "hurrr do it yourself, this isn't school niggerlover durrr"

[Anonymous No.2453493]

>>2453483
>SHOULD produce difference is in intelligence.
>Its not.

[Anonymous No.2453499]

>>2453493

>posting on /lit/
>can't read

[Anonymous No.2453501]

>>2453470
Blacks in the US, yes. Blacks in sub-Sahara are at ~70, i.e., there is about 3sd between Ashkenazi Jews and blacks in Africa. Pretty wild. Some of that is due to nutrition etc., but not that much. Probably the genotypic black IQ is about 80-90. Remember that blacks in the US have ~20% white genes.

[Anonymous No.2453505]

>>2453488

I've given you evidence from the APA, as well as other reputable sources. Why are you not posting evidence to the contrary?

[Anonymous No.2453510]

>>2453483

Evolution works via selection pressures. If different populations of humans evolved to have the exact same intelligence mean, that would be strange. That would imply that they have had been subjected to the exact same evolutionary selection for intelligence despite living in very different environments. I find that too hard to believe.

[Anonymous No.2453512]

>>2453477
>>2453482
>>2453483
Mad in the butt.

[Anonymous No.2453516]

>>2453512

Sure is ad hominem in here.

Jesus /lit/, I thought you were better than that.

[Anonymous No.2453523]

>>2453481

Yes, everyone should be assessed individually. No one disagrees with that AFAIK. There is only disagreement about the averages of different populations of humans. There are smart and dumb people of every kind. But it would be hard to find an Ashkenazi Jew who was dumber than a black person born in sub-Saharan Africa.

[Anonymous No.2453529]

>>2453481
this

[Anonymous No.2453538]

Everybody please stfu, i'll answer all questions the retards need answered.

1. The Caucasoide is seperated into a race spectrum, that goes Aryan, Semite, Hamite, within these there are sub-races each has varying characteristics.

2. The Negroid race has no spectrum, but is seperated by sub-races.

3. The average Negroid from Kenya, Sudan and Ethiopia, has Hamite blood in them.

4. The Egyptians were Hamites (as are all arabs)

5. From these let's say this, Caucasians are better at architecture, art, music, tactics, strategy, producing medecine and they are smarter and better inventors.

6. Negroids on the other hand, have higher fertility rates, have more muscle tone, less likely to get skin cancer, gain fat faster and lose it faster, gain muscle faster and lose it faster and they are more violent.

English isn't my first language, btw sorry for mistakes

[Anonymous No.2453540]

>>2453510

Indeed.

The cold climates of europe and northeast asia are much more harsh. They require hunting during the winter where there is hardly any accessible plant foods. This means that societies must have been organized, they had to ration food, they had become adept at hunting and tracking ect ect, This all requires intelligence.

Compare this to sub-saharan africa where survival is relatively easy year round. Most selective pressure was sexual rather than environmental.

More selective pressure for intelligence on whites and asians than africans. It just makes a lot of sense.

[Anonymous No.2453546]

>>2453540

>Charles Darwin and Herbert Spencer approve of this post.

[Anonymous No.2453556]

>>2453395
>the researchers spend more time trying to argue its validity

Because if they didn't, then you butthurt liberals would rise up in masses and condemn it as invalid.

[Anonymous No.2453578]

So many politically correct brainwashed liberals in here.

Quickly, get yourself sterilized, adopt a niglet, and have your wife impregnated by a nigger.

[Anonymous No.2453586]

[Anonymous No.2453588]

>>2453578

Don't forget cuckold porn.

[Anonymous No.2453596]

>>2453540
Noooo, I was told in school that anyone who says something like this is an evil, disgusting racist.
RACIST!

[Anonymous No.2453605]

>>2453556
It isn't comdemned as invalid, it just IS invalid.

[Anonymous No.2453610]

>>2453605
>It isn't comdemned as invalid, it just IS invalid.
>it just IS invalid.

TRANSLATION: If it clashes with my world view, its invalid.

[Anonymous No.2453619]

>>2453605

What? Got nothing to say to >>2453540 ?

[Anonymous No.2453623]

>>2453610
Well, yeah, how do you think one justifies or invalidates anything without a world view?

[Anonymous No.2453627]

Why is it so hard for people to believe that people who has lived in very different environments and cultures for thousands of years are different because natural selection has instilled various traits in them?

This is all easy and very observable, somwhy does so many choose to close their eyes and see reality for what it is?

[Anonymous No.2453629]

>>2453619
Swings and roundabouts. You only think it's difficult to grow your own in Europe compared to Africa because you haven't done either.

[Anonymous No.2453634]

>>2453627
And not see*

[Anonymous No.2453641]

>>2453629
Oh, it was hard. But in Africa the strong and fast produced more offspring insteqd of the intelligent.
Intelligence was simply not a trait that was selected for.

[Anonymous No.2453668]

This thread deserves an epigram in my approximation of Claude Levi-Strauss's statement that the only true barbarians are the people who believe in the existence of barbarians.

[Anonymous No.2453672]

>>2453668

[Anonymous No.2453705]

>>2453540

>Compare this to sub-saharan africa where survival is relatively easy year round. Most selective pressure was sexual rather than environmental.

I disagree.

But there are definitely different selection pressures.

[Anonymous No.2453717]

>>2453641

And isn't today either. Since the 1850s there has been selection against intelligence. The genotypic IQ is lower now than it was for white people. However, the phenotypic is higher due to better nutrition, enriching environments etc.

(Cf R. Lynn's Dysgenics)