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/lit/ - Literature

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2437064 No.2437064 [Reply] [Original]

I was wondering.

1- Man is just a highly evolved/ developed species of mammal(?)

2- Other species of mammal have different races that can interbreed (same species/ different race)?

3- e.g dachsund, terrier, rottweiller, etc; all types of the "dog" species, just different races?

4- Can we then assume that all races of the "dog" species have the same level of intelligence, utility, inherrent worth- given that all races of the human species (black/ white/ asian/ aboriginal, etc) have the same level of intelligence, utility, inherrent worth?

>> No.2437066

no, dogs have more pronounced biological differences than humans

>> No.2437069

You could postulate it, and it has been, but science hasn't borne it out.

>> No.2437076

>>2437066
But they still have some differences, right? Both species I mean- biological diversity amongst the races?

So it's just a matter of degree of difference? That the different inherrent levels of intelligence, etc, between dog races are just more pronounced than those in the human species?

But I still don't understand- different races of human all have the same intelligence, abilities, aptitudes, etc... We are all them same in the sense of worth and value. So why isn't this the case between different races of other animal species (or is it)?

>> No.2437085

>>2437076
the analogy between breeds of dogs and races of humans is highly flawed. Humans generally exist on a continuum, sure there are clear differences between east asia, the heart of africa and northern europe, but they aren't fully seperate. There's no line but what we draw, whereas breeds of dogs have been bred selective to conform to a standard, inbred, and clearly delineated. The races of humans don't have clear lines, they bleed into one another as proximity dictates.

>> No.2437092

>>2437085
But they still have some differences, right? Both species I mean- biological diversity amongst the races?

So it's just a matter of degree of difference? That the different inherrent levels of intelligence, etc, between dog races are just more pronounced than those in the human species?

But I still don't understand- different races of human all have the same intelligence, abilities, aptitudes, etc... We are all them same in the sense of worth and value. So why isn't this the case between different races of other animal species (or is it)?

>> No.2437111

>>2437092
You have failed to understand the basic difference, we cannot speak to difference between races because the edges are too blurred. Even what would be the most straight forward, "black people have black skin", is so inexact as to be meaningless. There's no RGB color code or Pantone color or whatever that we can point to sand say, here is the delimiter. Its an imprecise so we make judgements of race based on more things facial structure, national origin, hair, etc etc, which works on a case by case basis essentially to try and describe properties of population of a race however we wind up getting lost in the margins.

We can speak to differences amongst dog breeds because we defined the breed against a standard. There is a kennel club standard defining what each is, and everything else is just a mutt.

>> No.2437126

>>2437111
But those things you list, that delimit human races... Surely they stem from a bilogical/ genetic source?

So there are (minor) bilogical/ genetic differences between theoretical acrhetypes of all human races? Even though there is significant crossover between the races and deeply blurred edges... There is still such a thing as a "black" man, an "asian" man, an "aboriginal" man and the differences between them are purely biological/ genetic (assuming identical upbringing, etc).

But they still have some differences, right? Both species I mean- biological diversity amongst the races?

So it's just a matter of degree of difference? That the different inherrent levels of intelligence, etc, between dog races are just more pronounced than those in the human species?

But I still don't understand- different races of human all have the same intelligence, abilities, aptitudes, etc... We are all them same in the sense of worth and value. So why isn't this the case between different races of other animal species (or is it)?

>> No.2437145

but all domestic dogs are of the same species, OP, so your example is complete bullshit.
And they are artificially selected, where as human being are not, so dominant traits tend to stay dominant. And even then, there are bulldogs more loyal and intelligent than border collies.

>> No.2437147

There are no races of dogs. where do you get that? there are breeds, but it would take ten thousand years of selective breeding to even begin to produce a sub-race.

>> No.2437149

>>2437145
>but all domestic dogs are of the same species, OP, so your example is complete bullshit.

But all races of human are of the same species- are they not?

>> No.2437155

>>2437126
It's not that "all races have the same..." it's that you're just as likely to find those characteristics in any "ethnicity" of humans.

You could maybe produce some of those characteristics in people, but it would probably take a thousand generations of highly selective breeding just to isolate the gene groups, and who knows what the phenotypic associations would be?

>> No.2437156

Yes, there are physiological differences between the human races, like it or not - though they are relatively small compared to other animals, but they are definitely noticable when it comes to for example high level sports, intellectual challanges, etc.

There are tons of books on this subjects, they're just not that easy to get you hands on people don't dare to talk about it anymore

>> No.2437157

>>2437126
Of course these things are biologically based, but its not like there's a little switch in the DNA, some single gene for "black man". That's the whole point, you can't go to any specific sets of genes and say these are the genes that make you racially asian or not, because there is sufficient diversity within the race and at the edges of the race that wherever you draw the line will be wholly arbitrary. Its not a matter of degree at all. The two concepts are different.

>> No.2437160

>>2437155
Epigenetics fucks up a lot of characteristic shit over a couple of generations too.

>> No.2437161

>>2437149

all humans, like all dogs, have just the one race. There wasn't enough geographic isolation in their evolutionary history to produce anything but localized phenotypic clusters, and those are pretty transient. Probably a lot of sexual selection in the evolutionary history of both, though that's problematic with canine breeding style.

>> No.2437164

>>2437149
OP said that dachshunds and terriers were different dog species, but they aren't. So humans are not different species either (by implication). Also, even within different breeds of dogs there is heavy variation in temperament. May I refer you to my second point.

>> No.2437172

>>2437164
>OP said that dachshunds and terriers were different dog species,

no he didnt

>> No.2437173

>>2437156

I can't deny this, though it's anecdotal, I have discovered that,as a black man who works in a scientific field, that most of my black colleagues are much better at spatial coordination, linguistic agility and complex mathematics than just about any of the second-tier scientists I work with,
I always assumed this was for the old liberal reason that a black man has to be the very best to compete because the game is rigged, but I'm beginning to wonder if there might actually be something to your ideas. Especially since the number of highly intelligent black men in my field has doubled in the last ten years.

>> No.2437179

>>2437173
>my black colleagues are much better ... than just about any of the second-tier scientists I work with

>my black colleagues are much better ... than just about any of the white scientists I work with

>> No.2437184

>>2437111
>edges are blurred
>therefore the differences don't exist!

sure is utter fucking retards posting here.

>> No.2437185
File: 25 KB, 390x376, hailee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2437185

>believing in inherent value
>2011
ISHYGDDT

>> No.2437186

>>2437173
>my black colleagues are much better at spatial coordination, linguistic agility and complex mathematics than just about any of the second-tier scientists I work with,
Makes a difference to what I hear from black colleagues. Everyone seems to be stuck in this "At least we can dance and do sport" mindset.

>> No.2437189

>>2437173
How interesting!

I never see any black scientists, astronomers, physicists in all the TV programs with a scientific bent I watch.

Yet- since there are no real differences between the races- I would expect them to be equally represented.

Do you think this is due to the man keeping you down?

>> No.2437192

I don't see how inherent worth is important.

>> No.2437200

>>2437189
When I heard about the "first" face transplant, I just laughed and though "How many face transplants has James Bond had over the years?"

Food for thought.

>> No.2437201

>>2437189

I'm bugged by that too, and not many Chinese either, though they're like grass around here (literally, since the rest of us can look over their heads like tall grass.) I do confess that being an "eligible minority" makes it easier to get placement in a program, but once in you have to beat the chinese, and those guys are..., competitive. Not to be racist.

>> No.2437202

>>2437189
Could be due to cultural values dictating what careers are sought after.

Not the black guy.

>> No.2437204

>>2437173
>black
>scientist
lol

>>2437189
Of course it is.
What else could it be? Actual, genetic and biological differences between species of man separated for over 100,000 years?
Preposterous!

>>2437155
Must have missed where you have black skin, nigger lips or those ape noses, or jaundiced eyes, etc occurring among Europeans.

>> No.2437207

Dogs are all a single subspecies of gray wolf. Also, fuck Hitchens. Also, >>>/sci/.

>> No.2437208

>>2437186

oh. we can dance too. math and coordination, remember. but I at least, suck at any sport except track. I'm ball shy, i guess.

>> No.2437210

>>2437208
>niggers
>math
hahahha that's a good 1

>> No.2437213

Its more complex than that
"Caucasian" might colloquially mean white europeans but biologically Somalis, Ethiopians and Arabs are Caucasians too
Plus if you wanted to pull the biology card when it comes to race to advance a racist argument, you'd have to agree that there are FAR too many different ethnic groups to discriminate in regards to division of labor stratified by your definition of intelligence or utility etc
For example, there are literally hundreds of ethnic groups in Africa, we refer to them all as negroids but the bantu ethnic group has differences from the sudanese ethnic group etc etc

>> No.2437211

As someone who has been arguing this on /an/ I'd just like to say we have all been trolled by a copypasta

>> No.2437215

>>2437173
My ideas?
I just told you there are differences between the races, and if you read some of the studies, blacks are sure as hell not on the top when it comes to cognitive abilities, nor are the whites.

What's interesting is how Africa is split in half, whereas one of the halves have muscle fiber and fat distrubtions aimed for long distance running, and physiological aspects inferior to their other african half when it comes to jumping and intensive intervals. You can see the clear distribution of ethnicity on the olympics statistics.
Kenya also has a fucking horrible soccer team, even though it's their national sport - and no, it's not caused by their seemingly lack of money.

Whites on the other hand, dominate strongman-competitions, and swimming, which one can argue that is caused by their thicker, and larger bones, and different fat, joints and muscle distribution compared to blacks.

>> No.2437219

>>2437204

Now don't be mean. I'm the black guy. And while I'm no denzel, i don't have the thick lips or jaundiced eyes. Got to give up on the nose though.

you notice I refrain from commenting on your short-rib, corn-pone huckleberry ass, I'm sure.

>> No.2437220

>>2437210
>>2437204
Come on dude, you've lost. No one takes racists seriously any more. Just give up.

>> No.2437223

>>2437204

> black skin, nigger lips or those ape noses, or jaundiced eyes, etc occurring among Europeans.

Where are you from? Your jimmies sound so rustled.

>> No.2437225

>>2437219
So you are a mongrel then, and using the 1 drop definition of "black" ?

>> No.2437227

>>2437215

You are not saying there are "racial" differences in cognitive potential I'm sure. What century do you live in?

>> No.2437230

Well by inherrent worth, what I mean is admittedly abstract.

Supose you could (and I know you cant but it doesnt matter), apply a numeric value to the fundamental qualities and abilities of every man.

E.g. an intelligent man gets 80 for intelligence, a short man gets 50 for height, etc etc etc down to the smallest minutiae.

I know this is impossible but it doesn't matter. It's the comparison that counts, not the absolute values.

So suppose you could do this and then you averaged and grouped it by race.

The values for each race would be the same?

>> No.2437232

>>2437227
Of course I am, why don't you try to argue for why is isn't?

>> No.2437233

>>2437227
Hey, I weighed up all these brains, and have determined relative amounts of psychic pneuma based on masses.

>> No.2437234

>>2437227
>we've successfully censored society from telling the truth, this means, reality has fundamentally changed!

leftists gonna left.

And at the end of the day none of this matters, save for the simple fact that niggers and other non-whites don't fucking belong in our country.

>> No.2437236

>>2437230
No of course it wouldn't, are you LITERALLY FUCKING RETARDED? Do you think reality is "FAIR"?

>> No.2437237

>>2437234
What country?

>> No.2437240

>>2437234
You realize you sound liek a crazy conspiracy theorist, right

>> No.2437242

>>2437237
Any white country

anyone advocating mass immigration is a disgusting traitor who should be shot.

>> No.2437246

>>2437225
Mongrel, he says. Opposite of "inbred", I say. What, you got a line of pure backstick peckerwood purity running all the way from Homo habilis yourself? Must be quite a pedigree. and while we're talking pseudo genetics, look up "hybrid vigor". Might interest you a little.

>> No.2437248

>>2437246
try looking up outbreeding depression.

nigger

>> No.2437251

>>2437234
Actually, OP is well to the left but what you say strikes directly the point I was hoping to make.

I don't actually discriminate myself but it seems to me that society as a whole has been frightened into pretending to believe that not only is discrimination wrong (which I believe to be true) but that there is no basis for discrimination at all, which is clearly not the case at all.

That's what I object to, the force-feeding of untruths to achieve a political purpose (for example, kill all the jews).

And even though I don't discriminate, I do actively dislike those black people who surround me because they are loud and boorish and unintelligent.

I've no doubt the black scientis chap is brighter and better than me, good luck to him. But he has overcome the (possibly minute) inherrent racial disadvantage to get there.

And I don't swallow this false distinction between "black men" and "niggers" because if there's one thing you can say about niggers- and I think I can speak with some authority, being as I am surrounded by them- it is that they are ALL black.

>> No.2437255

>>2437242
Black guy again.
I don't see colors myself, just black and white. And if you're not black, you're white. this means Indians, Chinese, Latinos, etc.


My own version of prejudice maybe, and I try to resist it, but it still makes me laugh to see the Anglo fighting the Latinos competing with the Chinese...
Not that i think blacks are better, or anything, and those batshit motherfuckers in Africa scare me as much as they scare you guys.

>> No.2437260

>>2437248


>nigger

Oh! Oh! a touch! a touch! I do confess it! I fear i breath my last!

>> No.2437265

Races in the biological sense don't exist within the human species. The human gene pool is actually tiny.

Cry harder, racist faggots.

>> No.2437269

>>2437251
>And I don't swallow this false distinction between "black men" and "niggers" because if there's one thing you can say about niggers- and I think I can speak with some authority, being as I am surrounded by them- it is that they are ALL black.

So if all owls are birds then all birds are owls?

>> No.2437271

>>2437265
If existing differences occurs due to "minute" changes in genes, then those small changes must by themselves by significant.

>> No.2437274

>>2437265
Why don't you try to actually read some biology, aye?

>> No.2437278

>>2437274
Stop making assumptions. You might hurt yourself.

>> No.2437291

>judging a person based on uncontrollable biological factors
>not on his or her own achievements
>twenty-twelve

>> No.2437298

>>2437064
ITT: liberals in denial

You do know that many prominent geneaologists agree on racial differences.

>> No.2437300

>>2437291
>not allowed to judge someone based on all available information

>> No.2437302

>>2437278
Assumptions? The fact that you don't think there are defined races within the human species shows your obvious lack of knowledge

>> No.2437313

>>2437298
What the fuck expertise would a geneaologist have in the biological analysis of genetics? Did you mistype the word you meant to use or something? A geneaologist studies history.

>> No.2437315

>>2437302
I don't think, I know. I am at this moment sitting in front of a wall-covering bookcase, and most of the books in there are about biology. That's why you shouldn't make assumptions.

>> No.2437317

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdeI9NfbfT8
Not a huge fan of this bitch, but watch her destroy racism in less than 10 minutes

>> No.2437320
File: 1.20 MB, 320x240, bunk.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2437320

>>2437291
>believing in free will
>ever

>> No.2437322

Man is not highly evolved at all, man is not better than any other animal, we just have a small tiny difference in the capacities of our brain that made a huge disparity to the external world, because we are able to build things around us and unfold some preety complex stuff. We are not better than any animal at all, put this in your head.

>> No.2437323

>>2437300
>literally defending prejudice
>2012 A.D.

>> No.2437324

>>2437317
ayn rand was a jew, an alien in our society.
No surprise, she opposes "racism"

>>2437323
>using emotional appeals
>legitimate arguments

pick 1 and fuck off.

>> No.2437329
File: 105 KB, 400x375, coolstory.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2437329

>there are some differences on average between people whose genes are traceable back to different points of origin
>therefore i will start hating people whose genes are traceable back to different points of origin and call them all niggers

>> No.2437333

>>2437317
Can we please for the love of GOD not bring up Ayn Rand for once.

>> No.2437337

>>2437302
He's right, by the way. I got into this argument yesterday and I study chemistry, but I've had to study biochemistry and I know a little about how genetics works, and I've read numerous articles and watched some videos on the subject.
Race as a genetic term is a misnomer. The genetics that determine race only determine those physical characteristics we use to socially define race and that's it. That's why it's a misnomer: the "race" is not different in any way except physical, any other traits are simply human traits. In society, race is real, in genetics, race is real but not at all conducive to the social reality. Society's view of race is enormously exaggerated, almost to the point of fabricated, when compared to the genetics.

>> No.2437338

>>2437329
>implying love of your own implies a hatred for others
>implying any bird would survive if it let other animals into their nest

Like is about struggle, you faggot. These are our countries, and we should fucking keep them.

>> No.2437339

>>2437315
Oh really? Enlighten me, as your supposed knowledge is contradicting every study ever done on racial differences.

>> No.2437340

>>2437324
It wasn't an emotional appeal. You defended the notion that judging someone's worth based on external factors, instead of by the actions and achievements of that person, is okay.

>> No.2437341

Race is most definitely a social construct. Probably more fluid than even gender.

>> No.2437346
File: 78 KB, 400x594, you-seem-upset.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2437346

>>2437338
>using emotional appeals
>legitimate arguments

pick 1 and fuck off.

>> No.2437348

>>2437340
Judging their worth is fucking irrelevant, i judge that i don't want anything to do with them, nor do i want to be around them, nor do i want to see them in my society.
You can see that you aren't actually making a logical argument, right?


>>2437341
>race is fluid
this is what liberals actually believe

>> No.2437352

>>2437269
>So if all owls are birds then all birds are owls?

No, but if all niggers are black does it not then stand to reason that black people have an undue preponderousness for niggerism?

>> No.2437355

>>2437324
>racist logic
Really? You're going to bring up the fact that she's Jewish and Russian as somehow being relevant to this discussion? At least you're up front with your ad hominem bullshit

>> No.2437358

>>2437348

>Liberal

What do you mean by this?

>> No.2437360

>>2437346
>facts of life and reality
>emotional appeal

pick 1

>>2437355
she is jewish, not russian.

>>2437358
cultural marxist

>> No.2437361

>>2437348
Without Googling, was Charlie Chaplin white?

>> No.2437362

>>2437348
>Judging their worth is fucking irrelevant
That's it guys, pack it up. Racists will never be convinced that they're wrong.

>> No.2437367

>>2437324

>implying appeals for fairness, humanity and altruism are automatically invalid because of some constructed rejection of 'emotion' as 'false', 'silly', 'stupid', completely disconnected from 'rationality' and 'thinking' etc.

let me guess you probably also believe we should just live in one big free market where everything is decided by inhuman economic forces abstracted from everyday life because it's 'the most natural' way right and it's just like evolution and hey if you can't get a job cos of discrimination it's your own fault and survival of the fittest right? just a guess

Nick Land wrote a great essay called Kant, Capital and the Prohibition of Incest about how capitalism is necessarily tied up in a 'soft' racial genocide which displaces itself into developing countries (c.f. apple and foxconn).

>> No.2437368

>>2437352
Well, all niggers aren't black.

All niggerdom is, is high aggression mixed with low intellect. There are niggers in every racial group, even Asians.

>> No.2437369

>>2437339
Well, the fact that we're all descended from just a handful of East-Africans, and the fact that the first split in the population only occurred about 500.000 years ago don't really allow for very significant genetic diversity.

>> No.2437377

>>2437064

sadly, there is a lot of variation within races / breeds, not just across it.

humans have bred animals for having certain characteristics as well.

faulty analogy.

>> No.2437382

>>2437368
>Well, all niggers aren't black.

shut the fuck up
"nigger" is just another word used to describe negros.

>> No.2437388

Its hard to argue against science or statistics, which both point out biological and social differences in race.

However there is difference.
Just because everyone have equal rights it does not mean everyone is equal.

Is it racist to point out a difference proved by science. You guys sure start to sound like religious zealots arguing against atheists.

>> No.2437389

There are much greater individual differences between members of the same ethnicity/gender than there are between members of these different groups, and even taking averages of these groups into account is shakey at best and doesn't show up anything much in the way of significant differences in things which really matter for any assessment of 'humanity'.

>> No.2437392

>>2437388
Learn proper English, then come back.

>> No.2437393

>>2437389
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Human_genetic_diversity:_Lewontin%27s_fallacy%22_%28scientific_paper
%29

>> No.2437395
File: 54 KB, 600x468, wittgensteinhouse.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2437395

Dear OP,

Even if it were to be established that the average Dachshunds is a better hunting dog than the average German Shepherd, it would still be unfair not to let individual German Shepherds an opportunity to prove his hunting skills.

That is why such tendencies on the collective level always have to be disregarded in order to treat the individual fairly. Therefore speculation on this subject is of not much consequence.

>> No.2437396

>>2437382

noun
1.
Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive .
a.
a black person.
b.
a member of any dark-skinned people.
2.
Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive . a person of any race or origin regarded as contemptible, inferior, ignorant, etc.
3.
a victim of prejudice similar to that suffered by blacks; a person who is economically, politically, or socially disenfranchised.


Words change meaning broski.

>yfw i'm a liberal faerie near you

>> No.2437397

>>2437396
PC bullshit ain't reality.

>> No.2437403

>>2437369
You do know that a lot of human history has changed since the emergance of haplogroups. Take the fact that euroasians have mixed with neanderthals and africans Did not.

>> No.2437404

>cultural marxist

Yeah, this suits me.

Think about the history of 'race' in the early colonial context. The fact is that race was not a delineated structure up until a few hundred years ago. Race very much has to be institutionalized in order to be seen as real. Mexico is a good example of this. The Spaniards, i.e. the 'whites' faced a huge issue when they started fornicating with the indigenous population. Some of their offspring had a 'white' appearance. They saw this as a threat to the power structure they had set in place. And so they wrote up racialized law designating that maternal 'racial' lineage superseded all other. You can see it in the American colonies as well. The early British colonials noticed issues with the harmony of the colonies when British indentured servants and farmhands started rebelling, well what easier way to create solidarity than to designate another group of people even lower than them? And so the concept of white was born, to unite and transcend systems of exploitation.

There are a number of modern examples as well. The whole notion of 'passing' is interesting in the performance-based aspect of race.

>> No.2437410

why don't we just kick out retarded and aggressive people from our society, if that's what you want op? i see no reason to say that all members of a race must go based on whatever logic i find interspersed in the massive walls of butthurt you're spewing

>> No.2437408

>>2437369
Of course it does, time is relative when it comes to evolution - depending on the size of the isolated groups -etc etc, as well as the frequenzy of mutations, which also increases depending on the complexity of the respective genom.

And what about our breeding with the neanderthal?
And how do you explain the widely accepted racial differences when it comes to sports, health, physical characteristics, food tolerance, and relatively major physiological differences found in clinical studies?

>> No.2437413

>>2437395
This. Genetic diversity within particular ethnic groups is quite large. Even if black people did have a lower IQ on average, that wouldn't make the notion of a black genius impossible.

>> No.2437418

>>2437403
That is very very speculative. We still aren't sure what relationship the Neanderthals had with us genetically. That there have been hybrids has been proven, if these were fertile hasn't.

>> No.2437419

>>2437397
Eh, neither of us will change the other's opinion.

>> No.2437426

There is no such thing as inherrent worth. Just to use the dog comparisson you made, several species of dogs are preety crippled genetically, with health issues that are just not common to others and yet, they survive, because we choose them to survive, because of some silly cute value to them or something like that.

So should we kill them or not allow them to breed because of it? Or should we continue to cripple them more and more as our values determine which ones to survive? This is a very serious moral debate, not because of the dogs, but because of the extreme difference between the two approaches.

So you gotta see that the worth, the usefulness, is something we construct. You create values "a good dog is this" "a good human being is this" "a good employee is this" and you judge people based on that. What made you create those values were your references, your history, your background. That's what prejudice really is and it's not a bad thing on itself.

Prejudice is to judge before knowing and we don't know anything exactly, all knowledge has its share of prejudice, you see. If I was attacked by a man with long hair (just to drop off the subject of race and put it in perspective) and then years later I was attacked by a second man with long hair, chances are that I would be tense everytime I cross a long haired man on the street. Prejudice is a leap we take in order to interact with the world around us coherently.

cont

>> No.2437430

>- Man is just a highly evolved/ developed species of mammal(?)
Disagree with the term 'highly evolved.' It's meaningless. But humans are mammals by definition.

>2- Other species of mammal have different races that can interbreed (same species/ different race)?
Some animals of different species can breed (Their offspring is infertile, which is part of the reason they are considered separate species). It's hypothetically possible that humans can produce offspring with other mammals. I don't see what this has to do with anything.

>3- e.g dachsund, terrier, rottweiller, etc; all types of the "dog" species, just different races?
I believe dogs are a subspecies of wolf, but within that (sub)species I suppose you could liken different breeds to different races. Not a terrible analogy.

>4- Can we then assume that all races of the "dog" species have the same level of intelligence, utility, inherrent worth- given that all races of the human species (black/ white/ asian/ aboriginal, etc) have the same level of intelligence, utility, inherrent worth?
We cannot assume that all races/breeds have the same level of intelligence or utility, that's a ridiculous assumption. As for inherent worth, that's a nebulous metaphysical concept so again I don't think we can assume that. Some people think all humans have the same inherent worth. Some people think some humans have more inherent worth than others. Some people think all life has the same inherent worth. None of these positions are more 'true' than any other.

>> No.2437432

>>2437426
What I am against is the bad use of prejudice and that is simply to not acknowledge it's a prejudice at all, to think that's true. The difference between prejudice and a supposed truth may induce to radical change in how people relate to each other. If the guy attacked by the long haired man were to believe that it was definitely true that long haired man are not worth it, then it would be sensible for him to attack this new guy with long hair before he does.

But instead, if he understands the influence that the men with long hair had in him and even, if he understand the context, on the reasons and consequences, on the coincidence factor, on where he was and how was the situation and what really incited them to attack him, he would be much more reasonable in the way he treats long haired men. That's not to say he would be at ease with them, but by understanding it, he would gain new knowledge, new references and would have a wider perspective on the issue.

cont

>> No.2437435

>>2437393
Similarly, Marks agree with Edwards that correlations between geographical areas and genetics obviously exists in human populations, but goes on to note that "What is unclear is what this has to do with "race" as that term has been though much in the twentieth century - the mere fact that we can find groups to be different and can reliably allot people to them is trivial. Again, the point of the theory of race was to discover large clusters of people that are principally homogeneous within and heterogeneous between, contrasting groups. Lewontin's analysis shows that such groups do not exist in the human species, and Edwards' critique does not contradict that interpretation."

From the thing you're citing, and we've already covered it:
>In society, race is real, in genetics, race is real but not at all conducive to the social reality. Society's view of race is enormously exaggerated, almost to the point of fabricated, when compared to the genetics.

>> No.2437437

>>2437432
Now let's put some race in this. You are in a country that was colonized by Europe, with slaves coming from Africa, that has a history and now instead of the men with long hair, it was a black man that attacked you in those occasions. What caused that? Was it the black skin? The consequence of genetics? Or was it culture? Consider the references and the history of the man and in a connected world, consider how much more dependent we are of statistics. So maybe, yeah, it's easier for you to be robbed by a black man, because it's easy for a black man to be poor, because it's easier for the poor man to come from a family of slaves. So is the fear of black men justified here? It's actually a way for us to understand the history behind the blacks and by understanding it, taking a more rational approach to the subject, knowing when you are ought to succumb to prejudice or give it a chance because of other things you know about it.

I believe in the concept of race, because there are differences, much like there are differences between a man and a woman. The issue is that we are so quick to assume races are better than others, when not even animals are better than the others. Men is not better than animals at all, dude.

>> No.2437452

>>2437435
But then comes the rest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_humans)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_genetics#Race_and_population_genetic_structure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_health

>> No.2437457

>>2437430
>Their offspring is infertile,
occasionally mules are fertile

>> No.2437463

Even if the average black person were mentally less capable than the average white person, that still would say nothing about particular individuals. You wouldn't call an anorexic American fat just because the average American is overweight.

>> No.2437487

>>2437463
>>2437463
FUCK EXACTLY
we've said this 100 times in the thread
i see threads like this all the time, and the op always completely ignores the ridiculous leap he's making, instead just accusing people of being PC, liberal, retarded, etc.
EVEN IF YOUR PREMISES ARE ACCEPTED, THE CONCLUSION, THAT IS "BE A RACIST" DOES NOT FOLLOW

>> No.2437490

>>2437437
>I accept being robbed by blacks because hurr durr slavery.
Afro-americans have got to be the whiniest bunch and most self-entitling bunch of them all. Nevermind the fact that there are lots of white and asian groups that lived under slavery during the 20th century but when given the chance built a working society from rubbles in less than 50 years time. While africans where given topnotch countries with plenty of resources around just destroyed everything. And why is that europeans should hold guilt on slavery when most of it were done in the name of a highly hierarchic tyrannical regime - namely monarchy. Why is that slavery is strictly a suffering for blacks? Fuck white guilt.

>> No.2437498

>>2437457
I had to look this up, I'm going to trust Wikipedia when it says 'very rarely, and no male mules are known to have sired offspring,' but yeah I did not know that. Voodoo wizardry, clearly.

>> No.2437503

>>2437457
Pretty sure it's the other one, and they're not fertile with each other, but with like a horse or a donkey, and give birth to a horse or a donkey or whatever mated with it.

>> No.2437520

>>2437490
>Afro-americans have got to be the whiniest bunch and most self-entitling bunch of them all

Jewish Defence League will be in touch with you shortly to rectify this.

>> No.2437526

>>2437490
Okay, but that's not what I said at all.

>> No.2437530

>>2437490
They've still been systematically oppressed, and grown up in a culture that despises/fetishizes/dismisses them.

If they're truly inferior because of race, why do you think that first generation african american immigrants manage to be successful and hardworking on a level analogous to that of asian immigrants?

You're ignoring that as recently as the 60s, we needed civil rights movements and that we still have tenuous race relations at best

>> No.2437540

>>2437490
Additionally, you're ignoring the fact that it was very convenient for slaveowners. Do you think that they gave a fuck about anything besides how their wealth was enriched by slavery and the cotton gin?

"Oh, if it weren't for the monarchy", eh?

Don't forget that the US is a superpower now in great part because of the incredible resources that slavery has afforded us.

>> No.2437547

>>2437530
>why do you think that first generation african american immigrants manage to be successful and hardworking on a level analogous to that of asian immigrants?
THIS. I lived in Cambridge and there were plenty of black Harvard alumni, but most of them were African immigrants. Just look at our president, the son of a black immigrant.

>> No.2437563

>>2437463
averages are important too you fucking idiot, especially in terms of government policy.

the FACT that all "anti-discrimination" laws are based on the ASSUMPTION of "equality".

>> No.2437579

>>2437563
In addition to everything else I said, keep in mind that there are people alive today who have been personally affected by jim crow laws, etc.

Don't you think that that's even a little fucked up?

>> No.2437585

>>2437579
No? Segregation wasn't "oppression", and not being able to race mix isn't oppression either.

>> No.2437591

>>2437585
>not being able to walk where you want to walk and fuck who you want to fuck
>not oppression

Back to stormfront.

>> No.2437593

>>2437585
Do you even begin to understand that aside from the letter of the law, employment opportunities were severely limited for them, that they were not allowed to have an equivalent education, and that they certainly weren't judged fairly in court?

Or are you seriously going to tell me that people were capable of keeping them separate but equal in a completely fair way?

>> No.2437594

>>2437591
fuck off you stupid nigger.

>> No.2437601

>>2437540
>>2437540
What fucks do I give about american landowners? In european. A big part of my family got wiped out first by russian tzarism them the following revolution. During the 1000 year reign of tzars they were slaves because they were peasants. During the revolution because they were "intellectual". My bloodline and my kindreds has endured pain for hundreds of years. Yet some black guy always tell me im the opressor because im whitey, im the man. Liberals know nothing of the history of europe. They think everyone lived in mansions. When that were the 0.1 percent who happened to write history. Fact; A lot of african americans got their first taste of freedom and got to vote much earlier than à lot of white europeans. Does this give me the right to self-entitlement. No. Does it give me an excuse, to commit crime? No. I shut up, work and study hard to help My family. Because they are the only one who looks out for me. And its been like that for centuries.

>> No.2437612

>>2437601
Again, you didn't grow up with your parents being oppressed, spit on, barred from climbing the socioeconomic ladders-

Black immigrants do perfectly well, just as you've done perfectly well. You've never argued that.

The problem isn't black people, it's the communities of black people in america who grew up in a culture which still is affected by racism.

>> No.2437614

>>2437601
Fucking this.

>> No.2437617

>>2437593
>employment opportunities were severely limited for them

Who wants a worthless criminal nigger for an employee?
The cost of affirmative action is over a trillion dollars a year.

>that they were not allowed to have an equivalent education

They went to black schools, no surprise black schools are going to be less "good" then white schools.
This is obvious bullshit, they were not "denied" fucking anything, just that WHITE TAX PAYER MONEY wasn't being spent by the billions on them.

>and that they certainly weren't judged fairly in court?
uh
ya they were. If they wanted to be "judged" fairly, then perhaps they should stay among their own kind and stop shoving themselves into our society? Oh wait, appeals for "fairness" wouldn't get anywhere among negros!

>> No.2437620

>>2437612
shut up you fucking nigger, you can't even grasp that "immigrants" are the top few % of negroid society.
Just admit you are stupid as shit and your problems come from your inferiority.

>> No.2437630

Stormfront in full effect I see.

I'll never forgive moot for creating another /new/ and bringing that scum back into 4chan.

>> No.2437632

>>2437617
>black people are subhuman
>justifies treating them as subhuman
>they don't prosper under being treated as subhuman
>OMG GUYS LOOK THEY'RE WORTHLESS

Again, if they're so terrible, why do first generation african/black immigrants do just fine?

And I never said I was for affirmative action. I'd say that if anything, it should be done by socioeconomic status.

>> No.2437634

>>2437612
What the fuck are you talking about? Did you just read what I wrote. Do you know anything about communism. Do you even know of russia today. Im getting mad. Shut up, your ignorance is showing.

>> No.2437635

>>2437632
>blacks living seperately in their own communities
>evil oppression

pick 1. The fact niggers can't do shit on their own, shows their inferiority, and shows the importance of averages.

>> No.2437641

>>2437620
Oh, so somehow the immigrants are a superior form of black? Tell me a little about how they're biologically different from any American-born who can trace their ancestry back to the same point.

The only difference is the culture, you fucking shiteating retard.

>> No.2437647

>>2437634
Race relations in the USSR have little or nothing to do with the race relations in the US, which ultimately decide what life in the US is like.

>> No.2437651

>>2437634
So can you argue that black immigrants came from somehow superior mother countries than you did?

>> No.2437656

>>2437641
Because of careful selection from US immigrant board. You think anyone is handed sirlig permit just like that? Look instead of the first generation africans in europe and that sucess rate. They are the big mass - failing of course.

>> No.2437658

>>2437634
So can you argue that black immigrants came from mother countries that are less violent, more friendly, and easier to live in than yours?

>> No.2437659

>>2437647
>>2437651
>>2437641
look at this mad negro
lol

>> No.2437661

My favourite racists are Slavic neo-nazi's. The only thing funnier would be jewish neo-nazi's.

>> No.2437666

>>2437656
>implying that genetics are the determining factor in intelligence or success

>> No.2437671

>>2437641
To be honest, those immigrants can be from anywhere in Africa. The slaves were won on the mid westcoast, which is still home to some of the dumbest niggaz in the whole of Africa. Congo is basically permafucked.

>> No.2437677

>>2437671
>were won
purchased*

>> No.2437680

>>2437617
>>2437251

I'm the black scientist, and I'm actually starting to like you. Man has the courage of his convictions.
Now, ever been on the Down-low?
>>2437463
>>2437490
And to elaborate another point, whatever the characteristics of the "Average" African American are, One superior male can trump three hundred or so of you little pasty-whites.

Because you're not competing with the average; you're competing with me, and I'm bigger than you, stronger than you, smarter than you, and almost certainly better educated, better groomed and better hung.

I can outfight you, outrun you and out think you, and for some reason the ladies dig that. Go figure.

>> No.2437685

>>2437680
>muh dick

>> No.2437695

>>2437680
ugh... your nigger is showing
although you might succeed in pissing off a stormfag... fire away i guess

>> No.2437703

>>2437695

that's kind of the point, I guess. Though throwing a front out isn't entirely my style, i hate to let the peckercheese hitlerlickers have all the fun. course they need something I guess, since we got's all de wimmens already, oh, lawd, and Jowsah, or words to that effect.

>> No.2437707

>>2437680

>three hundred or so of you little pasty-whites.

Hey fuck adv/, defend this guy and tell us how amazing those peoples are now.

>> No.2437712

>>2437707
I'm mocking your style, honey. Don't feel bad now.

>> No.2437716

>>2437680

>and almost certainly better educated

By who ? Your white professors ?

>> No.2437724

>>2437707
The best I can say is that it's hardly worse than what the rest of you have been saying.

I don't think that all white people are racist, nor do I think that all black people define themselves by their ability to be violent/cause pain.

>>2437680

I will say, though, that I understand that that's the fastest way to piss off anyone trying to defend racism, but it's pretty god damn stupid to basically try to justify everything they've said.

Of course, no one's keeping track on an anonymous imageboard, but eh. It's annoying when I've become so strongly invested in this conversation.

>> No.2437729

>>2437716

White, Korean and Chinese. Only one black one when I was there. Dr. Foster, the department chair.

>> No.2437735

>>2437712

Don't worry darling, Im not the one throwing racial slurs and explaining how smart I am by telling the world how big my dick is. Thanks for the free propaganda anyway.

>> No.2437746

>>2437724

Black scientist guy again.
I'll stop baiting the goose steppers, I guess.

I understand they're really upset that a guy like me exists at all, and that's probably enough in itself.

I'm not sure why we can't all get together and unite in common front against our mutual enemy, the hipster.

>> No.2437749

>>2437735

Darling, now? See i knew you was down with the down-low.

>> No.2437750

>>2437729

How convenient.

>> No.2437769

>>2437749

You focused your attention only on darling I see. Strong comeback I recognize.

>> No.2437787
File: 19 KB, 557x443, ponty.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2437787

>>2437769
>yfw

you google "the down-low"