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2426859 No.2426859 [Reply] [Original]

/lit/ is philosophy a hard subject?

There's this friend of mine who is all about science and says that I'm an "banal idiot" for studying philosophy, I have never thought about the difference between the two disciplines, I guess I respect them both equally. Altough I wouldn't know what to think now. I thought philosophy was also well-regarded and respected in the academic world.

What are your views on the subject?

>> No.2426877

My true thoughts on the subject?

Science:Most evil enterprise used to make money.

Philosophy:The best of man.

>> No.2426880

Tell him he is a fag.


Also, give him some kind of pseudo-philosophy shit that will make him mad.

Like "Well, how are you so sure that logical reasoning leads to truth?"

Or just say that "science doesn't seek truth, but to improve humanity"

>> No.2426884

What is philosophy anyway?

>> No.2426881

It will make you reevaluate everything and sort out the bullshit if done properly. A little at a time in the beginning is very good. You can exercise great critical thinking with only a little philosophy and once you get yourself sorted. You can dive deeper and learn more.

>> No.2426883

>>2426859
>What are your views on the subject?
Sometimes it's fun to read, it's intellectually stimulating, etc., fun to argue about sometimes.

>studying philosophy
>STEM vs. liberal arts thread a-brewin'
Just study what you want, fuck h8rs, etc.

And nothing's really *that* difficult if you work at it enough, but chemistry's probably a harder major. Just sayin'.

>> No.2426887

Philosophy provides the foundation for practicing the sciences and humanities. Descartes, Pascal, Mill and many others were scientists and mathematicians. It's unavoidable.

>> No.2426885

i dunno

your friend sounds like more of an idiot and far more banal a character for dismissing something like 'philosophy' out of hand like that

>> No.2426889

>>2426884
I like you.

>> No.2426890

I majored in both physics and philosophy, so I feel fine saying that no philosophy is not hard, but neither is physics or anything else really. Everything is easy, excelling is always hard.

>> No.2426892

>>2426884

en.wikipedia.org/Philosophy

>> No.2426893

>>2426859
>hard subject

Aristotle said we should not demand from conceits like "justice" and "good" the same exactitude we demand from math and science.

Mainly because it makes no sense to do so.

>> No.2426903

>>2426892
>Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems, such as those connected with existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language.

Says who? Etymologically philosophy is for people who like to know stuff. That may or may not include those problems above.

>> No.2426907

Well, your friend is silly for thinking that. They are connected.

Descartes pretty much was the pioneer of the Scientific Method.

>> No.2426910

>>2426903
>Etymologically philosophy is for people who like to know stuff
Says who? the greeks? fuck those guys the didn't know shitl

>> No.2426911

Scholar-level philosophy is extremely difficult. You just get a lot of idiots who read a few articles on wikipedia and think they're expert which ruins it for most people.

>> No.2426913
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2426913

To add on this GREAT topic. What is better, liberal arts or philosophy?

>> No.2426915

>>2426910
Since they invented the concept they get to name it.

>> No.2426920

A philosophy degree is dumb because analytic philosophy is dumb.

Philosophy itself is honorable and cool and junk, but it's also a lifelong struggle with depression and introspection that isn't very fun, especially if you're not brilliant.

>> No.2426918

>>2426913
Philosophy.

It's useful if you want to go into law or sociology.

>> No.2426919

>>2426903

Stop being a fucking carp. The context of the discussion is philosophy as an academic discipline, not the literal meaning of the word.

>> No.2426924

>>2426913
Liberal arts is shit tier.


The philosophy most teenagers and first year college kids like to spout is also shit tier.

Real philosophy is awesome tier.

If you're talking about career prospects, I have no idea.

>> No.2426921

>>2426903

So etymology is how we define words, huh? Love of knowledge could be love of studying wood under a microscope. Not what we mean by "philosophy" at all.

Dumb.

>> No.2426929

>>2426884
>>2426889

Hey dude. Nobody else got the joke.

Fucking plebs.

>> No.2426939

>>2426907
This.

Descartes was a top tier mathematician. He gave us the Cartesian Plane.


Because his name in Latin (which was like the English of his time) was Renatus Cartesius.

>> No.2426942

>>2426921
But why can't it be included as?

>> No.2426947

>>2426942

It doesn't serve the purpose of the discussion. If you want to talk about your love of knowledge, go ahead. Just not with people who are serious about talking about academic philosophy. You'll waste our time.

>> No.2426950

>>2426911

Op here. Why is scholar level philosophy difficult? What's the difference with wikipedia?

Also, yes, everyone is right in this thread, I should re-evaluate why he is my friend. He's always been really conceited.

>> No.2426946

A lot of students studying hard sciences hate philosophy. Most because they don't even know what it is, though they should be aware of their fathers, and some because they're incapable of comprehending anything that isn't an equation.

My take anyway. Plenty who do actually respect it and who I have semi interesting cross-subject conversations with.

>> No.2426944

I hate when OP doesn't respond to his own thread.

>> No.2426960

>>2426920
My life was always a struggle with introspection and depression. Philosophy, if nothing else, has made that struggle all the more interesting.

>> No.2426964

>>2426944

I'm here bro.

>> No.2426968

>>2426920
> but it's also a lifelong struggle with depression and introspection that isn't very fun, especially if you're not brilliant.

Depends on the philosopher you identify with the most.

>> No.2426972

>>2426964
Soooo, do you like reading philosophy or do you actually study philosophy?

>> No.2426975

>>2426920
>>2426920

If you are an average looking male, your life in ANY field will be a struggle if you are not brilliant.

>> No.2426976

>>2426950
>Op here. Why is scholar level philosophy difficult? What's the difference with wikipedia?

Don't know if serious..

http://www.questia.com/
http://www.jstor.org/

Get a subscription. Read anything on philosophy written by an academic in the field. Read wikipedia. See which article you understood better.

>> No.2426979

>>2426950
Probably because they assume you know your basic philosophers pretty well.

Which is something pretty hard to do.

>> No.2426982

>>2426975
Well, at least as a male we know what hard work and ambition are.

>> No.2426985

>>2426976
Often it isn't wikipedia. Whoever edits wikipedia (I'm convinced it's one man) is a terrible writer, even more so than most philosophers.

>> No.2426986

>>2426877
>Science:Most evil enterprise used to make money.

you sir, are an idiot.

>> No.2426999

it is harder than most sciences. if you want to do it well and substantive etc

>> No.2427003

Modern philosophy is a politically homogenous academic clique that considers its purpose the manipulation of other people. Get a time machine if you want to be a legitimate philosopher.

>> No.2427004

>>2426986
Obviously he's a fucking retard but it does make me think of what, I think, is an increasing problem with the sciences. Dogmatism, or perhaps conservatism. I don't mean that people should be more accepting of pseudo-sciences and whatnot, it's just that people seem to increasingly forget the lessons of Hume. People seem to ignore the possibility of any upset to the existing paradigm, which I think is risky. It could, certainly, within the peer review system be a cause of bias no matter how much we like to think man is capable of acting entirely neutral and rationally.

>> No.2427007

Science: How does shit work?
Philosophy: What should we do with it?

Very simplified, but that's the most important distinction I guess. Both are very important.

>> No.2427008

>>2426972
>>2426972
>>2426972

I'm starting to major in philosophy. I may not have a full grasp on the field but I try to read as much as I can. My classes are not exactly philosophy-related but I think that is because I'm just starting. This thread is giving me insight though.

>>2426976
>>2426976

I was serious and holy shit those are some juicy subjects. Thank you.

Let's search some of those academics you said...

>American Journal of Theology & Philosophy

Let's pick a nice number, let's say no.2 of 2011.

>On prophecy and Critical Intelligence.

>The first page cites around 6 names I haven't even heard at all.

Welp. I'm still subscribing though, these are interesting as hell.

>> No.2427016

>>2427003
Well, you can still be a philosopher, you just can't be a philosopher within academia. And it's more that academia is a subculture social clade than because of any explicit cliqueness, of course, it's social mechanisms that create these similarities.

>> No.2427019

OP, when you are older study some eastern philosophy as well. Confucius and shit.

I remember there was this convention between european philosopher and asian ones, and the europeans were embarrassed because the asians we're making comparison between eastern and western philosophy and had cool ideas and shit. While the europeans had never even read confucius.

>> No.2427034

>>2427019
>this convention between european philosopher and asian ones, and the europeans were embarrassed because the asians we're making comparison between eastern and western philosophy and had cool ideas and shit. While the europeans had never even read confucius.

you mean with (mainly) japan and germany? nishida, nishitani, etc? heidegger said something like, "dt suzuki put simply what i am saying", not exactly the reverse, but its something right.

>> No.2427037

The Journal of Philosophy
Vol. 103, No. 11, Nov., 2006

http://www.jstor.org/pss/20619974

This is what it's come down too? This seems very useless compared to reading Kant.

>> No.2427039

>>2427034
I don't really remember sorry, that's why I was so vague.

>> No.2427041

>>2427019
>OP, when you are older study some eastern philosophy as well. Confucius and shit.
>Confucius and shit

shit son i luh confucius, nigga droppin mad fukkin knowledge and shit in his Analecks namsayin

>> No.2427043

>>2427037
Well, not everyone can be Kant. And publishing articles is basically how you make your reputation as an academic, it's a professional requirement, so there's by the very nature of the thing going to be an absurd amount of philosophy articles (and articles in every other academic subdiscipline). This might be a bad thing. I don't know. I don't think anyone really thinks about it. It's the system which enables people to make a living at philosophy through academic jobs, whether or not it's worth anything from the point of view of the study of philosophy.

>> No.2427061

>>2427003
Truth.

Sartre said it best: the intelligentsia quickly becomes an extension of the bourgeoisie when you institutionalize thought. The intellectual culture is totally fucked and moribund.

>> No.2427062

>>2427041
He was pretty awesome.

>> No.2427109
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2427109

>>2427041
>late capitalism
>mocking the People's philosophical jargon

Please refrain.

>> No.2427335

bump

>> No.2427341

Philosophy doesn't really have any limit to how good it can become. I wouldn't study it as a major, but I would go for it as a minor definitely (If my university went major/minor, I'm studing Mech. Eng fyi). I don't think getting a high end degree is as difficult, because I've learned some philosophy from a few PhD's and they definitely didn't exude the same level of intelligence as the Eng., Physics or Maths PhD's.

I have a respect for it, but it's just not marketable.

>> No.2427358

As a math undergrad, I respect philosophy as much as I respect math to some degrees. However, people who strive for it as a focus, rather than a part of their other studies, miss the real beauty of it. It creates the "box" the frame of reference we put most other knowledge into, unconsciously or consciously.

>> No.2427371

>>2427358

OPhier

How marketeable it would be if I get another major after the philosophy one?. This is my current plan. I would love to study geology or something more science related. Of course this is still uncertain and in the future.

>> No.2427394

>>2427341

>>>not marketable
>>>supply and demand died a long time ago
>>>can't sell transister radios to tinkerers
>>>learn to late capitalism bro

>> No.2427417

i like that you picked that picture to represent philosophy, or perhaps the rigors of philosophy.

>> No.2427429
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2427429

>>2427371

Unless you're doing engineering or medicine not marketable at all. Anyone who claims otherwise is a liar, an idiot, or a troll.

>> No.2427437

>>2427429
word.
that's why I'm skipping going to university for four years, getting thousands of dollars in debt, being unemployed for two years, and then going to community college so I can get a marketable skill.

im just going into marine engineering. fastest growing field in the market (besides IT which sounds sucky) bitches!

>> No.2427452

Science is more respected than philosophy because it has actually produced answers to its questions.

Philosophy just can't into answers for some reason. Only more questions. This is probably due to many of the questions simply having no answer. However, I do think the philosophy of the present is superior to that of the past (at least in ontology and epistemology, ethics is still completely up in the air).

>> No.2427475

>>2427452
science produces theories, bro. they ain't absolute answers. science = philosophy

>> No.2427478

>>2427452
The answers science has provide have changed over time.

>> No.2427482

Philosophy PhD students are second only to Physics PhD students in GRE scores.

That said, most philosophy majors and philosophy BAs at most schools are easy, bullshit degrees.

>> No.2427489

>>2427429

> Saying geology not marketable.
> The highest employment rate of all bachelor's degrees.

>> No.2427490

>>2427452
When Philosophy can definitively answer a question it ceases to be Philosophy at all and enters the realm of science, all modern sciences grew out of philosophy.

>> No.2427494
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2427494

>>2427490

>> No.2427544

Depends on what you mean by the hardest.

The hardest field is philosophy as that is the most broad of any field and no agreed upon methodology etc. Physics is a rather easy subject because it is easy to study physical stuff. This is why we have gotten so far in the physics field.

As for the hardest degree to get, that is by far physics due to all the advanced math. As such, it should command more respect, and it does.

FYI, I study philosophy myself and often have this discussion with physicists.

>> No.2427546

>>2426903
You seem to have committed the etymological fallacy. http://www.fallacyfiles.org/etymolog.html