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/lit/ - Literature

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Napoleon !!rEkSWzi2+mz Wed Feb 22 15:51:09 2012 No.2426354 [Reply] [Original]

I believe that although some say the Lord of the Flies represents Satan. I have realized that it symbolizes the thought of God, and how it is impossible for God to be both omnipotent and not malevolent. Thoughts /lit/?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 15:54:09 2012 No.2426358 >>2426354 It represents Beelzebub.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 15:59:08 2012 No.2426371 File: 30 KB, 265x475, 147923229.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2426358 might be true, my copy even has a picture of beelzebub on the cover. however, at least here in germany beelzebub is a synonym for satan.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 16:03:08 2012 No.2426374 >>2426371 Yes it is, and its name literally means "lord of the flies", which is why there is very little room for debate.

>>	Napoleon !!rEkSWzi2+mz Wed Feb 22 16:06:09 2012 No.2426382 >>2426374 Well even nearly closed topics can be open for interpretation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 16:09:08 2012 No.2426387 >>2426382 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba%CA%BFal#Ba.CA.BFal_Zeb.C3.BBb

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 16:12:08 2012 No.2426393 He's saying that Lord of the Flies says that Beelzebub is God.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 16:14:10 2012 No.2426397 File: 495 KB, 194x172, mike.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2426371 can i come live with you

Napoleon !!rEkSWzi2+mz Wed Feb 22 16:15:10 2012 No.2426399

The "Lord of the Flies" proves that if there is a god then he is a malevolent being full of antipathy for mankind. The lord of the flies or the pig head on a stake represents god. Simon representing the potential religious messenger or messiah. The pig says he has causes every bad thing to happen, yet is capable of deafening the depravity of man. Some may say the lord is representing the Devil. If this is true, the who is the opposite? Even Simon has his moments of savagery. The pig is no devil the pig is the smug symbol of god, or the lord of the humans who sheep around him. There is no god.

Something I wrote last time I read LotF.

>>	Napoleon !!rEkSWzi2+mz Wed Feb 22 16:18:08 2012 No.2426403 >>2426399 Sorry for the typos. I wrote this on my phone.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 16:23:08 2012 No.2426407 >>2426399 The idea of Beelzebub is fundamentally derogatory or perceived false idol worship i.e. that you are flies worshiping a pile of dung and not the true god. See Thomas Kelly Cheyne.

Anonymous Wed Feb 22 16:44:09 2012 No.2426441

>this thread
wtf

Remember how all the "Lord of the Flies" shit starts with? A schizophrenic kid hallucinates it. The rest just start believing in it driven by fear. The point is that humans accept beliefs in a community when determined factors as fear, the feeling of pertaining to a group and the feeling of superiority intervene. Golding is just portraying human behavior, and not trying to make some kind of metaphysical allegory or shit like this.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 16:46:08 2012 No.2426449 >>2426441 >Golding is just portraying human behavior, and not trying to make some kind of metaphysical allegory or shit like this. 1. How do you know? 2. Death of the author.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 16:50:08 2012 No.2426456 >>2426441 Oh come on, everyone knows schizophrenia doesn't present until about the 20s, kid was way too young, it was probably just trauma or something.

Anonymous Wed Feb 22 16:54:08 2012 No.2426470

>>2426456
I don't remember exactly but now i seem to remember that he was epileptic or... Whatever. He hallucinates it, that's the point.

>>2426449

>1. How do you know?
I read the book. You just need to read and try to get what's the whole fucking point of the author and stop trying to interpret all kind of bizarre paranoia.
>2. Death of the author.
so...?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 16:55:08 2012 No.2426473 I don't know, but for me it has nothing to do with Satan.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 16:58:08 2012 No.2426484 >>2426470 >You just need to read and try to get what's the whole fucking point of the author and stop trying to interpret all kind of bizarre paranoia. >My interpretation is fact and the only correct one You were spoilt as a child, weren't you?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:06:08 2012 No.2426494 Why was it called "Lord of the Flies"? It was all about some faggot little kids who liked touching each others wee-wees and blowing on a conch like it was a cock. Shit book. It shouldn't be "studied" or "analised" at all

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:08:08 2012 No.2426497 >>2426494 Oh lord I chortled

Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:10:08 2012 No.2426500

>>2426470
>I read the book. You just need to read and try to get what's the whole fucking point of the author and stop trying to interpret all kind of bizarre paranoia.

You've concluded that a book NAMED AFTER SATAN where a bunch of kids start a RELIGION is "not trying to make some kind of metaphysical allegory or shit like this"?

You didn't do too well with book reports, did you?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:14:08 2012 No.2426511 Jesus christ, reasonably intelligent discussion about deeper interpretation of a novel? On /lit/? I must be dreaming.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:16:08 2012 No.2426517 >>2426500 ...Did you even read? Why a bunch of kids on an island? To simulate early civilizations. And the rest... well, you just need to read. I think it's pretty obvious what the intention of the author is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:18:08 2012 No.2426522 >god >malevolent >trying to give god human morality

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:18:09 2012 No.2426525 >>2426517 >>2426500 Hey! Here's an idea! Maybe it represents both of those things! Especially since the formation of civilization and the formation of religion are kinda related.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:20:08 2012 No.2426531 >>2426525 Exactly, but not from a non-pants-on-head-christian-metaphysical perspective.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:21:08 2012 No.2426537 >>2426531 >not Oops, forget this word

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:26:08 2012 No.2426555 >>2426531 I don't know, I felt there was /some/ christian meaning to it, like anon was saying there's the fact that "lord of the flies" mean beelzebub, but to be honest I read the book too long ago to really join in with the debate.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:33:09 2012 No.2426569 The name of the fucking book is Lord of the Flies. You can't debate your way around that.

Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:34:08 2012 No.2426572

>>2426555
The figure of the devil has its base in fear. And this is the most important factor about the Lord of the Flies cult on the book. What keeps the hunter tribe united and what Golding (I think) tries to point at as the base of civilization with his "reconstruction": Fear.
This is why it's important the relation between Beelzebub and the Lord of the Flies, they are the symbol of the fear that keeps a community together.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:35:08 2012 No.2426574 >>2426572 >The figure of the devil has its base in fear. And mythos.

Anonymous Wed Feb 22 17:58:08 2012 No.2426626

>>2426441 Remember how all the "Lord of the Flies" shit starts with? A schizophrenic kid hallucinates it. The rest just start believing in it driven by fear. The point is that humans accept beliefs in a community when determined factors as fear, the feeling of pertaining to a group and the feeling of superiority intervene.

The point is that you should actually read the book. Nobody else believes what Simon sees because they kill Simon before he can tell them about it. The pig's head talks only to Simon and to the reader.

Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:03:08 2012 No.2426636

>>2426626
Simon is the one who sees the monsterS (the one before the pig head too), and tells the rest about them. They all fear the monsters, their fear is what makes them stay united in a violent society. The pig head is their totem of the group. Did you even read?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:07:08 2012 No.2426648 >>2426572 Lord of the Flies~Nuclear Annihilation, the threat is transmuted. >>2426626 Wonder if Simon was actually hallucinating ... tropical disease, malnutrition ect. ect.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:11:08 2012 No.2426659 >>2426648 He could easily be epileptic, in which case it could easily have been a hallucination.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:13:09 2012 No.2426663 How come both LotF threads ended in trolling at the same time?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:15:08 2012 No.2426667 >>2426659 >I could easily introduce lots of outside forces to the story to make up more shit Yes you could. Hey, maybe the planet was really Mars? The boys? Robots. The naval officer? Aliens

Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:15:08 2012 No.2426668

>>2426636 Simon is the one who sees the monsterS (the one before the pig head too), and tells the rest about them. They all fear the monsters, their fear is what makes them stay united in a violent society. The pig head is their totem of the group. Did you even read?

The first monster is seen by one of the young children. Simon never reports seeing a monster. In fact, it is Simon alone who discovers the truth about the dead parachutist.

They do not all fear the monsters, and they do not all stay united in a violent society. It is Ralph, Piggy and Simon's fear of violent society vs. Jack and Roger's use of it that is the central conflict of the book.

Seriously. WTF is with you?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:19:10 2012 No.2426674 >>2426668 Jack's tribe starts gaining popularity because they're the strong ones, but then fear is what keeps them united.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:22:08 2012 No.2426683 >>2426667 >He shows symptoms potential symptoms of epilepsy >I say that he could possibly be epileptic "LOL JUST UR MAKING UP BOLLOCKS" ok

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:26:09 2012 No.2426692 >>2426683 You're confusing hallucinations with seizures, amongst other things.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:27:09 2012 No.2426698 >>2426692 >Implying that temporal lobe seizures can't cause complex hallucinations

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:30:08 2012 No.2426706 >>2426698 >implying that kind of epilepsy doesn't also make people crazy aggressive

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 22 18:34:09 2012 No.2426725 >>2426706 D'you have a source for that? If it's always true I'll concede the point, I wasn't aware of that.

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