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2425338 No.2425338 [Reply] [Original]

I want to read really engrossing, page turning nonfiction that isn't shit.

No Outliers, no Henrietta Lacks, none of that shit.

Pic related, it's what my friend recommended, and I've heard of it before, but I'm worried it's shit. Is it good?

Or do you have any other recommendations?

>> No.2425341

Read that newish biography of Jesse James by T.J. Stiles. Pretty interesting, and you learn quite a bit about the American Civil War.

>> No.2425342

>>2425341
hey thanks, just checked that out and it looks like it fits the bill

i'd still like to hear any other comments on Guns, Germs, and Steel or other nonfiction

>> No.2425353

I like Diamond. If you want other nonfiction macrohistory, this page has numerous good books:

http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/notebooks/world-history.html

>> No.2425359

>>2425342

I've read about half of 'Collapse' and while it was interesting and worthwhile I disliked his overwhelming concentration on ecological history. It felt disgenuine for a history writer to be doing so, and while I was probably wrong to be cynical it was nonetheless cynicism that I had.

You have to be careful with macrohistory, I feel - events can be portrayed too simply, whereas human history is a relationship between events that cannot be entirely explained. Perhaps things just happened, or happened at the whim of an ambitious peasant; maybe it wasn't because this coal-laden canyon seperated these two states

>> No.2425361

>>2425338
>Diamond

It's like he doesn't even try to hide his agenda.

It's shit. Don't read it.

>> No.2425363

>>2425359
yeah the cause of events is definitely the sum of an uncountable number of other events and it's difficult to trust anyone who tries to pinpoint definitive causes

that's what tolstoy says in war and peace anyhow

>> No.2425364

>>2425361
what is his agenda? are you stormfront? why did you sage?

>> No.2425368

>>2425364
Am I stormfront? No, I am not a website. I find it funny that I didn't mention anything about his ethnicity and i'm implicitly called a racist. You should do some reading on some of the things he has said and then read some of the book online.

>> No.2425372

>>2425368
or you could just write one or two sentences to help a nigga out

>> No.2425401

>>2425372
This. If you claim someone has a blatant political agenda you have to, at the very least, state what you think that agenda is.

>> No.2425406

Any other non-fiction recommendations?

The best of the best type stuff

>> No.2425409

American Shaolin

Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World

>> No.2425413

>>2425368
>>2425361

I'm just going to assume that this person heard this from someone he respects and that's now his own outlook. No research from his part to create an actual informed opinion.

>> No.2425415

Paradigms Lost (and Paradigms Regained would be good to get too for a companion update), Pale Blue Dot, or The Selfish Gene for pop-sci.

Many Are The Crimes: McCarthyism in America, Where Have All the Soldiers Gone: The Transformation of Modern Europe, Fatal Purity: Robespierre and the French Revolution, and Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk for history.

I'm basing these on being interesting reads rather than technical prowess, really.

>> No.2425424

Also The Tao of Physics for pop-sci.

Debt: The First 5000 Years deserves a mention, too.

Essays: Armageddon in Retrospect by Vonnegut, All Art Is Propaganda and Facing Unpleasant Facts by Orwell, Essays of Montaigne, Slouching Towards Bethlehem by Joan Didion

>> No.2425460

>>2425413
It's part of the edgy 'Let's hate everything popular' culture that's rampant on the Internet. Some of these people do seem to have actual lucid arguments for why his book is in-factual but I couldn't relate them to you.

>> No.2425479

>>2425338
OP I quite like the research and method that went into Guns, Germs and Steel, however, after a certain point the message just repeats itself but with different proof - e.g., it's very important for a scientific book to give all proof the author can think of, but it's hardly engrossing.

>>2425359
>It felt disgenuine for a history writer to be doing so

I don't understand your point, it's history fused with biology - Diamond is a Professor of Geology and Physiology, and has published a couple of books on evolution.

OP, have you tried Zinn's
A People's History of the United States? Be the facts that they may be (the hate the Internet has for this book....) I found it to be well-written and quite engrossing.

>> No.2425516

>>2425413
>>2425460
I said read some of the things he has said, specifically about his own people, jews, and then read some of his book online. Figure it out for yourself, you fucking children.

If you're really that inept, read some critiques online.

>> No.2425518

"The Art of War", or "The selfish gene"

>> No.2425527

>>2425516
why even make a comment or interject yourself into the conversation to begin with if you're not going to explain yourself?

>"that book is shit"
>"oh really? why do you think so?"
>"look it up for yourself you child!!!!!"

>> No.2425529

what people think of the Emperor of all Maladies?

>> No.2425530

no that one is shit
don't read it

>> No.2425534

>>2425530
oh really? why do you think so?

>> No.2425547
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2425547

>>2425516
>google "Jared Diamond jews"
>fourth link is stormfront

>> No.2425548

I enjoyed Guns, Germs and Steel, and made it most of the way through his next book, Collapse.

Personally I thought certain chapters of Collapse were awesome but a lot of them were just plain dull. Some of his information on the Mayans and Eastern Islanders was shocking and enjoyable to learn about but his introduction and focus on the present (Montana/Wyoming deal) was dull and it seemed he was trying to hard to make it seem like his other examples.

Like someone said before about GG&S, he presents every piece of evidence he has. That is why I feel it's okay to skip around a little through the book and some parts are certainly very interesting.

>> No.2425550

>>2425548
Also, why the hate for Outliers? Gladwell presents information and a way of looking at it that is different from the norm. I'm not saying he is an incredible writer or that all of his facts are that convincing but the book itself was interesting.

>> No.2425554

>>2425550
i just thought it was boring, he takes so long to say both things that are interesting and common sense and i don't have the inclination to wade through pages of common sense shit to find the few parts where what he's talking about is insightful.

>> No.2425584

>>2425579
Fucking this.

Very well written.

>> No.2425579

The Great Influenza

>> No.2425599

Check out Chris Hedges, if you haven't already...

>> No.2425600

Civilization; The West and the Rest.

-Niall Ferguson

"page turner that isn't shit" here you are.

>> No.2425603
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2425603

I have GGAS. I still remember the bit where he accuses everyone who disagrees with the theory of being, DIRECT QUOTE: "white racists". I had a nice laugh right there, then. Having another here, now, as people are "stormfags" for being in disagreement with Diamond's cool story.

The way he describes the changes of agricultural animals, and man-driven evolution of food crops, berries, beans, peas et al, is fascinating to read in a book that departs from the notion that human evolution stopped -- mind you, he does recognize evolution of our immunity systems; guns GERMS and steel -- and everyone everywhere, in every culture, in every enviroment, is exactly alike.

The intellectual gymnastics conducted to hop over and around the pitfalls are a feat to witness, combined with the neat tidbits and factoids about alien cultures, ways and habits make GGAS a fun book to read. Just don't swallow the thing without chewing.

>> No.2425606

>>2425603
>departs from
departs with*

>> No.2425607

>>2425516
try and be cool dude. No need to blow a head gasket. We are talking about books, for fuck sake!

>> No.2425610

>>2425606
why are you saging this thread? What is the problem? Is the problem that you haven't read the book and you're butthurt?

>> No.2425613
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2425613

>>2425610
Jesus fucking christ, I just corrected my own mishap.

>> No.2425624

Jared Diamons's argument covers only the resource aspect and does not go into detail on the formation of nation-states, geopolitical situations, empires, conquests which massively shaped the world.

Jared Diamond is not a historian; he is a professor of physiology at the UCLA School of Medicine. It can be expected that while he understands the unequal GEOGRAPHICAL distribution of resources he does not understand the unequal POLITICAL distribution of resources, a subject much more relevant to history.

Much of his argument relies on archaeological finds of dubious meaning and he does not take into account the detailed military history of the past few thousand years - the years actually written down in the records.

>> No.2425633

>>2425584
Great influenza has a bunch of people on goodreads ripping into the writing, specifically the poor quality of editing

>> No.2425639

>>2425603
Thanks for your critique. The other guy (or maybe you earlier) just said "the author has an agenda" and then refused to elaborate, which is why he was met with derision.

>> No.2425651
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2425651

>>2425633
I don't remember the writing itself, which I guess means it wasn't so bad, imo. The story itself doesn't need any embellishing, just someone to tell it clearly, which the author accomplished. Some scary little bugs.

>> No.2425674

plagues and peoples, by william hardy mcneil

but maybe too much science for you goons

>> No.2425698

>>2425674

One of my sources for a paper I wrote on the Columbian Exchange. Good read.

>> No.2425713

OP if you want a jist of GGaS you can watch the documentary from NatGeo

>> No.2425798
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2425798

The World That Never Was: A True Story of Dreamers, Schemers, Anarchists and Secret Agents, by Alex Butterworth
>History of the first "war on terror" and the anarchist movement in europe in the 19th century

Blood River
Tim Butcher
>horrifying account of a journey through the congo

War Junkie
Jon Steele
>Travels of a cameraman in war zone around the world. One of the most terrifying books I've ever read.

The Gun: The Story of the AK-47
C. J. Chivers
>about the gun and it's impact on the world.

Red Plenty
Francis Spufford
>What if the Soviet 'miracle' had worked, and the communists had discovered the secret to prosperity, progress and happiness...?

>> No.2425812

I really like Jared Diamonds book, and as a complete pessimist and cynic (and not that big a fan of isreal) I can detect no "agenda". He is a geologist and anthropologist writing an anthropological history. I think the Easter Island chapter in Collapse was extremely well written, and frankly a "holy shit" moment.

OP, two books for ya.

Paul Kennedys Rise and Fall of the Great Powers
rebellion in the backlands by euclides da cunha (or Os Sertões)

>> No.2425816

Fooled by Randomness and The Black Swan by Nassim Nicholas Taleb

>> No.2425866

>>2425812
see
>>2425603

If you can't see the agenda, it's your own.

>> No.2425875

>>2425866
Naw, stormfags are so blinded by their own agenda that they see ghosts.

Humanity has enough problems with greed, cruelty, avarice, and its own animal and barbaric nature. Racial conspiracy theory is for the weakminded. See Dylan, Bob: Only a Pawn in Their Game

>> No.2425893
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2425893

>>2425875
>stormfags
There it is again.

>> No.2425900

>>2425893
And there you are

>> No.2425907
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2425907

>> No.2425925

>>2425907
>Are you lose the debate? Claim that your opposition's insinuations of racism are just a hollow distraction, silencing them, which ends the argument allowing you to claim victory. A public service announcement from America's conservatives.