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/lit/ - Literature

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2416864 No.2416864 [Reply] [Original]

Will we ever have another Borges?

Pynchon and Bloom seem to be the closest right now, but both of them lack so much...

Is it even possible to achieve his level of erudition given the developments in literature in the last century?

>> No.2416867

no. why would you want another borges? if you aren't satisfied with what you've read of borges, read the things he alludes to, that will both deepen your understanding of borges' work and take you some time.

>> No.2416872

>>2416867
It's less about my relation to Borges than it is Borges's relation to literature.

We need someone to move shit forward. Borges invented the death of the author in 1939. Can you imagine a Borges reader finding Barthes in 1967? It would seem absurd. We need a similar leap for the 2010s...unless we are at the end.

And with the power of the internet he would be disseminated quickly.

>> No.2416877

Probably not.

sadface

>> No.2416885

It's interesting you would mention Bloom in relation to Borges.

How does Bloom feel about Borges? It seems like Borges' ideas (like those of Derrida) are responsible for exactly the kind of reading that Bloom seems to detest.

>> No.2416888

>>2416885

He considers Borges an essential part of the western cannon.

>> No.2416891

>>2416885
Bloom recognizes Borges as a great writer but partly dismisses him as "repetitive" (he doesn't like the fact that similar concepts show up frequently) and completely ignores him as a reader and critic.

>> No.2416894

>>2416891

>and completely ignores him as a reader and critic.

I see. That's a shame. That's where he really shines to me.

>> No.2416898

>>2416891
>>2416885
What?

Bloom loves Borges. Sure, Borges isn't as good as Shakespeare, but Borges is everywhere in Bloom.

The whole genealology of influence of Bloom is lifted directly from Borges (ex. Kafka and his Precursors). All the gnostic stuff Bloom loves, that's from Borges.

Bloom doesn't really dislike Derrida. They're pretty similar and no doubt Derrida influenced Bloom when he came to Yale. Bloom just doesn't really see the point to deconstruction. He doesn't disagree with it, but just thinks it's not that useful and thinks that no one other than Derrida or DeMan are worthwhile deconstruction critics.

Their main difference is that Borges is more Jungian (see: gnosticism) and repetitive, whereas Bloom worships Shakespeare who is never repetitive, and Bloom is more Freudian, though still professing to be a 'jewish gnostic.'

tl;dr everything good about Bloom he stole from Borges and he knows this

>> No.2416905
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2416905

>>2416891
The Question is how does Borges feel about Bloom?

>> No.2416907

>>2416898
Obviously Kafka and his Precursors is a great influence on Bloom, but where does he admit it?

>Junginan (see: gnosticism)

But at best that's just a misreading. Borges's fundamental attitude toward literature was "let's fuck around and see if anything entertaining and interesting comes out". I honestly believe Borges was a great skeptic at heart, and any other pretenses were just for show.

As Borges writes in Tlon...

>metaphysics is a branch of fantastic literature.

None of the gnostic (or mystical) stuff in Borges is to be taken "seriously". And Bloom exhibits none of this playfulness.

>> No.2416912

>>2416907
Good points. I don't think Borges would consider himself Jungian. It's more of a categorization I was using to show the personal differences between Bloom and Borges. I'm pretty sure I read in Genius Bloom stating that he was deeply influenced by Borges and he called Borges a "great critic of influence" or something of the sort.

You're right about the Gnosticism. Although I think he takes it seriously but Borges is always highly ironic and deeply skeptic. There's this kind of agnosticism in Borges that is at once vertigo inducing and highly playful.

That said, I'm pretty convinced that Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius was way ahead of its time not only for literature/philosophy, but his predictions about the world. We're entering an age of digital monism and we will become more and more gnostic. The world will become Tlon. People will forget that it's laws are created by men, not angels etc etc

It's something I'm working on...