/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.24130018]

Is there a macedonian/helenistic chart?

I know there's Greek ones but they seem to always run through xenophon history wise. They'll include Aristotle for philosophy but then skip anything else.

Then charts jump to Rome.

I would think you'd want to include demosthenes' speeches, perhaps a general history of the period, primary sources are harder since there ain't much left but maybe arrian/polybius? Could also include maccabees. Might also have to have a break down for each nation that came out of it (sleucus, ptolemy, etc.)

[Anonymous No.24130214]

Bump

[Anonymous No.24130236]

People who havent read polybius dont know fucking anything its wild.

[Anonymous No.24130239]

Pic related final boss of hellenism lit

[Anonymous No.24130254]

>>24130236
>>24130239
What specifically about polybius?

And like I said hellenistic period is tough just because there isn't much from the actual period vs the earlier Greek era and then the Roman era. Not dogging these books, I simply don't know if they're the ones to go with. I recently picked up house of seleucus by Edwyn Bevan and while it is older it is supposedly a good narrative of that nation.

And I'd make a chart but I simply have not read enough on the period. If I ever do I may put one together but that would be years from now if ever

[Anonymous No.24130260]

>>24130254
Actually the hellenestic period has many more sources than any earlier period but not the romans

[Anonymous No.24130268]

>>24130260
>Actually the hellenestic period has many more sources than any earlier period but not the roman
Can you provide some of those? Seems like it's always from after Rome has taken over (polybius/arrian), a fragment, or an epitome of a longer work that is lost

Additionally I guess berossus and manetho could be included on the list but they deal with periods well before Alexander

[Anonymous No.24130290]

>>24130268
Plutarch and diodorus are the main sources + polybius. And yes there are a lot of fragments, think everything in the library at Alexandria.

[Anonymous No.24130296]

>>24130290
>Plutarch and diodorus
Thank you. I still need to read these but I didn't realize that didorus discussed the hellenistic era.

[Anonymous No.24130792]

[Anonymous No.24130874]

>>24130792
>In the Alexander Romance, Alexander the Great crosses the Land of Darkness in his search for the Water of Life. After passing through Russia and coming almost to the edge of the world, Alexander finds the darkened country and travels it with his servant Andreas (in the Persian version of the Romance, this servant is identified with the enigmatic Quranic figure of al-Khidr). Alexander cannot find his way through the darkness, but his servant does. Andreas drinks of the Water of Life and becomes immortal. The same story is found in the Arabic tradition identifying Dhu al-Qarnayn with Alexander.
Did this actually happen?

[Anonymous No.24130970]

>>24130792
Thanks anon

[Anonymous No.24131006]

>>24130874
No.

[Anonymous No.24131031]

>>24130874
Yes

[Anonymous No.24131183]

>>24130792
Oh yeah forgot about justin

[Anonymous No.24131295]

>>24130874
Alexander was so epic brown people started mythifing him as a sort of Herculean figure in their tales

[Anonymous No.24132257]

>>24131183
Yeah that's what I was talking about previously. Epitomes, so summary of the actual work

[Anonymous No.24132514]

>>24132257
Since you will nevr read the original you'll just have to accrpt it. Justin is more than just an epitomizer however just as diodorus is more than just an epitomizer of ephorus

[Anonymous No.24132576]

>>24132514
>you will nevr read the original you'll just have to accrpt it
Very sad

[Anonymous No.24132587]

>>24132576
Not as sad as you might think, since the traditions are well preserved. Timeaus for example is preserved as the source in plutarch, polybius, and diodorus. Advanced ancient historians can begin to reconstruct the original once they know the subsequent material well enough. Naturally this requires extensive subject reading which is beyond most people.

[Anonymous No.24132637]

>>24132587
Is pic related just the fragments collected together or is it a legitamate attempt at recreating the original?

My only concern if the latter is possible fan fic (which history no doubt has in it anyway)

[Anonymous No.24132646]

>>24132637
I can't say I've read that particular source as its cost is prohibitively high. However, i can say that its undoubtedly professional scholarship that will no doubt - by necessity - focus on the historiography since thats all their is. I wouldn't recommend paying the hundreds of dollars this costs unless you are REALLY interested in academic study of sicilian historiography during the prehellenistic period.

[Anonymous No.24132711]

>>24130268
>>24130296
I made this a while ago. actually, I made it exactly because it's really awkward to skip from Thucydides to Livy as the charts would have you do.

you'd want to start at (g.) in the recommended reading order, but in this case I would start with
Plutarch's Life of Demosthenes just before that
then follow the chart, and read as much from Plutarch's Lives that chronologically follow Alexander until you get to Aratus and Agis
then read Polybius in full
then finish with the Lives of Aratus, Agis, and Philopoemen

Diodorus was from Sicily himself (obviously) and covers the island extensively while Polybius gets you to mainland Greece. after reading all of these, you won't find yourself with many questions that fragmentary works can answer

[Anonymous No.24132747]

>>24132711
Thank you

[Anonymous No.24132792]

>>24132711
This is pretty good. Thank you

[Anonymous No.24132803]

>>24132711
Good advice, this is how I did it. The fastest possible way to do this is to just read all diodorus and then all polybius, but naturally you'd miss all the nuance in isocrates and Xenophon and demosthenes etc. I tend to read a few books of the histories and then go flesh them out with plutarch or nepos or terrance even. Plutarch is (as I've argued elsewhere) the most important historian of all time as without him the historical narratives would be too bland and mechanical.

[Anonymous No.24133200]

What's the best book on Greek vases or art?

[Anonymous No.24134720]

>>24130018
The LXX

[Anonymous No.24134873]

>>24134720
Agreed.