/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.24020013]

>Publishers are now outright refusing to even read young white men's books
Where do we go from here?
What are the consequences of shutting out an entire generation of men from the literature market?

[Anonymous No.24020016]

>>24020013
>this thread again

If you guys haven’t worked it out in the previous threads it isn’t going to happen here. White incel vent thread

[Anonymous No.24020018]

>>24020016
I have a girlfriend. She's upset about it as well.

[Anonymous No.24020020]

>>24020018
how big is her cock

[Anonymous No.24020032]

>>24020020
it's a prime number (cm)

[Anonymous No.24020041]

>>24020013
Speaking as a middle aged white male, good. Nothing lost. I can not recall seeing anything of worth from zoomer white males so far, just complaining and justifications of their existence.

[Anonymous No.24020043]

>>24020041
Harsh. They have beenn completely undermined and demonised their entire lives. What do you expect to happen?

[Anonymous No.24020044]

>>24020041
>"speaking as an old faggot who hasn't accomplished anything, I'm glad young writers aren't getting recognized, it makes me feel better about being a failure"

[Anonymous No.24020050]

>>24020041
This. What would a zoomer have to say that is of value or what artistic merit in the written word has one ever shown? Fact is /lit/ went to hell when it became a zoomer board

[Anonymous No.24020058]

>>24020043
>undermined and demonised
I would say coddled and sheltered. Either way I am against affirmative action and don't think they should be published unless they can produce something worth publishing.
>>24020044
I am published, nothing major yet but I have not been writing for long so just a few midsized journals so far. I was a music fag until covid killed the live music scene which provided a decent chunk of my income so around 2022 I started exploring other options and started writing for the first time since high school.
>>24020050
/lit/ went to hell after stormfags and incels showed up. No matter how bad it is now it is a tiny bit better than it was in those days, considerably better than it was during covid tourism.

[Anonymous No.24020062]

>>24020041
>>24020058
Abhorrent boomer

[Anonymous No.24020064]

>>24020058
old bitter retard

/thread

[Anonymous No.24020065]

The answer is always the same. Start your own literary movement. However /lit/ can't even start a successful book club or zine, let alone an entire movement.

What we need to do is something like Mensa but for men who actually enjoy reading. Something that seems exclusive and prestigious but unlike Mensa, actually offers rewards to members. Maybe something like: write 100 book reviews or help out with a new zine for 1 year and we'll consider publishing your manuscript.

[Anonymous No.24020066]

Zoomers in a tizzy itt

[Anonymous No.24020069]

>>24020062
>>24020064
So zoomers should be published even if everything they write is complete shit? In this case affirmative action is good and we should document and preserve the zoomer legacy of mediocrity? Is this what you are saying?

[Anonymous No.24020072]

>>24020013
Umm sweetie we already have thousands of books why do we need another, especially by a white male?

[Anonymous No.24020073]

>>24020013
I know I sound like an idiot, but I'm spending 25k self publishing a book as a white man because while agents seemed interested and said my writing was "strong", they just didn't "connect with it".

And then I wrote as an experiment I'm a gay man writing from that perspective and instantly got 2 full read requests.

So yeah.

[Anonymous No.24020074]

>>24020073
Are you a good-looking gay man?

[Anonymous No.24020076]

>>24020074
No but I've been told I am good looking.

[Anonymous No.24020077]

>>24020041
jews aren’t white jedediah

[Anonymous No.24020079]

>>24020077
>t. Jew false flagging as a /pol/tard to make /pol/tards look like retards because they are

[Anonymous No.24020085]

>>24020073
$25,000? You know you can self publish for $0, right? Or are you making a bunch of custom leather bound books?

[Anonymous No.24020088]

>>24020085
he means self publish for people to actually read it, not self publish so he can tell retards on this board he's published

[Anonymous No.24020090]

>>24020088
what do you think "self publish" means?

[Anonymous No.24020092]

>>24020090
I'm not answering your questions you obese moron, if you don't understand you can just remain stupid for eternity I guess

[Anonymous No.24020094]

>>24020088
Yes, this.

7k on an editor, 2-3k on a professional cover, the rest marketing online and in person.

I got the money as a gift. I see the funding to self publish as an investment in building a reader base. It's the first book in a series.

[Anonymous No.24020095]

>>24020094
Is it just fantasy slop?

[Anonymous No.24020096]

i read old stuff anyway

[Anonymous No.24020099]

>>24020013
Maybe stop depending on gay Jews who hate you and want you to die? There's more than one source out there.

[Anonymous No.24020103]

>>24020058
>/lit/ went to hell after stormfags and incels showed up.
/lit/ was actually good back in 2019 and 2020. Now it's just shit. I come here maybe once a month and stay for 10 minutes.

[Anonymous No.24020104]

>>24020095
No, it's a scifi book. I've been told by beta readers and people in the industry they were "impressed by the unique high concept" and "imagination"

Only criticism I got from a few was my dialogue is slightly expository ocassionally-hence the hiring of an editor to clean that shit up.

[Anonymous No.24020106]

>>24020013
I'm white and published.

[Anonymous No.24020110]

>>24020096
It's the principle of the thing, anon.

[Anonymous No.24020111]

>>24020073
>but I'm spending 25k self publishing a book
Better use for the money than buying a car. Over two decades I spent nearly 10 times that on studio time, it was worth it. Money is pretty easy to get, most people are just incapable of saving.
>>24020077
Norwegian and British descent.
>>24020103
>/lit/ was actually good back in 2019 and 2020
So were you a stormfag or an incel?

[Anonymous No.24020113]

>>24020111
>>24020073 (You)
>but I'm spending 25k self publishing a book
Better use for the money than buying a car. Over two decades I spent nearly 10 times that on studio time, it was worth it. Money is pretty easy to get, most people are just incapable of saving.

I'm pursuing a career in writing full blown. Never giving up on it. I'll build and build a following and work towards success even if it takes 15 years to get there.

I realize I'll be an old man one day, and I don't want to be on my deathbed filled with regret.

[Anonymous No.24020121]

>tfw you're a mutt halfbreed and could get published whenever you like but don't because it's like playing with a handicap
if i ever submit, i'll send it in as "Luke Smith" or "Paul Davis"

[Anonymous No.24020124]

>>24020016
Ask me how I know you're a fat female.

[Anonymous No.24020125]

>>24020013
We need to rise up, rise as one,
rise and storm with blood and bone,
take by force, send to gallows,
those who stop us and wallow
in the filth literature, entartete,
instead of reading their literary better,
dead white men they call our heritage,
our superior prose they call privilege,
under the fourty seven, all will change,
these weaklings will no longer have fame,
great men will be published again,
no more rupi kaur, to be the main
poet that all read, but Shakespeare,
Pound, Eliot, Tennyson appear,
nature's blood not period blood,
read not the works from mud,
but only coming from radiant light,
from men who will not give up the fight,
eternal war will be here again,
no weak allowed in master plan,
no lead weights around our heads,
only the stars to be our friends.
Rise up, rise up and rage,
turn again history's page,
see the fire burn in our eyes,
the return of Roman Empire.

[Anonymous No.24020126]

>>24020013
If you guys want this to gain any real traction, you need to stop seeing this as a "white men" issue since that makes it easily dismissed as racism, incel shit, etc. Straight men in general are finding it nearly impossible to get published as debut authors nowadays. Women have taken over the industry and are the bulk of the sales, so they see no real need to appeal to men outside of a few dwindling genres.

[Anonymous No.24020127]

>>24020041
>White
Jews aren't white
>>24020050
>uses "this"
>Accuses zoomers of being artistically bankrupt
You will never be a woman.
>>24020066
OY VAY!

[Anonymous No.24020129]

>>24020126
>woman
Jews anon, jews run the publishing cartels.

[Anonymous No.24020130]

>>24020013
>Where do we go from here?
a DEI name generator when submitting excerpts to editors
>>24020041
thanks for your input schlomo

[Anonymous No.24020176]

>>24020016
I honestly dont get what the issue is with self publishing. Sure, no one will notice you but I fail to understand what making an appeal to authority is so important for disenfranchised men. As a man you should not care about popularity. That is a very feminine quality that should thoroughly be patronized. Literally just write your shit, charge a small fee and send it to people who will actually care. Stop capitulating to people who don't respect you. It's like being a cuckold or into findom basically. Unless that's what you're into then don't let me stop you. You made your bed. Lie in it.

[Anonymous No.24020179]

>>24020013
from a business standpoint why should they hire men if female oriented books sell better?

[Anonymous No.24020180]

>>24020104
>scifi

Oof!

[Anonymous No.24020181]

>>24020179
why should countries allow black immigrants if white immigrants assimilate and contribute better?

[Anonymous No.24020183]

>>24020094
>7k on an editor,
I will do it for you for 6

[Anonymous No.24020185]

>>24020013
There's no reason not to root for the breakdown of the social order at this point.

That's why I'm so excited that that health insurance CEO got whacked. Anarchy is coming and all these losers are going to be screwed by the very audience they didn't have any interest in. I hope all those fat white lesbians are good shots, for their sake. But they're probably not. It's gonna be fun. We're moving into a setting where young white men will be in prime position.

[Anonymous No.24020186]

>>24020094
>2-3k on a professional cover
i will do it for you for $200

[Anonymous No.24020188]

>>24020176
because the problem is the big five publishers hold a monopoly over shelf space in retail stores. And no matter how much you try to downplay the importance of bookstores, the fact is Walmart sells 80% of printed books in the US, and they will never ever sell self published books.

It's not a matter of popularity. It's a matter of do you want readers, and if you don't there's no need to publish at all.

[Anonymous No.24020189]

>>24020188
No good books were ever bought in a Walmart

[Anonymous No.24020197]

>>24020189
Cope.

[Anonymous No.24020202]

are there examples of self-published authors from the past 5 or 10 years who have actually had undeniable success?

like earned money, publicity, and now have a sizeable readerbase and don't have to worry about promotion for future releases?

[Anonymous No.24020205]

>>24020202
The Martian by Andy Weir

[Anonymous No.24020211]

>>24020205
well how did he do it

[Anonymous No.24020218]

>>24020181
Why do you keep wanting businesses to do what countries do?

[Anonymous No.24020219]

>>24020202
All those book tubers like Daniel Greene. Hell RC Waldun now has like 500k a video and his book sells well too

[Anonymous No.24020220]

>>24020211
Andy Weir had a large readership before he self published. He had people asking him to self publish. Then when he did he had an instant success.

[Anonymous No.24020268]

>>24020013
self publish. I write for others to try and understand what I'm feeling, no money.

[Anonymous No.24020270]

>>24020129
This is true, but ultimately they will publish whatever sells and that tends to be overwhelmingly female authors writing for female audiences. It’s not any kind of personal vendetta against white men, simply that their work isn’t commercially viable for them to invest in it

[Anonymous No.24020283]

>>24020270
>their work isn’t commercially viable for them to invest in it.
But that's a lie. Of course when you stop making things for men they will stop supporting you.

[Anonymous No.24020293]

>>24020188
Why do you care? Be honest. Because I think you just want adoration and money. You don't actually care about your writing. You just want fame. Very bad faith acting.

[Anonymous No.24020303]

>>24020283
Do you think men stopped reading because people weren’t writing books for them, or did people stop writing books for men because they stopped reading? My money is on the latter, personally.

[Anonymous No.24020313]

>>24020293
I care because the entire industry is being held hostage by feminists and kikes and LGBTQs and it's utterly disgusting. Literacy rates are down. Book sales are so low they're next to dinosaur bones. The entire indistry is being propped up by English classes forcing students to buy shitty LGBTQ books.

Do I seriously have to explain to you that excluding half the fucking human race from literature is wrong? Because that's what excluding men from literature is.

[Anonymous No.24020322]

>>24020303
That's a loaded question. Men HAVENT stopped reading.

[Anonymous No.24020336]

>>24020313

I am a guy.
I would rather read about all the conspiracy theorists around the world taking videos of drones at night and discussing them being aliens or government coverups then read an actual printed book.
Something about how its actually happening in the real world and happening literally right now just makes it more interesting than the book.
The majority of its pants on head retarded but for some reason I find it entertaining.

I dont think anybody could write any type of made up story in a made up world I could find more interesting. One thing I have been hoping for is some amazing author to be fighting on the front line in Ukraine and drops an amazing book about the actual life living through that. That is the only thing I could see myself buying in this day and age.

That or if anybody actually does manage to publish a book with some interesting leaks on this current drone situation and whats going on.

[Anonymous No.24020341]

>>24020322
You’re in denial. Men absolutely have stopped reading, at least if we’re talking about fiction. All the relevant stats show this to be true. The question is. Are you gonna do anything about it or just keep whining?

[Anonymous No.24020344]

>>24020303
false dichotomy, and so oversimplifying that one can only assume you're trolling
boys have been maliciously and deliberately under-served by schooling since at least the late 1980s
this has iterative and reflexive effects
I won't even go into the broader social and technological factors that could fill books by themselves

[Anonymous No.24020356]

>>24020344
See the post I replied to:
>Of course when you stop making things for men they will stop supporting you.
Egg, meet chicken. Nowhere did I say that this is the only factor at play here, I was merely responding to a specific claim by that anon as to the direction of causality.

>maliciously and deliberately under-served by schooling
The quality of schooling has gone down across the board, not just for men. Women might have better academic opportunities in the long-term, but that shouldn’t have any bearing on reading for pleasure. I agree there are complicated issues at play here, but it doesn’t help to assume malice when incompetence is a far simpler explanation.

[Anonymous No.24020374]

>>24020058
>Either way I am against affirmative action
Lol
This is so dishonest. You are defending the affirmative action policies by attacking those who are affected negatively by it.

[Anonymous No.24020381]

>>24020013
>Where do we go from here?
I've unironically got an old female friend to agree to pretend to be me for this exact reason.

[Anonymous No.24020383]

>>24020176
>>24020293
I'm not that Anon.
I have zero interest in writing books. People who write books write them so other people can read them. You won't be read if you are self published.

By the way, this does affect readers as well, since this kind of thing reduces the quality of literature.
And this is not solely in literature. Look at the decline in quality in writing on movies and Western videogames the last few years.

[Anonymous No.24020386]

>>24020383
>Webm
This scene is played out so awkwardly, too. That's the funniest bit for me. The blank stares from the other two like even in a curated universe they're still just like what the fuck are you telling me

[Anonymous No.24020388]

>>24020013
Read the past and self-publish on Amazon Publishing.

[Anonymous No.24020395]

just write a good book

[Anonymous No.24020402]

It's not the jews or blackrock, it's just market dynamics. Woke women in the 18-35 age demographic are the vast majority of readers (and after that it's woke women in the 35-60 age demographic) so that's where all the money is hence that's what publishers cater to. Men don't read so male authors writing in "male" genres aren't financially viable.
There's still exceptions to the rule though, especially among smaller publishers putting out more niche content.

[Anonymous No.24020428]

>>24020013
Im young, white and published by a major national publisher, with a deal that they plan to keep on publishing my work and a nice agent who works with me rather well.
It's just that you faggots write poorly, most people I see who write just piss on a page, specially you reactionary "muh woke" people. Your writing is just as bad and uncreative as those DEI shills, but you just don't have the extra brownie points for being a minority, which in my eyes is a trend that's already dying off almost completely. Just be creative and write necrophilia riddled poetry like me.

[Anonymous No.24020439]

The kind of fiction book that women buy are not the woke identity politics stuff.
It is those books where
>A powerful Duke/Emperor/CEO falls in love with the protagonist. He is violent to his enemies, but gets completely obsessed with her. He has a sad past but the protagonist fix him. She has a love rival too. Also the male lead's right hand man and a rival of his also fall in love with her.

I have read some Asian series like this and I'm not gonna lie, they are pretty fun.

Fantasy books for men also sell fairly well. Brandon Sanderson, for example. And I think Japanese Light Novels are also a fairly big market (both for men and women). Needless to say, those Japanese Light Novels are also far more entertaining than woke stuff.

[Anonymous No.24020441]

>>24020013
>Where do we go from here?
Have Elon Musk and Joe Rogan start a publishing company.

[Anonymous No.24020444]

>>24020428
>Im young, white and published by a major national publisher,
Not technically a lie, but you avoided saying that you're male.
In which case either YWNBAW, or you really are a chick, in which case you were on easy mode.

[Anonymous No.24020446]

>>24020428
Tran??

Or woman

[Anonymous No.24020451]

[Anonymous No.24020462]

>>24020402
Anon, who pushes for women to go to school, read, have political opinions or be in favour of globohomo?
You will find a common denominator.

[Anonymous No.24020470]

>>24020041
>just complaining and justifications of their existence
Thats the majority of literature.

[Anonymous No.24020477]

>>24020402
>There's still exceptions to the rule though, especially among smaller publishers putting out more niche content.
Mind throwing out some examples. Not asking in a snarky way just genuinely looking for recs

[Anonymous No.24020486]

you can get an editor on the free market and publish on substack. noone needs publishers exgeptvfor good editors and publishers don't edit well anymore (time and money), there's a few left and they look for income. you're not gonna earn a lot anyway. grants are off limits which sucks, but the paperwork surrounding grant is waaaaaaay underrated by litfags, it's MASSIVE and even as a gay trans black retard you ain't gonna get each one, p.s. there's tons of little publishers and nieche shit. if you can only write when big publishing is on the table you're not a writer, but a faggot.

[Anonymous No.24020488]

>>24020477
just browse the apocalypse confidential website for stories and see where they publish and what they do great stuff

[Anonymous No.24020493]

>>24020428
true. woke lit sells bad ackchually, what publishers say off the record. the trend is ending silently already

[Anonymous No.24020513]

>>24020444
>>24020446
I just forgot to add that detail since I wrote that after just waking up 1 hour beforehand and I still felt a bit drowsy from a hangover. I am male
>>24020493
Because woke lit has a small demographic, one growing smaller every day. Compare it to other shit like YA and smut, those have a way larger audience than "romeo and juliet but a black retelling", im pretty sure you can find more people willing to read 120 days of sodom than that. They just feel obligated too, but most published books of this type sell jack shit. Hell im sure you are more likely to make a profit with a book targeting young lonely males with some right wing grifter self help bs than with woke shit these days.

[Anonymous No.24020526]

>>24020477
https://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/ keep an eye on this website. It basically aggregates publishers (and lit magazines) that are taking submissions at any given time. Another thing to keep in mind, and why a lot of people fail to get published, is that most publishers are look for something very niche so they can cater to what they think is a profitable market. Some of them will outright ask for hyper specific stuff like "horror novels set in the middle ages, no fantasy". You can't just write something random and send it in to a random publisher and except there to be a interest, everything has to be tailored to a market because at the end of the day everybody is trying to make money.

[Anonymous No.24020614]

Why are some people so sure that the decision to go woke in literature is commercial?
Western games and movies went woke and are paying hard for it.

[Anonymous No.24020619]

>>24020383
Then don't write. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.24020622]

>>24020313
>more girly complaining
Transition already

[Anonymous No.24020634]

>>24020013

[Anonymous No.24021297]

>>24020016
Don't like the topic? Don't open the thread. Simple as. Only a woman would care that topic's she doesn't approve of are being discussed.

[Anonymous No.24021644]

>>24020622
YWNBAW

[Anonymous No.24021663]

I’m thinking about submitting with an Asian woman’s name. Problem is I so obviously write for men that it’ll be hard to find a market

[Anonymous No.24021740]

>>24020356
>The quality of schooling has gone down across the board, not just for men. Women might have better academic opportunities in the long-term, but that shouldn’t have any bearing on reading for pleasure. I
You have no idea what you are talking about

[Anonymous No.24021777]

>>24020013
no consequences
because there were no rewards anyway

[Anonymous No.24021794]

>>24020313
This has been a serious rapidly growing problem since the last recession of 2009-2012. I'm done complaining about it now.
It's not like you wignats are any better since you'll just give preferential treatment to whites and not adopt true meritocratic model based on the classics.

[Anonymous No.24021803]

>>24020013
>Where do we go from here?
2015

[Anonymous No.24021869]

>>24021794
Good. Things would run better that way.

[Anonymous No.24021875]

>>24020016
Biden lost.

[Anonymous No.24022417]

>>24020341
Men and women have different reading habits. Men are more likely to read Tolkien, women are more likely to read New York Times best seller gender swapped Eragon, book 4 of the feminazi riders saga. We can see as much with the hilarious articles of feminist writers crying that they cant compete with "dead white guys" who constantly outsell them.

If you're right what can I do about it? Duct tape a novel into random men's hands? Isnt promoting the creation of literature aimed at men the best way to fix it? Why continue ostracizing them? Out of spite?

[Anonymous No.24022571]

People have been saying this issue really picked up in the last 10 years, and that might be true. But it really started earlier than that. Who were the straight white males who were supposed to take the mantle from Cormac, DeLillo, Pynchon, etc.? They gave us DFW, Jonathan Franzen, Michael Chabon. These guys all write limp-wristed milquetoast bullshit. There's no fire in their lines. DFW was clearly a genius but his prose is fucking laced with cortisol, you can just feel the anxiety and stress rippling in his narration constantly, the dude needed to join a fucking MMA gym and stop smoking weed and he needed to get some fucking pussy, which apparently he had a hard time with, probably because he was always sperging out and stuttering like he did on the Charlie Rose show all the time. The two writers from that age group who write with fire in their lines are Bret Easton Ellis and Chuck Pahliniuk, and they're both gay dudes. There hasn't been a significant straight white American male writer since Cormac, DeLillo, Pynchon. Nobody picked up the torch. The ones who tried were too busy trying to look smart or being "respectable feminist liberals" so they could make the Time's top 100 people of the year list while their vanilla ice cream books were destined for the historical dustbin.

[Anonymous No.24022586]

i am not interested in being part of "the club".

[Anonymous No.24022591]

>>24022571
Like, nice 1,100 page encyclopedic novel with 200 pages of footnotes DFW, you really gave the next generation something to emulate. What were we supposed to build on from that? Were we supposed to all start writing 2,000 page novels with 400 pages of footnotes. It's an undeniable work of sperged-out genius, and its hilarious, but it's also a complete dead-end in terms of being a link in the chain of the literary tradition. For all of his talk about sincerity, IJ almost never seems straight up sincere, it's insanely self-aware, zany, ridiculous and show-offy, and its always qualifying itself by over-examining every observation and emotion and beating it into the ground with a fucking hammer

[Anonymous No.24022670]

>>24022417
>Out of spite?
I think a large part of the cultural industry does things out of spite.

[Anonymous No.24022737]

>>24020013
Well go die in war :D

[Anonymous No.24022741]

>>24020016
Fpbp
Talk about literature already

[Anonymous No.24022749]

>>24020041
>>24020058
We're going to do things to you that have never been done before

[Anonymous No.24022752]

>>24020513
Do people genuinely care about blacks in plays? Maybe it’s just an England thing but here theatre is diverse like women playing men, asians playing whites, whites playing blacks. Nobody really cares

[Anonymous No.24022754]

>>24020176
I swear morons dont understand basic commerce and economic principles.

[Anonymous No.24022760]

>>24020188
>>24020383
Pic related was self-published and did reasonably well despite being tedious, derivative and just plain bad. If you appeal to this type of audience, the bar is incredibly low, and I would argue there has never been a better time to create a kind of right wing literary underground movement. Just imagine if some people with actual talent started going in that direction.
>>24020188
>bookstores
>Walmart
lol lmao, who cares what kind of crap Boomers and Karens read? Believe it or not, theres plenty of young men with somewhat intact intellectual curiosity out there, but they're not gonna buy books from a physical store.

[Anonymous No.24022761]

>>24022760
forgot pic

[Anonymous No.24022769]

>>24020013
Idk anon, you guys are competing against live streaming twitch/tiktok/Twitter shit that most young people spend most of their time anyway, plus a very shit education system that basically penalizes anyone with a desire to learn and grow intellectually. Nope. Even if you got rid of the DEI and muh jewz, there is alot of other shit you have to deal with too.

[Anonymous No.24022794]

>>24022571
what exactly is there significant to write about when your empire is laying on the sidewalk, bleeding and gutted, it seems to me that his writing embodies the current spirit of your culture, why would you expect anything different to come out from that

[Anonymous No.24022800]

Who cares, even if they did publish a white male author talking about conservative values, you wouldn't read it. Easily provable too.

Nobody here buys any of the self published books on here, not even 10 sales

[Anonymous No.24022804]

>>24022760
>right wing literary underground movement
The right wing is already finished. Completely co-opted by ziocons, Elon Musk, and Blumpf. Captive Dreamer utterly buck broke you in less than a year. You aren't dissidents. The future is MAGA Communism.

[Anonymous No.24022813]

>>24022804
Charlottesville was the last gasp of the right and they lost the battle