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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 83 KB, 432x326, noah.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2400609 No.2400609 [Reply] [Original]

According to Kent Hovind (Who is NOT a legitimate source, by the way), there exist across cultures stories strikingly similar and to the myth of Noah's Ark in the Bible. He uses this to defend the argument for the existence of the great flood. Despite Hovind being a total dumbass, this is one of his claims I am willing to believe. The Epic of Gilgamesh and Hindu mythology have similar stories.

This does not necessarily mean the flood existed and holyshitohno the whole Bible is true! D: but I am wondering how this could be explained. How did this story appear across widespread cultures?

Any ideas?

>> No.2400614

Why don't you fucking google it, you idiot?

>> No.2400619

>>2400609

How difficult is it to come up with a plot device involving the flood of the world and the death of everyone?

The post-apocalypse has been a popular genre for thousands of years.

>> No.2400621

Read pic related, OP.

It's really insightful and scientific. The guys who wrote it did extensive research in and around the Black Sea--finding evidence that the entire region used to be fertile land that had flooded over.

>> No.2400635
File: 13 KB, 155x233, NoahFloodBookCover.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2400635

>>2400621
Sorry.

>> No.2400644
File: 75 KB, 400x400, dragons-in-color-400x400.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2400644

Every culture has some description in their mythology of a flying lizard that breathes fire.

HOLY SHIT DOES THIS MEAN DRAGONS ARE REAL?

>> No.2400650

I thought there was already plenty of evidence for the flood. Except it was one of the asian seas that actually didn't exist before that and got this big area underwater. A farmer rescued his family and a pair of sheeps and cows and that was it. It was a big event and so it was documented by different people adding to the mythology.

Of course the biblical flood did not happen. I find it ironic though that from how I read it, it comes as a metaphor for the knowledge of men on survival and procreation. We are just that, a man and a woman, struggling while the past faded, on a ship to fucking no where. And because of that you are in communion with god, and there are rainbows and shit.

>> No.2400661

>>2400650
If you think of the mentality back then, it is entirely conceivable that a huge flood had people thinking that it was a flood that happened "the entire world over."

It wasn't until the 1400's that there was even a concept of the Americas existing. If a small region of people were flooded out of the whole expanse that they knew existed, it would seem very much like the whole world was under water.

>> No.2400662

wasn't it something to do with the ice age?

>> No.2400664
File: 41 KB, 297x404, jung.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2400664

>bitches don't know 'bout my collective unconscious

>> No.2400683

>>2400644
Dragons are said to represent the position of men in between the extremes. It's a crawling snake, but a flying bird, hell and heaven in one creature.

>>2400661
Yeah, exactly. You don't even have to go far as America. What some might happen to know about geography doesn't mean the common people knew. Maps? Who the fucks read maps? It was just that, the hills, the villages, the roads, where people were at. That's what you had to know and what you knew. You knew nothing of far away places unless you met a foreigner you couldn't trust all that much or got your sis raped by some army from distant people.

>>2400662
I don't think so, the ice age was just too old, I mean really really old. I doubt it managed to get into any story. Just think that the ice age helped men get to America and you still don't have that many American myths that could be associated with it.

>>2400664
This nigga knew his shit.

>> No.2400768
File: 10 KB, 356x141, nuts.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2400768

bump

>> No.2400804

Dagon will return

>> No.2400812

Here's how it works:
Actual floods+Poetic license=Flood myth

>> No.2400816

There have always been floods, some very big ones. People just happened to think that the world was a lot smaller.

>> No.2400831

>>2400644

Not every culture. And specifically not several ancient cultures that all had a flood story. (Theory, Noah's family survives flood, they begin to reproduce and over many years create different civilizations of people, a flood story was passed down through all those people.)

>> No.2400838

>>2400816
I just don't buy that. Maybe in the ancient, ancient past, but even then, I don't see it. If anything, they would've thought the world was vastly enormous. I mean, you look into the horizon, and it just goes on and on, and the farther you go, the farther the horizon goes. Now, perhaps if they looked into the distance and saw nothing but water from a massive flood, they might believe the world has been covered; but I don't think this would be because they believed the world was small, but because they believed the flood must be so widespread.
That's just using my own feelings towards how large the world feels when I look out into the distance, but that's not even considering many of the books I've read that refute the notion that our ancestors thought the earth "ended at the mountain range" or whatever. I mean, it's as idiotic as saying Medieval man thought the earth was flat, but all evidence shows that no legitimate scholars believed that.

>> No.2400855
File: 42 KB, 344x344, 2010-10-29.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2400855

>>2400644
There are people who actually believe this, and I am one of them. Simply put, a world with dragons is a world I want to be a part of.

>> No.2400860

>>2400683
>This nigga knew his shit.
No fuck you Jung was an ass. Floods happen all the time, people make up stories about that shit. Nothing strange about it.

>> No.2400871
File: 56 KB, 500x332, 1288276943798.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2400871

>>2400860
Agreed. I think there's some basis to it, but I think, overall, it's too much of a stretch.

>> No.2400874

yes OP every culture has their flood stories

and it's easy to see why

the first civilizations all started around rivers

rivers flood

there, that's it

>> No.2400875

>>2400644
Well, I bet stories about dragons had a real base: dinosaur fossils. That fire-breathing thing is not shared by all cultures.

>> No.2400877

cultural diffusion?

>> No.2400878

>>2400838
You're a logical man, but most people are not like that, bro. And I mean it. Of course, no legitimate scholar believed that, but because they put some thought into it and were able to discern from possible and not so possible ideas about the world.

Consider that it's not as if the common man would put his stakes on a small world or on a flat world, but he simply didn't thought about it. Sun goes up, sun goes down. The days are quiet and there is no one there to question to make you think. People are just used to how things are. If you live in a coast city, you know that to the right of where the sun rises is dirt and city and to the right is just water. You don't ask yourself what is after the water or how long does it go, because when you are surrounded by water, you have no orientation other than the sun you have no choice to make other than go back to the course of the land. People did not travel if they were not meant to travel (with an army or a caravan), you never knew what you were going to get after the next hill and there is no reason to explore, because it's just another hill and another and another and who knows, some strange people who might rape your ass. So you don't go.

The world is small in that sense. When the flood happened, the horizon was taken by water (think of lake Michigan or something) and to them, there was no mindset that could make a map of the destruction. Eventually things work out. Now think of how you interpret this in language, how would one describe if you could not see it clearly and say "a thousand square kilometers filled with water". Think of the feeling of being there and think of the definition for "world" other than the globe. The world was taken by the water indeed.

>>2400860
>>2400871
I don't get your complain.
>Floods happen all the time, people make up stories about that shit. Nothing strange about it.
That's exactly what we are saying here.

>> No.2400881

>>2400878
I fucked up my sentences, damn I can barely read myself. Sorry /lit/.

>> No.2400896

>>2400878
I agree. I think the scholars knew better and the common man didn't care, because it didn't affect him. Even then, though, if he thought about it--because even non-scholarly people think about things like that--I think he thought the world was vast, in the same sense that any common man today will tell you the universe is vast. But vast or not, it doesn't matter, because it doesn't effect his daily life.

>> No.2400902

>>2400874
This.... actually makes a lot of sense.

>> No.2400909

>>2400878
Again, I must say, I very much agree with you. To the average individual in a flood, his world is covered by water. He's going to be talking about this event to his children, his grandchildren, strangers he meets, et cetera. Who hasn't heard someone tell you of the "Great Storm/Flood/Whatever of Whenever"? Eventually the story passes on from generation to generation and gets exaggerated over time.

>> No.2400915

>>2400878
>I don't get your complain.
My complaint wasn't about any of your theories. It was about you saying Jung knew his shit, even though he should be universally despised.

>> No.2400920

>>2400915
I wouldn't go that far. He was a very smart man. I just don't buy his collective unconscious.

>> No.2400923

If you live on a floodplain it can certainly end up looking like then entire world is flooded.

>> No.2400929

>>2400896
Exactly. We need to remember all these tiny details to make a good big picture of it. Just by recalling most people couldn't read back then and that there were no books around, it already sets a weird background for knowledge. Today, wikipedia explain everything to us all. Want to know what quantum mechanics is all about? Check wikipedia. And of course it's a fraction of what is known and studied, but my point is that we get the illusion that knowledge is out there, just a click away. In the 20th century, books were already published in large scales, there were magazines and newspapers and television, it was all over the place. But going back a millenium or two (or idk, five!), life was much different. The documents that we have now on ancient scriptures are vague, hard to translate, misleading, they were stored for centuries in old libraries, there was little effort to know history and so little effort to make history accurate for future generations. So it's weird to think about medieval times and go "hey, how could they think that after the greeks said this?" but in fact, it made very little difference to most of them and very little scholars were able to progress on previous ideas like we do today with preety much anything.

>>2400915
That's just like, your opinion, man. What is the work you hate the most by him?

>>2400920
There is nothing mystical about it. It's all in language anyway. The things we share have similar effects on our unconscious. Some things are only shared among a very specific group, a certain situation has meaning just to you, but all men have penises, everyone has a sun above their heads, everyone feels insecure when alone in the forest and etc. We end up sharing symbols. I don't see the deal of your criticism...

>> No.2400930

>>2400920
He was undoubtedly smart, but indeed this concept is terrible, as is his need to categorise everything. It has had bad influences on many schools and organisations in which people are now classified by 'personality types'.

>> No.2400932

>>2400929
>What is the work you hate the most by him?
Psychological Types

>> No.2400965

>>2400930
>>2400932
Ah, that's cool. I also have my criticism towards that. Though internet tests raised this shit to unlimited proportions. I still think Jung knew his shit, but I think he had very little method on how to bring these ideas to surface, so misconceptions everywhere. But his take on the unconscious mind is something that I think most people ought to hear and learn a lot from him.