/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23746757]

Books on paganism

[Anonymous No.23746771]

>>23746757
The Alpha and the Omega.
It is recommended to read Plato first if you haven't already.

[Anonymous No.23746781]

>>23746757
Der Ring des Nibelungen, the greatest pagan artwork in European history.

[Anonymous No.23746799]

Turville-Petre's Myth And Religion Of The North available on archive

[Anonymous No.23746819]

The Eddas (Both of them)
The Sagas (All of them)
Asatru: A Native European Spirituality
A World Full of Gods

[Anonymous No.23746830]

>>23746757
Try this website https://hellenicfaith.com/julian-hellenism/

[Anonymous No.23746837]

>>23746830
There was a time I was familiar with the one behind that page, as in we spoke regularly. Good chap, way too woke but knowledgeable nontheless.

[Anonymous No.23746846]

>>23746757
The Poetic Edda by Lee M. Hollander

[Anonymous No.23746854]

>>23746757
Viktor Rydberg - Teutonic Mythology
Bulfinchs Greek And Roman Mythology

[Anonymous No.23746855]

>>23746837
That's a surprise. I've never met a man who liked Julian and wasn't a giga chud like me. May God bless you both (and me as well).

[Anonymous No.23746879]

>>23746855
most "pagans" in general are woke retards with no aesthetic sense

[Anonymous No.23746891]

>>23746757
Helenistic Vedas" Reading list
>Theogony
>Works and Days
>The Iliad and The Odyssey
>The Aeneid
>The Metamorphoses
>The Homeric Hymns
>The Orphic Hymns
>Aeschylus' Oresteia
>Sophocles' Oedipus

[Anonymous No.23746895]

>>23746891
Philosophycal reading
>Phaedo
>The Apology of Socrates
>The Republic of Plato
>Metaphysics of Aristotle
>The Nicomachean Ethics
>The Enchiridion of Epictetus
>Meditations of Marcus Aurelius
>Moral Letters to Lucilius by Seneca
>Sallust on the Gods and the World

[Anonymous No.23746899]

>>23746895
Sumero-Babylonian reading list
>Enki and the World Order
>Inana and Enki
>Inana's Descent
>Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the underworld
>Enmerkar and the lord of Aratta
>A man and his god
>The instructions of Shuruppag
>Advice to a Prince
>Enuma Elish

[Anonymous No.23746904]

>>23746899
Egyptian Pharaonic reading list
>The Pyramid Texts
>Book of Coming Forth by Day/Book of Emerging Forth into the Light (The Book of the Dead)
>The Book of Nut
>The Book of the Faiyum
>The Debate Between a Man and his Soul/The Dispute between a man and his Ba
>The Immortality of Writers
>Instruction of Amenemope
>The Instruction of Any
>The Oracle of the Potte
>The Prophecy of Neferti
>Manetho's Aegyptiaca

[Anonymous No.23746906]

>>23746904
Introductory reading list for Plato recommended by Iamblichus
>First Alcibiades
>Gorgias
>Phaedo
>Cratylus
>Theaetetus
>Sophist
>Statesman
>Phaedrus
>Symposium
>Philebus
>Timaeus
>Parmenides

[Anonymous No.23746911]

>>23746906
Brief Greco-Egyptian "Alexandrian wizard" reading list:
>Corpus Hermeticum
>Asclepius
>Kore Kosmou
>Hermetic fragments
>Fragments of Chaldean History - Berossus
>Chaldean Oracles
>Iamblichus' Theurgia
>The Septuagint/LXX
>Sybilline Oracles
>Greek Magical Papyri
>Papyrus of Ani/Egyptian Book of the Dead

[Anonymous No.23746923]

>>23746855
A lot of otherwise sensible people still end up being "woke" for mundane reasons, e.g., they were sheltered, they're in a professional environment where the mask they wear becomes the person they are, or they're in a particularly low-T country where literally all they've ever heard is leftism and since all non-leftists are treated like mental patients or terrorists they never bothered to learn actual social-dialogue. It's similar to how the right has a lot of based retards who are based because they're literally too retarded to gaslight themselves into believing things like transgenderism, race not existing, etc.

[Anonymous No.23746934]

>>23746757
Paganism Explained by Varg Vikingnes

[Anonymous No.23746937]

The Collected Works of Thomas Taylor

Thomas Taylor is basically paganism for people who aren’t retarded

[Anonymous No.23746948]

>>23746937
The swarthy need not be read.

[Anonymous No.23746961]

>>23746934
Varg's conception of Paganism, history, genetics, etcetera is complete and utter dogshit
I have never seen a more blatant retard given fringe respect as some kind of intellectual

[Anonymous No.23746975]

>>23746879
OK Latino.
>>23746923
I am familiar with the archetype, just hard to understand for a Julian appreciator. Maybe via some kind of anti-Christian liberal pipeline? Still weird, since there's plenty of fedora content to fill that market.
>It's similar to how the right has a lot of based retards who are based because they're literally too retarded to gaslight themselves
Many such cases! I even know a few grug tier racist folks who are so dumb they are not even into politics, they just hate other races just because they are different.

[Anonymous No.23746985]

>>23746961
And yet he killed known communist and child-molester Euronymous in self-defense. I respect the man of action's ideas over "philosophers" and "intellectuals."

[Anonymous No.23746995]

>>23746985
You can respect whatever you please, but in a thread about pagan literature you should probably contribute something that has to do with philosophers and intellectuals.

[Anonymous No.23747001]

>>23746995
Vno.

[Anonymous No.23747003]

>>23746985
When did 'child-molester' get tacked on to that?

That (and really the whole early BM scene) was some real white nigger shit. Low impulse control, antisocial, suicidal teenagers killing each other for retarded petty reasons but also producing some decent music.

All Varg's actions for the past 15 odd years since he got out of prison have been getting into increasingly parochial and petty internet arguments while what he says changes and contradicts itself every couple years. Man actively hinders sincere Paganism.

[Anonymous No.23747018]

>>23747003
Odin permitted it.

[Anonymous No.23747021]

Anyone know of any good books on Vedic mythology and religion for an undergraduate level?
Only by mainstream western scholars please, also someone who is familiar with Indo-European mythology and religion in general

[Anonymous No.23747034]

>>23747018
Not sure if there was a placenta on hand to grant permission

[Anonymous No.23747047]

>>23747021
maybe try mircea eliade, can't think of anyone more mainstream in religious studies.

[Anonymous No.23747061]

>>23747047
Nothing he wrote seems to fit what I'm looking for but thanks for trying

[Anonymous No.23747082]

How many pagan texts made it through the spread of christianity in Europe? Is it all based off oral accounts of a consisitent memory of the most well known?

[Anonymous No.23747085]

>>23746757
There is no such thing as paganism, pagan is an insult created by jews which is basically the equivalent of calling someone backwards, redneck, or a hick. The progressive urbanite jews of the time used this insult on the "backwards" people who still worshipped the old gods, these people lived rurally for the most part. Pagan then became an insult for anything that's not abrahamic, in the same way sjws call everyone that's not an sjw a nazi. Of course, nazi is similar in that respect in that it's meant to insult national socialists, but of course now it's just used to insult anyone that's not part of the in-group. This is to say, and to reiterate, there is no such thing as paganism, both animism and platonism are pagan, but they are vastly different.

[Anonymous No.23747112]

>>23747082
With Old Norse the only thing we can be confident about is eddic poetry and skaldic poetry
Skaldic poetry is very complicated and contrived and so people theorise that the poems we have are often very old because the poetry form itself makes it resistant to changes over time
We have varying degrees of archaic language in both forms of poetry which make scholars think that they're genuinely old but they might not be old enough
That said I don't think any philologist is going to confidently state that either of them are free of Christian influence
Egils poetry, if the general outlines of his life are true, could very well be pagan poetry since he died before Christianity spread and I don't think his ancestors would necessarily want to invent that detail if they could avoid it
You can find them in Egils saga, for example Sonatorrek
As for the sagas themselves, we know that saga authors weren't just simply mindless copiers of tradition and that they innovated a lot
For example there's a theory that a lot of saga narratives are based on trying to explain a certain skaldic poem that they had, to fit the events into the narrative of someone's life by inventing details so I don't think you should trust them

[Anonymous No.23747137]

>>23746985
>And yet he killed known communist and child-molester Euronymous in self-defense.

Funny way to spell “he killed his secret boyfriend though fear that he was going to out them both.” Same with Faust and the guy in the woods. You know how gays stick together? This scene was no fucking different.

Anyway. >>23746757
If you fancy something fictional but very well researched, Way of the Wyrd by Brian Bates is a great read. Similar central conceit to The Eaters of the Dead/The 13th Warrior but grounded in history. Good read.

[Anonymous No.23747184]

>>23746975
>OK Latino.

Don't even reply to me unless you're 100% NW European faggot

[Anonymous No.23747198]

>>23747184
OK Latino.

[Anonymous No.23747253]

>>23746923
>>23746975
Yeah, the guy is from Canada so that would explain the woke leanings, used to be in charge of the r/HellenicPolytheism discord server(this was before r/Hellenism even existed).
I can't remember if he was particularly anti-Christian in a liberal sense, if anything he often chastised people who were bringing their anti-Christian bagage to Hellenism because it's extremely counter productive.
He was rather strange politically, he was ultra woke when it came to gay, transexuals, and migrants, but sometimes he would do things like express pro-monarchist sentiments or be staunchly against secularism.
He always told people he belived in the Gods since childhood, particularly he would pray to Zeus. Whether that is true or not I can't say for sure.
He was doing his best, eventually he gave up on administering the discord server because it was a massive hassle and a waste of time, the new people who came afterwards were not as good. The site he created is great for beginners, though, I wonder what he is up to today.

[Anonymous No.23747287]

>>23747253
>He was rather strange politically, he was ultra woke when it came to gay, transexuals, and migrants, but sometimes he would do things like express pro-monarchist sentiments or be staunchly against secularism.
Seems to have at least some good instincts but maybe a victim of his society. I was born similar, but grew up in a working class nationalist millieu. Maybe that's what made the difference.
Wish him the best. I found his website fairly useful myself.

[Anonymous No.23747438]

>>23746934
I was reading this and it went back and forth between really basic paleo anthropology and wild conjecture about what the Germanics were practicing in antiquity. May I recommend picrel as a good primer however?

[Anonymous No.23747458]

>>23746830
>>23746837
>>23746855
Reminder that Julian the Apostate was so ass-blasted by Christ's prophecy of the destruction of the temple coming true that he tried to have the jews rebuild their temple but this ended in disaster because of a fire and an earthquake. The jews still call him Julian the Good Goy though.

[Anonymous No.23747659]

>>23747082
Nearly everything got destroyed. The entire history of Europe is compromised and based on jewish nonsense. There was not only an effort to ignore pagan texts, but they actually made active efforts to destroy them. If you want to read pure uncucked religion or mythology, you need to read texts from before 400/500 AD. That was when the church did their genocide campaign.

[Anonymous No.23747801]

>>23747458
That prophecy was made up after the temple was destroyed

[Anonymous No.23747844]

>>23747801
False plus he was butthurt either way. Funny that you're trying to claim that the prophecy was fake now that the temple won't be rebuilt when Julian never doubted the prophecy in his time. Are you a "nothing ever happens" skeptic or a coping pagan?

[Anonymous No.23747893]

>>23746757
Friendly reminder that most of western esotericism is the history of the survival of Paganism.
>>23746879
You're a shameless liar.

[Anonymous No.23747896]

>>23747844
Dumb apologist.

[Anonymous No.23747899]

>>23747896
> Apologist
Stop using words you don't understand the meaning of.

[Anonymous No.23747936]

>>23747899
You're projecting, you're dishonest like all apologists. There is a reason why academia doesn't take your ideas seriously.

[Anonymous No.23747994]

>>23747198
"Ey homes, I think this guy is like, one of us or something"

[Anonymous No.23748002]

>>23747893
>You're a shameless liar.

Almost every pagan organization in this country is institutionally woke. The people are all fat. Please point me to literally ANY pagan organization that has hot women in it

[Anonymous No.23748111]

>>23747936
And they take Pagans seriously? lol.

[Anonymous No.23748144]

>>23746879
Sociologists of neopaganism usually say that the woke kind of neopaganism, like wicca and shit is mostly predominant in the US while the chuddy, ethnocentric kind of neopaganism is more of a european thing.

[Anonymous No.23748149]

>>23748002
One of the main issues with Paganism is precisely organization. Every sincere organization gets flooded with undesirables and unserious people. Look at the AFA, some good people and some good stuff going on there but 1/3 of their members that actually pull up to their events are fat weirdos which makes for terrible optics.

I blame the fact that organizations such as the SPLC are going to classify any Pagan organization that doesn't celebrate homosexuality and diversity as being a neo-nazi hate group, thus no normal or professional person is going to want to associate with them. National guard members have been discharged for associating with the AFA. Funny how a Jews-only synagogue or an Indian-only Hindu temple doesn't raise an eyebrow but once something is labelled 'Whites-only' it's open season.

The other issue is that an overuse of Norse terminology and imagery results in terrible aesthetics and the feeling of being a viking LARP faire instead of a sincere religious movement. Language and imagery should be adapted to plain, comprehensible English and aesthetics rooted in the actual tangible culture.

That said, there's plenty of fit, intelligent, well-read Pagans out there, they just generally stick to their own

[Anonymous No.23748156]

>>23748144
Leftist 'Pagans' are such a farce, I don't understand why they even want to appropriate something on an aesthetic level that any engagement with the primary sources would reveal to be completely antithetical to their beliefs. The Lay of Rig describes the creation of an explicitly racial caste system, the Pagan Roman law codes enshrined eugenics, these traditions derive from the people that effectively invented 'Patriarchy,' etcetera.

[Anonymous No.23748166]

>>23748156
Well actually, that was from the influence of Christianity which totally destroyed Norse society and culture
Everything I don't like = Christian

[Anonymous No.23748194]

>>23746855
You really think you’re a gigachud because you like Julian when in reality you’re a stereotypical modernist new ager. /lit/ has declined so much it’s not even funny. Newfag sentiments of low IQ /pol/ posters from a decade ago that would’ve gotten chased off of /lit/ for lack of basic information and education are mainstream on /lit/ now apparently. Unreal.

[Anonymous No.23748199]

>>23747082
Basically nothing and no, it didn’t get destroyed. It never got written down in the first place. Nobody actually knows if Snorri’s account, for example, is accurately based on oral tradition or if it’s completely made up or if it’s some unknown combination. Archaeological evidence gives context clues but, frankly, there’s problems with that as well. So in short, we have little because they left little and as a result we don’t know much at all with certainty, but then again, we know very little about the Middle Ages and we have quite a lot from the Middle Ages as a whole so it probably wouldn’t matter if they did leave much.

[Anonymous No.23748203]

>>23747659
You’re a pseud. You’ve clearly never researched this topic at all, you don’t read, and you don’t belong on this board. Go back to /pol/.

[Anonymous No.23748208]

>>23748144
No, they don’t usually say that lmao.


Dude this board is becoming unusable because of you pseuds. Every fucking board but especially /lit/ is just filled with barely literate zoomers from /pol/ now.

This fucking board used to have PhDs and tenured academics on it ffs. Now it’s retarded 20 year old chuds that get their facts from YouTubers. What the fuck, man.

[Anonymous No.23748211]

>>23748156
I mean even today the two main kinds of westerners who actively reject christianity are people who think it isn't woke enough and people who think it's sick, gay and jewish. Both reject it for reasons outside of matters of faith and creed.

[Anonymous No.23748220]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t--E1DtWBuA

[Anonymous No.23748229]

>>23748208
It still has PhDs but these retards infiltrated every part of society. Academia is in a worse state than /pol/.
/pol/ had academics and monks. Even the stormfags sometimes had something not retarded to say but they were a clearly distinct group from most of /pol/ until everyone including you was lobotomized by the latest batch of CIA brainwashing.

[Anonymous No.23748232]

>>23748211
Both reject it for reasons derived entirely from pop media which is controlled by the most evil forces to ever exist.

[Anonymous No.23748234]

>>23748229
> including you
Nice projection you fraud

[Anonymous No.23748395]

>>23748234
Absolutely braindead. One of the worst retards by far.

[Anonymous No.23748449]

>>23748395
> no u

[Anonymous No.23748684]

>>23748199
>Nobody actually knows if Snorri’s account, for example, is accurately based on oral tradition or if it’s completely made up or if it’s some unknown combination.
what in the fuck are you talking about, Snorri directly cites to authentic heathen poetry in his works. He is simply extrapolating and speculating based on an original norse oral tradition. He comes to wrong conclusions and makes mistakes quite frequently, because he has no underlying familiarity with the subject matter, but the actual stuff he's drawing from is almost inarguably authentic.

[Anonymous No.23748698]

>>23746757
The Hutt is very well researched even if it’s Anglocentric.

>>23746781
This is 10/10

>>23746937
Kino

Also check out the Eddas and the Havamal. I liked Jackson Crawford’s versions. Can’t testify for the other books in this thread because I’ve not read them but will be adding them to my reading list. The rest of this thread is culture war bullshit. Trust the modern American to turn an open faith into organised post-Christian /pol/brained tribal/cultism.

>>23748149
>the AFA
Shambolic. Look at their YouTube channel. The guy running the show these days is a televangelist and has gathered a band of literal fedora wearing redditors and hag women to play dress-up in their “church”, and somehow manage to make the whole thing look like a Christian sect. Pure larp, right down to the totally-a-coincidence ‘Reich’ style fonts, the hung flags and the little Mjolnir pendants. Once again I am rendered astounded by how anyone can look at these people and think “Yes, this is exactly who I want to be affiliated with”. Same sentiments extend to Varg and r/paganism. The whole thing is a shitshow and should only be practised alone or with small familiar groups.

[Anonymous No.23748712]

>>23748203
Kek, seethe more. I'm right about literally everything.

[Anonymous No.23748793]

>>23746757
pagans are in hell

[Anonymous No.23748801]

>>23748793
>Odin isn't real, pagans are in he- aaaAAAAHHHHH NITHHOGGR STOP GNAWING ON MY CORPSE PLEASE AAAAAA THE AGONY

[Anonymous No.23748942]

>>23748684
No he doesn’t. You have no clue what you’re talking about. Go ahead and post the citations. You can’t do it because they don’t exist.

And to be clear, saying “oh this is what it said in so and so oral poem from a hundred years ago” is not a citation or a source.

[Anonymous No.23748988]

>>23748942
>Thus is it said in the Vala's Prophecy:
>It was Time's morning,
>When there nothing was;
>Nor sand, nor sea,
>Nor cooling billows.
>Earth there was not,
>Nor heaven above.
>The Ginungagap was,
>But grass nowhere.

>Thus it is said in the Vala's Prophecy:
>Surt from the south fares
>With blazing flames;
>From the sword shines
>The sun of the war−god.
>Rocks dash together
>And witches collapse,
>Men go the way to Hel
>And the heavens are cleft.

I found two direct quotes from voluspa with clear attribution within literal seconds of opening gylfaginning
you are a fucking retard

[Anonymous No.23749246]

>>23748988
That’s neither a citation nor a quote you buffoon. That is just Snorri saying “this is what the old poems said”. Furthermore, the voluspa was written in the late 13th century, centuries after Iceland had been fully Christianized. It is not an original source.

[Anonymous No.23749280]

>>23746771
Plato is a crypto-semite and anti-aryan.

[Anonymous No.23749448]

>>23749246
>nor a quote
it is a direct quote of voluspa stanza 3, he even directly identifies it as being from voluspa
>the voluspa was written in the late 13th century
it was recorded then. It was composed earlier as part of the norse oral tradition
>centuries after Iceland had been fully Christianized
>fully
they weren't fully christianized or else the codex regius wouldn't even exist in the first place
>It is not an original source.
Voluspa is independently attested by 3 different manuscripts, and details from it are attested in various other norse sources, such as vafthruthnismal, lokasenna, and extra-eddaic materials like eiriksmal.

[Anonymous No.23749460]

>>23749280
How?

[Anonymous No.23749588]

>>23749280
/pol/ brain-rot in overdrive

[Anonymous No.23750205]

>>23749280
>Plato is a crypto-semite
How? Is there any evidence that Paganism was a ethno-religion

[Anonymous No.23750275]

>>23748698
>Shambolic. Look at their YouTube channel. The guy running the show these days is a televangelist and has gathered a band of literal fedora wearing redditors and hag women to play dress-up in their “church”, and somehow manage to make the whole thing look like a Christian sect. Pure larp, right down to the totally-a-coincidence ‘Reich’ style fonts, the hung flags and the little Mjolnir pendants. Once again I am rendered astounded by how anyone can look at these people and think “Yes, this is exactly who I want to be affiliated with”. Same sentiments extend to Varg and r/paganism. The whole thing is a shitshow and should only be practised alone or with small familiar groups.

This is what I mean. I looked into the Asatru group near where I live and its a bunch of fat leftists dressed like they're in the Vikings TV show. Zero attractive women. Point me to a religion that can survive without attracting hot women to it? What is even the point of a cult otherwise? Have you seen Mormon women, for instance?

[Anonymous No.23750650]

>>23746757
Why would anyone want to be a pagan witht he ammount of discontinuity between ancient and modern Pagans?

[Anonymous No.23750656]

>>23749280
1000% pure bullshit.
>>23750205
Paganism was de facto ethnoreligion but it's absurd and insane to say that Plato was somehow subverting that. Plato himself participated in the familial and city cults of his ethnic group.

[Anonymous No.23750708]

>>23750275
>Point me to a religion that can survive without attracting hot women to it?
Tbdesu, you’re conflating pagan ‘religion’ and organised religions. That’s your problem. The ones that are seeking social groups obviously have physical or mental deformations that have hindered them and pushed them to seek community. There is a marked difference between those able to study alone and those who need a group. Real simple social science.

I once foolishly joined a discord server on a recommendation only to discover it was being led by Ocean Keltoi and Wulff the Red, and it was ultimately a bunch of losers that had built parasocial relationships with smug YouTube grifters. Real circlejerk shit about why their opinions on practices that have little to no history are the “right” ones. Insufferable. These people are using faith as a social club because they have nothing else.

I have been lucky enough to bone 1 (one) hot pagan, and even she was a Viking larpette and was, no surprises, insane. I have also met quite a few others. They didn’t know each other and were all solo practitioners that were not part of any groups aside from online discussion on various practices. They are out there, but due to paganism/heathenry being so fragmented by nature, there is no distinct rule or structure on appearances, conduct and so on, rendering it all a bit messy. It’s certainly not the belief system for you if you’re in it for the pussy.

Mormonism though? They could convert me for the right set of legs.

[Anonymous No.23750713]

>>23748194
You have it backwards. I am not a gigachud because I like Julian. I like Julian because I am a gigachud. I have never met anyone who likes Julian without being a gigachud. Being a gigachud, it seems to me, is a prerequisite to liking Julian.

[Anonymous No.23750718]

>>23746757
https://
discord
.gg/r4R2PBxD

[Anonymous No.23751251]

>>23750713
I like Julian and don't hate black people or Jews

[Anonymous No.23751266]

>>23746879
There's actually a growing vocal leftist faggot minority that's complaining about the ethnocentrism and "racism" of various pagan communities, both in the US and in Europe.

>>23748211
>both reject it for reasons outside of matters of faith and creed
Rejecting it for being sick and jewish is also rejecting it for matters within faith and creed, since judaism is alien to European philosophy.

[Anonymous No.23751306]

>>23746757
>Christians as the Romans Saw Them by Wilken
>Christianity and Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth Centuries by Macmullen
Are two interesting books I've read on Paganism of Late Antiquity.

[Anonymous No.23751317]

>>23746757
What is even the Pagan argument against trannies?

[Anonymous No.23751318]

>>23746757
the ancient city - numa denis fustel de coulanges

[Anonymous No.23751415]

>>23751317
I don't think there are any if by pagan we mean followers of pagan religions and not just transporting people from Ancient or Medieval times to the modern day

[Anonymous No.23752555]

>>23751317
exactly the same as the christian argument against trannies, considering specifically the norse and christian creation myth w/r/t humans is so similar. It perverts the natural order imposed by Odin. It is an attempt to play god with things beyond our control and understanding, and will necessarily result in disaster because we are imperfect and lack supreme control over things.

[Anonymous No.23753935]

>>23746757
Mythology of Aryan Nations - George Cox
Oriental Religions in Roman Paganism - Franz Cumont

[Anonymous No.23753948]

>lists and lists of books
>read: 2
you know it's true.

[Anonymous No.23754039]

>>23751318

best recommendation in the entire thread