Why is counter-initiation bad?

[Anonymous No.23545669]

And if it's bad, then why does it still happen? You'd think that after eons of spiritual practice, people would learn their lesson, like a toddler learning not to touch a hot stove. Where's the appeal of counter-initiation?

[Anonymous No.23545711]

Why don’t you tell us what counter-initiation is first, you raving catatonic schizo?

[Anonymous No.23545725]

>>23545669
People do not "learn their lesson" by sheer passage of time. If anything it is evident that History is cyclic and that progression towards a state of tantamount Good is a mere hegelian illusion. The whole point of the Kali-Yuga is that times keep getting worse as you progress along the cycle. Partly due to counter-tradition, Mankind is straying further and further from the Truth of the primordial tradition, and this descent is irreversible up until the eschatological telos, the Apocalypse (which means revelation in ancient greek), upon which the contents of the Truth are revealed again and the cycle starts anew, signaling the dawn of a Golden age.

Everything in each cycle is necessary so to speak. Counter-tradition itself and the cosmic struggles against are required for the cycle to progress through its different ineluctable stages and for the wheel of Dharma to perpetuate its echoes through time and space

[Anonymous No.23545740]

>>23545725
That's a good observation. But it provokes a better explanation of why progress doesn't occur. Wouldn't the allure of initiation be tied into to a possibility of progress? Or is there always a duality of stakes that appeals to the innate spiritual character of the person when they make the choice between initiation and counter-initiation?

[Anonymous No.23545760]

>it's le bad because I said so, okay, sweetie
here's your answer to any question you may encounter when reading these fucking retarded clowns

[Anonymous No.23545945]

>>23545669
>>23545725

These quotes sum up the matter quite well:

The Occult and Subversive Movements: Tradition and Counter-Tradition in the Struggle for World Power

>“The hatred of established religion often assumed the form of outright Satan and Lucifer adulation, especially during the 19th century, when these figures were given heroic proportions as the archetypes of rebellion against tyranny. Such Luciferic rebellion was established within certain occult degrees of initiation, and the ‘Light-Bringer’ also became a god of the ‘Enlightenment’ and of ‘Rationalism,’ supposedly against superstition. Traditionalists such as René Guénon recognised as the façade of Anti-Tradition working for the goals of Counter-Tradition in the name of ‘science’ but for the ultimate purpose of establishing something quite different.

>“The aim of these ‘Black Adepts’ of what Crowley called the ‘Black School of Magick’ and what Guénon called the Counter-Tradition, is to enchain humanity to the dead weight of matter; hence the use of materialistic ideologies, epitomised by the dialectical materialism. Such theories postulate that man is nothing other than ‘matter in motion’. Hence, the ‘Black School of Magick’ by such means seeks to detach humanity from its nexus with the Divine.

>“This goal of bounding humanity to the tyranny of matter—and one does not have to be a Christian or Muslim to call it ‘satanic’—is the reason why ostensibly mystical and esoteric bodies have promoted rationalistic and materialistic doctrines.

And perhaps the most important quote (Guénon also explores this in Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion):

>“This evolving God, or what the Theosophists and New Agers call the ‘Christ within’ humanity that is the spark of evolution is ‘satanic’ because it ‘openly submits the Divinity to becoming.’ What Guénon identified as ‘spiritist evolutionism,’ and consequently an inversion of Tradition, is the same as the ‘Perfectibilist’ doctrines of Illuminism, Masonry, Theosophy and the ‘New Age,’ which preach the ‘perfectibility of man’ in common with the atheistic creeds of socialism.

The aim of course is the eschatology and teleology of the Counter-Tradition: The world is now tending toward its consummation in the celebrated Novus Ordo Mundi or “New Order of the World,” anticipated even by the “conspiracy theorists” and that predicted global Empire of the 'Solar Logos' (or Antichrist) characterized by the Global Citizens of the 'Universal Brotherhood':
>Erecting the Novus Ordo Seclorum is shown by the regard [Theosophist] Alice Bailey had for the USA which she said, ‘expresses the will-to-love…It is [here]…that people are most sensitive to the influence of the Hierarchy.’ Hence, it is through the power of the USA that the world state is to be achieved

The Externalisation Of The Hierarchy of the Awliya es-Shaytan from the Perennialist perspective.

[Anonymous No.23547178]

>>23545945
Why would anybody choose counter-initiation? Is it because they're ignorant?

[Anonymous No.23547884]

From the perspective of counter-tradition, "initiation" is counter-initiation. It's all about perspective.

[Anonymous No.23548303]

>>23545669
Why the long face?

[Anonymous No.23548507]

>>23545760
>>23545711
Only good posts ITT

[Anonymous No.23549222]

>>23548303
counter-initiation exists :(

[Anonymous No.23549302]

>>23545669
As one of the major counter-initiation posters its time I came out of the closet...

The truth is counter-initiation doesn't matter, it's like asking "does the sky exist?" Yes it exists, does the sun exist? Yes it exists, we accept these things, to crazy schizos exist? Yes they exist... do paedophile and rapists exist? Yes they exist... uh okay so uh yes maybe counter-initiation exists, but what does that change? It exists yes but just like the sky, its almost as if it doesn't exist for me, when we see the sky then we look at it, in other words counter-initiation is largely the result of fantasy when you do not just take it at the basic level as described by guenon, forget the mentally pictured lycanthropes, typhon-set, vestiges of dead civilizations, psychic residues, it exist maybe, but like the sky exists do you spend your nights and days obsessed about the sky, do you intentionally manafacture the sky in your mind before you see it? Theorising about things is one thing or acknowledging the evil in ourselves is one thing, but obsessing about it is another! Do not get fooled by the long rants of counter-initiation I have posted, into taking it for something it is not - imagining something which is not.

It's less a question of the counter initiation as a distinct thing, and more a question of the "Unknown"

[Anonymous No.23549333]

>>23549302
So I leave you with some these 3 verses from an advaita work by sureshvara:

>Since every object is unknown (ajñāta) before the idea of it first arises in our minds, and since (even as unknown) it exists by the power of the one reality (sat) it is that reality which is (ultimately) the thing that is unknown.

>It has been said in the previous verse, "It is that reality which is the thing that is unknown." As if expecting the question What is the nature of that unknown reality?"

>The Self, which is the reality manifesting itself in both knower and instrument of cognition (pramāņa) at the time when an empirical cognition is being striven
for, and which is revealed by its own power-that is the thing which is unknown.


>Professor Hacker explains: A thing is unknown and yet it exists. What is unknown in a thing is, precisely, its existence. But in so far as a thing exists it is identical with existence-in-itself, since the existent is only one and never falls into differentiation. It is therefore not exactly the individual object which is unknown in ignorance, but universal Being itself. Ignorance hides the primaeval principle of knowing and being (cp. introductory prose commentary to verse III.113 below). Being-and-knowledge in itself, however, is the Self... Thus the combating of the thesis that ignorance is a mere negation of knowledge leads over into an answer to the question as to what is the object of nescience. Sureśvara does not explicitly state the logical conclusion of this line of thought, and we do not yet know whether the conclusion had already been drawn in his day. But later-and already by Sureśvara's commentator Jhãnottama-it was drawn and expressed by the term "bhãva-rūpa", which says that ignorance is not a negation but something positively existent. Texte, p. 59 f. Light is thrown on Sureśvara's meaning here by verses II.178-179 of his Taittiriya Vārttika. He says there that ignorance properly-so-called has no other form or nature (rūpa) than non-comprehension of the Self. The whole of the not-self, however, manifests as a result of it, and for this reason is itself loosely called ignorance (avidyā). It is intelligible that ignorance may be a cause in this sense since it is only formally negative, as we speak of an enemy as a not-friend. On the last point, cp. Vyāsa's Commentary to Patañjali's Yoga Sūtra II.5.

And here is the English translation commentary by Vyāsa mentioned:

https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/yoga-sutras-with-commentaries/d/doc1216656.html


>>23549222
:O
>>23545945
I think you should chill out with sharing your prophecies to the people here, people are obviously being affected by the conspiratorialness of it. I have been floating around the more zoomer "traditionalist" influenced places of the internet, and I'm noticing a ramping up in people mentioning counter-initiation like schizos turning it into some sort of moralism or making it like conspiracy, I think I'll stop.

[Anonymous No.23549379]

>>23545711
This should be serviceable enough, if we want to be very laconic it could just be cut at the very first sentence, whilst it is more expedient to not beat around the bush, one must see to it that he investigates what the ego is, what his ego is, that can only be done with inner work. The quotes are from the blurb of Charles uptons book vectors of counter-initiation:

>The Counter-Initiation is the ego's idea of spirituality. It appears in the Old Testament as the Serpent in the garden, Cain's murder of Abel, the "sons of God who looked upon the daughters of men and found them fair," the Tower of Babel, the degeneration of Sodom, and the magicians of Pharaoh whom Moses defeated. In the New Testament it is personified by Judas, and in the Qur'an by the figure of as-Samiri, who forged the Golden Calf, and the angels Harut and Marut—testers of man by God's design—who taught magic to the human race in Babylon. For both traditions, it is destined to culminate in Antichrist. This book brings together two schools of the Traditionalists or Perennialists (writers on comparative religion and traditional metaphysics) and the conspiracy theorists who are investigating the origin, nature, and plans of the New World Order. The NWO researchers can throw a penetrating light on the social and political dangers presently threatening the Perennialists, while the Perennialists can provide these researchers with a deeper and wider spiritual context for their vision of human evil. In Guénon's time the Counter-Initiation appeared in terms of this or that secret society operating in the shadowy underworld of European occultism; it has now come up into the open, and moved inexorably toward the centers of global power. In the words of American Eastern Orthodox priest Seraphim Rose, "in our time Satan has walked naked into human history."

And how it forms in basic text:
>In the The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times he (Guénon) classed the worst of these spiritualities (referring to all the different world spiritualities Guénon reviewed) as examples of the Counter-Initiation. Anti-Tradition-secularism and materialism-opposes religion; Counter-Tradition inverts it; and the esoteric essence of Counter-Tradition is the Counter-Initiation. The author expands on this concept, recognizing the action of the Counter-Initiation in such areas as the politicizing of the interfaith movement, the anti-human tendencies in the environmental movement, the growing interest in magic and sorcery, the involvement of the intelligence communities in the fields of UFO investigation and psychedelic research, the history of Templarism and Freemasonry, and the de-Islamicization of the famous Sufi poet, Jalaluddin Rumi.


I wouldn't get too carried away with the symbolism, if you don't feel like it

[Anonymous No.23549428]

>>23549302
Also to add to anyone here who is worried about this and thinks they need to combat something
>>23549222
:(

Don't get distracted, if you're feeling oppressed or something, don't just shift the blame on the counter-initiation you read about, do what you can develop a spiritual practice of course noone should have to tell you this, it's what you should as a human. Just because there is counter-initiation or not, it shouldn't change anything, whether it exists or not shouldn't in the least be bothering you. Don't fall for the long ranting stuff, alot of it is just speculative junk mental garbage, know yourself find your own answers (but of course there's really no need to be anti-hierarchic and schizoid about it) if conditions make it so a tradition is inaccessible, don't worry continue to do what you can. Don't fall into the schizo conspiracy-paranoia, if you don't get what this counter-initiation is just yet then it really doesn't matter. No saints or sages of the traditions became experts in "counter-initiation" research before attaining the peaks of human perfection and beyond. The counter-initiation drivel is just a curiosity of sorts, nothing more, what matters is rectifying your own situation better to not buy this "soo sinister" goosebumps style of le counter-initiation writing (of course thats if you are really reading it like that and being taken along for the ride) guenon was not a fiction writer, but wrote very terse bare non-fiction.


>>23547178
Yes! That's all it is

[Anonymous No.23549457]

>>23549302
>>23549333
>>23549379
if counter-initiation doesnt matter then initiation doesnt matter either. you claim to be trying to dispel interest in the topic but your actions say otherwise.

[Anonymous No.23549482]

>>23549379
I don’t think I even agree with what your idea of initiation is, so a counter initiation will seem even more wrong headed because of that.
Initiation is from a word meaning to induct in the sense of being made possession of something.
>inb4 etymology i.e. the history of the meaning of a word doesn’t matter
It does matter because that tells us what the very earliest thinkers who conceived of initiation had in mind when they were doing so.
Presumably they meant that initiation puts one in possession of the gods, and all your examples suggest being put in possession of Satan, so this is, as far as I’m concerned, still an initiation, you’re just being put into the possession of Satan.
>The Counter-Initiation is the ego's idea of spirituality.
What makes it “counter”? The ego? What’s it countering? The soul? The spirit? For that matter why is everything the ego does “counter” anyway? I’ll tell you why I think you and Guenon think that. Because the ego is something associated with Satan. Satan is anti-god, and anti-god is anti-initiation, therefore the ego is counter-initiation. But why should this be outside of the positing of an anti-god like Satan?
Does this counter-initiation make sense in the context of any of the eastern religions, like Hinduism, which is one of Guenon’s favorite examples of initiation? Where is the “counter”-initiation here? Kali? I don’t think the Hindus think Kali is an anti-god. For these reasons, and more, I think Traditionalism makes no sense outside of an assumed Christian mythology and eschatology.
Why should this cheapen the spiritual nature of the counter-initiation just because it’s a “counter”-initiation? Satan would possesses a spirituality of his own, of the material, one I wouldn’t like, but one nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.23549660]

>>23549457
>counter-initiation doesnt matter then initiation doesnt matter either
You are clearly not understanding the meaning of the post
Counter initiation doesn't matter anymore than anything else, did I say it didn't exist, did I deny it? No. Initiation likewise doesn't matter anymore than anything else, did I say it didn't exist, did I deny it?
If you think you have to hope for one and fear the other, you're missing the point and initiation is not in question anyway.
>What makes it “counter”? The ego? What’s it countering? The soul? The spirit? For that matter why is everything the ego does “counter” anyway?
You shouldn't misunderstand there is not some sort of dualistic scheme where counter-initiation really stands in opposition to initiation, the same is true of the malefic and the benefic the two terms are not symmetrical at all.

I'll go ahead and tell you why counter-initiation is "counter" because it's limited to the inversion of traditional forms, the Promethean is limited by his "rebellion," the antinomian is bound by nomos regardless, the counter-initiation doesnt actually contradict or oppose initiation except illusorily. I just tried to make it clear for people that what we think the counter-initiation is, or what we think it is not, how much of that is on the level of fantasy? How much of that is on the side of at least empirical reality? The question "does the counter initiation" exist, is one thing, but does it exist and does it mean anything well that's besides the point, as I said the sky exists, grass exists, cats exist etc.
>Presumably they meant that initiation puts one in possession of the gods, and all your examples suggest being put in possession of Satan, so this is, as far as I’m concerned, still an initiation, you’re just being put into the possession of Satan.
Man this not how it works at all, please at least study the texts you are forming opinions on. Initiation in the true sense refers something like a second birth, or dying before dying and "rebirth" into a state of consciousness or awareness of being, please don't confuse this for possessing gods or demons

The point is the counter-initiate relies on inverting traditional forms why does this happen? Because of relativism and secular anti-tradition transitioning into counter-tradition which becomes materialism (don't misunderstand this as just a basic view of things, or some philosophical ism, all that's meant is just pure vice, living for greed, plunder, drugs etc.) And followed by this it co-opts the esoteric essence even of the tradition but in an inverted way to serve its own agenda which should be viewed as "materialism."

[Anonymous No.23549680]

>>23549660
>what makes it counter
All that makes it counter is it inverts traditional forms only to serve the underlying materialism, it can't be divorced from that and remember the opposition it had to initiation is purely illusory.
>Does this counter-initiation make sense in the context of any of the eastern religions, like Hinduism, which is one of Guenon’s favorite examples of initiation?
Yes especially today it does make sense, please understand counter-initiation is intrinsically linked to the "materialistic" universalism which has only intensified in the modern era, however the development of the modern era must be looked at as being birthed through the subtle efforts of counter-initiation. Counter-initiation fundamentally is inseparable from egotism/materialism and it can be traced back to the ancient traditions about titans, nephilim or even ashuras (again please don't think I'm talking about some nuanced material monism or just how people see the world who don't read philosophy)
>Satan would possesses a spirituality of his own, of the material
Yes and this would precisely be counter-initiation but we have to understand that it not actually a genuine spirituality which either stands on its own, or which accomplishes anything or is actually opposed dualistically to initiation
> I don’t think the Hindus think Kali is an anti-god. For these reasons, and more, I think Traditionalism makes no sense outside of an assumed Christian mythology and eschatology.
Refer back to Ashuras, Titans, Nephilim, etc. Please understand mere outwards appearance which looks evil or something is not whats being referred to, but brute vice-ridden modern hylic life, which stamps down his fellow man etc. Please don't involve deities like Kali, it makes no sense if you were to know what is even meant by counter initiation.

Anyway I appreciate the reply

[Anonymous No.23549714]

>>23549482
>What makes it “counter”? The ego? What’s it countering? The soul? The spirit?
Also I want to emphasise on top of my other replies, no it is not countering the Spirit, there is no real point talking about this on a such a level. Understand for one that we are obviously not even talking about some sort of outwardly antinomian "ego-transcending" spirituality (so that just blocks out all the talk of Kali and all that) or even types of occultism which would only be pseudo-initiatory, but a spirituality of crude materialism I think part of the problem is even using "spirituality" to describe it, it is not aiming to "transcend the ego" at all

[Anonymous No.23549721]

>>23549660
Meant to also reply to >>23549482

[Anonymous No.23549730]

>>23545669
>>23548303

[Anonymous No.23549778]

Why, is that guenon's brother HP Lovecraft? Yes yes I believe it is.

[Anonymous No.23549793]

>>23549482
You're being entirely semantic and you're using the term initiation in an entirely different sense that, if you understood the original significance, would answer your question immediately. Initiation is specifically the transference of and coming into contact with a HIGHER, suprahuman spiritual power, a sattvic orientation toward higher states. Exposing yourself to LOWER, infrahuman forces cannot be an initiation in any way except as a mockery and parody of the genuine thing. Every symbol has both a benefic and malefic aspect, in one sense counter-initiation is the reversal of these two aspects, taking the higher for the lower and the lower for the higher. It is "counter" to the upward tendency. To say there is no counter-initiation is to deny that infrahuman states and lower forces exist at all, which no tradition would ever agree with.

Are you trying to circumspectly say that you think there's no possible opposition to the metaphysical, utterly transcendent, infinite, etc. God and thus there cannot be anything "counter" to it? You're right in one sense, but due to being manifested beings, we do not have the privilege of this metaphysical point of view except in theory short of transcending manifestation. Thus, we're subjected to seeming oppositions and dualities, one of which is the opposition between higher and lower possibilities, closer to or further away from the spiritual. In a reductive sense, the counter-initiation is that which plunges us further and further away from the spiritual.

[Anonymous No.23549850]

>>23549482
By the way I did not give an exhaustive account of what initiation is, which I will not do so unless you are telepathic of course you cannot be sure, however I did put a brief statement about what is referred to as "the second birth," I would also refer you to guenons writings which go much further to explain things, for example in what way we can talk about an "initiatic hierarchy," or different attainment of different Initiates, what is actually transmitted in initiation

Maybe anons will not like me including this quote because the specific ambiguity of the term "vibration" which ties directly to the counter-initiatic co-opting of ideas like fluidity, frequency or vibration

>René Guénon explains initiatic transmission by writing that he "could not characterize it better than by saying that it is essentially the transmission of spiritual influence." Guénon goes on to say "...an initial vibration must be communicated to it by the spiritual powers... this vibration is the
Fiat Lux that illuminates the chaos and is the necessary starting point for all later developments."
As
>>23549660
Puts it, the main difference is that the infra-human is not something made up, of course I am not going to deny that individuals who were specially qualified were able to pull of very extreme forms of antinomian initiatory rites where they've obviously gone head first into the infrahuman but again they do so always with a genuine illumination of the chaos, mahasiddhas, and numerous ancient tantric Adepts are such individuals

But as that anon also points out, it's literally about a superhuman influence from above, not just some individualistic assemblage of psychical influences (which can indeed lead to the point of aping genuine spirituality)

[Anonymous No.23549853]

>>23549850
I meant to include
>>23549793
As he puts it

[Anonymous No.23549993]

>>23545669
Guys am i losing my mind, is counter initiation getting to me? I look at this photo of guenon and start uncontrollably laughing for no reason, I have been into this author since late 2021

[Anonymous No.23549997]

>>23549993
Maybe you’re realizing how much of a faggot you’re dealing with.

[Anonymous No.23550019]

>>23549997
I wouldn't say that, it's just I have never really payed attention to his portrait or any pictures of him, until at like 3am very recently I just started looking at it and I just burst out laughing, I don't even know why, definitely has nothing to with him being an actual faggot it's just like reading his works and about the stuff he writes about transmission of spiritual influences, alchemy, living and dying and all that, in combination with my thoughts about all the different people I have interacted with (in this weird online subculture) I sort of reflect on that and have a moment of self-awareness, just a flash and I burst out laughing, it only lasted a minute or two it's the first time I've felt any emotion since I started reading him, unfortunately I snapped back to reality, one ruled by satanic sorcerors with elemental beings in its fissures, with goblins and elves and Santa Claus being the Antichrist, damn modernity, oh. Oh... shit now guenonfag has a gun to my head and forcing me to read the upanishads, help me, HELP me!!! Please save me

[Anonymous No.23550349]

>>23549333
> have been floating around the more zoomer "traditionalist" influenced places of the internet
Such as? Also checked.

[Anonymous No.23550373]

>>23549379
>the growing interest in magic and sorcery
I thought this was a good thing. To believe in Magic and sorcery you cannot be a materialist.

[Anonymous No.23551666]

>>23550373
You don't seem to get what materialism actually means, it means more than just believing something about your reality (such philosophical speculations, like material monism is besides the point) the materialist is he who subordinates everything to material ends, soecerors can infact do this and be highly materialistic their daoist black magic to fascinate women and brainwash them etc.

[Anonymous No.23552090]

>>23549333
>I think you should chill out with sharing your prophecies to the people here, people are obviously being affected by the conspiratorialness of it.

What? It's not as if trad authors like Upton have not released literal books for years that cover counter-initiation and visiting podcasts talking about it already back in 2008, and still recently you can find Upton visiting podcasts talking solely about counter-initiation.

Are you honestly blaming my posts for some interest in counter-initiation? These same topics have been widely available on the Internet for the last good ~20 years. I remember watching this documentary already back in 2010 that covered much of Bailey, Blavatsky and their counter-inititation from the 'Aquarian Age' perspective before I had even read Guénon's "Spiritist Fallacy" or "Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion"

The Age of Aquarius - The Age of Evil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LEM4ZY0wfw

Obviously this documentary is from a Christian, almost "satanic panic" type of perspective, but it is quite spot on in regards to many topics and is good introduction to Blavatsky, Theosophical Society and how it evolved to the 'New Age' type of thinking. I also would suggest reading trad author Lee Penn's "False Dawn" that is perhaps the Magnum Opus when it comes to studying "New Age" movements from perennialist perspective.

[Anonymous No.23552111]

The best example of counter-initiation that I know is taking it up the ass. If you can’t see how that is wrong and very bad indeed, you need a big change in your life, and I hope you find it

[Anonymous No.23552131]

>>23552090
>Are you honestly blaming my posts for some interest in counter-initiation
No you are free to do what you please, I overstepped

[Anonymous No.23552360]

>>23552111
>The best example of counter-initiation that I know is taking it up the ass. If you can’t see how that is wrong and very bad inde
There is a whole ritual related to anal penetration through the narrow door that opens on the labyrinth (in the man, the intestine). In Tantric Yoga, the center of Ganesha, the guardian of the gates, is in the region of the rectum. The male organ, if it penetrates directly into the zone of the coiled energy (Kundalini), can allow to awaken it brutally and to cause states of illumination and sudden perception of transcendent realities. This is why this act can play an important role in initiation. "This explains a rite of male initiation, widespread among primitive peoples, though rarely reported by Western observers ..., in which adult male insiders have sex in the anus with novices ... The custom of this kind can be very much at the basis of the homosexual eroticism encouraged so strongly by the Greeks in the classical period. This act is one of the accusations made against the Dionysian organizations by their detractors, and against certain initiatory groups in the Christian and Islamic world

[Anonymous No.23552370]

>>23551666
I’m the devil by the way.

[Anonymous No.23553646]

>>23551666
Sure, but let’s be honest here, nowadays interest in magic doesn’t spring from materialistic needs. Occultism and Buddhism are what atheists resort to due to skepticism, it shows a (shy) desire to transcend while being self conscious about the culture.

[Anonymous No.23553742]

>>23553646
I don't know if I agree with you. Look at /x/ and you'll see prime examples of people using astrology solely to try to predict whether they're going to get their dick wet, "law of attraction" to get money and fame, trying out tai chi and naidan for the immortality in its basest sense. And this would be a step up normies going to psychics and paying $50 to some shyster on Etsy to cast a spell for them.

[Anonymous No.23555617]

>>23553646
>it shows a (shy) desire to transcend
You have got transcendence in reverse it actually a desire to do the opposite.

[Anonymous No.23555642]

>>23545669
that nigga must be the original
>my mom made me go to Church reeee

[Anonymous No.23556885]

>>23555617
No.

[Anonymous No.23556923]

because it's all part of a greater cycle
if you zoom out far enough all lines are circles