/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23536510]

Not a commie, but I can't help but being romantic about lefty circles in the 40's and 50's, particularly in Latin America.

Reading about Che, prior to joining the revolution he was living a bohemian life attending underground literary meetings, discussing books and politics. He met his wife, a radical leftist, at these meetings who exposed him to more of the underground scene. There were clandestine journals, and meetings were full of journalists, poets, writers, and artists. It was at one of these meetings that Che met Fidel Castro.

What are the equivalent versions of that in 2024?

[Anonymous No.23536521]

>>23536510
>What are the equivalent versions of that in 2024?

You're posting in it.

[Anonymous No.23536523]

>>23536510
I don't think anything of this kind exists today. The left today is indescribably lame and puritanical. The right wing tried to force their own version of this but it was abortive (the whole "Dimes Square" scene or whatever it was called)

[Anonymous No.23536525]

>>23536521
Very grim if true.

[Anonymous No.23536529]

>>23536521
>>23536525
Want to talk about composition in production?

[Anonymous No.23536533]

I imagine some serious european universities have something similar, or atleast i'd like to think so. As far as I know, after the Cuban revolution these types of Marxist reading groups became incredibly popular. Especially in Latin America which was dominated by dictatorships. Mario Vargas Llosa talks about it quite a bit and even writes about it in in "The Bad Girl." He mentions how small and dogmatic they were, but also there certainly was a feeling that they were really preparing for a revolution. Some even tried.

>>23536523
>The left today is indescribably lame and puritanical.
I worked at my university newspaper for a year and there was some potential there, though it wasn't very literary. There was also lots of early-woke discourse. This was 10 years ago and safe-spaces were just coming in vogue in Canada.

[Anonymous No.23536534]

>>23536533
those places don't exist because when the soviet union collapsed all the funding that was going to support that crap dried up

[Anonymous No.23536536]

>>23536534
IDK. I had a friend that was big into radical anarchy aobut 15 years ago. Not sure how /lit/ the scene was though.

[Anonymous No.23536541]

>>23536510
The closest you could hope for would be found in large metropolitan cities like New York, Paris, Prague, etc. However, they will most likely be pale imitations of what you actually want. While most people have always struggled to develop a genuine personality, exposure to the internet has made it near impossible for the vast majority of people. All it takes is exposure to one online group that seems interesting enough, and people become trapped in a cycle of becoming an increasingly extreme version of whatever idea that group encapsulates, not really trying to understand or develop the ideas behind the group, but aping them like a monkey beating a stick against the ground after watching a carpenter swing a hammer.

The best you can do, is try to build such a group yourself, be open to dissenting opinions, find people who meaningful engage with material. I live in fucking Kentucky, so that's damn near impossible here, but good luck to you friend.

[Anonymous No.23536545]

>>23536541
Im almost 30. Its too late for me to be idealistic.

[Anonymous No.23536550]

>>23536536
yeah i was into communist shit when i was in college too. it's not literary, it's a bunch of crusty boomers and stupid kids larping. if you want to link up with a bunch of rich radical assholes who hate their dad, check out your local pro-palestine encampment i guess. maybe you might get to talk about edward said with somebody.

[Anonymous No.23536558]

>>23536545
>wants to be a communist
>30 years old
ohh so this was an elaborate troll huh had me there for a second

[Anonymous No.23536559]

>>23536545
You don't have to be an idealist to enjoy genuine discussion and discourse over ideas that you find interesting. I remember a time I shadowed a doctor, and most of what we talked about between patients was philosophy. The man was a genuine monarchist (brazilian, so not entirely hard to understand), and being able to engage with someone who had clear and rational (relative to their experiences) beliefs, was genuinely enjoyable.

It's not wrong to want community that values things you care about, in this case meaningful and intentional thought. You don't have to change the world, you can build a small version of it on an interpersonal scale and enjoy what you glean from others, and what you provide in turn

[Anonymous No.23536560]

>>23536559
if you want meaningful intentional thought linking up with people who parrot a failed ideology from a century ago probably not the best choice

[Anonymous No.23536574]

>>23536558
the first thing I said in my post is that I'm not a commie.

Just that the movement, for university students, must have felt incredibly adventurous in the 1950's -70's. It's hard not to find that compelling.

[Anonymous No.23536577]

>>23536560
I'm not saying he should only speak with people of similar ideologies, I think it's better to engage with a lot of opposing views to help develop your own. But only when you can meet people who have those views from genuine thought and introspection. Only interacting with one type of thought will eventually become an echo-chamber, it will lose elasticity and freedom of thought. OP said he wants the romantic ideal of those communities, not necessarily the ideology.

[Anonymous No.23536598]

>>23536574
ok so go to columbia and clash with the cops over palestine. there's your adventure. have fun.

[Anonymous No.23536614]

>>23536598
I unironically respect those kids.

>>23536533
I think this type of subversive, idealism is dead on university campuses. First, because university is now seen a means to a better job, not as an opportunity to expand your mind. When I went to school most people studied science or business and was more worried about getting jobs then reading for fun.

>>23536545
Im more idealistic now after college than I was in college, for reasons stated above.

[Anonymous No.23536625]

>>23536614
>First, because university is now seen a means to a better job, not as an opportunity to expand your mind. When I went to school most people studied science or business and was more worried about getting jobs then reading for fun.

And secondly, because the rise of smartphones and social media I think there is a genuine fear to stand out. No one wants to risk making a mistake or taking a stand that will be forever on the internet. Even the kids at the palestine encampments talk about wearing masks so they don't get identified when they look for jobs when they graduate.

[Anonymous No.23536639]

>>23536521
That is sad if true.

[Anonymous No.23536641]

>>23536625
>anyone who wants to can just study science or business and get a good job after college
well this right here is why no one gives a shit about leftism except wackos and cranks.

[Anonymous No.23536650]

>>23536641
what?

That was the reality when I went to university. Everyone saw it as job training. Everyone always asked themselves "So what are you gunna do with that" when discussing their major.

[Anonymous No.23536661]

>>23536650
yes, the point was people don't need communism when they can get an engineering degree in 4 years. like if you hate your job so much you would be willing to overthrow the government, you can just go to college which is A LOT easier.

[Anonymous No.23536679]

>>23536661
>go to college
>do homework
>get degree
>get job
>never question anything
>never have an original thought

Most degrees should just become apprenticeships desu.

[Anonymous No.23536698]

>>23536679
idk about third world countries, but american degrees require a ton of shit outside of your core major.

[Anonymous No.23536719]

>>23536698
In Canada it depends. I studient economics and had quite a few electives so I took lots of History classes and had to take some science classes too. Only one literature course iirc.

But for engineers specifically, they were only required to take one W level course. That is, only one course that would satisfy a writing requirement. So virtually any humanity course that would require them to write an essay. I remember that there was a petition by some engineer students to get it removed or get a refund on that class, because "we came here to study engineering, and only engineering"

[Anonymous No.23536733]

>>23536698
>idk about third world countries, but american degrees require a ton of shit outside of your core major.

>idk about [x], but [x]

I can see you did an American "degree," but please stop putting your case so forcefully that Universities are sites of the accumulation of skilled labour.

[Anonymous No.23536747]

>>23536733
>accumulation of skilled labor
wow that sounds so marxy, must be dealin with a real intellectual here folx

[Anonymous No.23536789]

>>23536510
Check out The Motorcycle Diaries if you haven't already. I thought it was decent, but I can see the appeal for Che fanboys and/or socialists. It's about how the blatant inequalities in his travel as a doctor across rural South America radicalize him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypmu86_sKpU

[Anonymous No.23536795]

>>23536521
fpbp

[Anonymous No.23536854]

>>23536545
Never too late anon.

[Anonymous No.23536870]

>>23536510
>but I can't help but being romantic about lefty circles in the 40's and 50's, particularly in Latin America.
Anon, this underground romanticism thing was a constant thing since forever. THere were always the bohemian types living in whatever place at whatever time. there where the literature writers of the 20's and 30s in paris, there where teh viennna coffee house scenes in the 1800s
there were the english coffee/tea house scene in the 1700s.
Heck, the dilitantism of St. augustus and other wealthy romans summering with friends in a villa and discussinf philosophy are similar back in the 200's.

If you want to explore this "energy" its a pretty common repeating thing in history thats equally romantic whenever.

[Anonymous No.23536882]

>>23536854
would you like to subscribe to my newsletter?

[Anonymous No.23536889]

>>23536870
the only difference is I think in the marxist circles it was much more revolutionary and clandestine.

Yeah the coffee houses in france during the enlightenment maybe had a similiar energy, but there wasn't a youthful energy of people who were chomping at the bit to start a revolution.

Regardless, whatever movement that might have existed in 2012 when I went to university that might have matched that energy, I missed it.

[Anonymous No.23536898]

>>23536889
>Yeah the coffee houses in france during the enlightenment maybe had a similiar energy, but there wasn't a youthful energy of people who were chomping at the bit to start a revolution.
yah there where. there was literally a revolution.

But yes, IDK if most of what I mentioned was quite as "fired up" with that sense of changing the world, though most of them felt like they were doing something new and revolutionary at the time. imagine creating fractional reserve banking in some 1700's dutch coffee house and not think that this is a world changing thing you just made.

[Anonymous No.23536908]

>>23536898
maybe it's just the stories of che and castro and some of the other movements can be imagined much more vividly.

I just cant imagine it being as exciting, being a bunch of french lawyers and writers drinking coffee full of sugar talking about these ideas VS being a bunch of scrappy university students meeting secretly, organizing protests and strikes, planning revolutions and armed struggle

[Anonymous No.23536912]

i bet there must be a lot of them in cuba! right guise?!

[Anonymous No.23536923]

>>23536908
I guess temporal proximity is a factor.
But the 1700s enlightenment was pretty crazy. especially seeing how a lot of the big underground voices were also literally in contact with kings at the hight of their absolute power and stuff like Voltaire, and both shat on them and conversed convivially with them at the same time. Or someone literally plaining a venture half way across the globe and conquering half of a subcontenent, or inventing calculus, or being so volitile that you get kicked out of 5 countries and live in a perminent legal loophole zone.

[Anonymous No.23536968]

It was slop. After ww2 the redscare and CIA was in full swing on that shit, I think in the 50s or 60s 1 in 5 members of the CPUSA were feds.

All that "radical leftist" shit back then was planted by the CIA also https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2021/10/15/cointelpro-fbi-anarchism-disrupt-left/

That's why nothing good came of it. Or all the *not-communist* New Left Frank Furt School whatever post-modern shit that guys like Jordan Peterson cry about even though it has nothing to do with marxism which was also conveniently funded by CIA.

[Anonymous No.23537301]

speaking from first hand experience, the Bohemian lifestyle isn't all its chocked up to be

if you actually want to know how to find the modern equivalent of this sort of thing though, you're going to want to look into your local music scene. small time venues and bars where literally who garage band musicians can play. punk shows. stuff like that. im sure if you walk around the city you can find posters for shows

you go get drunk and socialize, make friends. if you can play music yourself, its pretty much a guaranteed in as long as you have social skills and can fit in. this is the easiest way to meet you bohemian journalists, writers, artists, leftists, activists etc, that whole crowd.

one of the small bars I used to frequent that my friends played at a lot was straight up run by anarchists and would close down the bar at the end of the night on certain days and have these sort of secret meetings

[Anonymous No.23537309]

>>23536968
the 1950s and 1960s CIA funded a shit load of revolutionary social democratic academics in the US, who were better communists than the Tankies.

[Anonymous No.23537314]

>>23537301
"The local music scene" can't handle my need to talk about Hegel.

[Anonymous No.23537338]

>>23537314
certainly most people there wont be wanting to discus hegel with you, but its probably the only way a completely unconnected person will realistically be able to make connections and meet the people OP described. if you want to meet bohemian people you have to go to a bohemian setting.

outside of perhaps going to a university I guess. but making friends at a show where these types of people go and get drunk and looking to meet new people anyway is probably by a far much easier setting to navigate than in a university, and I grantee you if you start an active social life in this sort of scene you will eventually find some leftist who will be ecstatic to discuss hegel with you. hegel is not some deep esoteric philosopher that no one has heard about.

just dont expect them to not be faggots since the entire bohemian/leftist scene is the absolute foundation of "progressive" stuff. if you want to get in deep into this sort of scene you will have to be tolerant or folks wont be able to drop you fast enough.

[Anonymous No.23537346]

>>23536510
All culture is dead. There are no genuine intellectual organisations anymore, all productive organisation of humanity is dead. There is just the lone individual, improve himself as he will, he is comparatively handicapped.

[Anonymous No.23537369]

>>23537346
the history of intellectualism is literally just social settings where people discuss the latest trendy intellectual stuff. it happens now just as it always has. unfortunately right now, post modernism is what is trendy, so if you want to participate, thats the game you have to play. find the post-modern bohemian watering hole where that crowd congregates and engage in post-modern Café philosophique. if thats not good enough for you then invent a time machine

[Anonymous No.23537380]

>>23537338
Universities are the worst way to contact others, in my experience. So your contribution is very correct.

Parties tend to give what I need, but most of them are deficient. I end up an outsider in parties.

[Anonymous No.23537873]

>>23537338
>just dont expect them to not be faggots since the entire bohemian/leftist scene is the absolute foundation of "progressive" stuff.

any good anecdotes or stories to share?

[Anonymous No.23538065]

>>23536598
what's it like being illiterate

[Anonymous No.23538071]

>>23536510
They were all pseud faggots that got exactly what they deserved.

[Anonymous No.23538073]

>>23536698
So you're paying extra to learn shit like woman's studies and white men bad class #10483? that sucks

[Anonymous No.23538104]

Closest thing to this would be the right-wing of Catholic universities and traditionalist seminaries (although all the seminaries in the US are dominated by traditionalists at this point). By this I mean, people who are young and passionate about ideas and want to change the world and do something different and are semi-underground etc. That's the only scene I've encountered that comes close to what OP is describing.