/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23512336]

Ok. He's convinced me that Liberalism is a failure, economically and socially and that they have ultimately led to the decay of the soul of the west.

What books can I read that offer an alternative? Any books that offer a deep dive into what can and should replace liberalism and neo-liberalism?

[Anonymous No.23512358]

>>23512336

Also, am I right to see the rise of the right wing populists as a guise to further liberalize the economies in the west?

Farage, Trump, Zemmour. Sure, they might want to reduce immigration, have a less liberal view on social issues, and are somewhat isolationist, but their economic policies revere the power of markets.

[Anonymous No.23512409]

>>23512336
>>What books can I read that offer an alternative?
huh? democracy is working as intended, but the weird thing is that it relies on the propaganda there should be ''change'' to feel like when they took power during their revolutions. Of course there will never be a revolution on a society which already has suffered from a revolution.


So you guys have to accept that:
1/ all societies decay
2/ the democratic republics by the bourgeois civil servants and the bourgeois businessmen will not be exempted from decay
3/ the new society will not have the bourgeois at the top, ie it will not be a republic
4/ if the new model of society is so obvious, the bourgeois will nip it in the bud, in order to keep their republics alive
5/ the new society will NEVER EVER be created by any civil servant or businessman

=>The solution will never come from any media products like the coomer Zemmour in France, nor from a business product like the coomer Trump in the USA, nor from an academic product like Milei (in democracy, academia is part of the entertainment industry), let alone a self-made intellectual like Dugin, nor from a woman because, in democracy, women are products of bureaucracies and marketing.
The solution will come from somebody who is not part of the republic. Only an external element and/or an external event to the republic will destroy the republic and the fake dichotomy bureaucrats-businessmen for good.
The point is that it will be so strange that westerners won't see it coming.

[Anonymous No.23512410]

>>23512358
I prescribe Fukuyama, right now.

[Anonymous No.23512416]

>>23512336
Embrace Austro-mercantilist neo-royalism.

[Anonymous No.23512417]

>>23512409
this psyop again
revolution is only an option when people have little enough to lose to risk everything on a solution that guarantees death for many and has good odds of landing on totalitarianism by the end.
unless we've gotten there, stop tossing babies out with the bathwater it's moronic

[Anonymous No.23512469]

>>23512336
I would highly recommend Byung Chul Han. He and Houellebecq would most certainly disagree on some things, but he's still very insightful and it gives you the opportunity to think for yourself. Then you go deeper by reading the authors Han and Houellebecq talk about.

[Anonymous No.23512475]

>>23512336
You must have an easily moldable mind

[Anonymous No.23512507]

>>23512475
why do you say that

[Anonymous No.23512640]

>>23512336
The Turner Diaries

[Anonymous No.23512737]

>>23512336
>an alternative
>what can and should replace liberalism and neo-liberalism
You missed the point of Houellebecq

[Anonymous No.23512750]

>>23512737
What?
Houellebecq paints a picture of where liberalism has left the west. Very accurately, imo. That's all he does. He doesn't provide any answers. Even in Submission, he suggests that liberalism is creating a vacuum of meaning, but I don't think he was making an argument that Islam (or other ideologies), dynamic as they may be, are the alternative.

So, it leads to the ultimate question: what's next? What should be next? Houellebecq doesnt have any answers, and even if he does, just because he correctly diagnoses the problems with liberalism, doens't mean his prediction on what should replace it is at all valid.

[Anonymous No.23512751]

>>23512336
This faggot simps for Israel btw. Everything he says is suspicious and contradictory to this.

[Anonymous No.23512764]

>>23512751
one of the JQs is "who's more responsible for destroying the west, jews or westerners?" i think it's just that wellbeck falls more on the latter side of that question and sees that jews have a strong internal community and respects them for it in a vacuum. there are a few cases of this, it isn't just bending the knee to ZOG. i'm saying this as someone that's weighed the scales and now supports as many holocausts as it takes.

[Anonymous No.23512767]

>>23512751
He didn't grow up with internet.

[Anonymous No.23512768]

There is no alternative. Make dealings.

[Anonymous No.23512841]

>>23512416
What is this?

[Anonymous No.23512845]

>>23512841
A rapidly aging cryptokike

[Anonymous No.23512852]

>>23512336

[Anonymous No.23512860]

>>23512852
>those three are the only options
Time to rope

[Anonymous No.23512886]

>>23512841
Basically AnCap without the legal theory

[Anonymous No.23513175]

>>23512750
>He doesn't provide any answers.
That's my point. He doesn't provide serious answers because there are none. Or at least none that anyone wants to accept, for example dictatorship or world war, which will ramify into a plethora of civil wars and internal disputes. Liberalism a high-speed train with no brakes which we can either keep on its tracks or derail at full speed.

[Anonymous No.23513189]

>>23513175
or a slow return to social conservatism and more socialist economic policies?

[Anonymous No.23513214]

>>23513189
Lay out for us in a bit more detail, as a thought experiment, how this is possible in democratic governments highly susceptible to financial influence.

[Anonymous No.23513219]

I wish I could bring myself to believe in Christianity
I am haunted by Catholicism and Christendom in general but there seems to be a massive chasm between where I am and where I'd need to be in order to believe
Mainly the problems separating me from belief are the Bible
I believe in God and I have an emotional draw towards Christianity but I have so many problems with the Bible that it seems impossible to justify

[Anonymous No.23513260]

>>23513214
I'm Canadian, so our election system is differently, and although the ability to raise money, and PR from large corporations plays a role, it's certainly not as bad as in the USA. Anyhow...

The way I see it, particularly in countries like Canada, France and the UK, alot of the conservative social issues are being used by right wing populists (Farage, Le Pen, Zemmour) to build up huge bases of support and destroy the political ruling class. The problem is, on the economic front, they are largely for laissez-faire capitalism, though some are, to varying degrees, skeptical of unrestricted free trade.

Well, I think there is ample opportunity for someone that is economically left wing, to come in and make the case that big corporations are promoting mass immigration to lower wages of citizens, lash out against woke politics, and generally promote more socially conservative values while also being skeptical of free markets.

Instead, we have left wing socialists who cozy up to liberal arts students and instead of fighting for stronger unions and reduced immigration, fight for gender neutral bathrooms.

Elect me prime minister and I would...
1. Break up big oligopolies
2. Tax mega corporation
3. Reduce immigration
4. Provide tax breaks and incentives for people to start families

[Anonymous No.23513271]

>>23513260
at the same time, I wonder if that would be appealing to people.

I talk to lots of my friends and many or for mass immigration, unrestricted euthanasia, transgender sports, etc. etc.
It's possible I overestimate the appetite from more traditional left wing voters for these types of social policies.

[Anonymous No.23513289]

>>23512336
>liberalism is a failure
>haven’t had liberalism in the west for over a hundred years now

[Anonymous No.23513299]

>>23513219
What 'problems'? You either have faith or you do not. Religion is not supposed to be the rational product of some kind of literary deductive process. Do you believe, in your heart, that jesus is the son of the almighty and died for your sins? This is what is necessary, not an emotional or aesthetic draw, nor a proof derived from the scripture. Problems with the bible are only arguments against sola scriptura. For so many, especially the americans, the mindset of evangelists/fundamentalists IS christianity. But there is a reason the oldest denominations refuse to rely on the testaments: under a cold analysis they cannot give the richness of the catholic, or the orthodox, or even the protestant tradition. You MUST have faith first, then you will begin to understand; then you will see the many mysteries in the scripture. This has been understood since St. Augustine. How can you not understand that thinking you need history documents to believe, a sort of empirical evidence, is irreligious as a foundation? No faith can sprout from that. If you then ask, 'then where does what we know come from' read the book of acts and the claims of the apostolic churches; but also consider whether it is sensible to ask a religion (think of any number of non-abrahamic religions) to satisfy your rational, scientific desire. How insipid would it be to ask 'how can you PROVE the buddha existed', or 'how can you prove he reached enlightenment', 'how can you lrove he taught that?!?!'. This is non-essential. Now understand the insanity of fundamentalists sketching out proofs of the trinity from the EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE of jesus' death and the EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE of jesus being resurrected in the book of acts/gospels.

I cannot believe. I cannot have faith. Therefore i cannot be religious even though i too am drawn to it. And so my rational coding will continue to pick away at what remains that humanity has taken for granted until there is nothing left.

[Anonymous No.23513313]

>>23513289
What have we had?

[Anonymous No.23513320]

>>23513260
>tax megacorps
dang, how did he lose? that's odd.

[Anonymous No.23513333]

>>23513320
>dang, how did he lose? that's odd.
I was being hypothetical

but you're right, in Canada even conservative governments that have fucked with the oligopologies get rolled by their lobbyists.

Ie, Harper and the Telecoms.

[Anonymous No.23513428]

>>23513299
Documentary hypothesis
Israelites were Canaanites
No evidence for the Biblical Exodus
Are the big problems for me
>Do you believe, in your heart, that jesus is the son of the almighty and died for your sins?
The concept of 'son of the almighty' and 'died for your sins' and 'sins' itself is all based on what is found in the Bible
As it stands, no I don't believe that at all, I don't even believe in the Christian concept of sin and feel like it's alien to my upbringing and culture
Also I suppose part of my problem is that my belief in God was brought about by William Lane Craig and so I have a very logic based perspective, furthermore part of the emotional appeal of Christianity is that it was the foundation of a lot of Western art that I respect
As someone who believes in God and believes that God is the objective standard, I can't just decide to accept Christianity on faith alone because I feel that's not what God wants of me

[Anonymous No.23513462]

>>23513260
An economically left wing and socially conservative (or at least anti mass migration) party would do really well in Canada. Most people you talk to, outside of insulated government workers and other petit bourgeois professionals, think that the current levels of immigration are a cynical ploy by a bought and paid for government to import cheap labour and keep housing prices high. If the NDP dumped Singh and promised to cut immigration I’m sure they’d clean house next election. It’s a shame Pollievre is our only hope for change next election; there’s no way that man is going to do anything that would harm corporate interests.

[Anonymous No.23513478]

>>23512841
A son of Judah.

[Anonymous No.23513489]

>>23513313
Socialism

[Anonymous No.23513497]

>>23513260
>Elect me prime minister and I would...
>1. Break up big oligopolies
>2. Tax mega corporation
>3. Reduce immigration
>4. Provide tax breaks and incentives for people to start families
You wouldn't be able to do any of that, because you wouldn't have absolute authority. In a modern democracy you'll be owned by donors, political allies, and your constituents, lest they oust you with their collective power (and they will, easily). And when your political opponents take power back (and they will), what do you think they're going to do?

[Anonymous No.23513854]

>>23512886
Isn't ancap entirely a legal theory

[Anonymous No.23513859]

>>23513489

[Anonymous No.23513862]

>>23513859
He's right you know ;)

[Anonymous No.23514070]

>>23513299
Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. Faith and reason are compatible. The Church has been teaching this since the time of Saint Thomas Aquinas. There is plenty of empirical evidence for the New Testament's authorship and claims (read 'Can We Trust the Gospels?'). It would be against God's justice were it not so.

[Anonymous No.23514230]

>>23512841
a programmer who likes the ccp

[Anonymous No.23514240]

>>23512841
An insect covered with fungus. Literally.

[Anonymous No.23514256]

>>23512336
The End of History and the Last Man - Fukuyama
The Fourth Political Theory - Dugin

Just don't drink all of the kool-aid

[Anonymous No.23514723]

>>23513428
>As someone who believes in God and believes that God is the objective standard, I can't just decide to accept Christianity on faith alone
Arriving rationally at a belief in a creator god has nothing to do with religion. I think you should try metaphysics instead. Maybe plato or something.
>I feel that's not what God wants of me
This is the only 'religious' or remotely christian sentiment ive heard from you so far.
>furthermore part of the emotional appeal of Christianity is that it was the foundation of a lot of Western art that I respect
As a european i take very seriously my artistic inheritence. You will be relieved to know that christianity is no foundation of it, at least in painting. For centuries western art WAS christian art in subject matter, but this is no foundation. Other than the early medieval/gothic style, which i doubt is what you mean when you say respect, christian theology/tradition has had little impact on visual art compared to the classical pagan period. I was in pompei the other week and it is remarkable how similar Roman painting is in motifs to the renaissance/baroque. That is to say nothing of sculpture.
>Documentary hypothesis, Israelites were Canaanites, No evidence for the Biblical Exodus
I dont know what you mean by documentary evidence. This is a cliche, but the idea of the scriptures intending to be literal historical accounts is a relatively new one. They are divinely inspired and layered in meaning, meaning that surfaces WHEN YOU BELIEVE. It is not a mathematical proof culminating in all the theology of the church, and was not until very recently intended to be read as such. This connects to >>23514070. The fundamentalists have their faith but in their minds it is only justified post-hoc by the empirical evidence which is the bible. Inevitably under scrutiny the bible cannot serve to prove any hypothesis in a scientific way, in which case the fundamentalist has a crisis of faith, like bart ehrman, because their approach to religion was at its core deeply irreligious.

>>23514070
You say 'bullshit bullshit'. St Thomas aquinas never finished his summa theologica, saying "I cannot, because all that I have written seems like straw to me" at the foot of a religious experience. He finally saw the truth, that all of this was the death of faith. Among the theologians and great ecclesiasts of the high medieval period there was a battle between faith and reason, between the dialectitions and the anti-dialectitions. Reason won in the heart of western thought and christianity has not recovered since. It was the birth of protestantism and the sciences and eventually atheism, this spiral of rationality.

[Anonymous No.23514730]

>>23514723
Cont.
Here is an excerpt from Gordon Leff's 'medieval thought,:
>St Anselms entire position rests upon the primacy of faith. We must recognise that, like st augustine, he allowed reason no independent validity. For both, reason was an instrument in demonstrating what was already believed; of itself it could not add to certitude, although it could give additional evidences of its truth. Like st augustine, Anselm held to the maxim 'if you do not believe you will not understand'. Reason, therefore, cpuld never be more than a meditation upon faith, and it always presupposed it.

[Anonymous No.23514751]

>>23513428
>The concept of 'son of the almighty' and 'died for your sins' and 'sins' itself is all based on what is found in the Bible
Have you actually read any of the bible?

[Anonymous No.23514786]

>>23512768
>liberalism falling apart after less than a century
>There is no alternative lol

[Anonymous No.23514795]

>>23514256
>unironically recommending Fukuyama

[Anonymous No.23514846]

>>23512336
we may have ruined the planet, but at least we made some balla-ass fried chicken. black lives matter, bitch. YOLO

[Anonymous No.23514972]

>>23512417
Reform has never affected meaningful change. Ever.

[Anonymous No.23515132]

>>23514972
This. Some of you need to read a history book

[Anonymous No.23515186]

>>23512336
Fuck around and do what you want. When one system of domination fails you dont need to immediately run off to find a replacement like all the other idiots.

[Anonymous No.23515279]

>>23515186
>Fuck around and do what you want
on a macro scale, this leads to exactly where we are right not you goomba.

>When one system of domination fails you dont need to immediately run off to find a replacement like all the other idiots.
very euphoric

[Anonymous No.23515300]

>>23512640
lit liberals keep dabbing on this after reading 10 pages but Piece really nailed it. the gun grabs, the media scapegoating of white people. turner diaries is one of the most predictive cyberpunk narratives ever written and we are living in it.

[Anonymous No.23515430]

>>23514972
>>23515132
Why are reforms impossible? Why is a violent revolution only thing that works?

[Anonymous No.23515444]

>>23515430
Because reform implies we can only function within the constraints of the current paradigm, and that this paradigm shall be the conduit and administrator of any and all future changes through its institutions and bureaucracies in a top-down manner rather than taking a more well-rounded bottom-up trajectory. Reforms are essentially compromises made by the ruling class that are characterized by newfound or reconfigured methods of exploiting their lessers, whereas revolution completely absolves all the constituents of a particular society from the system they have been under altogether, and sets the precedent for something thoroughly and inviolably new.

[Anonymous No.23515494]

>>23513497
I summarized here >>23515430 but I'll reiterate. In modern democracy, lawmakers and leaders are beholden to donors, political allies, lobbyists, and donors, lest they be ousted by the power of money, law, media perception, votes (all these closely intertwined). In short, when you play by the rules, the political system ossifies and halts under judicial, bureaucratic, and financial power. Only a revolutionary figure can break the wheel and effect meaningful, lasting change. The old guard knows this well, which is why early in his campaign, Donald Trump, not without some truth, was painted as a radical Caesarian populist. Before someone leaps to call me a retard for thinking Trump to be a revolutionary politician who enacted meaningful, lasting change: that's not what I'm saying. I think Trump is a grifter who merely took advantage of populism for his own personal gain and narcissism. But in doing so he's exposed the liberal democratic system's weakness to Caesarism, and is a herald of the coming age of Caesars.

[Anonymous No.23516853]

>>23512336
The Aztecs and toltecs are unique in two ways.

1. Their population tended to be more attractive then their slaves/conquered people's.

Maya to Peru to Europe to Asia all of those civilizations all function the same. "Betas males make the world go round."

2. The average person was aware of the cycle of empires FROM THE BEGINNING.

Americans think they are so enlightened today talking about Rome and how civilizations function in 2024. lol

[Anonymous No.23516879]

>>23513219
>I believe in God and I have an emotional draw towards Christianity but I have so many problems with the Bible that it seems impossible to justify
Your problem isn't with Christianity thenn, it's with Protestantism and sola scriptura. Pope out, dude! The Roman Catholics don't depend on the Bible, but on a direct historical transmission from the founding Apostles accompanied by God-guided Papal Infallibility when it comes to a crunch. It's an organizational faith, not a Biblical one.

[Anonymous No.23516903]

>>23512336
>liberalism and neo-liberalism
These are different things, and neoliberalism was not a failure at all. It succeeded, but neoliberal society is Nietzsche's last man society.

>What books can I read that offer an alternative?
Nietzsche, Byung-Chul Han

>Any books that offer a deep dive into what can and should replace liberalism and neo-liberalism?
I don't think it's so simple.

[Anonymous No.23516939]

>>23512358
I don't think there's a guise of any sort. They genuinely believe in reducing immigration and other conservative ideas, and also genuinely believe in the market

[Anonymous No.23518147]

>>23512336
there is no alternative, live your life the best you can instead of fantasizing about alternatives to the current system that will never exist

[Anonymous No.23518273]

>>23518147
What makes you think the current system is sustainable?

[Anonymous No.23518460]

>>23518273
Why isn't it sustainable? Where is the revolution? Where is the apocalypse you doomers are always wailing about? If liberalism destroys society then why does everyone in the world still want liberalism? Why do the masses care for nothing but individuality, utilitarian freedom and mass consumption? There is no civil war, there is no mass violence or riots or pogroms that threaten the security of any Western state, the last time this happened was with May 68 in France and it immediately died out the moment that the state made a couple concessions. The average fat retarded adult in America on Ozempic and TikTok-obsessed narcissistic college student has no potential to ever be a soldier wielding a gun one day. History is fucking done. You watch from your homes America destroy Iraq and Gaza and it's nothing but spectacle. You bitch and whine about the decay of your culture because of liberal values but the moment you see a Muslim immigrant wear a hijab then suddenly you become the most ardent liberal in the world and push for more nudity and brag about how good it is to be LGBT in America compared to Syria.

I'm speaking rhetorically of course. This is just how it is. There is no death of the West. The West hasn't been infiltrated with some foreign ideology laying waste to its foundations. The West IS LIBERALISM, it has been for centuries. The French and English conquered the planet and any value the West held prior to the ascendance of Locke and Voltaire as its gods is irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.23518472]

>>23518460
I imagine every empire in world history thought theirs would reign forever. Why would it be any different this time?

[Anonymous No.23518542]

>>23518472
Because you could conspire to form a revolution before mass surveillance which you'll never be able to do again?

[Anonymous No.23518546]

>>23518460
>then why does everyone in the world still want liberalism?
Big LOL

I don't know how anybody could be so out of touch. If you are over 18 there is no excuse.

[Anonymous No.23518549]

I get annoyed when people misidentify the modern leftist political project as “liberalism”. It’s actually progressivism, or liberal-progressivism. It might sound trivial but it is distinct from liberalism. We don’t live in the world of Locke, Rousseau, or the Founding Fathers. At most, they gave us the seeds for the plant of progressivism but that’s all. This is an age of central banking, socialized medicine, mass conscription, social engineering and an unholy alliance between politics finance and media. None of this is properly liberal.

I think you can’t hope to move beyond this moment if you don’t know properly what it is.

[Anonymous No.23518558]

>>23518546
The world isn't your Dissident Right Twittex LARP, and even those heckin' Bronze Age warriors ultimately do nothing in the face of liberalism.

[Anonymous No.23518576]

>>23516903
>I don't think it's so simple.
Endless rave, apotheosis of dance. Nothing complicated about that.

[Anonymous No.23518609]

>>23518549
The greatest trick the devil ever played has been to create a false equivalence between progressivism and the liberal cause. You and I may realize that buying a Tesla is the opposite of being a progressive, but can we assume the same for the vast, vast majority of people?
To apply the term 'neoliberalism' to both progressives and liberalists made sense in the '60s when both were fighting the common enemy of the postwar big state. I wish economists could come up with a new word for neoliberalism because most people still think it means blue-haired people screaming on college campuses.

[Anonymous No.23518656]

/// The cold weather began to set in /// And parents can not, and should not, be constant sources of unqualified praise /// The trustees have a dispositive power to transfer the money /// This is more than just clever marketing - formerly desolate stretches of the riverfront, city streets, and buildings have been resurrected for locals and visitors alike /// The professor held forth on the current state of politics until everyone was sick of the topic /// You won the first game and I won the second, so it's a wash /// The new runway is a billion-dollar boondoggle /// He took folk music and melded it with pop /// They are guided by the visible grid of the trellis /// He is duped by a debonair con man into opening a car and safe, and lands in jail for a year /// He spoke without notes but with a crib sheet of four points /// I slipped away from the guided tour /// He found himself pilloried by members of his own party /// Why did people get in a flap over nuclear energy? /// His agonised eyes, fear-stricken, glinted white in the moonlight, and there was foam on his jowl /// I suspect that they stay in the scullery only a few days and in the kitchen only a few weeks /// He killed 12 people before the authorities finally nabbed him /// I was a sassy kid who sometimes talked back to my mother /// She delivered her speech with tremendous wit and verve /// The chassis lurched forward and then back sharply, knocking the four passengers off balance /// The unrest has cast a pall over what is usually a day of national rejoicing ///Just put it in my in tray and I'll look at it later /// This odious walled vertical suburb is a civic embarrassment, the embodiment of a runaway plutocracy that places its own interests over the commonweal — and common decency /// They spent their honeymoon in a cruddy beachside hotel /// His Catholic upbringing informs all his writing /// Doug seems to have mellowed recently /// A cohort of hangers-on followed the singer down the corridor /// Jessi didn't say what she wanted, that prissy Ashley wasn't the type to roam the streets with thugs ////

[Anonymous No.23518666]

>>23512409
It's here. It's called Xi Jinping Thought.

[Anonymous No.23518679]

>>23518549
It's not "properly liberal" but it doesn't need to be. What is liberalism, after all? It's an ideology. It's something that people believe in so it can facilitate the systems we have in place. It what liberalism became and so that's what it is today. It is social safety nets, it is fluidity of gender and sexuality, it is identity politics used to placate the masses and make them feel as if they belong, it is military dominance and media propaganda. Maybe Locke wouldn't like it but that ship sailed many, many years ago

[Anonymous No.23518720]

>>23518546
You're bored. And because you're bored you've convinced yourself that the most powerful empire in the world is going to collapse and we're going to live a Mad Max dystopia. You convince yourself that a domestic battle between 2 unpopular geriatric politicians means that a war of genocide, bloodshed and destruction is on the horizon. This is the sickness of boredom that people from Nietzsche to Fukuyama warned about. In reality the masses of the world all want to migrate to the West, they all want liberal freedoms, they all get drunk with deranged narratives that their societies will crumble if they don't have their Hollywood movies and democracy. None of you fucking people know what it's like to be born outside of a Western cosmopolitan culture and watch your own culture decline day by day, and yet you still pretend as if you're Ernst Junger fighting a war for your country

[Anonymous No.23518725]

>>23518720
This is oddly specific. I think you used to be the person you're describing, so you project it onto others.

[Anonymous No.23518819]

>>23518725
Never was. It's just that everyone else is wrong but me. Every day, fucking nonsense tirades about how le wokeism has nothing to do with liberalism or how pronouns are going to destroy the West or how the West is being taken over by Islamo-Marxist infiltrators who will implement LGBT sharia because nobody realizes that this is their society and that their society has already won the battle

[Anonymous No.23519170]

Is it enough to advocate for more social democratic left wing policies, but still believe that markets are ultimately the only way to create prosperity?

Christian Democratic parties seem to be the way.

[Anonymous No.23519467]

>>23518460
>History is fucking done
No, it just isn't moving at a resolution you can perceive right now.
We are in fact at a watershed moment which will determine a great deal of future events. This moment is strangely shaped compared to decision points which individual people are used to dealing with and thus it remains obscure to most. If you have a smartphone and can use the word "based" in a sentence you will live to see the conclusion of this moment but by the time you understand what has happened it will have passed.

[Anonymous No.23519503]

>>23512336

[Anonymous No.23519508]

>>23516853
books on this?

[Anonymous No.23519545]

>>23514730
Nah, God very obviously exists. St. Paul could say nearly 2000 years ago:
>The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Them's the facts. This quote also reminds me of yet another quote: every difficult moral decision is a dilemma for the morally bankrupt.

[Anonymous No.23519553]

>>23519170
No because you're still advocating for Liberalism with a different name-tag.

[Anonymous No.23519564]

>>23519545
> every difficult moral decision is a dilemma for the morally bankrupt.
why?

[Anonymous No.23519808]

>>23519553
how so?

[Anonymous No.23520000]

>>23518460
Stop drinking the Kool aid Fukuyama

[Anonymous No.23520019]

>>23518720
You are full of shit
The only thing that is holding liberalism are US miliary and the dollar and both are declining

[Anonymous No.23520035]

>>23518720
>masses of the world all want to migrate to the West, they all want liberal freedoms
They don't give a fuck about freedom they just want free shit lmao
>None of you fucking people know what it's like to be born outside of a Western cosmopolitan culture
Do you? Majority of the world doesn't give a fuck about human rights and other spooks
>and watch your own culture decline day by day,
That's exactly what's happening here

[Anonymous No.23520455]

>>23519170
All the parties do the same thing bro
The overton window is a eye of a needle glued to a washing line

[Anonymous No.23520951]

>>23518558
The world isn't like your discord server
Majority of the world is disgusted by LGBT shit

[Anonymous No.23520953]

Atheists are naive realists, there is nothing to learn.

[Anonymous No.23520992]

>>23512336
>what books can I read that offer any alternative
I'll never understand people like you. Why can't you think for yourself?

[Anonymous No.23520997]

>>23512409
>democracy is working as intended
What universe are you living in? Lmfao.

[Anonymous No.23521202]

>>23512336
Picrel I haven't read specifically but I've read his other books. He also appears on podcast on the new right and he's just a delightful human being and provides a great insight on why liberalism fails (his Pints with Aquinas interview summarizes key insights).

[Anonymous No.23521239]

>>23512336
What is to be done by Vadimir Lenin

[Anonymous No.23521554]

>>23513462
No it wouldn’t. Nobody is truly anti-immigration in Canada, they simply do not like Indians (and other south asians). Indian students and Nigerian students have flooded into the country recently but all hate is directed to the former and the latter go by undetected. Yes, black worship is a thing even in Canada. Pollievre will offer Nigerian students PR but wants to send Indian students home. There is no appetite for stopping mass immigration, people just don’t want immigrants from certain places. Racism towards blacks is taboo, racism towards asians is not. I think some of it has to do with the fact that asians compete with whites for the well paying/middle class jobs while blacks don’t. So there is more of a reason to fear asian students than blacks.

[Anonymous No.23521555]

>>23518460
Literally no one is happy with the current system except for the boomers who are gonna die off in the next 20 years
The regime change is inevitable

[Anonymous No.23521570]

>>23512336
It is not a failure as well as materialism, it does EXACTLY what it advocates for— it encourages decadence , nihilism and hedonism. Racism is a necessary evil , and pluralism is good.

[Anonymous No.23522128]

>>23521554
Ordinary people do not want black immigrants either, they just fear to openly say do because – as you point out – doing so is taboo.

[Anonymous No.23522240]

>>23520951
Majority of the world is also poor and powerless

[Anonymous No.23522287]

>>23512336
I really like how people say liberalism has "failed" in the west and they talk and notice all these things like:
>decaying rule of law
>mass-immigration without any say from the host population
>high market interventionism
>huge surge in positive rights, practically demanding the state step in on the most trivial of matters.
>mass surveilence
>increased centralization
>curtailment of free speech
and they then say that we apparently still live under liberalism. I'm not even a liberal.

[Anonymous No.23522292]

Seriously OP. What do you think someone like JS Mill would say if you somehow took him with you in a time machine to our current year and ask him whether he thinks everything has gone according to plan?

[Anonymous No.23522303]

>>23522128
No they do. Go read the Canadian housing subreddit were they complain about mass asian immigration. The comments state they aren’t against immigration and prop up black immigrants against asian immigrants regularly. Whenever someone comments that they’re not a fan of black immigrants, they are downvoted to an oblivion and called racist by the same people who have no issue calls asians pajeets and chinks. Asians make up 20% of Canada’s population, blacks around 4%; nobody would dare to ask a black Canadian if they were born here (“where are you from?”) but asian Canadians are asked this regularly. Asians can never be Canadian, they will always be perpetual foreigners which is why they live in their segregated shanty towns like Brampton. Blacks who have been here for six months are considered Canadian. Whites have a soft spot for blacks.

[Anonymous No.23522308]

>>23522292
He is more responsible for the current state of things than earlier liberals

[Anonymous No.23522359]

>>23522240
And the first world is also getting poorer

[Anonymous No.23522374]

>>23522303
It sounds like they feel more immediately threatened by Asian immigrants and seek to use blacks as a talisman to ward off accusations of racism. This doesn't mean they actually want more blacks in the country, it just means they find them useful for the time being because they can't get away with being unilaterally nativist due to strong taboos. If all the Asians magically disappeared tomorrow they would change their tune about black immigrants. Now of course blacks are useful for this purpose because the West's ruling class does indeed have a soft spot for them, but normal people are just trying to navigate the strange taboos set by this ruling class, they aren't necessarily true believers.

[Anonymous No.23522691]

>>23522287
No matter which side wins liberalism is basically over, we either get a globohomo enforced anarcho-tyranny or something completely different but liberal democracy is not coming back.

[Anonymous No.23522743]

>>23522691
All of that IS liberal democracy, that’s why all of you who talk about this topic are idiots who shouldn’t open your mouths

[Anonymous No.23522776]

>>23522743
>actually a technocratic dystopia that is supposed to be a part of liberalism!
Yeah I'm sure that's what founding fathers wanted you fucking retard

[Anonymous No.23522781]

>>23522743
So it's supposed to be neither liberal or democratic, nice mental gymnastics, you play word games just like average leftist does.

[Anonymous No.23522795]

>>23522743
See
>>23518549

[Anonymous No.23522819]

>>23518549
true in practice but the name sticks because it's the mental block or mythos or however you wanna call it that still provides the framework, as shizophrenic and delusional as it might be, for how the world is interpreted and most importantly justified by the true believers in the plebshit mass and especially in the apparatchik/managerial class i.e we're getting "freer", progressing towards a "freer" state, fighting for "rights", etc...., liberal democracy being the "best system even if imperfect", etc...., there's no telling how far the schizophrenia will go before there's a snap

[Anonymous No.23522832]

>>23522819
Liberalism is literally nothing but mythos. It’s an ideology, it’s a limitation, it tells people what they should and should not do using moral parameters mediated by the technological state. Using the whole “not true liberalism” argument is how liberalism persists for as long as it does. All political debate is just different sides talking about what constitutes true freedom or what truly threatens liberalism. Is it Trump, is it wokeism, is it China, is it Muslims, is it Marxism? Do any of these people actually question liberalism itself? No

[Anonymous No.23522836]

>>23522832
At what point does it stop being liberalism? The current ruling class does not even pretend to hold the illusion anymore

[Anonymous No.23522850]

>>23522836
Yes they do, how don’t they? We still have elections, we still get fed propaganda nonstop about freedom and human rights and how Muslims and Marxists are threatening to take over the world, etc etc. Progressivism itself is a defense mechanism for liberalism to balance a globalized cosmopolitan environment by trying to confer a sense of individuality to other identity groups. It’s all the same propaganda and marketing machine because that’s all liberal democracy is

[Anonymous No.23522862]

>>23522850
>We still have elections
Which are largely compromised and any time people start voting for parties that are not approved they start crying how democracy is failing, young people are especially disillusioned and becoming more radical.

[Anonymous No.23522878]

>>23522850
You have the whole great reset and 2030 agenda and ellites openly admitting they want to turn people into cattle.

[Anonymous No.23522890]

>>23522878
What do you think the purpose of liberalism day 1 was, genius

[Anonymous No.23522950]

>>23522890
Liberalism was supposed to be an alternative to monarchism, where has it been said that its purpose was to enslave humanity?

[Anonymous No.23523439]

It's really amusing how hard liberals deflect when you criticize their system
Is there a worse type of posters?

[Anonymous No.23524651]

>>23523439
They are just coping with the fact the system is failing but hasn't collapsed yet

[Anonymous No.23524921]

>>23513219
The problem with Christianity is that it autistically focuses on stupid bullshit. Is the Bible literally word for word truth? What is the historical evidence Jesus was resurrected? What the fuck is the "trinity"? Is the eucharist literally Jesus's body?

Instead it is better to focus on things like logos, agape, etc. A kind of cultural framework, and a roadmap for human behavior and psychology. Like thinking about the cardinal sins, how they manifest in one's life. That is much better

[Anonymous No.23525829]

>>23512410
What? He is a run of the mill liberal, that leans somewhat, towards social democracy, in a few instances...

[Anonymous No.23526517]

>>23523439
Any time you criticize their system they will just say that's how it's supposed to be
I can't think of anyone more cucked than neopibs