/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23468481]

...Joyce bros...

[Anonymous No.23468492]

What schools teach Joyce?

[Anonymous No.23468495]

>>23468481
damn that nigga be spittin fax tho fr fr

[Anonymous No.23468504]

so what?
so what if the demonic horror fictionalist is better known than the surreal pervert?
neither got out alive, neither, for all their prose and beauty survived, unless you think the dull re-representation of the once-a-gleam self through the banal ineruditic slave class is survival, is immortality. in what voyeuristic manner must these shades survive that they cling to this ordurous realm? and you, you come here with your complaint that the appreciation is not up to your inner snuff, the public nostril tapered askew. Inescate somewhere else, you apotheosis of vapidity.

[Anonymous No.23468520]

>>23468504
meds.

[Anonymous No.23468528]

>>23468481
What's the most efficient way to say "I am too stupid/lazy to read Joyce and I only want to read slop."?

[Anonymous No.23468530]

>>23468520
>MOM, I said it again!

[Anonymous No.23468567]

>>23468528
Lovecraft isn't slop. He is regularly taught now in university course on American literature. He has been published by Penguin Classics, Oxford Classics, and Library of America. His influence has transcended genre fiction as he's been a influence on the most acclaimed literary writers of the century such as Pynchon, Houellebecq, and Borges among many others. By any measurement, he is a significant literary presence.
This influence was achieved, mind you, with everything going against him. He was ignored during his life, wrote horror/scifi pulps, and was a racist reactionaries. All of these should've killed his literary legacy. Yet he still achieved his current reputation. If anything, his legacy is underrated.

[Anonymous No.23468597]

>>23468481
>Joyce would be forgotten if more people forgot him
ok

>>23468492
We read Araby in my high school and parts of Dubliners and Ulysses in one of my college classes on Irish literature

[Anonymous No.23468682]

>>23468597
The point is that Joyce continues to be remembered because people are forced to read him. Its not organic word of mouth. The people who like him are given control over everyone else and force him on you. Lovecraft, in contrast, grows from organic recommendations. People are naturally recommended him.
Someone wrote an article on this phenomena. They called it "The Shadow Canon". Its a series of books and authors who've remained in culturally relevant for 50-100 years despite not being assigned by the school/university system.
I wouldn't agree that everything is this shadow canon is better then the books that are assigned in school, but its a interesting phenomena.

[Anonymous No.23468707]

>>23468682
Link to the article?

[Anonymous No.23468740]

>>23468567
>lovecraft isn't slop
stopped reading here. you're clueless

[Anonymous No.23468742]

>>23468481
Both Joyce and Lovecraft are shit

[Anonymous No.23468787]

>>23468682
>The people who like him are given control over everyone else and force him on you.
Why do you think these people like his writing and continue to assign his works in their classes? They're not assigning Joyce out of some slavish desire to uphold the literary canon but because they enjoy his work, feel it is important to the history and development of the medium, and want to share it with students. The idea that people have been Stockholm-syndromed into enjoying James Joyce en masse just because they were forced to read him for school is nonsense. Joyce's enduring presence in classrooms is a product of his organic popularity, not the cause of it.

[Anonymous No.23468819]

>>23468740
Cope.

[Anonymous No.23468820]

>>23468787
>Why do you think these people continue to assign his works in their classes
they are miserable and they want to inflict misery on others

[Anonymous No.23468831]

>>23468787
>Joyce's enduring presence in classrooms is a product of his organic popularity
picked up lovecraft on my own
never touched joyce out of class
his fart letters are more popular than his actual work

[Anonymous No.23468838]

>>23468597
Propose to your professor to include Joyce's letters to Nora Barnacle in the curriculum. You know, to have a complete understanding of the author and his vision.

[Anonymous No.23468841]

>>23468481
sounds like this was written by someone who was filtered by him

[Anonymous No.23468842]

Feels good to just like both, man

[Anonymous No.23468850]

>>23468787

I'm not saying Joyce isn't genuinely liked by professionals or that he isn't good. What happens is that readers who do not like Joyce are weeded out of literary programs by instructors who like him. Only those who like Joyce remain. This is how a author maintains their reputation.

[Anonymous No.23468917]

>>23468838
those letters were torn out of the Necronomicon.

[Anonymous No.23468992]

nobody here has read a single sentence by joyce

[Anonymous No.23468993]

>>23468504
Nah, having a legacy is what survival is. Nothing is forever but nothing.

[Anonymous No.23468997]

>>23468993
a legacy is what they sold you to sacrifice yourself for in service to people you wouldn't lift a hand to save from being crushed by a falling piano.

[Anonymous No.23469000]

>at least muh legacy shall live on

[Anonymous No.23469014]

>>23468492
Nearing 20 years ago, now, but I was assigned Portrait of an Artist in my 10th grade, public school, English class and then Ulysses in 12th grade English Lit at a private boarding school.

[Anonymous No.23469029]

>>23468992
true, let's remedy that
>My sweet little whorish Nora I did as you told me, you dirty little girl, and pulled myself off twice when I read your letter. I am delighted to see that you do like being fucked arseways. Yes, now I can remember that night when I fucked you for so long backwards. It was the dirtiest fucking I ever gave you, darling. My prick was stuck in you for hours, fucking in and out under your upturned rump. I felt your fat sweaty buttocks under my belly and saw your flushed face and mad eyes. At every fuck I gave you your shameless tongue came bursting out through your lips and if a gave you a bigger stronger fuck than usual, fat dirty farts came spluttering out of your backside. You had an arse full of farts that night, darling, and I fucked them out of you, big fat fellows, long windy ones, quick little merry cracks and a lot of tiny little naughty farties ending in a long gush from your hole. It is wonderful to fuck a farting woman when every fuck drives one out of her. I think I would know Nora’s fart anywhere. I think I could pick hers out in a roomful of farting women. It is a rather girlish noise not like the wet windy fart which I imagine fat wives have. It is sudden and dry and dirty like what a bold girl would let off in fun in a school dormitory at night. I hope Nora will let off no end of her farts in my face so that I may know their smell also.

[Anonymous No.23469033]

>>23468567
Its slop adjacent. Definitely not high art. I've seen too many funko pop owners who've read Lovecraft. Funko pop owners don't engage with high art.

[Anonymous No.23469035]

>>23469033
I like the Invasion of the Body Snatchers one where he explores the dead city and I wish there were a videogame version, but made not in current year.

[Anonymous No.23469037]

>>23469033
Do funko pop owners engage with farts in their faces?

[Anonymous No.23469036]

i was never assigned joyce at school. i started reading him because i was interested in literature

[Anonymous No.23469039]

>>23468787
Stop arguing with that Funko pop owner

[Anonymous No.23469047]

>James Joyce would be forgotten if English teachers didn't keep inflicting him on people.
What's this nigger talking about? His masterpiece has never once been inflicted.

[Anonymous No.23469054]

>>23469033
>I've seen too many funko pop owners
Your a pseudo who doesn't engage with art on its own merits. You look at at what "smart" or "sophisticated" people like and copy their taste. Your like a child repeating back adult conversations to the other kids to sound smart. You know the words but not the substance. Don't post here again.

[Anonymous No.23469059]

>>23469054
>ESL faggot telling anyone what to do

[I ignore women No.23469060]

>>23468742
keyed

[Anonymous No.23469062]

>>23469054
Frankly, I find your dismissal shallow and pedantic and I shan't be taking it under advisement.

[Anonymous No.23469073]

>>23468481
thank you teachers then i guess. i have never read something as relatable as Counterparts and i think that many people today would probably feel the same way

[Anonymous No.23469075]

>>23468481
Only became interested in literature after I didn’t have to analyse it at school. Got into Joyce naturally. Weird how you like things when you don’t listen to retards.

[Anonymous No.23469079]

>>23469054
Anon is mad that we discovered that he is an avid funko pop collector.

[Anonymous No.23469081]

>>23468481
James Joyce's claim to fame is writing the greatest autismfest in 20th century literature that only master autists and academics have read.

[Anonymous No.23469094]

>>23469033
>Funko pop owners don't engage with high art.
.....Shakespeare bros.....

[Anonymous No.23469098]

>>23469094
those are for dicaprio fans not britfags

[Anonymous No.23469100]

Joyce's prose is simply the best. I don't know how it's so difficult for people to figure this out. I guess folks are color blind or tone deaf and can't recognize aesthetic genius when they read it.
It's not pretension, or hyperbole, or anything except the fact that his writing is unparalleled, and is unlikely to be beaten since the circumstances and culture which surrounded his birth have completely vanished from the world.

[Anonymous No.23469112]

>>23469094
The people who bought that haven't read Shakespeare outside of school. They talk with gay accents and watched LGBTQ members act a play on a stage.

[Anonymous No.23469121]

>>23469094
>Sees top left of the box
>"Funko Pop movies!"
Good thing your image counters your own argument.

[Anonymous No.23469129]

>>23469100
I've only read Dubliners but I just don't see it. Joyces writing no where near as evocative or powerful as Dickens or Melville. Not even close.

[Anonymous No.23469134]

>>23469129
>I just don't see it.
That’s because you’ve only read Dubliners.

[Anonymous No.23469135]

>>23469121
>Lovecraft is put in the same category as Dr Suess and FNAF novels
https://funko.fandom.com/wiki/Pop!_Books

[Anonymous No.23469137]

>>23468481
I read and love both ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Anonymous No.23469138]

>>23469100
Mogged by Dickens

[Anonymous No.23469145]

>>23469098
>>23469112
>>23469121

holly cope.

[Anonymous No.23469151]

>>23469129
Gonna be nice because being rude might deter you from one of the greatest experiences a reader might undergo, but Dubliners is incredibly subdued compared to Ulysses. Melville was a genius, to be sure, a dense prose carved from stone. Mentioning Dickens makes me doubt your tastes, but I am fairly confident you haven't read much at all if he is held in your high esteem. Anyhow, I have to urge you to read some more of his work before you go dismissing him. Dubliners, again, is incredibly subdued. Many rightfully compare it to the subtlety of Chekhov's work.

[Anonymous No.23469171]

>>23469151
>Mentioning Dickens makes me doubt your tastes, but I am fairly confident you haven't read much at all if he is held in your high esteem

Thanks for letting me know your a pseudo. Dickens is second in the English language only to Shakespeare. No one since him has had a more profound impact on English literature and speech. He is only disliked by pseudo who believe he is not complex or edgy enough to be cool. Thank you letting me know that Joyce fans have no aesthetic taste. Will not be reading.

[Anonymous No.23469186]

>>23469171
I'm sorry that you've made such a mistake in judgement.
Just like your religious sentiment as shared some months ago, you lack the great sum of energy requisite to escape your own hubris.

[Anonymous No.23469190]

>>23469171
You are embarrassingly unwell-read and lack the intuition required for literature. kys.

[Anonymous No.23469192]

>>23469171
>what being ESL does to a nigga

[Anonymous No.23469206]

>>23469190
why reply to your own comment like that?

[Anonymous No.23469226]

>>23468682
>Book I dont like is popular
>"Nobody normal likes this book. The Literati cabal is forcing (book) onto people"
>Book I like is popular
>"The merits of (book) are naturally appealing to people, passing it on by word of mouth"

[Anonymous No.23469246]

Lovecraft = Five Nights at Freddy's

Joyce = OmegaRL

[Anonymous No.23469294]

>>23468682
>The point is that Joyce continues to be remembered because people are forced to read him. Its not organic word of mouth. The people who like him are given control over everyone else and force him on you. Lovecraft, in contrast, grows from organic recommendations. People are naturally recommended him.
and that's precisely why joyce is superior to ledditcraft

[Anonymous No.23469352]

>>23469226
No where did I say I dislike Joyce. Is a observation on how workers are differently transmitted through the generations.

[Anonymous No.23469417]

>>23469186
>>23469190
>>23469192

Notice how there is no argument here as to how or why Joyce is superior. Just a unsubstantiated assertion with no backing. Joyce traced the evolution of the English language in Ulysses. Dickens changed the the language. That's the level of difference were talking about. Joyce never described Dublin with the artistic power that Dickens described London with in Bleak House or Little Dorrit. This gap came from Joyces dedication to realism. Unlike the midwits here, Joyce recognized Dickens as a immense talent(recognizing him second only to Shakespeare in terms of his influence on the spoken language). His issue with his writing was his sentimentality and a lack of realism. But these were actually Dickens strength. Dickens was a imaginative, not to be nailed down to this world. His London is a hallucinatory world, a world out of a fairy tale. The characters are also out of a fairy tale. Dickens saw life and his city infused with sinister and wonderful magic. His prose forces the reader to see the world this way to. Joyces writing is to ironical and intentional. He plays language games with the different associations he makes, but its all ultimately a product of the brain and not the heart. His Dublin is simply the Dublin as it was in his time. Where's Dickens London is the London that existed in his imagination, and that imagination is so powerful that it supplanted the real thing.

[Anonymous No.23469423]

>>23469100
the compound shit gets a bit gimmicky to be desu

[Anonymous No.23469430]

>>23469417
this has been an enlightening post, thank you for your pidgin perspective.

[Anonymous No.23469479]

>>23469417
>Joyce never described Dublin with artistic power
this is easily one of the most ignorant posts ever made on this website, a true feat. why in the world would anyone bother to go about proving to you -anything- when you speak with such confidence from such unrivaled ignorance?
Oink away all you like, but no pearls for you.

[Anonymous No.23469618]

>>23469417
>t. has never read Finnegans Wake

[Anonymous No.23469668]

>>23469479
>Joyce never described Dublin with the artistic power that Dickens described London with
>Joyce never described Dublin with artistic power

According to the Joyce reader, these two sentences are the same. Clearly reading Joyce doesn't increase ones reading comprehension.
The key differences in the sentence is the word THE. If i were to say that "The chicken is cooked without the flavor of the spicy chicken" I am not saying that the regular chicken has no flavor at all. My original statement was a relative comparison between the two. Not a statement on the absolute quality of Joyce.

>23469430
>23469479
>23469618

Notice the total inability to respond to the argument. When you love a writer like Melville or Dickens you can express what makes this writer great and why everyone should read them. The Joyce readers here are incapable of this. They know that Joyce is the big hard book all the smart people like and so they trumpet it as the best. When questioned or challenged they can only scoff, insult, and cope. A natural response would be to post excerpts of Joyces description Dublin. This is what the admire of Dickens would do if he believed someone said "Dickens London descriptions have no artistic merit". These Joyce readers do not have a love of literature. They have a love of being perceived as smart. Joyce bestows that. Melville somewhat bestows that. Dickens doesn't. That's all that matters to them. The very definition of pseudo.

[Anonymous No.23469674]

>>23469668
chill out, jeet. no one cares enough to spoonfeed you.

[Anonymous No.23469676]

>>23468481
THIS IS ABSOLUTE FUCKING TRUTH.

>>23468492
English Lit in colleges. Like all of them. They don't even teach the canon anymore.

[Anonymous No.23469687]

it's almost like english literature and james joyce are inextricably linked or something.

[Anonymous No.23469693]

>>23469687
POSTMODERNIST literature and James Joyce are inextricably linked.

I'd argue those aren't even partially the same thing, regardless of the language it's written in.

[Anonymous No.23469698]

>>23469693
he wasn't a postmodernist.

[Anonymous No.23469711]

>>23469674
U lost to an ESL, cope

[Anonymous No.23469719]

I just cant be bothered with joyce

I believe there is a direct quote from the man himself which solidified my position, where he says straight up that he writes intentionally convoluted works because he knew academics would circle jerk over it forever. im interested in literature, I dont have time for gimmicky meme shit

[Anonymous No.23469723]

>>23469711
>haha what an looser

[Anonymous No.23469746]

>>23469719
This. Its not that there isn't anything thing beautiful or worthwhile in Joyce(there is).It's that his works are written the way they are to gather praise from a very niche circle. Not because he thought this method was the best way to communicate what he wanted to say. If someone told Melville that "all the whale facts are boring and harm the book" he would be confused and possibly sad. He wrote the facts because he thought they were interesting and were the best way to communicate something to the reader. If someone told Joyce, "I tried to read Finnegans Wake and I can't make head or tail of it" he would chuckle and go "good". There's to much game playing with him.

[Anonymous No.23469764]

>>23469100
yep, nothing compares to the Ithaca chapter of Ulysses

[Anonymous No.23469768]

>>23469719
Remember that during the writing of finnegans wake, this guy wrote two short stories about cats for his grandson and those stories are as normal as your usual short stories made for children.
It was clear that he wants to puzzle the critics and trolling people who theorize that his writings in FW are 'like that' because he got poor eyesight and other illness.

[Anonymous No.23469781]

>>23469764
that's the catechistic one where he vaguely refers to alien life, right? excellent to be sure but i'm partial to Proteus and Nausicaa. It's hard to choose. Proteus still hits me, and I can still hear the crunch of the seashells under Stephen's foot in my head, trying my best to imagine a world without sight, hollering through the bellybutton, the nun with her suitcase, and don't get me started on that ashplant. Nausicaa is great because the clubfoot moment really illustrates post-nut clarity to the nth.

[Anonymous No.23469785]

>>23469768
>trolling people who theorize that his writings in FW are 'like that' because he got poor eyesight and other illness.

Wait. Was that really the reason that was given to explain FW style? kek.

[Anonymous No.23469787]

>>23468740
>it doesnt make me look like le intellectual so it's bad
kys

[Anonymous No.23469810]

intellectualism for its own sake is odious, but to appreciate things beyond the safe boundaries of genre fiction is not sinply pretension. to wave ulysses like a cudgel to batter in the brains of the simpleton is unfair, however, it is frustrating to watch pigs trample an orchid.
it takes investment to understand and enjoy a book like Ulysses. it's a book that unfolds, that rewards with greater and greater pleasure the more one spends time with it, and one which is difficult to describe to a person who wants their pleasure cheap and easy.
Lovecraft is cheap and easy, approachable by all, a state fair corndog. Joyce is for a more refined palate, bottarga.
the real tragedy is the fox who figures the grapes are sour anyway, when just a bit more effort might yield heretofore unseen delights.

[Anonymous No.23469813]

>>23469785
Yes, apparently there's a lot of reviews from people who theorizes that his glaucoma, poor eyesight, and other illness caused his finnegans wake to be 'like that'. Some people combined schizoidness and take that point in literal sense because of his daughter history and jung observation.
There's another theory where joyce have syphillis, that leads to bunch of his illness later in his life. I've read that stuff long ago and I dont see any relevancy to his works, except that guy who wrote that said that joyce referencing his illness several times in his books.

[Anonymous No.23469822]

https://youtu.be/KVBQIY-luVM?si=1D_S49OAXDvWYTIr

[Anonymous No.23470003]

>>23468682
The overwhelming majority of people who talk about Lovecraft and his influence on horror have never read anything by him.

[Anonymous No.23470028]

>>23469781
yes.

>Her antiquity in preceding and surviving successive tellurian generations: her nocturnal predominance: her satellitic dependence: her luminary reflection: her constancy under all her phases, rising and setting by her appointed times, waxing 494and waning: the forced invariability of her aspect: her indeterminate response to inaffirmative interrogation: her potency over effluent and refluent waters: her power to enamour, to mortify, to invest with beauty, to render insane, to incite to and aid delinquency: the tranquil inscrutability of her visage: the terribility of her isolated dominant implacable resplendent propinquity: her omens of tempest and of calm: the stimulation of her light, her motion and her presence: the admonition of her craters, her arid seas, her silence: her splendour, when visible: her attraction, when invisible.

[Anonymous No.23470066]

>>23470028
what'd you think of the parallax theme? the sensation that one can come to the work in different phases and see a completely different work, and its reflective capacity for identifying the self in transition?

for me it manages to escape the mundanity of repetition and not only provides a fresh set of entertainment, but also somehow *is* a new work. kaleidoscope, fractal, quasicrystal, those concepts spring to mind, but he managed to do it by method of obscurity, but not whilst leaning on ambiguity; that is, he renders a solid piece, something objectively stable, but which reveals the transitional wobble of my own otherwise hidden ambiguities in response to it.

do you have anything remotely similar to that experience?

[Anonymous No.23470101]

>>23469687
>lowercase
>it's almost like
Hmm

[Anonymous No.23470113]

>>23470101
don't try too hard ramesh, you might hurt yourself

[Anonymous No.23470120]

>>23470113
Try pressing the shift key.

[Anonymous No.23470124]

>>23470120
make me

[Anonymous No.23470159]

>>23468481
Only based Joyce can still get a lively thread like this on /lit/ going these days