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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

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2346818 No.2346818 [Reply] [Original]

You aren't a man until you are totally financially independent.

Are you a man?

>> No.2346829

Nope. I'm living on the dole.
Have fun buying my beer for me.

>> No.2346840

I'm living off my stipend so I guess so

>> No.2346841

real men post about book

>> No.2346853

I married into money. So now I have pots of it, but I never earned any of it. Am I a man yet?

>> No.2346867

not until september at least . thats when i no longer need my parents to pay tuition. itll probably be longer. independence is over rated anyway. its better to have a support network. you'll live longer.

>> No.2346875

>You aren't a man until you are totally financially independent.
>you are totally financially independent.
>totally financially independent.
>financially independent.
>in this modern times

>hahaohwow.exe.avi.jpg

>> No.2346883

Saged for not literature.

>> No.2346892

who cares about being a man.

being a man means taking responsibility, to behave according to the values ascribed to his social role, to not cheat on their wife (with her knowing) and to pay for the abortion (at least split it half way). A real man doesn't back down and he endures hardships with dignity (meaning only having a couple of drinks before getting into the car to drive home to his children).

Being a man fucking sucks.

>> No.2347645
File: 164 KB, 350x524, don-draper-hedcut-20100727-084435.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2347645

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2008/07/don_drapers_mad_men_bookshelf.html

relevant to thread.

>> No.2347648

I am indeed a man, by the accepted definition of the English word man.
I am not a man by OP's definition of the word man.

>> No.2347649

To me is about being free. I am not free.

>> No.2347654

>>2347649
I give you 5 dolla

>> No.2347656
File: 148 KB, 864x922, 1327212869914.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2347656

These days it takes a lot longer to become a man.

>that feel when you don't live in the 50s where you could graduate high school, get a job, and be able to buy an okay tier house within a few years complete with wife and kids

>> No.2347658

>>2346818
I get straight As, so my parents pay my tuition.
The government pays for my housing.
So no.
sage for not /lit/ /soc/shit

>> No.2347666
File: 10 KB, 328x376, 1326143272885.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2347666

I'm 22 and no I'm not a man.

I need to get a job as soon as possible, but I'm dragging on a storm of white rich people's problems here.

I need to do like Siddharta (or Bruce Wayne) and work with the people for some time. I'm postponing it because I'm a huge faggot with petty problems and excuses.

>> No.2347670

>>2347658
>I get straight As, so my parents pay my tuition.
That doesn't follow. You mean:
>My parents are rich, so my parents pay my tuition.

>> No.2347689
File: 19 KB, 220x312, lao.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2347689

>>2346818
'Total' financial independent doesn't mean a lot these days, they could take everything from you in the blink of an eye. You're probably just a generic wage slave like most of the people.

Unless you have the right definition of total financial independence, which means being so filthy rich that you can do whatever the hell you want without working. But this is generally more for the pleasantly decadent than the 'real men'.

'Real man' is the label a pack animal uses for himself. Slaving away at the job, financially supporting wife and children, doing all his 'duties'. He's like a donkey who looks at the lounging lion with ressentiment and bellows: "Look at the load I can carry! You can't carry such a load, surely! That's why you just lie around with your smug face!"

Meanwhile the lion just smiles the faintest of smiles, squints his eyes and rolls over to enjoy the sunlight.

>> No.2347697

>"Totally financially independent"

You mean when you stop taking money from your parents and start taking out loans.

>> No.2347698

>>2347658

I get straight A's, so I'm on scholarship.

My parents are rich, so they pay my tuition.


Pick 1.

>> No.2347700

>>2347689
shit dude...fuck....

>> No.2347701
File: 1.92 MB, 320x240, 1324564033305.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2347701

I was independent by the time I was 17 and paid my own way through college working part-time jobs.

I have recently fallen on some hard times though and have to rely on my dad for grocery money. I am not a man.

>> No.2347695

I am financially dependent upon my employer. My employer is financially dependent upon me.

>> No.2347711

>>2347689
>anthropomorphic donkeys & lions
confirmed for furry

>> No.2347725

>>2347698
>>2347670
Cut it however you want.
If I don't get straight As, I pay my tuition with money I get from the government.
Haven't heard anything from the school on scholarships.
We're technically not in the "upper class" bracket.

>> No.2347726

>>2347711
>Employs the word furry and knows its connotations.
>Not a furry himself.

>> No.2347727

>>2347689
First of all, fuck you and your blond beast. Second your analogy is inapt. The lion rests so that it might strike ferociously and decidedly, taking its prey with a single concerted effort. The man of leisure that is looked upon with disdain is the one, who is served his prey on a silver platter, he is not a predator but parasite, having loaded himself with lucre he no longer need make the slightest of efforts. Rather the lion is a lean creature, he carries little fat, but takes from the bloated beasts that chew their cud when ever the want takes him.

>> No.2347800
File: 29 KB, 304x396, reynard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2347800

>>2347727
Well, the lion usually lets the pride hunt for him and lies around on his ass all day. He has made such a life for himself that he will be catered to by others.

Of course, many people will call this parasitic behavior. Just as many people would consider forms of aristocracy parasitic. But they forget that in order for someone to be parasitic (as all higher being are, since one doesn't become great by busying himself with banalities such as food and money — in the same way the great minds used to come from the monasteries, not the farms) someone else must let themselves be exploited. The parasite isn't the fool here, the worker is. And the parasite is looked upon with disdain out of envy. He gets the chance to perfect himself, to make his life a work of art. The worker never gets to this, as he is too tired after his daily struggle. You can have the honor of the heavy burden as far as I'm concerned, I'll take the joy of leisure.

Carry on, proud donkey. Arbeit macht frei.

>> No.2348048
File: 14 KB, 300x301, 1310479792399.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2348048

>>2347800
Beautiful.

>> No.2348070

>>2347689
>>2347800

I love you, bro.

>> No.2348078

>>2347800
I'm tearing up here

>> No.2348088

>>2347800
I guess this passes for "poignant" in the average teenage mind.

>> No.2348091

>>2348088
More "profound" than "poignant", but yeah.

>> No.2348098

>>2348091
There is nothing profound, but the melodrama could be construed as poignant.

>> No.2348125

>>2347689
>>2347800

^^^^^ This. Read and learn wage slaves.

>> No.2348127

>>2348098
I suppose.
Feels weird to be so close to their age and think so totally differently.

>> No.2348142

>>2347800
>>2347689

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to agree with >>2347727 , even though I enjoy that metaphoric comparisson, I think it's partly flawed by some assumptions about things that are very important for it to work out.

>The parasite isn't the fool here, the worker is.
I get your point, but after you said that, your argument about the parasite doesn't work anymore, unless you are talking about the workers ("with a chance to perfect themselves").

>He gets the chance to perfect himself, to make his life a work of art.
The parasite perfecting himself? Than he is not a parasite. The parasite only takes but does not give, it sucks blood or money or anything you wish, but it doesn't build or create anything, it does not test itself, it does not care about other people's problems rather than its own. The word parasite has a very shitty and heavy conotation.

About the lion, it also does not fit here. As the other guy said, there is a reason for the lion to rest, he is not a parasite, of course not. The donkey laughs at the lion because the donkey does not understand the work of a lion or the rest that it needs to go on and at the same time, the lion smiles and doesn't give a fuck because he does not have to prove anything to the donkey.

>> No.2348147

>>2348127
you're such a fag
instead of coming up with a counterargument you imply you're more "mature" and "sophisticated"
i'm 25, getting a PhD with a full free ride, making $65/hr on the side and i wrote this
>>2348078
eat shit

>> No.2348146

>>2348142 cont.


Both of them work, except one is condescending and the other knows how important is to enjoy the moment of rest, seeing the lion knows how to value his own work.

The lion values his work and that's what why he is able to choose not to go after the donkey or go mad, whereas the dependent man living in his mother's basement... doesn't work at all. The lion works for himself, the donkey carries things for others, the lazy man doesn't work at all.

Being on the computer all day, resting, reading things online might make you learn something here and there, but it's not productive. And by productive I don't mean for the system or for money or for any shallow thing like that, but for ourselves, for creativity and for life.

>Carry on, proud donkey.
Now this is ironic. This is very condescending of you.

All and all, it's easy to agree with things that excuse our life style.

>> No.2348149

>>2348147
>you're such a fag
>i'm 25, getting a PhD with a full free ride, making $65/hr on the side and i wrote this
Yeah, alright internet tough guy.

>> No.2348152

Another dozen years or less on mortgage, but other than that, I have my full time job and also pay for graduate school tuition with it. Fuck student loans, I'll never have them.

>> No.2348153

>>2348146
all in all you worthless turd

>> No.2348163

>>2348149
hahaha
that you don't believe me must mean my life is even better than i think
thanks for the self-esteem boost, i was hungover all day yesterday and felt pretty worthless

>> No.2348167

>>2348147
Only a whore would brag about her price-structures.

>> No.2348168

>>2348127
The weird thing is it looks like they've skimmed the wikipedia page on Marx or Nietzsche, and then overlooked something as basic as the master slave dialectic.

>> No.2348177

>>2348168
Hmm, don't know
>the master slave dialectic
but I know that this is how some neckbeard 17yos think of themselves before they have to get real jobs.

>> No.2348181

>>2348167
normally i'd agree, but the man i was arguing against seemed likely to respond to evidence of "earning my keep". know your audience, nigger.

>> No.2348197

I make 700+ a week, but still live at home.

Don't give a fuck

>> No.2348226

Independent from what?

>> No.2348244

>>2348197
>but still live at home.
Where else would you live?

>> No.2348272

>writers and english majors
>financially independant

>> No.2348335
File: 44 KB, 397x599, The_Peaceful_Pill_Handbook.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2348335

>Are you a man?

No, but at least I have enough for a tank of nitrogen.

>> No.2348339
File: 626 KB, 555x3380, All I learnt about inertia.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2348339

I HAD to translate this. Read this shit.

>> No.2348346

Well I pay for all the expenses or my life. But I still live with my parents.

>> No.2348352

I depend on the people who pay me money, or else I wouldn't have any at all.

>> No.2348355

I support my husband and child. Does that make me three men?

>> No.2348359

A wage slave can never be financially independent.

>> No.2348368

>>2348339
awshitnigga5starpost.tiff

>> No.2348375

>>2348339
>wanker pope
>lazy faggotry syndrome
>David Byrne
>dat art style

Oh Gawd, it's too good...

>> No.2348372

>>2348355
There's a thread in /d/ that's about that.

>> No.2348382

>>2348375
>>2348368
such samefaggotry, fuck off
comic is boring as fuck

>> No.2348390

>>2348382
Nope.
But of course, you're not going to believe me.

>> No.2348410

>>2348375
In the original it's "wanker priest".

>sharehold
I'm just catching mistakes, but I'm too tired to fix those.

The thing is: the original is even better.

>> No.2348415

>>2348410
Wanker pope is infinitely better.

>> No.2348444

No, I guess I'm not.

>> No.2348489

>>2348244
700 a week is more than enough to own a home, where do you live?

>> No.2348491

>>2348339
Shit. It was so worth posting this thread for this comic.

>> No.2348506

>financially independent
>not depending on labor or an unaffiliated corporation for money
>only like 1% of people on earth can actually do this
>not a man

sure is a lot of women around here. with those odds you'd think it'd be easier for neckbeards to get laid

>> No.2348575
File: 171 KB, 337x253, 1316225776592.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2348575

If you aren't owned by the stat,e you're owned by the banks. There is no freedom as the OP describes in our society. You can't print your own money, and therefore you shall never be financially independent. Even the rich depend on a the tides of the economy. Stop fooling yourselves with this pseudo-rabblerousing.

>> No.2348578

>>2348575
>You can't print your own money
fiat money and a central bank is a fucking cancer.

>> No.2348582

oh boy, here we go?

>> No.2349184
File: 37 KB, 220x384, fool.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2349184

>>2348142
>>2348146

1/2

A parasite is a non mutual relationship between two entities in which one of them profits. The Spartans, for example, were parasites. They worked on themselves but enslaved the rest of the population of their conquered land to provide them with the necessary provisions.

Beside their lack of positive input in this relationship, parasites are perfectly capable of creating and perfecting themselves to their own fancy. They dedicate themselves to high goals. Do you think Michelangelo was concerned with the people baking his bread while he was painting? Do you think Plato was concerned with the slaves working on the fields while he was thinking and eating some olives at his leisure?

All higher endeavors require the delegating of banalities. Therefore all ways of life, all culture that is superior to that of the farmer and the worker must in some way be parasitic. It must be one way traffic, because the idle philosopher can eat the farmer's bread, but the farmer can not comprehend the fruits of the philosophers thought.

In this way, the 'parasite' doesn't work in the sense of labor. He however does exert himself to his succeed in his goals. This is an important difference. Calling such endeavors 'work' is a nasty habit of recent times where everything is seen through the eyes of common laborers. An aristocrat of olden days who would write passionately every day would not dream of calling it work. That would be an insult to both himself and his art.

>> No.2349189
File: 37 KB, 300x510, sun.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2349189

2/2

Being on the computer all day may not be the same, but when I in my leisure read great philosophy, write, concern myself with my diet and health, train my body and mind into perfection, have beautiful experiences and enjoy my senses I wouldn't say I'm lazy or 'unproductive'. I am merely acting on my most natural impulse: To concern myself wholly with myself, so that I may become a great work of art.

The so called lazy man (who doesn't work), the parasite (who let's others work for him) has all of his time to himself and his whims. He doesn't need to toil, he doesn't obey nor give orders. He is the closest thing to a living God.

>> No.2349205
File: 7 KB, 227x280, Anton Chekhov.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2349205

>>2348582
>mfw this thread

>> No.2349211

Everyone is financially dependent on someone or something.

>> No.2349262

>>2349211
trading for mutual gain is not "depending"

>> No.2349280

>>2349262
I disagree

>> No.2349304

That fucking picture is the most fuck I don't even know

>> No.2349318

>>2349262
Obviously it is.

>> No.2349321

that pic is going to be me in 3 years expect being bald rather than long hair.

#FML

>> No.2349352

>>2349321
>20
>in 3 years
reported

>> No.2349574

I depend on the state of Israel for most of my living. The rest I get by milking cows. I spend most of my money on alcohol, clubbing, and hash.

>> No.2349586

>>2349574
lies, no jew would have such wasteful hobbies

>> No.2349600

>>2349586
You, my friend, have never been to Tel Aviv.

>> No.2350127

>>2349352
Snitchedy snitcherton.

>> No.2350161

But what if you have a well-paying job, live at home with your parents but paying rent, purchasing all your food and necessities on your own, reject women because of cognitive dissonance, play WoW from dusk til dawn, not shave, behave as if you're 15, masturbate to hentai and ecchi, collect action figures, have bad hygiene, and the age of 27?

>> No.2350190

>>2350161

>well-paying job
>play WoW from dusk til dawn, not shave, behave as if you're 15

Tell me your secrets.

>> No.2350275

>>2349184
>>2349189
>parasite
>lion
>donkey
>Plato
>Michelangelo
>farmer
>being on the computer all day
>working monday-firday, 9-5
>creating

You related all of these in much arbitrary ways.

Michelangelo did comissions, he worked for others too, so he is not a parasite, he was "part of the system". And Plato is exactly the one guy who hates anyone that ignores or doesn't know about the polis, the city, the community, the social(that's the definition of "idiot", it really is). You don't even know about them... Those were the worst examples possible, if you were to talk about Diogenes I would understand, but them?

>All higher endeavors require the delegating of banalities
Banalities depend on how you see them.

>all culture that is superior to that of the farmer and the worke
A culture cannot be superior to other.

>the farmer can not comprehend the fruits of the philosophers thought.
Intellectual elitism is just a horrible start...

>> No.2350278

>>2350275 cont
>Parasite
>He however does exert himself to his succeed in his goals
Again, missing the point of the word parasite. A parasite is not a predator. The parasite not only use others, they NEED others to survive, much like a teenager needs his parent's money. You take the host from the parasite and the parasite dies.

>Calling such endeavors 'work' is a nasty habit of recent times
>would not dream of calling it work
>That would be an insult to both himself and his art.
Art comes from the latin word "ars" that means technique, work, labour just as well as art as we know today. It's the process of production. The word "work" is actually much more suiting in ancient times to those practices. It was just now that we got a division between work, art, and craft in our society. That didn't exist back then at all.

>train my body and mind into perfection
Perfection is the typical alienated idealized goal of the teenager living with his parents. I was like that, I thought like that too, I grew out of it.
>so that I may become a great work of art
Wtf, man... Look at yourself.

>> No.2350281

>>2350278 cont

>the parasite
>(who let's others work for him)
Oh well...

>he doesn't obey nor give orders
It all comes down to this misconception of yours, the generalization of work as a purely hierarchic system, and not mutual, creative, uplifting, engaging or even beautiful. It's not "fun" or "orgasmic", the joy of work is particular of the work. It's how a kid can't see how the adults can enjoy discussing things on the dinner table and prefer to play with their food instead, at the same time, the adult sees no fun with playing with a toy car and prefers to just have sex instead. The "sheep", the ones working on shitty mechanical jobs are there not because they chose to be, but because there is no other way for them to acquire food and shelter, which are not luxuries, but basic goods. They have no choice. The parasite, the lazy teenager is living an illusion of liberty, because the moment the host leaves them (one way or the other), he will perish, or at least be extremely unprepared.

One cannot escape to rely on others, "no man is an island". There is no king without a kingdom, you can rely on your parents and not see them work, but they are using their sweat to support you, you may go to the wilderness and hunt and that would be relying on your own skills and the nature around you, you may beg for money, but you'll rely on other people's kindness, you may work in a 9-5 job because you know you can rely on getting paid every month and at last, for those with a choice, Michelangelo included, writers, artists, certain businessmen, they are able to make people trust them, so that everyone wins, in a productive way, not only for making shoes or filling paper work, but for ideas, art and themselves as physical and intellectual beings.

>I was trolled

>> No.2350297

>>2350275
>A culture cannot be superior to other.
>Intellectual elitism is just a horrible start

I wil disregard the rest of what you said. Good day to you, sir.